Is it worth keeping my X5?
 

I've got a 2008 3.0d X5 which has done 93000 miles. I've had it for a few years now and it's never gone without anything but it's starting to develop a number of issues:
1. EGR value and pressure sensor need replacing
2. Turbo is whining at low speeds - possibly needs replacing?
3. Lower control arms need replacing.
4. Comfort seat base has too much play and needs replacing.
5. Transmission fluid needs changing.
6. Oil sensor needs replacing

I also hear rumours the DPF can need replacing around 100k too.

Do I spend the £3-5k resolving the issues and look to run it for another few years or put that money towards buying a new X5?

Ideally I'd like to fix it and keep it but I don't want throw good money after bad keeping it on the road.

What do you guys think?

Id put the $ into maintaining this car. Hypothetically 3-5k and you will get 2 more years..youd spend FAR more on 2 years of car payments.

Turbo likely fine, look for air leaks...might be repalted to EGR and pressure sensor codes 9did someone actually diagnose these or just guesses based on codes?)

Control arm is probably just a $60 bushing, whole arm can be replaced the next time.

I just went through this myself. My 2009 35d has 96k on the clock and had some emissions and check engine light issues.

I was ready to call it a day and put in a order for a new. 2016 35d .... Until i finally got around to driving one ;-)

I hated the new steering and the overall ride. In order to get the equivalent of what i have now, i would need to spend $80K and even then i still hated the vaugue steering and overally complicated ride settings.

I ended up deciding to keep my current x5 going simply because i liked it better than the new x5s .. And saving myself a boat load of money whilst im at it.

The emission and check engine light issues were relatively minor, ... And under $300 to fix.

I'm kind of at the same point. My '08 is just shy of 90k. I've had to shell out a few thousand since 50k miles to replace most of the cooling system and a head gasket. Got me thinking about selling it and buying a new model to avoid future repairs. But like the poster above, then I drove a few. Nothing all that special, steering a little less substantial feeling, and interior feels almost identical. Combine that with the more minivan-ish looks, and I'll stick with my '08 for a few more years. I love the way it drives and looks.

Yes handing over cash to your mechanic does sting a little. But even if you spend 1k-2k/year on maintenance...you're still miles ahead of what you'd spend on a new vehicle. And if you can do some of the basic maintenance yourself...

I used to have a gas guzzler ford exploder. However I had no payment. Accounting for the no monthly payment and liability only insurance it worked out that I got an effective 80mpg not the actual 15. It takes a LOT of repairs to make up for a payment. I bought two old (01) x5s this year and paid cash so again no payment. Our "payments" are in the form of $100-200/mo between the two in random broken parts (window wiper arm, cam shaft sensor, door latch). Since I can DIY like nobody's biz they are perfect. I can't imagine driving a non x5 now so am always keeping eye open for a replacement in the case mine gets totaled in a crash.


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Bout to spend 2500-3500K to bring my 2005 4.4 Back up to snuff.
At 115,000 it's time to get a handle on lots of small stuff before they
gets out of hand. But I set aside the coins to make it happen.

Looking at a new one with all my decided bells and whistles will set me back $75,000.
So in my view it only makes sense to try to keep it. The decision as to weather to
put money into it is a personal one based on what I have compared to what I
would get buying new. You decide.

sometimes it kind of works the same way. u can try to sell the car, but get 3-5k less than what it worth because it needs repairs

A lot of those are maintenance items though. I've done my lower control arms already, along with the boost pressure sensor, the transmission drain and fill, both differentials and transfer case. Its just par for the course if you want long term reliability. (no major engine or transmission failure).

Sensors wearing out are a part of life, I've had to change the DEF injector, the glowplug control module, and I'm only at 80k miles

Thanks for all your comments guys. To bring this full circle - I debated trading in my X5 for a newer model but couldn't justify the extra. I've bitten the bullet and instructed BMW to undertake all the required work, excluding the transmission drain. Should have the car back in a few days and I should hopefully have a good few years more motoring.

I'm looking at taking the car to ZF in Germany to change the transmission fluid.

Why going to Germany?Cannot be done in UK?

Keep it! I would rather have repair bills than another note. I am going to try to squeeze 300,000 out of mine. I am at 89,9** right now.

I definitely agree. Though 300,000 seems a little iffy to me. I'd think you'd be looking at pretty major repair bills after 200k.

I am sure you are right about that. I am going to hold on for as long as I can or deem feasible.

This is just an opinion based on having 6-7 bmw's over the last 15 years, but imo BMW quality has gone down hill. Making it worse, they are increasingly utilizing proprietary software that makes ownership for do it yourselfers more and more difficult. They are becoming a "lease it and walk away" brand to me.

Specifically, the e70 I've owned has been one of the worst in terms of stupid issues and quality problems. In reality, as a faithful BMW supporter for years, I may be coming to the end of my relationship with the brand.

