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-   -   04 4.4i X5 Cold Start Idle Questions...... (https://xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-forums/x5-e53-forum/99872-04-4-4i-x5-cold-start-idle-questions.html)

Johnny_5 02-23-2015 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quezee (Post 1028566)
I also have a 2006 X5 4.8is and when cold surges a few times almost turning off then after about 1-2 min of surging it's fine. No smoke or codes. I do notice a few oil leaks have developed and an occasional VANOS rattle. I have around 120,000 miles on her. Also I've replaced plugs, air filter, vent diaphragms and coolant crossover pipe. Didn't see any sludge in covers. Also vibrating while idling but may just be bad mounts. Replaced several brittle coolant hoses and reservoir but still slightly using coolant. Read something about cams causing problem. I've scanned her with GT1 and everything seems to be fine. Also read about Cam Position Sensors and VANOS O-rings. Not looking to chase a ghost. I have the valve cover gaskets and valve seals. watching for a used tool on ebay which I see one today. What else should I change while in the valves? Also have ordered the dreaded alternator bracket seal due to oil leaking and blowing back under vehicle. That just started about a week ago when I noticed the smell of oil burning while in a drive thru. Never once have I noticed exhaust smoke but I want to replace the valve seals and correct most, if not all leaks due to oil consumption. I've noticed the oil is always low on the stick before it's even half way due. When I say low I mean just showing on the very tip. Once I received a message regarding low oil level and I just replaced it no more than 3-4 months ago. I've been using Mobil European car formula. I'm the second owner and bought her with 80,000 miles. She runs like a scalded dog when I mash on it. I haven't a clue of what she ran like new for comparison but I know the idle is definitely rougher than new.

Yea I may have to double check on the oil consumption haven't checked that recently as its not a daily. Im like you as well I don't get any check engine lights (knock on wood) just the annoying idle at cold start.

Quezee 02-23-2015 04:13 PM

I don't remember it acting up until after I removed the intake and electric servos, (can't remember their name) to replace the coolant tube. Once I reinstalled them I had to reset them using GT1 software. That's when this problem popped up. I heard something spring loose or tight once the drive side was removed and I was afraid something went wrong. Then during re-installation I had a hard time getting the drivers side back in. Once I started it I had a code so I connected my laptop and ran the diagnostic and was told to reset servos. During the procedure I could hear the motors/servos running then the program told me successful. I have to replace the valve cover gaskets soon so they will be coming back out.

Freestyler 02-24-2015 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny_5 (Post 1028582)
So what have you done to resolve the issue or did you just leave it as is? Like you its only at initial cold startup. Not sub zero here though! Is it even worth fixing and if not what type of issues will this lead to?

Initially i replaced all vacuum-related parts, spark plugs and so on, to absolutely no avail. But after learning about the intermediate levers, here on Xoutpost, i have simply just accepted that once in a while, during the winter months, i have to stop and restart the engine on cold starts.

My reason for not fixing it is that the issue is 'static', meaning it is not getting worse over time. And in my mind, this minor annoyance from having to restart the engine does not justify the $$ and labour involved in replacing the levers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny_5 (Post 1028582)
Also got the tranny kick at cold startups which Im going to try replacing the fluids and see if that cures that issue.

How peculiar. I also have a tranny kick when cold.. :confused:
Not the whiplash inducing kind though. It's more kind of a 'bump'.
It is when i start moving, (from cold start), it will hold the first gear longer than usual, (per design), but will then 'bump' fairly hard into second gear from high rpm's.
But only this one time. From then on, the tranny perform flawlessly until next cold start where the same thing will happen again.

Quezee 02-24-2015 11:11 AM

OK, update. As I'm reading and writing about the problems I'm experiencing with my X5, the wife calls and tells me the X won't start. I grabbed the laptop and drove to her. When I started diagnosing it would crank but no start. I checked all fluids and they were fine. Then I scanned for codes. I found a code stating possible coolant temp sensor failure. Then I cycled the key to listen for fuel pump. I replaced the pump with a VDO a few months ago so I would be shocked if it failed. I activated the pump with the GT1 and tried starting it again and it started. Hmmm? Then I got a message NO OIL PRESSURE turn off engine or something like that. I turned it off and checked the oil level and also for leaks. Tried starting it again without using the GT1 to activate the fuel pump. Just turns over, no start. Activated the fuel pump again with GT1 and it started. Then I started wondering if there was some kind of failsafe disabling the fuel pump if oil pressure was not present. Tried starting it a third time and it started. This time the coolant gauge was pegged on hot. I shut it down and started it again with same results. I decided it must be a failing coolant sensor. I had also changed the water pump and thermostat in the past and the engine didn't seem to be boiling. Decided to drive it home while keeping a close eye and ear on her. While driving home the gauge went back to normal. Everything seemed normal again. When I got home I started searching the internet for info. I decided to order new coolant and oil sensors since they are reasonably priced. I also ordered another oil filter so I can check for any broken check valve parts showing up in the filter. Then I decided to get a little deeper into the GT1/TIS since I've only used it once before this. I just started performing test and resets. I think every test and reset I found was performed on it last night. Today when it started cold it ran fine. It didn't surge or vibrate. Drove better than expected if not perfect. The wife knows her truck and she agrees. Waiting for new sensors and praying it doesn't malfunction again. Thinking about changing the Cam Position Sensors and Crank Position Sensor just in case the sensors are also failing and the DME/computer is not receiving the crank signal to energize the fuel pump or causing a short. I'm thinking maybe the coolant sensor is causing interference with the other sensors causing them to malfunction. Not knowing what this system uses to sense engine rotation/cranking. When I have to repair any of our BMW's it's a learning experience. I'm amazed at how over engineered these vehicles are. To the point of being a pain in the A$$. We also own a Mercedes and I wouldn't own anything else but German.

