DPF Delete Pipe & ECU Reflash Source
 

Update Feb 2018: Further down the thread I describe the process. 3 years and 93,000 miles with this mod and 185,000 total miles on the X and STILL perfect with ZERO issues.

Disclaimer: For Off-Road Use Only

A source for DPF delete and ECU reflash is here: X5 35D Diesel DPF/EGR/ADBLUE delete development

Or, you can email Alex directly at: [email protected]

You'll have to sign a waiver to say this is intended for off-road use only and Alex will send you the DPF delete pipe and you'll need to send him your ECU to reflash. His shop is located in Riverside CA. He's making 2 additional DPF delete pipes with mine so he will have 2 more available very soon. Cost will be $2K.

Company website: BimmerOEM!, Your only source for Quality used OEM parts

I'll post a write-up when I accomplish this. I'll be sending Alex my ECU for reflash first and then when I get that back I'll remove the DPF and CAT myself and install the DPF delete pipe. Stay "tuned"! :)

Great news! I like the thorough testing that has been done.

I'd say, if the engine is still intact after this 500 miles, go for it :thumbup:

I want this so badly! However, I have two years under maintenance and warranty plan so I think it's best if I leave the powertrain as stock as possible until those expire. Then it's so on, though. I mean seriously, better mpg and more power...I'd be stupid NOT to do it! :)

I'd just be happy with a tune and some more turbo sound but I will keep an eye on this.

So, if one starts getting emissions issues post warranty, spending 2K on this may be cheaper and a better option to ensure the issues don't come back.

As Sheldon would say: "In what universe is sending your DDE to some random dude you met on a forum even qualifies as an option, let alone be a better one?"...

The Ten Worst Car Tuning Disasters Ever Recorded

Reminds me of that one time at Bimmerfest a few years back when one of those tuner showed up with a supercharged S65 M3. He was revving the engine when it blew up in front of the crowd...

If the exhaust issues prove to be reoccurring (knock on wood), spending 2k and be done with it may be a better option than throwing 1K every time just to see issues return. I personally would be afraid to ship my computer and ("nail-bitingly") wait for it to come back, but a vacation trip to sunny Cali combined with stopping by the shop may not be as scary.
That being said, I hope not have to do it.

Have you ever read "The Adventures of Pinocchio"?

:thumbup:

Hey, someone has to push the envelope on this stuff...

What does make me nuts are two things:

1. Tuners minimize the risks, or worse THEY dont understand the risks...

2. Owners who blindly believe salesmen...or look at the risk through a prism of other cars, other marques, other tuning efforts that took years to perfect.

Ive had a front seat watching some pretty amazing efforts, where people knew the risks yet pushed the envelop in a reasoned, planned project- ultimately to the benefit of many others. And seen the flash in the pan, dirty tuners with blown head gaskets and bent rods.

I go nuts when an owner worries "will this impact my warranty?"... I have total respect the owner that says "I could wind up buying a $20k motor if this goes wrong".

Anyone thinks a 'tune' is a 'thing' you buy, like a bushing or an exhaust- and that for the E70 all tunes are pretty much the same, or they tuners know all the limits- is kidding themselves

I dont know where Lambeau is on this spectrum. I hope he doesnt confuse the ready availability of tunes in the M5/m6 world for this being 'just another version'. 500 miles on one car?

Make sure you know what kind of player YOU are. ;) Its as important as the tune and tuner!

Yeah, this can get very expensive before it even has begun. Our specific DDE (diesels) is sealed with a special PU, similar as the one used for the windshields. The only way to read/write is to open it to connect to the processor boot pin. Openning the DDE has a lot of risks involved and i wonder how many tuners are ready to take responsibility if someone's DDE does not work anymore. R/W with cheap chineese tools also hides huge risks. I dont say anything bad about the guy advertised in the first post, just revealing some sides that most people dont think of.
I didnt even started with the short and long term effects that improper tuning may have on the engine and subsystems. Generally this engine is almost indestructible, except if someone wants to do this on purpose. But if someone wants to leave the emission related parts on the car and just get a few HP extra, improper tune may clog the DPF in just a few hundred miles. As with all things in life there are proper ways to do something and there are shortcuts.

Thank you Lambeau for promoting our product online. I was gladly surprised to see our product advertised online even before we joined the boards.

Right now I would like to take some time to introduce our company to you guys. We have started contributing to BMW world back in 2011/2012 when we built a first E39 540i with Roots/Twin screw supercharger just to say that is possible. Also we have been responsible for doing numerous custom swaps from E46 M62 swaps to E38 S62 builds to Authentic E39 M5 touring builds. All of the work we have done was performed in house and all tuning and software aspects of the swaps have been done by us. We have tools for tuning (and soon will be selling diesel tunes for) Fxx cars including F30/F31 Diesel. We already have read out F31 328D software and now building custom maps for it. So we hope you guys can see that we are not new to tuning and custom work.


We do not spend too much time on boards, but that is something we are going to slowly get into to as most of our customers are you guys, the board members.

To all of our local board members, we hope to see you at BimmerFest in few weeks. We are bringing S62 E39 Wagon, Our testing platform E70 35D, SC S62 built 1997 540i and a 2014 328D wagon.


Now you guys feel free to ask questions regarding this product that we are releasing as well as anything else.


...........


Yes, it is a risky business, and this is why there are no USA based companies offering the services. Yes a new tuner probably can open the computer, and tune it with basic torque limit increase. That will give you power increase but like bawareca said, that will have negative effects on your car, especially if you have DPF still attached. Such tune will also kill the 6hp26 trans that our cars are fitted with.

On other hand, our tune is tailored to your needs. We have modified over 70 important addresses in the file to address post injection (for DPF deleted cars), Soot control, Pilo Injections, Smoke maps and many more. We also increased torque reduction and de-bounce timers for gear shift to prevent damage to transmission.


Regarding opening the computers. Yes, for someone new to this, this is not an easy task. It can take close to an hour for a new tuner to take it apart, and hope they dont damage one of the chips or the traces on the board. But thanks to a little tool we created, it only takes 5 minutes for us to take one apart with 100% success rate. this is something we guarantee to your customers.Because we are an actually USA based company, if, for any reason, we damage the electronics of customer's computer, we are responsible for replacing it. Customer satisfaction is something we take serious up here.

There is at least one other US based offering for M57 tuning and it happens to be me and my company. After more than 6 months development on a multiple X5 I am almost ready to release the tune for the public. However there are few things that still hold me back. I would never offer a tune without a dyno charts and comparisons back-to-back with stock. In a 21st century claims for 10,20, 30% increase just do not cut it. It is a bit complicated and expensive to book a full day at a 4wd dyno (multiple tunes from stock to stage 4 has to be tested and documented)
Other thing that is important to me is that regardless I am active member here and try to help many members with their problems, I dont feel Ok to advertise without contributing financially to this great forum.
But just as a teaser, our Stage 1, which is completely stock engine, is projected at 320hp and 480tq. Stage 2, which needs only EGR OFF, should be over 350hp and 400tq and stage 3, EGR and DPF OFF, is virtually limitless. My partner Raymond (TRF performance from Norway) has an E46 race car with M57, which on a single turbo makes 450hp and over 550tq.

This is exactly why we do not advertise or even participate on any boards. I dont know why, but People like bawareca always have to start drama out of thin air. We joined the xoutpost with only one purpose, and that is to introduce ourselves AFTER seeing that one of our customers decided to post our product up. We are not here to sell our product as its not for general sale YET. Once it is posted on our new website, then we will have no problem of becoming board sponsors.

