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My Diesel Exhaust Fluid experience - 8/2011 X5 xDrive35d
I purchased my 2011 X5 xDrive35d 25 November 2014 with 72616 miles on it.
12/17/2014, 74124 miles: DEF No Start warning 12/17/2014, 74174: approximately 40 ozs added to the Active tank; the warning cleared after about 100 feet of leaving the parking spot 1/1/2015, 74552: Low DEF warning 1/1/2015, 74557: filled with remaining 1/2 gallon bottle of BMW DEF, ~20 ozs 1/2/2015, 74600: added ~one gallon to Active tank and 1/2 gallon to Passive tank 1/24/2015, 75213: added ~0.25 gallon to Active tank and 2.5 gallons to Passive tank; levels were visible in both fill openings 10/13/2015, 85219: Low DEF warning 10/16/2015, 85498: added one gallon to Active tank and four gallons to Passive tank I'm comfortable with the SCR system performance. I believe the literature states a nominal 10000 miles between warnings and I seem to be along that curve. Driving conditions over these nine months and 10000 miles included several months of very cold weather, a few minutes of cold idling in the morning, several weeks of commutes that were approximately 15 or 30 miles round trip an average of six days a week, some months of hot weather with identical commutes, some driving around town in all types of weather, some very short round trips of less than three miles and a few hours total of idling in very hot weather. |
The system takes 7.5 gallons to fill it all the way.
Chuck |
All of the documentation I've seen states just over 6 US gallons combined capacity. I guess the fill lines could take some more but . . .
On 10/16/2015, I could get no additional fluid in the tanks. I even tried again a few hours later to be sure. It was behaving the same as it did when I refilled the system on 1/24/2015. Based on my experience, I'm more apt to believe that 6 total gallons is closer to the actual capacity than the 7.5 that you have stated. That, or I'm missing capacity and I should have been able to drive a great deal more than the 10000 miles I did between the low level warnings. |
I've been putting in 2.5 gallons every 4000 to 600 miles in the passive tank. Never added anything to the active tank. It's as easy as adding windshield washer fluid. Never had a problem. Never had a warning,yet. System runs flawlessly.
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System description and volumes are here ...
https://drive.google.com/folderview?...&usp=drive_web
Advanced Diesel with Blue Performance, starting at about page 60, volumes at page 96 and 100. |
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Sorry, Did not want to start a new thread on DEF. Just got warning messages level 2 (200 miles to go) with no level 1 (999 miles to go). Plus the warning message...
"Incorrect diesel exhaust fluid added. Please note the remaining driving range! if driving range reaches 0 miles/ kilometers, engne start will not be possible. Have the system checked by the nearest BMW center". My initial guess was a low DEF level so I did a a DEF refill/top up. Both active and passive tanks drank around 17 liters (One 10 liter jug and 70% of another 10 liter jug of BMW AdBlue DEF). The warning messages did not disappear! :-( So I did 2 scans: Foxwell NT510 and Carly. I was able to get identical error messages which could not be erased/ cleared... 0041F9 DeNOx system, plausibility 00474C DeNOx system, warning and Abschaltszenario 004748 DeNOx system, warning and Abschaltszenario I did a quick research on this issue from various forums and found out that this might be a NOX sensor related issue and not a DEF level issue since the sensor inside the DEF tanks only measures DEF level and they do not determine whether the DEF is good or bad quality. I'm going to the a BMW certified shop this weekend to have this checked since I only have 188 Kilometers left. I'm just soliciting thoughts, information or comments you might have regarding my theory before I go to the shop. |
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1. NOX Concentration I (determination> 10 minutes driving!) 60.97 ppm 2. NOX Concentration II ( determination> 10 minutes driving!) -0.02 ppm 3. Status Signal NOX sensor I: Released NOX concentration can be read out 4. Status Signal NOX sensor II: 0 Does this actually mean that NOX sensor II is the culprit? Which one is sensor 2 and how do I locate this? Planning on doing more research on replacing the NOX sensor and hopeully I can DIY it...? Exciting! |
One sensor is pre-SCR and one is after so there should be a difference between 'sensor 1' and 'sensor 2'. I can look into this a little more as it's important to me also. I'll see if I can get Carly working. The Torque app might also display data like this.
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Thanks so much! I want to find out where to locate these 2 NOx sensors and the differentiation of NOx sensor I and II. Is NOx sensor 1 before catalytic or after and so on..? BTW, I have screenshots of what I got from Carly. Just having diffculty posting it here. Let me try again. From Carly... 0041 F9 DeNOx system, plausibility 00474C DeNOx system, warning and Abschaltszenario 004748 DeNOx system, warning and Abschaltszenario |
I would consult WDS and identify the wire colors to be sure. Check the ETK to see if they might have different part numbers. TIS might call them out as well. I'd guess the front one is #1 and the back is #2.
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Thanks!
