TPM Malfunction this morning
 

Hello all,

This morning I was driving to have the front brakes done and 5 miles before my arrival the TPM Malfunction light came on. The system was reset on the way home and seems like it worked but I just got a call from my wife that it just came on again. 2011 50i xdrive with runflats. We had some serious temps out there(110+ F) and I wonder if that has anything to do with it. I don't have a flat as the Indy shop checked the tire pressures and TPM Malfunction is directly related to the sensors... so not sure what to think before I call BMW. Any ideas?

Thanks.

It is probably a battery in some of the sensors going weak. unfortunately on E70 there is no recognition of the location of each sensor, the system needs to receive 4 signals and is good. Once one of the signals is lost the malfunction message comes up. i had an intermittent problem like that and it took me months to figure out which sensor is bad.

Appreciate the response bawareca. I will have to make sure that my tire pressures are good and see if the problem comes back again. It appears that the TPM message including the tire hazard icon went away after she stopped for gas at Costco. Strange....

Malfunction message has nothing to do with the pressures. Sometimes when you stop the signal of the troubled sensor is found again and the message may not come back for a long time. It is mostly random as per my experience.

About temperatures; the relationship is PV=nRT, the Ideal Gas Law, and T is absolute temperature, usually in °Kelvin where STP room temperature is about 300°K.

Pressure changes due to temperature changes, all else equal, are proportional to changes on that scale.

This has been discussed before, most E70 do show each tire status individually.

If you go to Pep Boys they have a device that can check the TPMS. It will tell you the status of the sensor and the battery charge.

When I asked them they checked them for free. No need to remove tires wheels or anything.

Will definitely do that today.

I am speechless about this. My wife's non-nav Z4 shows which tire is low, but my X5 doesnt :confused: I would like to meet the smart ass inventor of this :stickpoke

There are two systems, Tire Pressure Monitoring - TPM - and Flat Tire Monitoring - FTM.

TPM uses a signal from the tire mounted pressure monitor sender. Quoting from my X5 manual dated 2011: page 97 "Status indicator on the Control Display [ ... ] One wheel is yellow A flat tire or major drop in inflation pressure in the indicated tire. All wheels are yellow > A flat tire or major drop in inflation pressure in several tires.[my emphasis]"

TPM is Federally mandated.

FTM Flat Tire Monitor (page 94) "The concept [ ... ] It detects a pressure loss in a tire by comparing the rotational speeds of the individual wheels while moving."

At least my X5 has sensor in the wheels, which means it is TPM and not FTM. BUT, it doesnt have antenna for each wheel sensor. As long it have received signals from 4 wheel sensors it is satisfied. It doesnt know from which wheel each signal comes. It tells me if there is a pressure loss, but doesnt specify which wheel and the actual pressure and temp. This is like to to go to Rome and not see the Pope :yikes:

Unlikely. Page 27, "These sensors monitor actual pressure and send this information to a module via multiple anntenae." (https://drive.google.com/folderview?...&usp=drive_web)

ETA: Passive transmitters are very low powered with low range.

Well, mine never showed a malfunction since the day I posted. Knock on wood...

Did you mean that somewhere there is a menu and i cannot find it? Or you just didnt see this kind of cheapo system yet? I also thought it will be way out of the BMW style for them to make it this way, but they did.

- intermittent error like this does seem to be battery related... TPM in one or more of the wheels are going out. I replaced all 4 with new as it's going to happen anyway, at the same time I got new rubber. Better than having to break the bead again to replace another TPM.

- Our X (at least the '08s) did not indicate which specific tire.

Ok, looks like the "new" system is supposed to recognize each wheel individually, but it has never worked for me. Since I have the car for 2 years, the TPM has been working, but and sending a proper signalization when a tire is deflated. But wheels positions were never recognized and i couldnt diagnose which sensor was not working intermittently. For the last few weeks i have installed a rear right wheel from my parts car and when my rear left deflates slightly i get message "Rear right tire low" :dunno:


http://i1362.photobucket.com/albums/...ps4hgxeu6s.jpg

The system in my 2011 X5 is not much more advanced than the RDC in my 2001 M5. Sure, the X5 has a pretty screen to look at if you have Navigation system but there's no interface and really no information displayed except that the system is 'OK.' That's about as much information I get with my M5 except for the pretty screen. You'd think 10 years of technological advances, a pressure sensor in each wheel and a 9" monitor would actually add something.