I stand 100% behind the statement Bawareca quoted in above post. At the moment I posted that statement, there were no companies in USA offering this service/product. Even he states that his company is "almost ready to release the tune to public". "Almost" mean that you are planning on releasing it at some point. Plain and simple. Have you done real world testing? Have you towed 9000lb load with your EGR-OFF tune? Have you done that up Big Bear mountain that is 7000ft in altitude? Have you put thousands of miles on the tune and inspected the motor, turbos,transmission, differential, etc? No you have not. SO PLEASE, dont start drama on the boards.

Why is there no Dyno chart for our product? First of all, we are not claiming specific power gains. The tune we offer right now is to SUPPORT EGR, DPF, and SCR delete. That is is. Are there power gains? Absolutely. Are we claiming any specific numbers? Not YET. We are waiting to tune our shop's F31 328D and throw both cars on a dyno.


EDC17 computers are capable of ridiculous numbers. Does that mean that your 6hp26 trans will hold it? NOPE. Show us a proof of your test X5 holding 800+NM of torque after 1000 miles of extreme abuse. You cant because the trans in 35D/335d as well as transfer case are extremely week for the torque this engines can produce

So again, please stop causing drama.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRgycth3tGk

C'mon you guys: we love you both and we don't care who's penis is longer :thumbup:

What drama? :dunno:

Alex at BimmerOEM has been nothing but perfect as I performed this modification. I've sent numerous emails & texts with questions through the process and Alex has answered every inquiry and phone call I've made. The quality of the DPF delete pipe is perfect and the install was easy. 100% perfect and I've pulled a good sized trailer for well over 1000 miles already and will be taking a 9000 mile trip to Alaska & return starting this month. No worries at all for this trip.

I do not measure any parts of my body, neither i need tuning to make them more capable. For competitions there are dynos and there are drag strips.
Sorry if someone found drama in my posts. There is no such intentions whatsoever. I didnt join this forum or any other, ever, to advertize anything. I am just a die hard BMW fan who happens to make living in this shi++y car business.

After I installed the computer upon having it sent from Alex I've had zero issues at all. My X now has unbelievable performance and am VERY glad I did this. If you do this you will be very pleasantly surprised with the power and MPG increase. Start my drive from Florida to Wisconsin early tomorrow pulling a 3200# trailer. Before I did this I was averaging 16.5 MPG pulling the trailer. I'll report on the MPG's when I get to Wisconsin in a few days.

Alex also updated my computer as it was a while since that was done. He can better explain exactly what he did. He also reprogrammed it to get rid of the throttle lag like what the Sprintbooster would do.

Overall VERY happy with every aspect of this mod. I would never own a diesel without doing this.

Pulled the 3K# cargo trailer from FL to WI and averaged 18.2 MPG at mostly 74 MPH. 2000 miles and not a single check engine light. 4000 miles since I changed the transmission fluid/filter and have had no catastrophic transmission failure like some here have predicted. 105,000 miles on this transmission too.

Great to hear that :thumbup:Looks like a solid work.
BTW your tuner Alex is the one who expects transmission doomsday ;) Only time will tell.

Thanks for the update. I'll be curious to hear how it all is going after 10-15k miles, too. I'm not in any position to make these changes to my X right now, but certainly something I'm interested in for the future.

Do you have any way to log live data?

I was pulling a UHaul 6x12 dual axle trailer with 2 motorcycles and some camping gears. Call it 3,000lbs all together.

Coming back from the race track I was able to monitor a few live parameter and going up the Tejon pass on I-5S (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tejon_Pass) at 65mph EGT was up to right around 700C (that's right around 1,300F). No DPF regen going on.

I had the cruise control on and that was full boost, 4th gear, probably right around 3K rpm if I remember it right.

What kind of EGT you see when you put full load for some time? I know it's kind of an open question, but if you have some example to share I'd be interested.

No, there were some here who predicted that changing the trans fluid/filter would create transmission problems. It wasn't Alex that stated that.

About the transmission myth.... some people say that if you never changed the fluid/filter in the recommended schedule and you are way pass that you should do it at all!!! Whats your take on this issue, some bimmers come with bad tranys like the first E46 were having issues but then BMW corrected the issue and then they were rock solid. But I'm curious on the x5 35d to see if it will break. I'm planning on keeping mine for the long run 200k at least.

The stated reason for not changing at all is that it would dislodge some broken off bits and they would get stuck in places, clog passages, get grinded etc. Leading to some breakdown. Perhaps there is a chance of that.

But the way to guarantee transmission breakdown at 150K is to never change fluid.

One has to understand that for BMWNA, "lifetime" means 100K, a period after which they are not liable for anything (at this mileage is past original warranty, past CPO, past any of their extended warranties).

Any update on this, or anyone else running the same or a comparable setup? I'd love to delete everything off of my X5, but it seems like most discussions around tunes and deletes for this motor involve the same few folks talking in some coded language...it hasn't been easy getting good, solid information on what's available.

Lets start here:

Do they have smog control and/or inspections where you live?

If 'Yes", then how would you plan on handling that? Answer that before you talk tunes and mods.

No. One-time safety inspection and diesels are exempt from the bi-annual emissions inspections that gas powered vehicles are subject to.

What are the federal implications for removing/altering vehicle emission control system/devices? Is it similar to those for gasoline powered vehicles?

Exactly the same.

(whatever that is....)

Anyone got a DIY for DPF removal on the E70? How difficult, or hopefully easy is it?

Update: After 10,000 miles this couldn't be a more perfect upgrade. Recently returned from a 9,000 mile Florida to Alaska trip pulling a 4,000+# enclosed cargo trailer. Not one issue or concern and the torque now available is amazing. Factory muffler is in place but you can really hear the turbo whistle now which I like.

Also purchased 18" Touren wheels on Ebay and Dick Cepek Trail Country Tires and they were perfect for all of the rough roads, gravel, & off-roading done. This entire trip was also done with a trans pan/filter purchased on Ebay and using Pentosin trans fluid, not BMW fluid. Also used Ebay oil and air filters. Don't let folks scare you into using only BMW parts, they're full of s#!t. Now have 118,000 miles on the odometer so this isn't a low mileage vehicle either.

Hmm, 10000 miles with eBay parts, huh? I wasn't aware they made vehicle parts. Now everyone who insists on using BMW parts is full of shit? Nice. Did you mean people who insist on buying parts from BMW? Hey, if you want to save a few bucks buying parts cheaply, go for it. I don't think anyone cares.

You actually considered that Ebay made parts? If you couldn't figure out that they were simply bought on Ebay you're not very bright. "You" don't think anyone cares that money can be saved vs. paying excessive prices for BMW parts? We don't make a lot of money in the military, I care and I'm sure others do also if they can save money.

WOW!!! 10,000 miles after a DPF delete with no problems whatsoever. This is really good news. Thanks for the update. I'm getting more and more interested.
Did you change out everything yourself? How hard was it?

Yeah, did everything myself. It was easy, just time consuming. Really put it through some rough duty pulling the heavy trailer through some tough country and lots of elevation changes. It was nice to have all that extra power pulling the trailer. I replaced the CAT with a stainless flex pipe and will eventually have that replaced that with a permanent stainless pipe at a custom exhaust shop.

If you're considering this, contact Alex at BimmerOEM. He was great with every aspect of this mod.

there's no need for a dpf downpipe, just cut your existing housing, crush the DPF ceramic, take it out, weld it nicely back together, mount it back where it belongs
and, if i'm not mistaken, there's no need for the ECU/whatever computer software update if you don't mind having a little post-injection cycle once in a while
oh, and fill your DEF tank with diesel instead of adblue....

Hmmm,,,Wont that set of a myriad of errors and check engine lights?

No, you said 'eBay parts' not 'parts purchased on eBay.' I assume you purchased specific parts manufactured by specific companies purchased from specific vendors.