Can you take a look at this photo and tell me which one - A or B is going towards the front of the vehicle? planning on doing a DIY replacing the 2 NOx sensors this coming weekend. Just wanted to make sure. https://photos.app.goo.gl/hYtfGMN4uzMHFFhu9 https://photos.app.goo.gl/hYtfGMN4uzMHFFhu9 Also what does these numbers mean on the scanner. Is -0.02 the bad NOx sensor? Been trying to search "NOx concentration determination" mean but cant find a definition... https://photos.app.goo.gl/xDaEfKmPFtGHrLnp9 |
Hello again, so here's how my problem progressed. WIshing I could get some help with this problem. Please note that we dont have any emission regulation where I am located hence I really find this issue a PITA :-( I wish I could delete the whole SCR thing (grrrr) but lets tackle that later on..
So a month ago, I got the 200 miles countdown and the incorrect fluid warning message. Refilling the DEF fluid didn't clear/solve the issue so I brought it to an indy BMW certified shop. They did the "process of elimination" methodology: started with draining the DEF tanks, cleaning them and checking the metering valves. Everything checked out ok. Then they went on to the NOX sensors and found NOX sensor #2 defective hence they replaced this. After replacing the NOX sensor #2. It seemed like they have eliminated everything related so I was instructed to run the X5 on a dyno for 1 hour continuously running at 70kph. They said the fault will clear out after I do this. So I did that today. UNFORTUNATELY, that did NOT reset the countdown and I am now down to 86 miles to complete shutdown. Of course I brought the X5 back to the shop. They said they will run some tests again and will keep me posted. That's where I am right now after more than 1 month of having the X5 in the shop (waiting for the flushing, cleaning and parts NOX sensor took 1 week to ship). Did you guys find anything wrong with the things that were done? Any step missing? Million dollar question is...I really want to delete the whole SCR thing because I dont need it. Is there a thread or DIY you can point to me so I can have this procedure done? I really dont have any use for the SCR because we do not have any regulations on emissions here? Any suggestion will be very much appreciated. TIA! |
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I thought I'd update you guys on what has happened after 11 months on this...
Oh by the way, no problem on legality, laws and rules on emission where I am from so no worries. Taking off from my last post March 2nd this year, they took down everything and found the DPF, exchange pipe the culprits and advised to replace these parts. Finally the parts arrive and just waiting for them to install. It's been 11 months now which is ofcourse also due to the pandemic thing. Hope you don't mind my questions to the group here... 1. Do you I really need to fix the original problem 1st BEFORE doing the SCR delete? Because I suggested a SCR delete initially and they said that the delete can't be done if they didn't resolve the original problem first - which is the 200MLS countdown thing. So fix this first before do the delete...something like that. 2. Will there be any computer ECU re-coding / encoding if a SCR delete kit is installed? Will the coding be a DIY or has to be done by an indy or dealer? 3. They also mentioned that I should've gotten the original OEM DEF Fluid when I first attempted to refill the DEF tanks because using other non OE brands has clogged up my system. Is this true? I thought DEF fluids are DEF fluids regardless of OE or non OE brands :-( I tried to get in touch with another indy mechanic who has a below standard shop but he was formerly a mechanic in BMW Germany and trained there for many years before deciding to come home and set up a BMW indy shop. He said that "there is a SCR delete kit that I can buy and he will install and re-program the computer then bypass the EGR as well". He will give me a quote on Monday. Does he make any sense or am I being taken for another loooong ride here? Is it as simple as that? Im hoping it is. Any thoughts will be greatly appreciated. Thanks. |
I use OEM DEF fluid, its already cheap. Never had any issues as well, I just filled up 2 bottles in the passive tank just because I know it's been close to 8k miles since last time i filled up. I bought the large OEM 5 gallon fluid, keep it in storage and 1 quart bottle with the top cut-off for when i need to refill
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There is no difference between OEM and any other DEF. None. BMW doesn't manufacture the product, they just sell under their brand. Walmart is usually the cheapest. Same with all of their products... BMW gin, anybody???
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Hello, you questions are on point!!! I have the same questions, since I just got the error yesterday! Did you ever get it resolved? Can you share! Thanks |
full metal was last seen 5 days after his post above...nothing since.
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Ok guys so here goes my update after almost 2 years my X5 has been in the shop. Sorry for the super delayed response.
All the parts that were bought and replaced to repair the SCR was not successful! The countdown still wouldn't disappear. So finally the shop owner got in touch with a shop in the US (they didn't tell me the name of the shop...maybe so that I won't find out what the real cost was). I was charged US$1,000 for the reprogramming of my ECU. My ECU was sent to the shop to be flushed and reprogrammed then shipped back and re-installed. The X is finally home after almost 2 years and is working perfectly...as of the moment. They got rid of the DPF system, unplugged all the wires connected to the tank and electronic components related to the SCR. The tanks are still there in place but they are not connected. So everything related to the SCR is now solved...after 2 years in the shop! :( Now on to the next issues....my parking brake actuator and my AC are not working grrrr. Seem to be a never ending battle with this X...maybe time to say bye bye :) Thanks again guys for all the sharing of thoughts and expertise. I hope this helps. Thanks! |
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