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Educate me (or talk me out of) the 35D...
Long story short, wife has a Jetta Sportwagen TDI - she loves the car and the mileage but we'll end up getting it bought back for about 5k more than we bought it for, or we have to wait until the EPA approves a "fix" for the first gen 2.0 TDI's -
Before anyone asks, yes we can drive it for the time being but if they don't have a fix before 2018 approved and have 85% of the cars "off the road or fixed" then I'm sure it will get dicey as part of the VW settlement with CARB and the EPA Nothing else from VW ticks all the boxes for us as the Touareg TDI's are all included as well in the recall, and I don't know if I want to deal with the headache of buying one used and waiting for a fix on them too. We'd sacrifice some mileage, but we have 2 decent sized dogs and may someday add a baby - and now that wife has driven a diesel she loves the torques. I followed the 10 page build thread and read about the vaccuum hoses being cooked around 50-60k - Other than that, any other 35D issues to worry about? I'd most likely be looking at a '13 as hopefully the E70 bugs were worked out by the last year, under 50k miles, CPO preferable but might buy an extended warranty if thats what we go with. I'm pretty handy and can DIY many jobs, tell me if I'm crazy or if it would be a good fit for us if we decided to let VW buy back her wagon - And, go! |
so you're looking for someone on here to collate all the info that's easily accessible by using the search function for this forum?
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First off, do some searching. That's been said. But I HATE guys who just say that, so I'll add my .02
Love the diesel X5. Lots of power, handles well, drive is what you'd expect with a BMW. It's not perfect, but I feel like that's more around what the EPA has forced on these guys and NOT a BMW thing. The only issues we've had have been diesel emissions related, you'll find threads about the faulty DEF tanks--get a clean CPO one and if it has issues they'll fix it, give you a loaner...not the end of the world. We have two boxers and the grate thing that goes across the back--they love the car and it fits them fine. If you have larger dogs (they're about 65lbs each) you'd maybe want larger but that's up to you. Great room either way. Get one highly optioned. We did and I'm glad we did. The options are a ton more new...but lose their value quickly used. We have every option but the rear DVD screen and it's nice stuff. If you do get a diesel, learn how to do some 'handy' stuff yourself. Like when the DEF needed filled I learned I can go to the truck stop and pump it right out of the truck stop DEF pump into the two tanks with zero issues and it costs $2.50 a gallon instead of the robbery BMW wants to charge you. Use a local shop for oil changes or if you're CPO plus the extended maintenance do that (obviously). Overall I'm very happy with the car and to date we haven't had any real issues, just funny check engine light stuff that the dealer fixed. All new part numbers and *knock on wood* they got the bugs worked out. I've heard they're extending the warranty on the emissions related stuff as well--EPA is obviously the 800lb gorilla here and a faulty DEF tank won't fly at any mileage. If it's required for the emissions to operate I've been told the EPA is talking 12 years unlimited mileage on all diesels and all manufacturers. We will see, but I think at the end of the day the emissions issues will be on BMW's shoulders like they are on VW etc. You're in a neat spot here--I'd for sure sell the car back as that's obviously a good deal. I saw a news report of scammers trying to buy cars (and dealers) on trade way low knowing they can get the full buyback $. I'd either make the dealer take it to the penny for the buyback or give it back. Then go drive everything used in your price range, lots of great mid-size suv options out there. We did the same and settled on the X5 but I'm in Denver and have a ski house so travel during the winter was a top priority. |
If I were you I would consider a 2014. The new model got an 8 speed transmission which works great. A 2013 is nearly identical to a 2010. I have a 2009 and all the trouble areas have were updated to current while under warranty (other than my crap gen 1 i-drive).
Definitely take the buy back. My brother has 2 TDIs he is turning in :). |
We did this exact replacement a couple of days ago. 2010 Audi A3 TDi replaced by a 2011 X5 3.5D and I only have positive things to say about the X5D. I went from a e53 3.0 to the Audi TDi a couple of years ago and did not like the lack of space but felt the economy of the TDi was worth the tradeoff. Then the whole dieselgate B.S. happened.
The real nail in the coffin was when the A3 decided to shit the bed with a HPFP failure. I am 1K miles over the extended warranty and VWoA said they will not be fixing this issue. I have to fix the bastard with my money before VW will take this P.O.S. back. I will never buy any VW product ever again. We went out tried several 3.5D and settled on one we liked. Both the wife and I were very surprised at the night and day difference between the e53 and the e70. I should have never strayed.. |
Went from an 06 M5 to the X5d and trust me, that's quite a swing. The X5d has been great. I have no regrets and I've already used the X5d for multiple towing tasks aside from the long mtn trips the wife and I do.