Instead of being specific you merely stated 'eBay parts,' compared them directly to BMW parts. By not being specific, you implied all parts available for purchase on eBay are as good as parts available from BMW. The basis for your argument seems to be that they're cheaper and that they worked for at least 10000 miles. You then plainly stated that anyone who thinks otherwise is full of shit.

Your input provided zero value to the forum because it was too vague, subjective at best and insulted forum members who have differing opinions and/or experiences.

I didn't say no one cares about saving money. I said that no one cares about you saving money. That fact alone is not enough to be interesting. I am interested in quality parts and paying as little as possible.

Sometimes that means buying from eBay, parts houses or the dealer. Sometimes that means buying aftermarket, OEM or OE. Sometimes that means getting a great deal and other times spending more.

If you think just because I'm in the military that I'm suddenly going to head to eBay to buy my parts because you've had a good run, you're mistaken, sir. My experience and the experience of others have shown that some of the parts available on eBay are not any good at any price. Some are counterfeit, especially Bosch-branded components. Of course, there is no catalog of these items so it is a bit of a minefield. The best service you can provide is by way of a specific list of components you purchased, their manufacturer and the vendor you used. That's the best that any of us can do.

But, I guess I'm not very bright.

The only result of having a missing dpf is that the sensors of pressure, before and after the dpf, measure approx the exact same pressure. It's called back pressure and should be below 75mbar when running the test procedure with Rheingold. If dpf is missing the dpf back pressure will measure somewhere around 0. Bmw ECU units are programmed to register a fault "back pressure too low", however this fault will not light anything on your dash and your vehicle will keep running perfectly. If the def unit fails, replace the sensors with a set of appropriate resistors that have the same resistance as a good working def sensor. That's a lot safer than opening up your ECU for programming. The

Im glad out kit worked out great for the OP. 10K mile trip is an amazing test for something like this.

I looked over coupe of responses and noticed people advising crushing the original dpf material, installing resistors and calling that a job complete. Tho the mechanical aspect is possible and do-able, the resistor idea (tricking computer to working without dpf) will not work. First of all, you will have massive power loss at mid range. Second of all, you will have Yards of black smoke behind you once the computer goes into regen mode.

We drive pretty expensive cars, and I strongly believe that putting resistors on cars without a tune is not a proper solution. If a potential customers want to obtain their own hardware for the DPF delete, we will be more then happy to sell you just the tune.

Any videos?

How is the exhaust noise affected, if at all.

We are glad to announce that the production has started on these pipes. First five customers will receive $500 discount on Stage 2 option.
Here are the pictures of the final pipe:

http://i1000.photobucket.com/albums/...psmhbr2vpv.jpg

http://i1000.photobucket.com/albums/...psc8lubyhu.jpg

http://i1000.photobucket.com/albums/...psgwjm82eh.jpg

Still 110% glad I did this mod. Alex was awesome through the process of doing this and after 12,000 miles I've yet to have a single issue. For MUCH more power and better MPG's this must be considered!

Jesus, if this was available about 1-2 months ago, I would have done it in a second. My EGR cooler pipe cracked and I would have much rather just dumped all the emissions crap. Oh well. Maybe if I still have this thing when it cracks again...

So im in NY and we have emissions but nothing gets put in the tailpipe to sniff anything.
My DEF tank has an error code of P205C and i dont feel like spending all that money to get a new one, im at 105k miles.
If i get this delete pipe and install it, put the sensors in and clear all codes will i pass inspection, considering everything else is good to go? The ECU needs to be coded as well correct?

Also, what happens to the DEF tanks when this delete is done, can i still keep the CAT and the muffler in? Im not looking for loud exhaust, just want to have a worry free diesel w/o all this clean burning crap.

Ozer, just responded to your PM.

Thanks again for the review of the product and Im glad you are enjoying the pipes

Count me in. You have a PM

Just letting you guys know that we got another 10 kits made and ready to be shipped out. Inquire via PMs or email: [email protected]

Has anyone has any issues with the exhaust smell inside the cabin after deleting the DPF? I bought this kit from Alex and just got my X5 back from the shop yesterday. It runs great but when I stop at a traffic light the exhaust smell inside the car is pretty strong.

Maybe the EGR cooler got damaged somehow? I heard thats what causes the smell. Are your upper turbo to exhaust bolts tight? Apparently they can back out and even fall off, leaving you with a leak.

Its all good. I spent the day yesterday driving around and trying different things. Its only an issue when I am stopped and the engine is running. There is no smell at all while driving, and as long as I set the vent controls to recycle the air and not let in any fresh air from outside the smell is completely gone.

There is an exhaust gas leak somewhere in the engine compartment. The gas collects and gets into the HVAC inlet when the car is stopped, but it gets blown away when the car is driving.

Yes, there's an exhaust leak out of the tailpipes! When you stop, the exhaust will drift towards the front unless you're parked into a headwind and of course the smell will come through the windows or to the base of the windshield where it can be drawn in with the HVAC fan. I have over 30,000 miles on this mod and have never had an issue with an exhaust leak from anywhere but the tailpipes.

So you have sharp diesel exhaust smell in the cabin immediately after you stop the car and the engine is running and the heater/AC is on?

I have never smelled diesel exhaust even when standing at the tailpipes. There is an exhaust leak.

The smell is the strongest when I first start the car. Even with the AC off when I first start the engine the exhaust smell hits the cabin in about 3 seconds and then fades. While driving its fine, but if I come to a stop in heavy traffic and the AC is set to pull fresh air in from outside I can smell it.

could be vacuum hose line damage
 

Check out this thread. Similar symptoms. Could be vacuum hose line damage.

I've driven with this mod for over 30,000 miles and no matter how many times I state that it's the exhaust drifting from the tailpipes it won't matter. I'll just smile when I say "I told you so". :)

I have the same problem. It may be incorrect installation/seating of the V-band connection, loose sensor or not good delete pipe. But it is definitely exhaust leak in the engine compartment. There is no way the exhaust gasses will go from the exhaust tips to the cabin filter on every occasion. If my windows are open most of the time) but blower is OFF there is no smell. Once I turn the AC it gets nasty if the car is stationary and no problem when it moves.

hi, did u do it? im in NY with the same truck(Car?) :D just notice my EGR has a leak, and thinking about this mod, :D

No i didnt, my tank sensors are working now so fingers crossed. I been told "Passing inspection is the least of my worries" so idk what that means, i just left it at that for now.

I understand that accomplishing the DPE delete may create more black soot and smoke from the exhaust?
I also wonder if there are other benefits (or more importantly, problems) as a result of removing the system or is it all just emissions stuff that limits engine power?

Yeah, soot, and worst, smell. I have everything deleted and the car goes like stink, but the smell is sometimes too much.
But you wife's new diesel is rather old, so if you dont have emissions testing in your state you may consider a full delete. It removes the problems, in return getting only the aformentioned soot(ok) and smell(sometimes hard to live with).

No thanks... Its my wife's car and she already complains about the gaseous odor that eeks from my Catless DP'd and tuned X5M. The diesel has plenty torque, so if I do anything to that vehicle, it would be a tune only. If I really need more power, then I'll simply drive the M.
:D

Totally agree. With a tune it really gets alive without any side effects. You can hit me up if interested.

Gixxerboy: Yes, deleting DPF will definitely create some amount of exhaust smoke but soot and black smoke can be minimized if you do not go for the performance increase software. If we keep your injection quantity at factory levels, you will see only slight performance increase but the smoke will be extremely minimum. By raising injection quantity along with boost, we can still attempt to keep smoke levels down but it all depends on the turbos ability to provide enough oxygen. The "issue" with our twin turbo diesel engines is the switch over from small to large turbo. During this switch over, a car with injection quantity increase will suffer from some amount of black smoke, especially during downshift/throttle blip.

