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-   -   BMW MY08 X5 Battery Problem (https://xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-forums/x5-e70-forum/100690-bmw-my08-x5-battery-problem.html)

koolkat1973 05-16-2015 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trader4 (Post 1038157)
You have the ability to read out all the BMW computer stuff?
Possible something is stored there that might help.

I do have the DCAN and Edibas software but I only know the basic usage of it. I can look at IBS information but it really doesn't tell me any history. I've looked and looked and can't find any good information regarding that.

Ron07x5 05-18-2015 11:19 PM

E70+ need to have a batteries characteristics defined to the x5 otherwise it doesn't know exactly how to charge the given battery. The battery needs to be a ago type.that can better handle the discharge.recharge cycles the x5 design will do to it. The x5 only.charges using the alternator when coasting. So if you do a.lot.of.short runs on level land you can discharge.the battery... the car will.get crazy as.the voltage of battery runs low. A fully charged battery with the car on but not.running should be over 13.volts not under. So I advise.you recharge.the battery.with a ago approved charger and.see how.the car.acts. fyi the charging.design is.crazy.bad .... do a search on Google using n63 hearing batteries and read ... n62 design is.the same just doesn't have a electrical discharge.of.fans.cool I g.turbo.

Ron07x5 05-18-2015 11:28 PM

Search with n63 eating batteries a road and.track article describes the design problem. Fyi I ordered a 12 dollar digital volt meter with two sub phone charge ports so I can monitor.the battery charge via.small.voltage.level variance Learning small voltage levels like maybe 13.4 battery fully.charged.and.maybe 13.0 battery half.charged.Will help us manage.the battery ..... sad we must.do.this. I will use.agm capable battery tender.charger to charge.the battery.if.I.discover.we.need.to rather than see.the battery.harmed by significant.discharge or.risk having.the battery not.having the charge.to operate.the car. I will make an plug.in adapter.to.front.of bmw.grill.to.plug.car.into.charger.if.I.discover.t hat.is sometimes.needed. yep.it.is nuts

lanbrown 05-18-2015 11:52 PM

That article has a few valid points but the issue is not as grave as they make it sound. 4.5 years on the original battery here. Many have experienced the same. When you start to get the high discharge alert, a new battery is in your future. A lot of short trips will cause the battery to fail sooner as it never gets fully charged. So 5 to 10 miles trips will be an issue. Nothing says you can't do short trips but you will either need to take a longer trip to charge the battery up or get a battery charger and put it on the charger a few times a week.

Ron07x5 05-19-2015 12:22 AM

Yes a lot of short and.level trips setup for a deeply discharged battery and recharging from deeply discharged kills batteries. My wife.works from home.and.when she uses.it.Will.drive.a.few.miles.to.the.store.or.gym on level.ground. I have.a.330I and.drive.just.like 2 miles.to.work. so maybe 6000 miles on each car.for.a year with some.signify can't.distance.traveled.on.some.weekend.in one.of.the cars. So I just.got.the x5 and now.realize my low mileage use does.fit.the charging.system .... hence.my plan.to manage.the battery and.plug.in.the car. It.is a.stupid.design that.Will not.keep.the battery at.75percent at least. I am a firmware software engineer.with many years.of.experience .... hey bmw it.isn't.serving your.customers.well!

lanbrown 05-19-2015 12:39 AM

BMW is not alone is battery issues though, other manufacturers have issues as well. They are putting more and more electronics in but the charging system hasn't really changed. This causes issues. Did BMW make some poor decisions that other companies didn't make? Sure, but they also made some decisions that are better than what others have done.

There was talk of 42-volt electrical systems in the 90's. Those obviously never materialized. in 2011 the Germans manufacturers agreed upon a 48 volt system.

A few things BMW should have done for N63 based vehicles. When you pushed the park button, the alternator should have engaged (unless that battery was already at 100%.) While a second or three would not do much for the battery system, a bit of power would have gone into it. Next, they should have activated the cooling fans to help draw air through the radiator and expel hot air out from the engine bay compartment. This should allow the cooling system that runs after the engine is turned off to run less; how much is debatable but every bit helps.