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^^^The HPFP is going to be covered now under the "fix" for 120k miles (along with basically everything but the transmission)- but you're right it is a ticking time bomb. The problem is whether VW can ever get EPA approval on the Gen 1 cars (which I doubt) - the first gen cars are the "worst" polluters of all and hardest to fix - Trust me I'd be fine with $7500 in my pocket and get the "fix" and then just reflash to Malone Stage 2 after leaving the dealer - but I just don't know if they will ever get approved. Buyback option you can get it bought back in a hurry - but if you elect for the "fix compensation" you don't get it until you bring your car to the dealer, and VW still has nothing approved yet. |
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Like I said I wouldn't even be considering the buyback normally, IF VW had something approved by the EPA for the people who want to keep their cars. Originally we just wanted to keep and drive it, but since the settlement has VW forced to get 85% compliance, I don't think we can just go on our merry way. Wife owes about 14k on the car which is great by most people's standards, with the buyback we'd be at $31k so having $17k in her pocket. If she gets whatever approved fix (if there ever is one) performed, they would pay us $7600 - However I say "if there is ever one" because I don't think its VW's priority to get something approved because they are already pissed at the EPA for finding their cheat - and they don't want to deal with warranty claims on fuel pumps, turbos, DPF's, etc because any fix will likely hamper mileage somewhat and also accelerate lifespan of emissions components. Back to the X5, the 2014's are out of our price range most likely and I'd rather go with the E70 which probably had its bugs worked out later in its life cycle with a '12 or '13 - than going with first model year of a new generation - My E53 is still going strong 13 YEARS LATER so I have no problems buying another BMW as I know how to keep them running tip top shape long term. With the color combo and mileage I'm looking at (Alpine White, under 60k miles) I'm getting around $35-38k which I still think is kinda high but I have a few months to decide. However, yes its a friggin mess - I have a feeling its going to really hurt VW as a brand - since the stop sale on TDI's there is literally nothing that VW makes that my wife would drive in the same price range - sure you can get a Golf Sportwagen 1.8T but if I'm going to sacrifice the mileage of the TDI I may as well get something bigger and with more options - plus it has a slushbox automatic (she has the Dual Clutch auto in her TDI now) What kind of mileage are you guys seeing with your 35D's? |
I just looked at a CPO 13 loaded,27K miles for asking price of 40k.Thats a 25k+ depreciation in 3.5 yrs.Now get this,it's quieter,trans feels better on take offs from stop than my 12 with 40k but not 10k$ better.However it seems to be a better deal than your finding,60k miles for 38$.I could have found a better deal but after 2 weeks of looking at x3's I bought the first x5 I seen.It being a diesel I said how bad could it be and its a hell of a lot more car that my wife's ,other car that I hate,RX350.Good luck with your mechanically incline abilities with this car.I hope it doesn't challenge me much! Thousand mile trip,25mpg,70-85 mph.Not bad for gettin it !
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We're mid 20s (25-27 if flat highway, 22-24 mountains) on the highway and 20-21 mixed (mostly around town). When I drive it to/from the office (surface streets) for a whole tank I'll end up with 18s which isn't too bad for a heavy SUV--plus diesel is cheap here. I had an Escalade before and good lord that pile of crap got like 10-11 around town.
Get a really clean '13 and toss a burger tuning JB Diesel chip in it for $200. It's plenty! |
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^^Exactly what I want almost for her - Style 214's and OEM RB's
Yes I was looking at JB Tuning or Malone Stage 1 - the mileage is good enough for a huge SUV - and yes I've decided to narrow my search to just the last model year Around 40k seems to be the going rate if you want super clean, low miles '13 well equipped with Sports Package - Just gotta weed out the ones with 3rd row but they are definitely out there - will keep you guys posted as its a couple months out from VW starting the buybacks but we should be able to swing a 35D.... |
3rd row is alright, i used it 2 times since owning the x5 for a year. 2 kids once and this past weekend i had 6 adults and bags for a weekend trip to Niagara Falls. Yo can fit an adult in the 3rd row if they sit sideways, otherwise no leg room.
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Just FYI I purchased mine out of state for $27k. It's pretty well loaded. The only things it doesn't have is heated rear seats, rear entertainment, 3rd row, adaptive drive and side cameras. Had 72k on it and was still under Extended warranty and maintenance plan. Brand new tires, tow package and the one option I think is a must have....comfort seats.