Regarding hardware removal, really there is only one downside (aside from the legal aspect): longer warm-up cycle for EGR delete option.

1) DPF: By removing DPF, you are freeing up exhaust and releasing stress from a turbo. Also, on original power level tune with DPF removed, you will reduce boost oscillations and thus extending turbo life.
Cars with DPF have post injection cycles (additional diesel is being injected after main combustion to "clean" DPF. Post injection cycle has 2 drawbacks. First, the obvious one being MPG reduction as you are using up to Diesel to clean your DPF.
Second one is not well known, but very important. The post injection cycle happens during exhaust stroke when all of the burnt mixture is being released to the exhaust system. During this time, computer momentary opens up the injectors to provide small amounts of clean diesel into this mixture. The side-effect of this, surprisingly, is dirtier engine oil. The way the diesel has to be injected into the burnt exhaust mixture allows for a small amount of this clean diesel to mix with burnt soot and drip down the cylinder walls and mix with engine oil. Even though the amounts are not extreme, the dirty mixture still gets into the oil. This is why a lot of drivers do not need to add any oil to their diesel engines between oil change cycles. In many cases, the engine oil level will actually increasebetween oil changes.

2) SCR/Adblue has only one purpose on a diesel car. That is "cleaning" exhaust. Nothing more. Yes, one day this technology will be "perfected" and actually usable but the systems found on E70/E90 suffered major engineering issues and cost owners thousands to get them repaired. By removing the SCR functionality from the software code, the customer can completely remove both tanks and all of the sensors/injectors from exhaust.

3) EGR... Good old EGR. Yes, EGR has one real benefit, with that being faster warm-up cycles. With that benefit, we get a lot of side-effects. EGR introduces DIRTY exhaust and soot into your intakes. Though it isn't an extreme amount, it's still enough to cause carbon and soot buildup on your intake ports and swirl flaps.

A side note on the benefit of EGR; Having EGR lowers EGTs due to the fact that burnt exhaust gas introduced by the EGR system into the combustion chamber occupies space, instead of allowing more clean air/diesel. This lowers combustion temperatures, thus lowering EGTs.

Here is one inside tip that not many tuners will tell you: A performance software installed on a car with all original hardware WILL shorten turbo and DPF life. The higher the power gains, the more it will shorten the life of those two parts. This is due to the fact that with higher diesel injection you are pressurizing the already restrictive exhaust even more. This creates more turbulence and oscillations, damaging the turbo. Higher injection will introduce more soot into the DPF, clogging it up faster until the point at which the regeneration process can no longer clean it well enough.

As you can see, there are some benefits of the emissions systems, but they are outweighed by the issues they create. A properly created software tune can compensate for the removed benefits of emissions systems and really bring your car to life. We can build a custom tune for any of our customers, being it like "Lambeau" who wanted everything removed or for anyone who just wants the performance increase with original hardware or partial hardware delete.

Good points and clean explanation. I will just chime in with a few more facts.
Diesel soot, or black smoke:
As most of us know it is a product of a too rich of a mixture, or too much fuel(diesel in our case) in the air fuel mixture. Here is a very interesting question: Why Bosch and BMW spent millions of dollars and hundreds thousands of man hours to create a highly sophisticated engine management system with a myriad of sensors and surgical precision to control the engine torque and the mixture is still rich? Why OEMs or tuners with immense experience cannot just make the mixture not reach(stoichometric) and just get rid of the black smoke? Here is the answer: this is the way the diesel works. In a modern gasoline engine a tuner will just raise the boost and the power will go up and other parameters will be adjusted automatically by the ECU. If you take a stock engine and increase the duty cycle of the boost control solenoid(s), guess what will happen? Nothing!!! Ok, probably nothing really useful. Because of the low energy (volume and temperature) of the exhaust diesel gases you need more of them to spool the turbo(s), especially in a low load situation or transition from no boost (cruising) to boost (medium and high loads). So the only way to put some energy into the exhaust is to inject more diesel. And guess what, it starts to smoke! It will be really heavy(still depending on the power level) until some boost starts to build, but will be present all the way to the redline if the power is really high. Again, it is not smoking because of the power it makes, it smokes to make this power;) Obviously, if a DPF is installed in the exhaust the smoke will be absorbed, but the engine power will be limited due to the exhaust backpressure. A lot of it. As Alex said, the smoke will be high around 3700 RPM, the switchover point for the turbos. Of course with good knowledge and experience the "dip" in the boost can be ironed out and made almost invisible, but these are details.
On the point that a so called "Stage 1" tune will cause DPF, EGR or other problems:
Overall DPFs have been around for almost 2 decades and the systems are pretty much perfected. When everything in the engine is intact and all systems work a stock engine will regulate and regenerate "itself" for a millions of miles without a human intervention. The computer measures the DPF differential pressure (pressure drop across the DPF) and calculated the soot load accumulated. Once it reaches a certain amount, a flag for regeneration is set, but it may not occur immediately. It may take some time until certain conditions are met(engine speed, vehicle speed, engine temp, exhaust temp, etc). Also there is so called passive regeneration which occurs at high load conditions when the temp in the exhaust is increased by the hot exhaust gases and some of the soot will burn. If there are mechanical, sensor or other electric problems all goes to hell, but this is not what we are talking about now.
Obviously with increased power (stage 1) soot load on the overall system will be increased. With stage 1 I mean any tune that will raise the power by changing the calibration parameters only and not any hardware changes. But there are numerous reasons why it COULD be done safely: there is a very wide safety margin built-in the system from the factory. As if the car is owned by old lady in Maine and she drives 2 trips of 10 miles each in heavy traffic every day. This will put the system at immense soot load, but it will still probably hold 20-30 k miles before it finally quits. And if there is only one moderate highway trip a month it may hold on for a very long time. We may need infinite improbability drive to calculate the chance of this lady installing a "stage 1" tune. And even if this happens in a galaxy far, far away, this tune will do absolutely nothing for her. Because it works only at medium and high loads which she never reaches. For a conscious owner and car enthusiast a well developed tune will only bring upsides and not any real downsides. The regeneration cycles may occur more often, but as long as they are triggered and executed following the normal procedure that is not a problem at all. The DPF doesnt "wear" going thru the normal cycles of collecting and burning the soot. With more power and more spirited driving obviously more "passive" regeneration will occur, so that will help too.
Now, removing the EGR and leaving the DPF intact may open a whole new can of worms and will probably lead to destroying or totally plugging the DPF.
I have more than 20 k miles on my car with TRF stage 1 in the development cycles and my really aggressive driving and no problem ever happened. We also have a few other cars running it for a some time and no problems were reported by far.

Very interested in a partial (full?) delete and tune after I'm out of CPO. A few questions I have it: will everything look OK/factory on the OBD2 side? In CT they do test emissions by checking the OBD computer and making sure everything looks OK. There is no "sniffer" test for OBD2 cars. Will it pass?

If I were to do a partial delete, what makes sense? What piece of hardware does it make sense to delete first? I ask because ease of reverting to stock if I ever sell it is a concern. I wouldn't want to rip out the tanks and piping for the DEF system.

You may want to read more carefully thru this thread and you will find some answers. Other answers we dont have yet ;)

I had read all 7 pages and I see a member asked about the OBD and emissions about a year ago and he was replied by PM and there was no resolution. I was hoping by now that the people doing these tunes (presumably you and BimmerOEM) would know if the ECU can be coded to make it look like any deleted system is still functioning. Like how the secondary air pump fault can be masked with software on the e39 M5. I would think answering the emissions question is important to most buyers because I don't know many states that don't have emissions testing for cars less than 25 years old.

