MY08 X5 3.0si Inpaload Error Reading
 

Hi -

I'm hoping someone on this board can help me troubleshoot an issue with MY08 3.0si. Last week, the CEL came on and my car would stutter a little beat. I could tell something was not right because when I press the gas pedal to accelerate, the car would not accelerate. It sputter for a bit but was still moving. Then by the time I pulled into my garage, the CEL went away and car is running fine again.

I pulled the codes from OBD and got the following error code: 2A82, 2A99, 29CF. Based on my research, these codes are related to the Vanos Solenoid. I'm thinking of replacing both Vanos Solenoid but I wanted to see if the error code comes back after clearing it. So far - it's been 3 days and the error code has not return.

I also did some monitoring of my car using INPALOAD to get the current status while driving. There are some abnormal readings but I'm not sure what they are. Hoping someone here knows how to interpret it.

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Thank you in advance.

Kiet

No disrespect to your using INPA, however, if the SES/CEL/MIL comes on, you are best to use a generic OBDII tool as it WILL display the OBDII codes that triggered the SES/CEL/MIL in Pxxxx format in plain English.

Suggest you consider the OBDFusion App with the proper interface, under $30 for both.

You will also be able to easily Log with the App as well.

Spannung Motortemperatur = engine temp voltage (probably V output of temp sens)
Spannung Kuehlmitteltemperatur Kuehlerausgang = coolant temp voltage at radiator exit (same as above, prob V readout from the temp sens)
Spannung SG-Innentemperatur = inside temp control unit voltage (i don't even really know what that means but as far as i could decypher SG stands for Steuergeraet, which translates as control unit)
Spannung Sekundaerluft = secondary air voltage
Motortemperatur = engine temp

from an engineering background i'd say that the integer values for those sensors is outside the pre-defined min/max bracket. everything really points to an electrical issue rather than engine problems. like the supply voltage for the sensor bus is too high, throwing readouts above the max value.

i could be wrong tho...

edit: looking at the actual values in your screen shots: yes, 105.48V is most definitely outside the range, lol. and since those values vary wildly from 0V to over 100V i'd say it's probably a shot control unit.

Thanks for the OBDFusion App recommendation. I will take a look at it. I have other cars as well so this may come in very handy.

Thank you very much for your input. My X5 appears to be driving fine at the moment even with these high abnormal readings. Looks like more than 1 sensor is giving bad voltage reading. Any idea what control unit I should be looking at. Thanks.

I would be using another tool to look at some of the values before I would be jumping on things.

But this being said, I would also check grounds, even the engine to body ground.

If there is something in error with the engine temperature, even the radiator outlet temperature, another tool that would read these values as Live/Realtime data other than INPA would be something wise to check these with. You could even use the Hidden OBC Menu to verify engine temperature.

Often too much stock is put into things like INPA, which leave a lot to be desired due to language, semantics and other things.

Something like the SAP error may in fact be normal as the SAP only runs for the first 90 seconds or so on cold start. So without being able to compare another car, it is hard to say is the SAP error a "real" error.

I'm wondering if this is a sympton of a coolant temperature sensor gone bad.

Doubt it as there are at least 2 different temperature values that "appear" to be in some "fault" state. But a tool that will read the temperature PID's from the DME will give you a very good idea if in fact there is a temperature out of range due to either a sensors or something like a water pump problem.

I assume this is the 6 cylinder with the electric water pump that are known to fail early??

Yes - this is 6 cylinder X5 and I've already replaced the water pump less than 2 years ago.

Hidden OBC menu is where I would head next unless you have other tools/software that can read these temps.

http://www.scoopz.com/m5board/E60_Hi...structions.pdf

Not sure what the 6 cylinder nominal temp should be, assume around 96C. I have a 4.8l and the nominal temp is supposed to be around 122C which is WAY too hot, I am running a 90C stat in the engine so it does not melt down.

Do not fall into the trap that just because the water pump was replaced 2 years ago it is still fine!! These pumps do not have a great track record.

You have to rule out all the obvious problems.

Also I recall that this engine/body may be one of the ones that has water leaks from the cowl that can corrode the injector wiring for a single cylinder.

