Another 4.8 not starting.FIXED!!!
 

A bit longer of a post but please bear with me..

As I see it's a pretty common occurrence with these cars, I'm not surprised it hit me too.I just need to figure out what's causing it .im planning to have my Indy take a look at it tomorrow since it started behaving like this a few hrs ago and don't have software handy to diagnose it myself. I would just like some input before taking it in tomorrow evening.


It started like this..fired it up after a 2hr church service, it started just fine but died on me while I was backing out...I'm like what was that?

started it again, all was good ...drove to a restaurant, parked there for roughly 40min and when I returned to the car, it would not start just click 3-4 times then nothing...
it started after the 5th attempt..I immediately got a CEL ...drove it home, parked it,turned it off, tried to start it again and it would not start..

Went inside and came back after 20 min: unlocked OBC Test 9:

Car off:11.9V
After a few more tries the car started : 13.8V

CEL turned off by itself.
Drove around, still getting a solid 13.8V

Turned off the car after driving around for 10 min and now I'm getting 12.5-12.6V ....so different than the first time I let it sit for 20 min and I got 11.9V..

Stopped at gas station, turned off, same story, just cranking but not starting.after the 10th attempt it started again and CEL light is on again along with TRANSMISSION FAILSAFE PROGRAM.

parked it for the night, will fire it up tmw , read the codes and go from there.im just curious what causes this..

Spark plugs changed 2000 miles ago.
I ruled the alternator out.
Checked all battery connections all good.
Battery was changed 3 months ago..
Could be the Ignition switch ?
Coil packs?
Fuel pump going out?
Any fuses to look out for?
I'm lost...

The problem would be much simpler if it would just die and stay that way but it's starting after a few tries...any input is appreciated !

Maybe I should mention a few weird things I noticed...PDC sensors don't work sometimes now , only after a restart they come back to normal.

While cranking , oil temp gauge and temp gauge go all the way up to the max .is that normal?as soon as it started they went back to normal.

I don't hear the secondary air pump/fuel pump engaging when key in position 2.

Let me know what you guys think.thanks

why can't it be that Your starter motor is going?

Not X5 but I had similar problem with another car. It turned out to be corrosion on the connectors to starter. No problem since I clean the corrosion from the connectors.

How many miles on the clock four8.is?

Sounds like a fuel pump on it way out. If it cranks but doesn't start it probably the fuel pump. Easiest way to verify this is to connect a fuel pressure gauge to the fuel rail and see what you kind of pressure you have with the just the key in the run position and if you can start it, what type of fuel pressure you have with the engine running. Don't be surprise if you have good pressure with the engine running, since the brushes for the fuel pump could be making good contact once the pump is running, but you may have a dead spot when the pump has stopped and that is why you can't restart the engine.

Had this problem when I had an E34. Sometime the pump would work, other time it would leave me stranded. Changed the pump and never had any more no start problems afterward.

^if the fuel pump ends up to be the culprit, what kills them?since I have the maintenance records since new, I searched through them and seems like PO had to change it twice , both times because he ran low on gas...do they just give up?
Gotta go read the codes..

Will check that as well thanks!

105.000 miles

A dead or dying fuel pump will not give any codes. The only code you will get from a weak fuel pump is a lean condition since the quantity of fuel being pumped will give you a lean condition. Like I posted before get a fuel pressure gauge and verify the pressure in the fuel rail.

Were the last two pumps that were replaced BMW OE or some cheap made in China Crap?

I killed mine at 110k miles ... now I fill up at 1/4 tank :(

If you wait for the light, it's already too late!

Will do a fuel rail pressure test.both pumps were OE.replaced at the dealer.

Does 11.9V sound ok to you guys?engine off.

No
normal battery voltage is always over 12. There is a chart some where to show the relationship between voltage and battery condition.

found it
attery Failures
An analysis of batteries replaced under warranty shows that many claims could have been avoided had the batteries been maintained in a full state of charge. Batteries must be maintained at all times when vehicles are at a retailer whether they are new cars, used cars, in storage (back lot), on display, or customer cars in for maintenance or repairs. Batteries replaced due to lack of maintenance will not be covered by warranty.