Finally Autel TPMS401 sensor reader could be found for under $100 and it is worth every cent of it. Traced my intermittent working sensor for 1 trip, after struggling for 1 year.

Autel MaxiTPMS TS401

http://www.autel.us/Products/ts401.htm

Thanks for the correction ;)
I also found they have universal TPMS sensors (obviously clone of the HUF ones) that are programmable for any car. Sensors are around $20-25 and the programmer ~$55. I plan to buy some and test them. You can directly clone any sensor with the serial #.

You're quite welcome.

Hmm, I wonder how universal those sensors are. I'm thinking adding tire pressure indication to vehicles that have no tire monitoring system or only a rudimentary one on wheels that may or may not have original provisions for a sensor. Be nice to do quick checks on vehicles in storage, too. If they're HUF, then they may not be that physically "universal." I think I'm ordering the TS401 anyway, though.

Here is the sensor with the programming device.
Autel TPMS Sensor Maxitpms Pad Programming Accessory Device MX Sensor 433MHz | eBay
Talking about retrofits, looks like that the X5 TPMS controller is pretty simple and doesnt require any additional equipment except the sensors. It is pretty cheap too. The only problem will be to "extract"/display the information.

I'm looking at just adding sensors and then using the TS401 to get pressures.

That would work. I will be getting the programming device anyway so if you need sensors programmed I can do it for you.

Seems like this is the best place to ask about the correct sensor for a MY 2010 10/2009 production E70. I understand there are two different sensors in use and they "changed" in 2010. I've got a set of winter tires with senders from a 2012 E70. I have not tried them yet with my 2010, but my expectation is they won't work. What is the correct sensor for me to install in these? I found these on Amazon - are they "the ones?" http://smile.amazon.com/dp/B00HEEXIKO

smile.amazon.com/dp/B00HEEXIKO

Search the part numbers on realoem.com and you will find the compatibility. If i were you, I would install 1 wheel, reset the system and see if it is going to work. All OEM tire sizes have the same outside diameter, so one different [OEM] wheel/tire will not damage anything or trigger the DSC.

Just got my TS401 and it is an awesome bit of kit. If I could get sensors that were compatible with all my wheels it would make taking routine pressures much quicker.

Look at MX-Sensor from Autel. I got a set, but I am still waiting for the programmer.
TS401 is a great tool, even more so considering the price i got it for ($99).

So will this actually work?

Most TPMS sensors do not report until they are in motion. Do the TPMS tools have the ability to wake up sensors that are in standby mode?

One another note for anyone getting any of the Autel TPMS tools, post some feedback about what tool you purchased and what you think about it overall.

Seems the TM601 is actually cheaper than the TM501. I like the option for keyfob testing in the 501/601 if it actually works.

There are different types of sensors that wake-up by rotation or pressure change. The Autel tool can wake them up easy.

I got the TS401 and like it so far. Tire pressure checks on the X5 take less than a minute and I don't even have to touch the vehicle. The TS401 does check key fob output.







Yes. For all, I can confirm that the TS401 works perfectly fine with the pressure sensors of an 8/2011 X5 xDrive35d.

Awesome news, thanks for the info on keyfob testing, this alone is worth the price of the tool.

To be clear, I'm not sure what the others do, but the TS401 just indicates that there is an output from the fob by way of a bar graph when ANY button is pressed. It's just a gross indicator of fob status.