Engine to body grounds on these can also be a problem.

the main issue really is the canbus wiring, it uses the same wires for power supply and data comms, so any general minor electrical fault can easily translate into a whole plethora of phantom symptoms as a knock-on effect. now i'm pretty sure that the ADC (analog/digital converter) is integral part of the DME but there's more than one unit at work, so i personally wouldn't know which one to look at. also jfoj is correct in pointing out that the issue may be external to the DME and the signal could be corrupted before it gets to the DME. having said that tho, this may explain faulty 13.5V readings as the car's electrics are actually producing that kind of voltage. the 86.5V at SG-Innentemp and 105.5V at the radiator output are way beyond what a car alternator can provide, apart from the fact that the vehicle would have gone up in flames by now. it's definitely worth having a good looksee to determine possible damage to the harness but my money is still on the DME.

Not sure this applies to all early E70's, however, my 2008 4.8l WILL NOT warn the driver of any sort of charging system problem. You can remove the alternator belt and get NO indication that the vehicle is not charging. You will only figure out the hard was as the battery Voltage drops and CAN bus modules have a hard time communicating and then start shutting down systems by load shedding. Nothing is broken on my E70, there is either software/firmware problem of the silly Germans just overlooked the basics of how important it is to warn the driver of a charging system problem.

The other issue that may be happening is with INPA there may be mathematical errors in the formulas or the decimal point placement.

Think about it, temperature circuits are all resistive using thermistors. There is a supervisor Voltage from the DME and it is probably 5 Volts. The OBDII standard is designed to allow for circuits to monitor for short to ground and short to power/12 Volts.

There is NO WAY any of the readings are going to register over the max charging Voltage. 86.51 Volts and 105.48 Volts is JUST NOT PLAUSIBLE!

So before you dive into wanting to replace modules and spend a lot of money, you need a few more points of reference.

ADCs work via integers. they interpret analogue input signals mostly as a proportional numerical value within a min/max bracket. not only are the readouts implausible, based on the physical constraints of the vehicle's electrical system (the only voltage exceeding alternator output is the ignition itself) they are improbable. unless someone rewired and rerouted the analogue signal wires to expose them to possible induction from the ignition system (again, improbable) the actual signal is misinterpreted. programming in the DME hasn't changed (presumably), it doesn't do so on its own. there are hardly any feasible ways for such voltages to sporadically (as opposed to system-wide) to occur, hence i presume the electronics are up the creek. the only two possibilities are: the voltage exists (and it really really shouldn't), or it doesn't and the inputs of the ADC have had it, which i've seen happen in many industrial applications in the past. i know i'm harping on about the expensive option here, hence i suggested giving the wiring a complete once-over to see if anything external has gone wrong. by all accounts, even if i'm right and it is the DME itself, something must have caused this since it's not a common problem for all vehicles with the same DME.

My point of view is this.

What you found monitoring with INPA should be "noted" but not acted on yet.

One very real possibility is there is nothing wrong with the temperatures but the actual INPA programming is itself the problem. I find software problems ALL the time with tools and such. So I will note things then cross check to confirm if there really is a problem using other tools.

This is why I want to start with a generic OBDII tool, the OBDII PID's are very well ironed out and tested tough usually by the auto manufacturers as they use the OBDII PID's even in the daily development and testing of the vehicle.

The OP needs to circle back around to the "actual" problem. The SES/CEL/MIL came on and the engine was running rough. With a generic OBDII tool Freeze Frame and OBDII codes should have been gathered first. I always Log the date and mileage along with all the Freeze Frame data. Then I decide if I want to clear the codes and move forward to see what, if any codes reappear. Since you have INPA, I would gather the data first with a generic OBDII tool, then I would likely use either INPA or a Pro level scan tool and dive deeper as needed.

Unfortunately SO MANY people discount a simple OBDII like OBDFusion as useless, when in fact it is a VERY powerful and useful tool. It is the FIRST thing I plug in if the SES/CEL/MIL comes on. Then I move on to other tools, I have MANY different tools that I use. I personally do not always like to use manufacturer based tools as there are often too many variables, trying to convert language, figuring out if the point of reference is "Half Empty" or "Half Full". I will use them, but they are the ABSOLUTE last tool I reach for.