Most Common Causes of Premature Battery Failures
• Failure to maintain proper state of charge.
• Loss of electrolyte due to overcharging or excessive heat.
• Deep discharging (Leaving lights on or other parasitic draws).
• Undercharging of battery.
• Vibration (Loose battery hold down clamp).
• Using tap water (instead of distilled water).
• Corrosion.
• Freezing.
Attached Images

here is the link to the charts as posted
http://www.xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-foru...hat-could.html

The battery should be bad then.Ill go to interstate and have them check it and replace it .like I said it's 3 months old but that doesn't mean it's good I guess
Thanks for the chart Stephen.

A lot of the battery that you buy are just recycle. Why do you think they charge you a core fee if you don't return your old battery. I had a "new" battery die on me in less then a month after install.

True.but don't you guys think it can be a starter problem too since it just clicks and doesn't turn over the motor and when it does decide to start it just starts like nothing is wrong...
All I'm getting is click click click ...after 5th-10th attempt it starts just fine...

OP, did the battery light turned on? or just the CEL + TransFailSafe?

Did you clear codes and started again? where you able to capture the active codes if the CEL + TransFailSafe turned back on?

To make sure its not voltage related. I suggest you re-charge the battery over night.

Do a load test the next morning (attached the multi-meter or look at real time voltage data via DIS)
- start the vehicle
- turn on (all) accessories
- increase the RPM


Must be 13.70+v ~14v
Anything below < 13v, alternator is not charging (the culprit)
Check the battery after two days (if it can hold the charge), should be 12+v

Your posted voltage reading was close to what I have experienced last Jan 2014, it was a sign that my alternator bearings are about to fail slowly but surely. BUT then again it can be different from you case.

GL

I agree
:iagree:
The OP must fully Charge the battery (over night) and load test, then check the battery after two days (if it can maintain the state of charge).

Weak battery is bad for the alternator, so we need to start from a steady state which a fully charge battery. eliminate the battery and alternator as the culprit.

UPDATE: Changed the battery with the Exide spare that was in the charger.im getting the same voltage as with the other one.

Car fired up okay but died after about 2 min of idling..

On top of the CEL I got 4x4 light on as well.

I hear a whining noise towards the rear wheel well of the car...

Gotta drive it to the mechanic to read the codes but I'm afraid it'll die by itself at 60mph ...

Edit: the mechanic will get to scan it tomorrow morning the soonest...I just got it scanned with a cheap oreilly's scanner and it gives me P1720.
no other description...

Tried to erase the code and it came right back ..

Bump
P1720 129 CAN Timeout Control Module
Anyone had this problem before?

Doing a little digging on that code and it seems once people mention it the thread dies.

This thread is kind of interesting. Post #10 in particular.
Transmission Failsafe Program! help, bmw x5 4.4i 2002,

Good read! Will have to start checking every wire in sight.
Tomorrow at 9am I'm scheduled to hook it up to the real software.Will see if it gives us something to start on.Not getting irritated yet...still got some patience.

CAN timeout is generally a failure on the CAN bus network ( the network all of various systems uses to communicate ). sounds like wiring... has it ever been in a wreck?

Mysterious electrical issues, I wonder about your grounding wires, both from batt to car frame and from engine to frame. Purely a guess, not based on anything specific to X.

Gluck here

UPDATE:
Brought it to the shop, they diagnosed it and it's the ABS Module on it's way out.
Cost:620$ parts and labor with a remanufactured Bosch unit- 9 month warranty
Is it worth it?or are they asking too much?
What should I do?i need to know ASAP so I can have it fixed in about 2hrs or so

I know they can be sent out to repair but not sure on the cost.
And if I have them change it, is it worth it to fix mine as well and sell it afterwards or just scrap it?

BMW ABS Modulator (X5) - Bosch 1265916803

Brand:http://dyw03owr7vs3n.cloudfront.net/...361ad21a7d.gifBoschSKU #:1265916803Part:ABS ModulatorOE Numbers:1265916803, 1265916803, 55006002101, 34526773015, 147036FCP ID:147036$642.95

Bosch New

BMW OE is $1200

so im guessing its a good deal.