Got my MAXITPMSPAD today. Looks like a nice piece of hardware. I trust the sensors too, but I am yet to install a few on my car. Did some testing with 2 "old" BMW sensors (less than 3 years old) and all appears to work fine. If someone needs replacement sensor from Autel feel free to contact me.

http://i1362.photobucket.com/albums/...pskuiamndu.jpg

http://i1362.photobucket.com/albums/...psr34gdmpp.jpg

http://i1362.photobucket.com/albums/...psbqwbbsyg.jpg

http://i1362.photobucket.com/albums/...psqlaxmela.jpg

http://i1362.photobucket.com/albums/...pspxpcf2fx.jpg

Anyone wanting a TS-401, $78.63 delivered, probably the best price I have found.

https://www.pricefalls.com/product/t...16tBoCmqHw_wcB

^^^ Great price.
So the Autel universal sensor is now installed for a week and works fine. Looks like my front right is on it's way out too, I will replace this one soon.
A few pictures from TS401.

http://i1362.photobucket.com/albums/...pspnazhrwg.jpg

http://i1362.photobucket.com/albums/...pspxopqoiu.jpg

http://i1362.photobucket.com/albums/...psdr89bpic.jpg

http://i1362.photobucket.com/albums/...psmnweczkw.jpg

http://i1362.photobucket.com/albums/...ps4sjwlaqm.jpg

My error keeps coming back now and then but goes away... what exactly is the fix?

Most probably low battery of a sensor and the control module is loosing connection from time to time. I have replaced front left, which was not waking-up at all, but now I get the warning very rare. As visible from the battery status front right is due for replacement too.

One question I have is will the X5 automatically figure out the sensor location or do the sensor locations have to be programmed in??

I rotated my non directional, staggered tires side to side due to some "Heel/Toe" wear on the front tires.

My TPMS had an error for a bit, but then cleared up on its own.

I need to use the TS401 to gather serials numbers and use my MaxiDAS, MODIS or Solus Ultra to verify the serial number/location.

Anyone know if the BMW system will automatically detect the TPM location on the car or do they always need to be "programmed"?

I grabbed one of the TS401 for the decent price and had it 2 days after I ordered it via PriceFall.

I also like the keyfob test function as well. It is "near field" but it works pretty good. The Energizer Keyfob testers at the local auto parts stores seem to be the best "Far Field" keyfob testers I have seen.

The sensors are not "registered" in BMWs (at least E models). I have a full size spare tire that I just install in any location and if it is not deflated I dont get error. When you rotate the tires you may want to go to the "Reset" routine so the TPMS will relearn the positions of the sensors.

After I rotated the tires I had a TPMS warning. I did not bother to research what to do, but based on my E46 and E39, I just pushed and held the TPMS button and it cleared the error after some driving.

I need to see if how the sensors are recognized and if the wheel location matches or if they are off from where I had the wheels previously.

Well, as you know, the E39 RDC doesn't know positions and doesn't even have pressure sensors. It uses the ABS wheel speed sensors to detect a low tire.

I don't see how the E70 can know positions unless the TPMS receiver is highly directional and is able to detect the minute differences in the time it takes to receive individual signals. Maybe it does and I haven't had a low tire condition to know if the TPMS reports which specific tire or just tells you to check pressures similar to my E39.

It does the job but man, with a screen and individual sensors, I wish it was more feature-packed. With the TS401, I'm happy enough. It just makes taking pressures so much quicker. I'm going to find sensors for the Fikse wheels on my M5.

Yea, I know all about the E46/E39 Tire Pressure Monitor where is uses the wheel speed sensors to note a change in the overall tire diameter if a tire looses pressure. It does not work well with low profile tires at all due to the small change in the overall diameter and the shorter/stiffer sidewalls.

The E70 unfortunately does not display the pressures in the iDrive display or at least the CCC system does not unless there was a software update for the system. I have a friend that has a E60 528 with the CIC iDrive system and I recall it displays the tire pressures.

I do know with one of my more advanced SnapOn or Autel Pro scan tools they would read the TPMS sensors and display pressures. My 2005 GMC truck can display the tire pressures in the dash display, I can monitor the pressures while driving if needed. This is a nice feature that I used once in my GMC when I hit/ran over something on the highway. I quickly pulled up the tire pressures and watched them closely for the next 30 minutes to make sure I do not even have a slow leak.