To help cool the turbos on the Ford Ecoboost 3.5l V6; after the engine is off, cooler coolant is automatically circulated through the turbo because of their setup. BMW is using electrical pumps to do it. I'm sure the BMW method is more effective at removing heat, but it is at the expense of the electrical system.

koolkat1973 05-19-2015 04:09 PM

I went ahead and bought another brand new battery today from BMW. Hopefully - the Autocraft battery was the culprit even though AAP technician told me battery was good.

Ron07x5 05-19-2015 04:30 PM

your battery can't deliver the electrons -- no charge held?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by koolkat1973 (Post 1038134)
So I repeat the entire process of locking the door, waited, then unlocked the door and the same thing happend. Voltmeter reading went from 12.4V to 9.1V within 30 seconds to minute after unlocking the car. Is this a sympton of a bad battery? I'm clueless at this point what the issue would be and how a battery can go from 12.4V to 9.2V within a minute. Please help.
Thank you.
Kiet

You need a means of measuring the current (amps) draw when the voltage takes the plunge! Guessing ...
Your battery has NO stored-reserve to give so when you unlock the car ... the car systems power up and there isn't enough "juice to give"? 9/2v and everybody would be flaky! So you battery has no power reserve. Either the battery isn't charged or it can't hold a charge anymore?

What does the autoparts store think of the battery now? Do they think it is fully charged, can they tell? My guess is another fully charged battery and everything works great.

My guess is you do not drive many miles and the miles you drive are flat ... so little coasting to charge the battery.

Anyway another new charged battery and it will be fine for about as long. Could be the battery wasn't introduced-setup correctly to the X5? Could be a bad battery from the beginning but I doubt that.

Ron07x5 05-19-2015 04:38 PM

Answer these questions please!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by koolkat1973 (Post 1038485)
I went ahead and bought another brand new battery today from BMW. Hopefully - the Autocraft battery was the culprit even though AAP technician told me battery was good.

So now it will work fine for some months, the question is how will it be in 6 months?

Answer these questions ...

1. How many miles a week do you drive?
2. Are a lot of these miles at night?
3. Are the roads flat or nearly so where you live.

Reasoning for questions ...

I repeat the car ONLY recharges the battery when coasting and that happens only lot when going down hills.
Drivng a car at night means you have the lights on ... lights use more power!
If you drive few miles from home to wherever you use a lot of juice powering up and starting the car and when you don't drive far ... enough coast-charging doesn't occur.

Note the voltage reading on the battery when you first install a fully charged battery (write it down) ... not how it drops a little lower every week?

lanbrown 05-19-2015 05:03 PM

That is not correct in that the car only charges when coasting. The system charges the battery but will decouple the alternator from the engine under acceleration or when the battery reaches 80%. If you are braking, coasting, etc. if the battery is not at 100%, it will then couple the alternator back into play.

Watch the video:
BMW EfficientDynamics : Brake Energy Regeneration

The bigger issue is that the battery is never getting fully charged. Short trips do not replace the amount of energy consumed by starting the vehicle. If you do a lot of short trips, BMW recommends that you either buy a battery charger or go for a long drive. If the alternator only worked when braking or coasting, then why would a long drive help? You could drive until you ran out of fuel and no power would have been put into the battery. The N63 issue is a little different. You have that the battery will probably only see 80% charge, but when you turn the engine off you still have the cooling system operating. Keep in mind that many manufacturers use a mechanically driven water pump; BMW is using electric. So how much energy is being used for the pump to run and how long is it running after the vehicle is off? You also have that after you open a door and get out, if you don't lock the vehicle, the radio is still operating. Once again, consuming power. Pathway lighting is also running. Then you have the normal items that are always drawing power; comfort access/remote receiver, etc. So even if the alternator only charges to 80%, you need to drive far enough to let the alternator charge the battery to 80%. If you only get it to say 75% on day 1, then 70% on day 2, then 65% on day three. You are not driving far enough to actually help. If you make a 5 mile trip and there were four stops, how could you ever actually charge the battery up? Especially if the cooling system is running the entire time.

Ford uses a different system so that a turbo timer isn't required. BMW doesn't use the same system as Ford but once again, they didn't want to use a turbo timer. Ford has battery issues of its own, it just may not to be the degree of BMW. Ford also isn't using electric water pumps, etc. A larger alternator might be beneficial for BMW to use. This way shorter trips when the battery is below 80% it can provide more power to charge the battery.


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