I also do not personally trust the E70's ability to notify the driver of charging system problems. I have seen this first hand on my E70. Had a flaky Voltage regulator which I recently replaced and it resolved my charging problems, but I still run and UltraGauge for the moment because I have no way to know if a charging problem occurs.

I used the hidden menu to monitor my coolant temperature during my commute home from office. It appears the temperature ranged from 90 degree C to 103 degree C. That looks pretty normal to me.

How did you concluded that it was a flaky Voltage regulator? I had battery issues for the longest time last year and could never figured out what the issue was. My battery just would never be fully charged (battery was only 6 months old) at the time. It felt like i checked everything but all checks were good. I ended ditching the battery and buying another battery. It's been about 6 months since I got this battery but so far so good. I do remember trying to figure out how to determine if a voltage regulator was good or bad.

Watch the Charging Voltage.

But it would be easier to use the OBDFusion App to Log the data while you drive.

It is also wise to have this do Freeze Frame and Pxxxx code display.

$30 or less.

Android $3.99 App, interface around $12 for a total of about $16

http://www.amazon.com/Veepeak-Blueto...peak+bluetooth

iProducts $9.99 App, interface around $18 for a total of about $28

Amazon.com: Veepeak Mini WiFi OBD2 OBDII OBD II Scanner Scan Tool Adapter Check Engine Light Diagnostic Trouble Code Reader for iOS iPhone iPad and Android: Automotive

Thanks. I did purchase a scanner tool yesterday from Amazon so I will definitely check this out once I get the tool.

Well this was rather comical, kind of figured this out by sure accident. I was (and still am because there is NO indicator of a faulty charging system on my E70 what so ever) running an UltraGauge to monitor the coolant temp. I replaced the stock thermostat in my 4.8l which typically ran around 222-226F!!! and installed a 190F stat. The UltraGauge automatically sleeps or stands by when the vehicle shuts off. I then noticed at times the UltraGauge would not automatically start at times. Come to find out the alternator was intermittently not charging at all on cold starts.

But I also noticed that from time to time my high Voltage threshold alarm on the UltraGauge would be triggered. I think I ended up pushing the upper Voltage threshold to like 15.5 Volts. I was unsure if this was "normal" because it would just spike, but after the new regulator even the high Voltage spiking was cured as well. I do not think the upper Voltage alarm of 14.8 Volts I have set has been triggered since the new regulator was installed.

These vehicles need an AGM battery. The Voltage regulators seem to go around 8 years, or 80k miles, often not a hard failure but will be intermittent like mine. Proper battery programming/registration is needed as well.

Suggest you read this thread with more details - http://www.xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-foru...tem-issue.html

Hi Koolkat I have the EXACT same issue were you able to figure out what the issue is with this? thanks in advanced

Looking back at my documentation, it looked like I replaced the Fuel Vapor Leak Detection pump and it fixed my issue.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

wow Koolcat thanks so much for responding. I would never have thought this issue would be related to a Fuel Vapor Leak Detection pump I would think there would be some type of P0 engine code but since you have the exact same issue as what my inpa shows I'll give it a shot. Thanks!

Hold off on that. I just double checked my documentation again. the Fuel Vapor Leak Detection Pump was to fix code P2402 that I got from OBD Fusion App. Sorry for the confusion.

I'm not sure how I fixed the the original issue from this thread. My documentation just showed that I replaced the ignition coils and then cleared the code. But I"m not sure if that was the actual fix. Sorry.

Gotcha ya I thought there would be a code for a vapor leak but if you do figure it out feel free to reply on here thanks tho

Hi, have you had any recollection on how you resolved that issue where INPA was showing those crazy values? If you still have the car, does INPA still show those? I have the exact same issue as you. I was thinking that perhaps this is an INPA issue, since my operating temp is within spec, but I'd love to see what your experience was.

https://xoutpost.com/attachment.php?...1&d=1638713824

Hello,
did you ever figure out what was the cause of these abnormal readings?
I'm getting exactly the same readings similarly out of scale in INPA.