Regarding partial delete of hardware, I think I'm understanding that
1) DPF delete can give noticeable power and MPG gains.
2) EGR doesn't give as much power gains but will help you have a cleaner engine in the long term, but cannot be deleted without first deleting the DPF.
3) DEF system won't give any power gains but can be deleted with just software.
Is this correct?

Looks like this matter was discussed more on PMs. My idea is that if someone creates a tune that will have all emissions systems deleted and is passing smog legally he will put himself in a very bad position, namely in VAG position. But probably consequences for a small business will be much more life threatening or fatal than for the infamous group. It probably could be done by sending the DDE out of country for re-flashing and the price will be not cheap overall, and i guess at this point most owners that want this will quit chasing this path anymore. It looks like a dead end to me at this time, but other people may have other ideas.

You are deeply mistaken here. First of all it is not a secondary air pump fault, but a secondary air system not enough flow fault. What "tuners" do is to flash a euro tune in the ECU and the euro engines dont have SAS at all. By removing this subroutine in the ECU also monitoring is canceled, but there is a possibility to pass smog test with 1 monitor implausible/not cleared.

This is correct.

OK I guess this may not be an option for people who still need to pass state emissions.
As for e39 SAP... I know what the coding does and may have used the wrong term but my point was there are tuners who can make it pass emissions with a fault in the system.
I'll reevaluate when in another couple years when I hit 100k and something fails :thumbup:

Basically asking the tuner to break laws and do what WV did, trick the system. Yes it can be done im sure but morally and for possible legal actions, most tuners will not do it.
I looked into this as well but NYS emissions put an end to this idea for me.

I guess if someone were to register their cars in a state that doesnt have emissions that may possibly work? Not sure.

Sub'd

I'm struggling to understand why the dpf delete causes more diesel smell. Is the cat part of the dpf?

I had a 1996 ford crew cab diesel dually with the 7.3 turbo diesel. My cat ran away and I regretted not having a better leash every day after that. The smell was terrible.

I understand getting rid of the dpf but not the cat. Help a non-e70 x35d owner understand the relationship between the dpf delete and the smell issues.

Side note: I had a four position switch on the ford; one being daily driving, one being towing, one being for emissions testing (dyno sniffer test) and the last being what I called global warming or block out the sun setting. ;-)

Admranger, good question. Now when i think about it, when the DPF/CAT is deleted, the SCR is disabled too. I will try to activate my SCR again and see if the smell, or most of it, will go away.

I'm new to the BMW diesel terms. Type slower for me next time: SCR = ? :(

Selective Catalytic Reduction, aka Urea injection.

Thanks! :thumb:

So the DPF is also the catalytic converter? Interesting.

Actually, our US spec DPF consists of a 1/3 catalytic on the front and 2/3 DPF at the back. SCR catalytic is located in the middle of the exhaust, somewhere under the rear seat.

http://i1362.photobucket.com/albums/...pspnkknhkt.jpg

Very interesting. Have you looked at removing the DPF bits from inside the unit while leaving the CAT part alone? Put in a collector and then straight pipe where the DPF was (pack with glass wool or rock wool for sound deadening). . Then weld it back up (open from the top so it's less noticeable).

This way you're it's not a stink bomb and you're solid against anyone nosing around while still getting rid of the DPF bits.

The cat is for the CO only, it does not stink much ;)

What deals with the NOx then?

SCR, the urea injection and the nox cat in the middle of the exhaust.

Thanks! I'm learning a lot about these.

The DPF replacement piece does look really nice. Good stuff!

Update
 

Odometer just hit 150,000 miles and have still had ZERO issues with this mod. Just drove from Wisconsin back to FL and averaged 23.1 MPG mostly at 79 MPH. At a steady 60 MPH it'll average 30.3 MPG. Still no issues with the transmission at 150K. I'll do a fluid change with Pentosin again next week since the filter/fluid change was at 100K miles.

[QUOTE=ZetaTre;1030947]As Sheldon would say: "In what universe is sending your DDE to some random dude you met on a forum even qualifies as an option, let alone be a better one?"...

Looks like egg on your face since I have 50,000 miles with this and zero issues.

Lambeau, thats awesome news. My 02 35d has 65k miles and the EGR cooler and NOX sensors done. If anything else craps out I'm biting the bullet and following your path.

thanks for the updates!

Just finished reading this thread while in the dealer getting a new active DEF tank and contemplating buying an X5m or upcoming Raptor.
I love my x5d and the fact it's paid for.
Contemplating getting a tune and downpipe but if i can't pass TX emissions then i'm stuck.

I pull a Spec E46 race car with a fully stock x5d and it works great. More power would be even better.

I am interested in this mod but bimmeroem website is down

Diesels are emissions exempt in texas. Only gasoline cars are OBD-II tested for emissions compliance in counties that require emissions testing.

I have no issues with my 335d passing inspection and I live in a "non-attainment" area Galveston county. Heck how many smoke bleching, turbo-screaming pickups have you seen? All the time right, becasue no diesel emissions testing.

That may change in the future.

This is something I'd be interested in as well.

I've got an '11 X5D w/ just under 114K on it. This might be a "when I have an emissions problem, I dump the emissions system" kind of thing.

Is this still an available product and tune?

Yes! Jr Tunning.

You'll need a downpipe and SCR bypass pipe as well to go full delete. BMW X5 35D Performance - 2009-2013 JR AutoTuning

I have it on my '11 335D

Just trying to decide when a $4k "upgrade" to "downgrade" the emissions makes sense then. :rofl:

Yeah, and there is more costs too. Like the labor of installing the downpipe which is a pain in the butt, and the SCR bypass. As well as draining the DEF tank. The easiest part is the DDE....

BTW you can purchase a second DDE and have it cloned, so when your re-tunning your prime DDE you can run on the backup, or swap to make troubleshooting easier at the stealer.

Just a few notes:
-these DDEs cannot be cloned, expect with Magpro X-17(possibly, tool that few people statesides have.
-On my 35D I installed the DPF delete (PITA), EGR delete (easy) and left everything intact. My active tank is full (keeps the sensors alive,maybe) and my passive tank is probably half full. I dont see downsides except a few lbs extra weight, unsubstantial for a 6k lbs monster.
I really dont see where one will spend $4k, even if careless. For the X5 the biggest problem is to find the downpipe (DPF delete), all else is available. We still have special on the Stage1 and 2 tunes for under a grand.
I actually have had laying around a DPF from my flooded parts car and just gutted it and installed it. Some guys are using a 1/2" super long drill bit to drill a few holes in the DPF.

I'm not as worried about the labor to get the downpipe in, as my Indy gives me a ridiculous hourly rate when he does stuff at home. This is the kind of project I have a feeling he'd be pretty keen to help with.

My main concerns are about downtime and post-install support.

If you send the DDE for flashing while the DP is installed it would be just a few days downtime. I reflash the DDE to the newest SW version before it is tuned, so not much to bother for later.
Some people try to fix different kind of engine management problems with a DPF delete, but this never worked good. It is important that all systems are intact and engine runs trouble free before a delete is done. Faults like active tank sensors, NO sensors, EGR actuator will be taken care of, but other problems with engine sensors or injectors have to be taken care of first.

Seems reasonable. BMW X5D DPF and SCR cat delete - 3"

^Andrew Rodriguez is the man! He emails back promptly and his wife owns a 35D

CAT or no CAT?

There's no emissions testing here in MN, but TECHNICALLY, vehicles are required to have a CAT.

In order for me to actually do this, I don't want to be the obnoxious jerk driving down the street making a scene w/ my exhaust. CAT seems like it would help in that regard.

CAT will help with CO only. DPF is what takes care of the soot and SCR is what takes care of the NO and the smell. My X5 with ~400hp/550tq will make a slight haze under hard acceleration, nothing like a rolling coal. After a few days of very hard driving the hatch and the rear bumper will have a slight tint from the soot.