Case in point, as one example, the e70 I have had catastrophic engine seal leaks at 55k miles, 5k after warranty, and 2 months or so. Suddenly Leaving puddles of oil everywhere. After 15 years of ownership, bmw na and the dealships position was " that's normal on the x5". As bizzare as the problem was, the response was worse in my opinion.

Among my family, we have a small fleet of x5's and x3's, so I get lots of data points. Examples, the pano roof on every one has failed. We've all had coolant overflow tanks crack. Door handle issues, radio and electronic gremlins, the list is way too long, and we all end up with the same problems. Imo, that's a clear sign of bad design and/or quality when the same problems are happening over and over. And many of these are components that have been around since cars were first made! I mean, multiple door handle failures? Hood failures with no safety release designed? Come on....

I hope you have great luck with yours and it lasts years to come. But unfortunately, my answer would have been its not worth keeping, problems are too likely on the horizon.

^ Hard to disagree.

At some point the pain becomes too great. My M5 has 202k, and I fear sometime in the next 100k I too will have to say goodbye.

But jokes aside, your sentiments are correct. The real question though, is there another marque where these issues do not exist? While 'Japanese' seems the safe answer, these software and component issues exist there too.

It's sad for me to say, because I've really loved the brand for a long time and still do enjoy the driving experience BUT, I've owned other brands as well over the same timeframe and the extent of the problems do not exist in my experience. The BMW's have easily had the largest and most frequent issues. More frightening, they are all having the same repetitive issues with similar components across the families cars.

And no, in my experience, many of the other brands do not have the same level of proprietary software "overlord" control. I mean, I can't change the battery without registration ...... really? I mean, really? I can't change a broken radio amp without computer "registration"....really? I mean, really? Come on BMW. And the Indy mechanic I have used at times when I can't do something is even complaining, saying he can't work on models after a certain year because he can't justify the $80,000 BMW wants for the software.

Look, If you're comparing Mercedes or Audi, then yeah, maybe the same nonsense exists. But the Chevys and jeeps and toyotas I've dealt with are not remotely in the same category for proprietary nonsense. And frankly, don't seem to have remotely the same level of issues.

And for those who want to drink the BMW marketing cool-aid, and want to tell me how the ultimate driving experience has "sophisticated and special" parts that only BMW should touch, or may be so advanced it causes some degree of failure to be acceptable, Don't bother. I'm an engineer, I've had all my cars apart, and love to work on them. But it also means I know that under the roundel lies nothing but a car with typical "car" components. There's nothing special underneath your bodywork, but if it makes you feel good to think there is, go ahead. But it's nonsense. These failures are not acceptable and are indicative or poor design, manufacturing, and/or quality control. It's really that simple.

It's not that much better on the Japanese front. My 4Runner has had quite a few issues with it, the most major being the differential pinion bearing crush sleeve crushing a bit more and killing the pinion bearing. This is a common issues, and stems from Toyota saving a few bucks by using a thin crush sleeve instead of the solid pinion bearing spacer. The driver's seat only has a few motors that still work on it, things rattle all over it, and I have a rear axle creak that I just cannot track down.

These really aren't uncommon issues (in fact, the 4WD transfer cases seem so unreliable that's about all you see on 4Runner forums!), but the guys on Toyota forums have drank the Kool-Aid in a big way, and still proclaim their vehicles as super reliable. Nevermind that about half the production run of the 4th generation had MAJOR headgasket issues - like 40%+ failure rates. The guys that pay $3-4k for that fix still proclaim them as a reliable truck, and a headgasket repair at 90k miles is "normal maintenance." HAH! :bustingup


I do think BMW under engineers some components for no real benefit, but I blame that on German engineers generally not being willing to admit when they really screw up. It's been a common theme in my engineering career. Thankfully most issues are "relatively" minor, but definitely annoying.

But respectfully, that's one car model. I've had a cross section of BMW models that are all having issues, not just one model with one problem. And frankly, to say the problems are minor is just not accurate. Prior to the mid 2000's, the level of repliability was acceptable with all the BMW's I had. After that time, it's been a completely different ownership experience on all of them.

I had to do a complete engine rebuild at 55k miles on an x5 because multiple engine seals failed. BMW Claimed this was normal. Repair cost $5k at the dealer

The I drive system went on another at about 65k, car was completely unusable. Repair $3-4K

The pano roof broke on all x3's and the x5. The cost to repair each one at an INDY shop, $2k each and he only did it for me because he knows me, otherwise he tells people to go to the dealer for that one because it's a pain. Not to mention, that failure caused the amp to get flooded and short for the radio. Repair for that was $500-$1000 and it required the dealer to "register" the new amp, even though it was installed. You have to fix the issue, as the cars begin to flood if you don't in the rain.

One x5 had the complete 4x4 meltdown. Again, thousands in repairs, and it returned a second time.

Anyone remember the dreaded x3 transmission problems in 2007? The non-shifting transmission that was "operating accordingly design" when you spoke with BMW but was getting drivers close to killed trying to merge into traffic?

Recent hood failure took 15 hours to resolve, dealership wanted to charge for 1/2-1 day just to open it.