Slow&Steady 02-25-2015 10:05 AM

So has anyone ever really tried to use the software to adjust this a little to get it to stop? I've dont a lot of looking and it seems like this is a very common problem and nobody has posted anything about using inpa or icom with ista?

Im trying to pull as much info about how this system works. If anyone has any info if they have tried to use the software to fix this let me know. Im sure just a small change would make this go away for awile. Yes I know the Levers are just going to wear more over time, but we dont drive our x5 a lot and this might get me a few more years without my wife complaining.

Johnny_5 02-25-2015 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freestyler (Post 1028662)
Initially i replaced all vacuum-related parts, spark plugs and so on, to absolutely no avail. But after learning about the intermediate levers, here on Xoutpost, i have simply just accepted that once in a while, during the winter months, i have to stop and restart the engine on cold starts.

My reason for not fixing it is that the issue is 'static', meaning it is not getting worse over time. And in my mind, this minor annoyance from having to restart the engine does not justify the $$ and labour involved in replacing the levers.



How peculiar. I also have a tranny kick when cold.. :confused:
Not the whiplash inducing kind though. It's more kind of a 'bump'.
It is when i start moving, (from cold start), it will hold the first gear longer than usual, (per design), but will then 'bump' fairly hard into second gear from high rpm's.
But only this one time. From then on, the tranny perform flawlessly until next cold start where the same thing will happen again.

Yea I had that happen to me a few times and it was pretty bad where it was like another car slammed into me bad! So Im really hoping that the flush helps!

Johnny_5 02-25-2015 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slow&Steady (Post 1028763)
So has anyone ever really tried to use the software to adjust this a little to get it to stop? I've dont a lot of looking and it seems like this is a very common problem and nobody has posted anything about using inpa or icom with ista?

Im trying to pull as much info about how this system works. If anyone has any info if they have tried to use the software to fix this let me know. Im sure just a small change would make this go away for awile. Yes I know the Levers are just going to wear more over time, but we dont drive our x5 a lot and this might get me a few more years without my wife complaining.

Yea Ive been reading up on this as well and it appears some have had luck adjusting the lift using the software version. If anyone can chime in and how to see what Im at or to adjust would be great.

Doru 02-25-2015 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quezee (Post 1028675)
OK, update. As I'm reading and writing about the problems I'm experiencing with my X5, the wife calls and tells me the X won't start. I grabbed the laptop and drove to her. When I started diagnosing it would crank but no start. I checked all fluids and they were fine. Then I scanned for codes. I found a code stating possible coolant temp sensor failure. Then I cycled the key to listen for fuel pump. I replaced the pump with a VDO a few months ago so I would be shocked if it failed. I activated the pump with the GT1 and tried starting it again and it started. Hmmm? Then I got a message NO OIL PRESSURE turn off engine or something like that. I turned it off and checked the oil level and also for leaks. Tried starting it again without using the GT1 to activate the fuel pump. Just turns over, no start. Activated the fuel pump again with GT1 and it started. Then I started wondering if there was some kind of failsafe disabling the fuel pump if oil pressure was not present. Tried starting it a third time and it started. This time the coolant gauge was pegged on hot. I shut it down and started it again with same results. I decided it must be a failing coolant sensor. I had also changed the water pump and thermostat in the past and the engine didn't seem to be boiling. Decided to drive it home while keeping a close eye and ear on her. While driving home the gauge went back to normal. Everything seemed normal again. When I got home I started searching the internet for info. I decided to order new coolant and oil sensors since they are reasonably priced. I also ordered another oil filter so I can check for any broken check valve parts showing up in the filter. Then I decided to get a little deeper into the GT1/TIS since I've only used it once before this. I just started performing test and resets. I think every test and reset I found was performed on it last night. Today when it started cold it ran fine. It didn't surge or vibrate. Drove better than expected if not perfect. The wife knows her truck and she agrees. Waiting for new sensors and praying it doesn't malfunction again. Thinking about changing the Cam Position Sensors and Crank Position Sensor just in case the sensors are also failing and the DME/computer is not receiving the crank signal to energize the fuel pump or causing a short. I'm thinking maybe the coolant sensor is causing interference with the other sensors causing them to malfunction. Not knowing what this system uses to sense engine rotation/cranking. When I have to repair any of our BMW's it's a learning experience. I'm amazed at how over engineered these vehicles are. To the point of being a pain in the A$$. We also own a Mercedes and I wouldn't own anything else but German.

You might have a couple things going on, but if the engine is cold, and when you start it shows overheating, the dual temp sensor might be bust. Check this thread, and if you have the GT1 & INPA, try to run the tests to confirm if the sensor is bad.


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