Yes, the DDE's can be cloned, I have had it done, you can read all about it in the e90 forums. Ask BPC or FixMyVW for the service. I believe they charged my $80 for the service. I have one DDE with original programing and a second with a stage 2 JR tune. I can swap between DDE's at will and have done so. This way I can switch between stock and tuned configurations.

I purchased the 2nd DDE for my car from a wrecked X5 35d. The 335D/35D DDEs are interchangeable. I paid about $265 including shipping for the second DDE.

I stand corrected.

So with DPF/SCR/EGR delete kit and ECU tune is there any significant engine/exhaust noise increase as compared to stock?

Yes rafraf77, there is increase in turbo sound after removing the DPF filter since the filter acts like a muffler/resonator.

Sorry for the downtime with website. We have merged our Diesel and M performance tuning sections together now and you can find this kit on our website at www.missiontuning.com


For those asking about cloning the DDE (Engine computer). Yes we can clone one for you, that is done very easily and we wont charge you extra fee for that when you buy the kit. Just send in your original computer as well as the computer you want to use install the clone software on.

Yes this is still a product we carry. Just had a slight delay moving everything over to a new site.

I would recommend the cat personally as it will help more with the smell than not having it - Rawtek Performance in Canada actually prides themselves on sourcing a catalyst in their TDI systems that takes care of 95% of the smell :) - I actually am going to email them to see if they are developing something for the 335D/35D

Would almost be best of both worlds to delete DPF and EGR to open up the engine breathing yet retain SCR/urea injection to take care of the smell/NO
- I wonder why that hasn't been done before, I guess because people don't want to be bothered with piss injection -

I'll second that.

DEF is cheap. I've got no problems topping that up, assuming SCR functionality can be maintained while deleting the DPF and re-circulation of exhaust gas though my engine. At the end of the day, I'm not trying to be green, but if I could curb some of the output while opening up the performance and longevity...it would feel like a happy compromise.

I would guess NoX sensors would get fouled pretty quick with DPF absent.
Unless, the solution is to ignore NoX sensors and just pump urea at constant rate (or based on RPM).

I'll mention.....

There is some benefit of keeping the DOC. The Diesel Oxidation Catalyst (DOC) not only reduces Carbon Monoxide (CO), but also unburned hydrocarbons and organic soot. So without it is much like running a car hatless and will result in more diesel stink. Its the unburned HC that makes diesel stink.

There are downpipes that remove the DPF but include a DOC to reduce the stink. North American 335d Post DPF Removal Exhaust Ideas - Page 9

Typically your SCR won't last long with a DPF delete. The SCR isn't designed to handle all the soot that passes through the system when you remove the DPF and clogs up after a few K miles. ABC delete without gutting SCR

In this case delete the DPF and SCR together or neither, its easier on an X5 than it is on a 335d. The only one that can be done independently is the EGR delete.

Well, deleting the EGR will result in a clogged DPF very soon. As you say it is all or nothing.
The emission stuff is there for a reason, not only user headache. The fact is, once the emission stuff gets deleted the car will stink and smoke and there is no way around it. Could be more, could be less, but it will be nothing like an original car.
I miss my clean car in a way, but everytime i step on the gas the regrets are gone with the smoke in the mirror :D

Some things maybe different between tuners. I'm aware that both BPC and JR Tuning offer EGR delete with the rest of the emissions systems active (DOC/DPF/SCR in place and on). I personally have such a tune, and they offer multiple EGR options including, a full EGR tune out, or a partial so that the EGR is only active during cold starts and or during DPF regens (not required, but improves fuel efficiency). EGR partially or fully disabled opinion?

Also Lots of folks run EGR blocks with no tunes and have done so successfully for > 60K miles. Hooper on the 335d forums blocked his EGR with no software tune for for more than 60K miles and the car functioned normally (other than an SES every 2nd start until it was erased) Those with the blocked EGR

The X5 does have 2 EGR paths unlike the 335d which makes things a bit more complicated to block.

I'm running a JR Stage 2 Tune with EGR delete and have not had an issue with my DPF becoming sooted up, it still does normal regens, been very happy with the tune.

T

Now this makes much more sense - and I agree that the SCR catalyst would get clogged up quick without a DPF in place - although my point was just a constant dosing rate of urea in order to keep the NO down, although you'd still be letting soot past -

Either way, I would DEFINITELY do the diesel catalyst to cut the stink down - Andrew @ FixmyVW has a nice EGR/DPF delete and includes a catalyst and EGR block off for about $1000 - just add a tune and your axle back exhaust of choice if you so choose -

BMW X5D DPF and SCR cat delete - 3"

Dosing urea and not having DPF filter in place is a bad idea. The surface of SCR cat will get fouled and clogged very fast not to mention carbon buildup on NOX sensors. The complete EGR DPF SCR delete package is a must for that reason. I have some old diesels that do not have DPF EGR and SCR not even CAT installed coming to my shop all the time and if everything is OK with the engine, injectors, air induction etc there is almost no exhaust smell at all. They puff a little cloud of smoke every now and then when floored but smell is almost absent ...or I may be just used to it being a diesel tech.

I just got an email back from Rawtek Performance in Canada as well yesterday - he told me they are working on a 335D solution now and they are hopefully going to be able to offer a 35D package in the coming months! So stay tuned - nice to have more options for our 35D's :)

Of course it works, but it is not a foolproof solution. DPFs get clogged even on a stock cars due to some factors, if drivers are not aware of the engine condition. The fact that you know your engine regenerates means that you are aware and EGR only delete will work for you. But if you live in colder climate and give the X to your wife the problem will arise sooner than later.

As a matter of fact, old (mechanical pump) diesels didnt have the NOX smell. It starts to appear on the modern engines with direct injection, but mostly from the lower CR of the modern engines. M57 has almost-gas-engine CR of 16:1. In other words-more modern the engine, stronger the smell. I remember when first generation VW pump-injector diesels came out in the 90s (in Europe). There was no eco equipment on these cars and there was a slight, but clearly distinguishable NOX smell present.
If someone puts together a working solution for no smell i would be the first to buy it.

Any updates as of yet on a reputable tune that can pass emissions?

bawareca, have you ever plaid with single event tuning aka removing pilot to make the X5 sound like an oldy. That would be kinda cool to hear idle.

I'm very interested in this mod.

I have noticed that there is a very slight sweet smell to the exhaust, as stock. It reminds me of my father's 05 cummins, which has a catalyzer, but no urea system. That has a very sweet smelling exhaust.

Seems to be 3 sources for pipes and 3 for tuning, does anyone have any opions or 1st hand experience with any of the following? Buzzken pipe /JR auto tuning, BimmerOEM tune/pipe PKG, or the TRF tune offering, I left out the unobtainium pipe just because of price point for me, but if money was no object they are beautiful

Buzzken on eBay seems to be the most favorable, price wise. The appearance isn't as nice, but as long as it's actually 304 or better stainless, it should do fine in the application.

There are some outfits on eBay that are selling just the DP without the midpipe for $250 or so, but they don't work on US models without some additional modification. I reached out to one of the vendors and they said they would happily make a US spec DP if I provide them with a stock DPF to get measurements. Obviously I'm not eager to send them mine. But I plan to recommend they buy one of the handful of stock US pipes on eBay to do their R&D.

There is also BPM sport with reviews on this thread
E70 BMW X5 35D 3.5" Turboback Exhaust DPF, SCR, UREA Delete - Page 5


I just looked these up as a comparison they all have different tunes so it's hard to compare what you get with who but these apparently are all dpf, scr and egr delete (but not including price of the dpf delete pipe)

BPM sport $1,300
Malone tuning $1,098 (their stage 2 plus dpf adblue and egr delete)
Jr Auto tuning $1,199 (stage 2.5 race)
BimmerOEM/Alex: $2100 or $2500 depending on the tune but including the dpf test pipe. might or might not be better out the door with everything included.
TRF tune/bawareca:$600 stage 1 or 2
GSR Technik (Previously Jailbreak Tuning): no pricing or website seems to be available maybe its just local business.