I can see the abs module setting off the 4x4 light, but how does that affect the running of the engine?

I had my ABS module reman for $200-$300 I believe. I will have to check who did it.
You can replace it yourself, just a few bolts. and a big plug. BTW, you can take it out and drive without it, just cover to protect the empty space. You will not have abs or dsc but it's summer and you should be ok.

The ABS could also be a coincidence. I don't see how that would cause stalling.

To diagnose it, unplug the module and drive without it. That should take one variable out of the equation. I drove mine for more than a month like that until I got the module fixed.

they guaranteed that is the problem since the various modules cant communicate between them. Its BMW independent in Kirkland.The owner has 35 years of experience.
Anyway, they now said 1 year/unlimited miles warranty.
I told them im not spending one penny on top of that if the problem isnt fixed.They assured me that is it and should be done by the end of the day. Will keep you updated.


http://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/...ps1f458d55.jpg

sorry the image doesnt want to rotate....

So its ABS module after all?

If its Bosch 5.7 although with a 4.8iS I think you have the Bosch 8.0, shouldn't be more than $250 for a rebuilt/repaired module.

I guess at $600 dealer price that is ok, if that includes labor thats even better.

I know new modules need to be coded to the car.

yes RB 620$ includes the reman.Bosch unit and labor.Ill be picking it up around 4pm from the shop.
Tomorrow its install time for the N6 so I need all my electronics in order :D

Bosch 8.0 (non-Audi) ABS Module | ModuleMaster

is a bosch 8.0 non repairable?
looks like 5.7 is..

Bosch 5.7 ABS Rebuild | ModuleMaster

^^^Your pricing above considering its the dealer, isn't bad. Anything to get us that Dynavin N6 review is helpful lol!

I'm sending my Bosch 5.7 in shortly for repair as well. Ask the dealer if yours is the 8.0 or not, I think it is though.

It seems like the audi had this problem but it can be rebuilt now. I am not sure about on on facelift bmw though. Does 4.8is use bosch 8.0?
CHEAP ABS Bosch 8.0 Module Repair for Audi

Ok guys, sure thing it was not the ABS module.
Same symptoms as before.They're trying to dig in a little deeper and will get on it first thing in the morning..will keep you posted.

Well on the bright side you have a new ABS module.

Ya the owner said he'll make it right by me..if he decides he will leave the module in at no cost or put mine back in it doesn't matter to me..i already paid they better find the culprit lol..he was very nice though...he apologized and took me home in his M5 and promised to take care of it first thing in the morning..we'll see what it might be; hopefully nothing really expensive.

That is great that they are promising to make it right.

The ABS module diagnosis sounded a bit off given the symptoms. Hopefully it quick and easy.

Yes it was strange especially the motor dying while backing out and not cranking but starting like nothing's wrong after a few more tries...

What seems strange to me is the oil temp gauge and coolant temp gauge go all the way up when the motor won't turn over but come back to normal the one time it's ready to start.

And by the way, I'm not hearing the click click click sound anymore.its just silent.but when it's ready to start it fires right up.

If it not cranking I would have them look at the EWS system. No clicks and not cranking means the starter solenoid is not receiving a signal from the DME to energize. Could also be a bad ignition switch.

I was also suspect about the module given that the 8.0 hasn't reported the same failure prone rate as the 5.7 module. Keep us posted...

Signs of a failing ignition switch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7gM...991D3D41D978D7

Yup, it was the ignition switch.Everything works as it should now .Thanks everyone for contributing to this thread.Im sure someone else will find it useful.

Nice! So do you have it back now?

Can you go back to the first post and edit the title to include the word "FIXED" at the end.

Did it.thx

Yup currently installing the screen
There's no instructions other than how to fit the bracket...but all the wires that aren't needed don't make much sense ...hopefully will make it work

Good to see you found the problem and got it resolved.

Awesome on your fix here! Was the work to change the ign switch a pita?