I'm sorry, the problems are NOT trivial, they are not annoyances, they are complete failures and expensive repairs.

Yes, cars break and have failures. But The small fleet of BMW's my family currently owns has broken more often then any other brand, with repairs that have cost multiples of other brands as well due to proprietary crap and software on the BMW side, or just plain nonsensical pricing on parts or labor.

In my opinion, BMW now has the koolaid drinkers if we think any of these is even remotely acceptable. Any there always does seem to be a few members that will jump to "the defense of the brand". Like I said, I did love the cars and the driving experience. My ownership experience has soured over the course of the last 5-8 years though, and my time owning any of their products is likely coming to an end.

These level of issues are not normal nor acceptable. Worse in my opinion, BMW's lack of ownership of the problems and their unwillingness to help customers when their design or quality is at issue is reprehensible. For example, we ALL know that pano roof is a defective design and has been for years. Flooded cars, damaged interiors and electronics. Yet, BMW still maintains there's no issue and will not help any customer with problems the moment your warranty has expired, even when 50% of the owners are having the same problems.

That's a company no longer deserving of my hard earned money. Certainly, everyone else is free to make their own priorities, but that shine has certainly dimmed for me.

My point is that all car makers are designing to a price point, and making decisions that are detrimental to the 2nd and 3rd owners.

BMW is not unique in this respect. And while I agree BMW does tend to go a little weak on some components that would cost mere pennies to beef up (door handles, sunroofs etc.), again, it's not unique to them.

It sounds like you've got a bit of sour grapes on your BMW ownership experience. Don't worry, it happens to all of us. I've taken a 5 year break on owning BMWs as a result (spent about $2.5k in PARTS just keeping an '03 540i going for a year, threw in the towel after that). But no sense in acting like you've discovered something magical.

If you don't like the upkeep, it makes a strong case for a good aftermarket warranty, as I believe they will usually pay themselves back on these vehicles over 4+ years. Otherwise, if you're paying BMW, or even indy prices, you'll likely cry uncle quickly due to the psychological car value vs. repair value difference.

I've pretty much resigned myself to a vary similar line of thinking. I currently own two BMWs in my garage (an old E46, and a newer (but still old) E70), and the E46 is not running due to coolant leaks. I have seriously sunk many hundreds of dollars into the cooling system parts on that thing (replacing everything to include the radiator) and every few thousand miles I find a new leak somewhere in the system. The car has a crapton of miles on it (approaching 200K) but I have gotten that many miles out of domestic cars, and never had any work to this extent performed on them. I mean, only BMW seems to have cars that owners recommend doing complete cooling system overhauls every 60,000 miles. That's ludicrous, and points to some serious engineering shortcomings on the designer's end. I almost don't even want to repair it, because I'm daily driving a domestic diesel truck (Ford) and have had no problems with it other than a sticky EGR valve that I repaired for a $10 gasket and o-ring kit.

I am a pretty competent garage mechanic with a hefty collection of specific tools for working on BMWs. But once a month, it seems, my wife calls/texts me about some new "noise" that her car makes, or some new glitch, or a weird driveability concern that creeps up. I have no issue with repairing my cars, since I enjoy that sort of thing, but the monthly expense of a new belt or pulley or alternator or leaking coolant hose or whatever gets tiresome. And every month, it seems, I'm dismantling the front of the car to get at something broken. I mean, every other flippin' car that I've owned, replacing a belt might mean pulling out an intake hose or removing a fan shroud and 20 total minutes of work. But on my 4.8? It involves removing the entire air intake system from the TB out, pulling the forward upper brace, and removing the cooling fan. All of this takes quite a long time to accomplish (by comparison), and I might be done in an hour or two. And now? I seem to be dealing with iDrive issues. God knows how much money that'll cost me. And I haven't even gotten into problems with valve seats or the high-dollar repairs that owning a 4.8 will get me.

I like getting my hands dirty, but the frustration level of working on these high-performance, poorly-engineered beasts (poorly-engineered, in that they don't care to build durable components) makes me never want to have one that is out of warranty. Buy it (or lease it), then trade it in when the warranty expires, and maybe some other poor schlub will buy it because the roundel sure does make them look cool.

I do love these cars, but have too agree with the above. I've owned a few domestics, and a few foreign cars now. This is the first car I've owned where it's just considered almost normal "maintenance" to replace virtually the entire cooling system by 100k miles. I don't see why they couldn't beef up the quality a bit on some of the more important components in the system. I can't even count all the water pump and radiator failures I've read on here.

We have similar opinions, skill sets, and backgrounds. Unfortunately, similar experiences as well. I agree with the comment about poorly engineered, there are parts of these cars that frankly are. Door handles, sunroofs, hood latches and the like should not fail with any regularity, much less the regularity commonly found here.

You said it well in my opinion:

"I like getting my hands dirty, but the frustration level of working on these high-performance, poorly-engineered beasts (poorly-engineered, in that they don't care to build durable components) makes me never want to have one that is out of warranty. Buy it (or lease it), then trade it in when the warranty expires"