I am very interested in this tune, it's just somewhat difficult to keep track of who is offering what. I assume you can talk out individual features that you want added like for example turn off cold start mode or remove max speed limiter or increase rpms by 200 etc etc.

would be nice to put a group buy together with a number of people who would be interested and then go up to the tuners and see what they can do for us in terms of price.

price is a big issue for me as well, these are not tunes you can easily remove when you sell the car and you also have to remove/ reinstall the ecu and installing the straight dpf pipe is no easy task as the engine mounts must be undone and the sub frame dropped to get the dpf out intact. the savings in extra mpg alone do not add up to a $2000 tune.

Edit: added trf tunning option

You forgot to add TRF Stage1 or Stage2 for $600, special price still valid for forum members ;)
Of course there is no way to know it exist because our websites are still non-functional, but if someone is interested feel free to contact me. Quite a few members here are happy with our tune and service.

P.S. I dont know what "Stage 2.5 Race" is, but our Stage2 is maxing out the stock fuel delivery system. With ~380hp/550tq the fuel pressure is dropping ~50 bar at high gear/high RPM, so that would be the limit for the stock fuel system. However all the hardware have proofed to be over-engineered, like in the old days. No ill effects on the engine or the transmission (even diff is still fine, filled with Motul synthetic fluid) after 17k hard driven miles, including towing car trailer, 21' boat and even 1 track day.
Looks like I have too much faith in my bimmers, perhaps this is why they dont usually break on me ;)

Keep in mind the Buzzken is 409. One of the reasons I went with unobtainium.

I have had the TRF stage 1 with no deletes for just under 30k now and still going strong!

^^I would love to go with Unobtanium but I do like that Alex can add in a top quality cat on the pipe in order to cut some of that diesel stinky down :)

That is something to consider. I had not confirmed the material. 409 could be an issue over time, that close to the turbo.

Thank you I updated my orignal post and I sent you a PM.

as for the stages i guess there is no FDA checking what stage 1 or stage 2.5 means but:

Stage 2.5 they(JR auto tunning) claim +85HP +135TQ from stock
looks like your TRF stage 2 is +120HP +90TQ
stock is 260hp 460tq

do you increase the rpm limiter as well? and are there any Dynos yet

I thought the stock tq was only 425 in the US models.

What are your thoughts on the BuzzKen exhaust? I'll probably be going that round, and a HPEGR delete and your tune. I'm sure there's no surprises, but are you familiar enough with that hardware selection to provide the right tune on the first go-around?

^^Email Andrew - I don't think 409SS is an issue personally, but he is the fabricator and can answer any questions - [email protected] - he always responds to my email inquiries very quickly!

I'm sure the parts will last 15+ years without an issue. But 409ss is prone to rust in high heat applications. I'm sure much of the factory exhaust is made of the same materials.

Yes you are correct
I copied that wrong

Thanks.
By the book, stock tq is 425. With my [estimated] 550 if I floor it under 1800 RPM and the [stupid] transmission doesnt downshift the torque converter damper springs will "chatter" almost scary :D I guess 20-30 ft/lbs more and something will go kaboom. We intentionally have took out some tq in the low-mid range so it is not extreme.
The rev limiter is set to 5100 RPM, but the [stupid] transmission will upshift before 5700 RPM. I am really eager to change the transmission behavior once the stuff discovered by Deftronix is up and running. If there is one thing that I hate in this car it is the transmission calibration.

I have no experience with aftermarket downpipes, but many guys here do. I had a flooded DPF that i gutted and installed, it obviously fits like original :rofl:
To the California guys-has someone ever received a smog test notice? My car is in it's 5th year now and in the renewal that I just received smog test is not mentioned :D

Carries a lifetime warranty as well. Andrew is great! Just didnt want to look at a surface rusted exhaust when I work under the car. Since I drive up to the snow quite often just wanted to avoid the issues altogether.

what is the purpose of the midpipe?
it seems our midpipe is allready a hollow tube why do we need to get a another midpipe?

seems the cat and the dpf is on the downpipe.

http://i.imgur.com/YLJyHXyl.png

You are looking at info for the wrong region. We have the SCR reduction catalyst in our mid pipe.

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/images/diag_40l8.jpg

Ohhhh thx I was looking at the wrong diagram.

was thinking of just cuting that open and gutting the cat that way I dont need the midpipe.

based on what bawareca is saying his tune is not affected by what exhaust set up you go with is that correct? except that it's recommended to remove as much blockage as possible.

Here in Illinois passenger diesels are emissions exempt

My SCR cat (the one on the picture) is still installed and untouched. I didnt notice any negative effects, but maybe it is time to gut it too. I have gutted my DPF.

On an only slightly related topic, is it possible to ADD error checking to the DDE? For example, it would be nice if we could add, or maybe adjust if it already exists, a check engine light for when the stupid thermostat fails on these diesels. Gassers have a SES if the engine fails to reach operating temp. Yet many of us don't know that our thermostat is running 20°C cooler than intended. I understand it's a complex failure mode, with the need to relate operating time, engine load, etc.

Could you explain how you got it out of the car? did you need a lift?

It is doable to add a new sub-routine in the DDE, but only if someone has the original manufacturer description of the programming structure. But after all the t-stat fails only every 60-80k miles. Which reminds me that I have to check mine.

Although I have access to many lifts, I did mine with the car on jack stands. I removed passenger side motor mount and bracket, lifted the engine slightly, dropped the subframe a bit and was able to wiggle the DPF out. The long pipes for the pressure differential sensor have to be bent because they are hitting the firewall on the way out. It is not particularly pleasant job, but doable.

Yeah, I need to set myself a maintenance reminder to check the coolant tempt while driving.


Also, I've been meaning to pick up one of these, think it would work for the dpf job:


http://www.harborfreight.com/media/c...mage_11976.jpg

Most Magnaflow and Flowmaster exhausts I've seen are 409SS I don't think its that much to worry about, even factory exhaust is probably 409 - If you live and breathe in the salt belt then yeah it might show up as surface oxidation a bit sooner -

I'm a bit of a ways out from doing this as she has 45k miles and has 8 months of factory warranty left along with CPO after that, but since we are moving to NC which doesn't have diesel emissions, and since both NOX sensors have been replaced recently and the SCR catalyst is getting replaced tomorrow I have zero faith in the emissions system reliability for the long term. The engine and everything else, yes, but I won't bankrupt myself after warranty expires just to be "green" -

That's basically my feelings on it. In TN I don't have to worry about any inspections. And the peace of mind of eliminating the most troublesome part of an otherwise excellent engine is worth way more than any HP or MPG gains.

how did you lift the engine? and how many hours would you say it would take to remove it. and to put it back?

was hoping i could jack up the engine from the bottom with a regular shop jack.

also where is the dme and whats involved in removing it? i googled for a diy but apparently its a state secret.


well that makes 3 of us.

I'm gonna kill the emissions components before it kills my engine. :dunno:

I think Im gonna go with the dpf gut out path then that way i know it fits perfect, there will be no long term reliability problems due to installing aftermarket material and I wont have to spend extra dime on it.

should be simple enough to cut it with a grinder remove everything and weld it back with a arc welder...since I don't have Oxy acetalene.

I've never wrenched on a BMW before, do they use one-time use "stretch" bolts like VW/Audi does?

As long as you have the right filler rod.


The subframe bolts are recommended to be replaced upon removal.