I will try to figure out today if the E70 actually can determine the wheel sensor position automatically and I will report back.

I will be able to tell very quickly based on the assigned serial numbers to each wheel position.

Using my Autel TS401 to read all the TPMS sensors and my Autel MaxiDAS to verify the sensor/wheel locations, I have determined that on the E70, the system will automatically relearn the TPMS sensor locations correctly if the tire/wheel position is changed when you press the TPMS button to actually start the relearning process. You will have to drive the car about 300+ feet for this relearn to occur. Unclear if you replace a sensor if the system will automatically update the sensor ID as well? I have not had the need to do this yet.

I am not sure what happens if you install a TPMS sensor in the spare tire how the system will react, but for those of us that actually have a spare tire option, buying a Autel sensor, programming it and installing it in the spare tire location this may be an option. I recall seeing 5 positions listed on my Autel and SnapOn tools. It would also even make checking of the spare tire pressure with a tool like the TS401 very quick and easy. This assumes the Autel sensors can easily fit the steel wheels.

The TS401 is a very good deal at under $80 if you can get one at this price. Pricefalls listed around 250 units available at that price?? I was fortune enough to get mine at my front door for $78.63.

With the ability to quickly check tire pressures without taking valve stem caps off, ability to read the TPMS sensor ID and battery condition, ability to troubleshoot TPMS sensors and the ability to actually test keyfobs I think under $80 is a steal of a deal.

If anyone finds a decent, lower cost add on TPMS receiver and/or a complete system, it would be interesting to see how much an add on would cost. I recall Bosch or someone had a system I heard about, but I have not researched this.

As I wrote, when I put my full size spare tire with OEM sensor it is accepted immediately without resetting the system.
The TPMS module should be able to determine spare tire sensor as it is not rotating and the signal strength never changes.

I have some left over sensors from my GMC truck.

I will check the frequency and see if it registers, then I may install it in my spare.

Too bad iDrive CCC does not display tire pressures, just Green and other colors as I recall.

Sensors from another brand will not work. Even if they have the same manufacturer and frequency there is a range of IDs that will match a given brand.
Now when i think about it, because the spare tire doesnt rotate, the sensor will be at sleep at all times except when there is a pressure loss.

But I can see in the case where many spare tires are installed with the valve stem inaccessible, the TS401 could possibly be used to even manually check the tire pressure quickly and easily.

I will play around with the sensors and see what if anything I can do to allow the TS410 to read the TPM from the rear side of the wheel. May need to try and add a wire to the valve stem or have the tire marked where the sensor is located.

Yeah, I don't know how close the TS401 has to be to the sensor. I just touch the cap. I stack my winter tires and to be able to check pressures without moving or even touching them is great. When they're close together you just have to make sure you get four separate IDs.

You mentioned a TPMS button. Is that in your E70? To initialize or set mine, I have to go through the iDrive menu. I have CIC Navigation and pressure or temperature is not displayed. I don't think it was until NBT that it was displayed.

What happens when a low tire condition exists on a LCI (CIC Nav) E70?

P.S.: I know you know the E39 well from m5board.

Actually the first TPMS systems in 3,5,6 and 7 series were displaying press and temp for each tire. When I have pressure loss I get "FLAT TIRE" sign, and recently it says "REAR RIGHT FLAT" regardless it is rear left. After initializing all sensors I need to check if TPMS will determine the correct position of the deflated tire.
RESET button is in the Idrive menu.

Yea the "Reset Button" comment was a bit generic. I was probably thinking about my E46 and E39, but I also was using my Autel MaxiDAS yesterday when I "pressed the Reset button" on the MaxiDAS screen.

I forgot that the reset button is actually in the iDrive menu because I only used it once when I rotated my wheels and I was actually at a traffic light scrambling in the iDrive menu trying to find the TPMS Reset before I was jumping on the highway.