Could always get the 409ss ceramic coated to prevent the surface rust, curious as well what you used to lift the engine?

@bawareca

am I right to assume then that the mid pipe o2 sensors listed here (1 and 11) are turned off by your tune?


http://i.imgur.com/gNQ009zl.png

1 and 11 are NO sensors and yes, they are out of commission for the time being ;)

How much impact does this have on emissions? Are there any numbers too show the difference with and without? I'm currently going to have to wait a month for a cat and pay more to keep the scr system I than it would to pull it. Obviously for off road use.

Im curious...is there a percentage of impact where you will decide "oh, thats too much polution for my car- I'll just fix it properly."????

The real question for most folks isn't how much emissions are impacted by removing various emissions devices, but can I live with the car post deletes.

There are trade offs of removing various components.

Example, remove the DOC and DPF means you will have significant diesel stink and black smoke unde certain condisitons and more noise. There is a long thread about this on e90post where folks have to keep their windows shut because of the diesel fumes.... might consider adding a doc,

Removing the scr catalyst, and def system adds more noise again, you'll really hear the turbo spool. But nearly no additional fumes. So from a living with it it's minor

So yes your car will be noisier, smellier, and more reliable. I would also keep in mind that under most conditions deleting the dpf and scr is only worth maybe 10-15hp, but is necessary if you want Hybrid. Removing the egr is pretty painless, it results in more orderless nox, bt improves fuel economy and reduces cbu

Also the more deleted the car is the harder it will be to sell, some folks want a deleted car but they are rare. Most won't want a modified car, as they think,it was raced and beat on. So as with all mods at best it won't help resale, at worst it hurts resale and you loose the cost of the mods and tune.

The car without emissions control will emit significant more hydrocarbons, particulates, NOx and noise. I'd suspect that NOx will be in the 40x range worse like on cheaty vws. Noise some more db, particulates is the really bad one as they are carcinogenic and you will be exposed to them. I personally wouldn't worry much, it's more about the resale, noise and stink (just use a dp with a doc)

Actually yes. I'm torn with this. I have a bad scr and they are on backorder. I want my vehicle to be more reliable and not have to pay so much to get this emissions components fixed throughout the life of the vehicle. I also care about air quality, water quality and climate change. I know there are worse offenders, that doesn't make contributing more acceptable.

That said, if the reduction in nox is minimal, I could live with it. The performance isn't as much a factor as reliability for me. I wish there were after market parts for this system.

Don't our cars have auto recirc function? I've only heard that the diesel stink is unbearable on a cold start in summer with the windows open, but I think leaving recirc in the auto function would help -

Also, get a diesel catalyst on the midpipe, don't just do a straight pipe, it will help the stink, but it won't eliminate it completely - but will be worlds better than a total straight pipe from turbo on back.

You'll have a bit more soot but most vehicles even with deletes and tunes don't push out much soot on common rails - soot is also NOT associated with NOX, as you actually produce less NOX with more soot (and vice versa), its all dependent on load, tune, etc -

My wifes is at 45k miles and the SCR cat took a dump and both NOX sensors and the urea tanks have both been replaced already. Thank God its under warranty and I know they aren't dieselgate cars but for fucks sake if BMW thinks I'm going to have all these parts replaced every 40k miles and start paying for it out of warranty they have another thing coming.

EPA standards are supposed to be 10y/120k miles on emissions components from what I remember from my Dieselgate days.

Are you saying they are federally exempt after that?

No. My issue is the lifespan and frequent failure of emissions components on BMW's common rail diesels. Which also deserves credit as they were the only manufacturer that I can think of (and I had about a year and a half during Dieselgate to read all about it) that hasn't been found to cheat on modern diesel emissions tests.

For example, o2 sensors, catalytic converters on gassers are rarely talked about failing and especially not during new car warranty period. They aren't maintenance items.

None of the emissions components (NOX sensors, urea tanks, DPF, SCR catalyst, etc) are supposed to be a regular interval maintenance item, they are supposed to be "lifetime emissions components" - but the way they fail often and multiple times as evidenced by many owners shows the opposite.

This is what led Volkswagen to cheat emissions on their CR diesels, because if they ran the software at full emissions all the time it would lead to early component failure, so obviously we are seeing that BMW did not cheat like VW did -

There are reports of some DPF failures on the Volkswagen boards early but for the most part the owners were told that the Gen 1 TDI's (the ones without urea) once fixed to EPA standards would carry certification for 10y/120k miles on the emissions warranty, and for the Gen 2 and Gen 3 cars that also had urea injection, it would be 12y / 150k miles -

I am getting into too much Dieselgate info here but our foray into the 35D here is a direct foray into it. All I will say is that bought back by VW at 35k miles literally all I did to the car was change the oil and put diesel in it and have the fuel filter service done once.

Yes VW cheated but its something to consider.

Vast differences with the emissions components when contrasted to our 35D's (and as Thecastle will report, on his 335D)

So I ended up ordereing the Buzzken downpipe and midpipe kit and will be shipping the ECU to bwareca this weekend.

Decided against butchering the scr and dpf because they are in working condition and I might be able to sell them.

Plan on doing a few things to settle some questions I still have after reading other accounts:

1. before and after 0 to 60 video on the same road and recreating same conditions as best as possible.
2. I took a screenshot of my trip computer showing average speed and average mpg right now. After the project and some driving I'm gonna take another screenshot whenever the trip computer hits the same avg speed and similar miles driven. It should give a fairly accurate estimate of what happens to the mpg under similar driving conditions.
3. before and after exhaust sound changes at idle and under acceleration at the tail pipe.
4. Weight total weight savings in parts before and after.

Any other ideas I'm open to suggestions before I pull the ecu. This is a very exiting project :driver:

Sounds great! Did you add the catalyst on the midpipe for $220? It should help the smell greatly.

Looking forward to results.

I'm also looking forward to reading about your experience. This is a future project for me as well!

Nope that was extra $$$/weight, It adds somewhat of a restriction, might get clogged possibly and I actually quite like the diesel smell of old low reving farm tractors.

Not sure if that is what is going to be like ? I hope so! :strut:

Sweet looking forward to hearing how it works out for you, take pics of the removal and install if you can

Update
 

Now at 70,000 miles with this mod and ZERO issues. 162,000 total miles now and also have never had a transmission issue as some on this post claimed I would have after changing the trans filter and fluid at 90,000 miles.

No DPF fluid to add, no chance of a DFP clog, no chance of any EGR malfunctions. Now averaging 32.6 MPG at 60 mph.

I just picked up a low miles 2013 35d. I am definitely interested in doing these mods to mine. Would rather not deal with all the mess and failure points. Free up the more, have more power, and get better fuel economy. Total winning combo!!

Here's the new link to the mod that has no issues like others here have just experienced: https://missiontuning.com/bmw-engine...e-package.html

A bit of time has gone by and I'll admit I've changed my perspective on these sort of things. I've deleted the Ram 2500 we bought and it has been nothing short than great ever since.

What interest me the most about this is the last statement "- Designed to set monitor readiness to "ready" for proper operation with all diagnostic software such as ISTA". If that's really the case than I really have no more reservation on doing this on the X5.

I'm really one more emission related issue away now... Thanks for sharing!!

how about diesel fumes at idle coming into the cabin or just in general?

93,000 miles with this mod and 185,000 total miles on the X and STILL perfect with ZERO issues.

Smell is stronger. But it rarely comes into the car for me.

I can smell the diesel fumes outside the vehicle but I've never smelled any inside.

Nothing like the smell of Diesel in the morning....

;)

I used to feel bad when I had to fire up my old Cummins 350 after a few squirts of ether on an icy Sacramento morning...

The smoke would lay low for several minutes as she stumbled to life. People pay to have smoke look like that on stage any more.