I can confirm that at least when I rotated my wheels/tires, the TPMS light came on and I Reset the TPMS system via iDrive and it did properly recognize the wheel positions as confirmed using my TS401 to gather the TPMS sensor serial numbers and using my MaxiDAS to confirm what TPMS was assigned to what wheel position.

Without the TS401 or some other tool to confirm the what sensor position, I could not have easily confirmed that the E70 could automatically learn the wheel positions.

I belive my friends E60 528xi displays tire pressures in the CIC but I could be wrong.

E60s should have full display of the information when equipped with TPMS and not a FTM.
The wheel recognition could be easily confirmed by deflating one tire and check if the TPMS will recognize it.

Didnt want to start a new thread so i'll ask here.
Got a set of 214s from a 2008 x5 (i think) and put them on my 2011 x5.
Did the frequencies change in 2011 or is it all the same? I got a TPS malfunction after few days of having them on. Tire pressures are all correct. Could be battery but i wasnt sure about the different years.

Anyone know?

When I had the new tires put on mine, I had them replace all the batteries just because I didnt want to deal with these very issues. Thatd be a good place to start.

It will be either immediate malfunction or not at all, so i guess your problem is not sensor incompatibility.

Sorry, but the sensors are sealed and batteries are not replaceable. If a dealer charged you less than ~$800-1000 for "battery replacement" they stole your money.

Upon checking my receipt, the Bridgestone place changed only 2 sensors and not the batteries....my mistake.

:thumbup:

Again, for anyone having problems with the TPMS, I use universla programmable MX sensor with success. Cannot beat the price @~$100 for a set of 4. Needs a programmer too,~$50, but still great deal.

I have oem used sensors from another 2011 x5 so i may just have them put in when i go for an alignment and to get the new setup balanced.

My wife's 35d has received this message now 3-4 times. After reading through 6 pages it sounds like:

- Low tire pressure
- Battery strength in tire sensors
- Faulty sensor
- Faulty TPMS Module (or it's loose)
- Moisture/Corrosion in the area where the module sits or loose wiring

We will be swapping in new tires soon, so I will most likely bite the bullet and buy (4) new TPMS Sensors for each wheel/tire as well. Hoping that cures the issue.

That worked for me. This was 5+ years into the service life of the TPM's...
There is another thread (or two) on here that talks about this error. On one I explained how mine was coming up with this message (and annoying gongs, blinking dash lights) all the time so I simply went under the rear and unplugged the little module and set it on my work bench. Then, the error only comes on at startup, and once it goes away, you don't have to be annoyed with it continually.
I replaced the module the day before I got new tires, and had new sensors put in at that time, and problem solved.

TPS Cracked
 

I was getting the annoying (by design I suppose) gong about TPS manfunction. Couldnt figure out which sensor may have been the culprit. I found this at LR position. Could that crack have been the cause of my issue? The issue went away, but I did change all 4.

... and oh BTW these are the units I used and they hooked up to vehicle w/out the need for any special tooling

Absolutely could be the culprit. Looks like physical damage during tire servicing.

FWIW- cracks in the potting of electrical components, coils, wiring, is a common sign of failure. Especially with sensors and pickups, a crack in a coil can change the electromagnetic field, leading to poor or noisey sensing. Things like camshaft sensors, crank sensors.

For the adventurous and curious, some RDCs can actually be SUCCESSFULLY repaired.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Vu7GTFcZjU

Thanks... but if it occurred during tire servicing I have no one to blame but myself. We (my son and myself) patched hole way back in December. That was the last time I think that tire was serviced.

Are you feeling adventurous? Give me an address and I'll send all 4 of them to ya...

Well it could have been worse. While mounting a large rear sportbike tire, my tire iron slipped when the tire popped on and took a gouge out of the middle my forehead. I had to go to the ER. :yikes:
To boot, I was using those nylon rim protectors to pry my bars on, and when the iron slipped the protector went INSIDE the (now mounted) tire. So when I got home from the ER, I got to UNmount the new tire, remove the protector, and REmount the same tire again. :rolleyes:
For some reason my wife has never let me live this one down.