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Is there still an issue with the e70 air bags (Takata air bag recall)? I thought BMW was holding e70 X5s back from resell if turned in.
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Agree on the comfort seats. A month ago I did a solo, 3000 mile tow from Philly to Seattle in 6 days, about 500-600 miles/day. I was totally comfortable all day long the entire trip, only stopped twice a day for gas/food then the hotel. I have 2012 X535d (38K miles), not one hiccup the whole trip, fantastic vehicle. The diesel is a beast coming over the mountains even with a trailer. I averaged about 15mpg towing a 1200LB trailer at 65-80mph (Montana).
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As a reference point, in March I bought a private party 2013 X35d with 35K miles for $35K. Alpine White, Sport Package, 214's, comfort seats, comfort access, technology package (HUD and side view cameras) and running boards. Everything you are looking for but the 3rd row seat, which you will find is not a common option. 3rd row seats also have the rear air suspension which will eventually require maintenance due to pump failures or airbag leaks. So deals are out there, just be patient.
The car is great, and I really love the torque, fuel economy, and range. I get 21 MPG in mixed driving, and 26 MPG on long trips. I've just had a few CEL issues that the dealer has addressed under the 4/50 new vehicle warranty, but which would have been covered under the California 7/70 emissions warranty. Good Luck. |
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Can you find me one like yours LOL? Wife is on board with a less than 50k miles 2013 Alpine on Cinnamon, Sport Package, Sport Activity, Luxury Seating (not a must have but would be nice) with 214's and running boards - Now I just have to find one - We contemplated a new 2017 Golf Gas wagon with 4motion AWD, but I see it this way, thirst for premium at 30mpg with the 40 cent per gallon price hike above diesel, or 25mpg with the BMW driving experience. |
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Consider this one - 2013 X5 35d with Adaptive Drive in Virgina - Bimmerfest - BMW Forums I have lots of details on it ... PM me. |
Well bumping this thread as VW is painstakingly slow with their buyback process, but we are still leaning towards a 35D and on the last year of the E70, Sport Activity Package is a must -
BMW Certified listings are easy enough to navigate on the website, although I wish I could search nationwide, as I wouldn't mind traveling to Florida or the south (non salt states) for the right vehicle - My wife is also considering a 2014 MSport 35i X3, but I'm kind of nudging her towards the 35d, just because we may be expecting a child in the next couple years, and we already travel with 2 big dogs, so I don't really need to start shopping again if we added a little one and thought we'd need more space - The mileage on the X3 is the same as the 35D for the most part, but will take premium 93 instead of the cheaper diesel fuel. We also would consider a 15 or 16 28d in the Xline or Msport (doesn't really exist) trim in the X3, but that is kind of stretching the budget. As of November 2016 the used/certified prices are still fairly high on the 2013 X5's with the diesel that I've found, the clean ones are being asked from $35-40k, I'm wondering what actual sale prices are - considering these diesels are already 4 model years old and will be 4 physical years old going on 5, soon. The X3 in the Msport is comparable price wise to a clean, low mileage 2013 X5 diesel equipped handsomely so for us they would probably both be considered and come down to which is the better deal for us for the long term. I won't be selling my E53 any time soon as I'd never get back what I put in. Also, it seems that a lot of the X5's I'm seeing, although clean looking, seem to sit for a while - I was under the impression the used market is much more hurried along than the new inventory, unless things have changed. Maybe they aren't priced right? Or is it the fact that I'm not looking for Black Exterior or Black interior for her what ends up showing me a lot of the same vehicles? (I won't do a black car, and black on the interior with both dogs is a no no since the hair just screams at you when you get in) |
There isn't a big size difference between an X3 and an X5. In most interior dimensions they are within about 1-2" of each other. I've compared, my brother has a 2014 X3 sdrive 28i. and I have a 2008 E70 X5 4.8i.
Overall because of the better aerodynamics of an X3 vs e70 X5, better transmission lower weight I'd expect real world the x3 x35 vs an x5 35d fuel economy would be awash. The only real advantage of the D would be at the moment lower diesel prices, but that savings will be more than offset by the cost of emissions repairs and higher maintenance.. The M57's have well documented reliability problems with emissions components and suffer from accelerated Carbon Build Up. Which is why ABC deletes are so popular (I know I have a 2011 335D which is the same engine in the E70 except for low pressure EGR). My opinion would be, the D because of its lower reliability, more expensive engine oil, DEF refils, etc. would more than offset any cost savings from fuel and not save you any money over the 35i. If you get 35D tuned that changes the equation some, but you'll have to spend $3000+ to do an emissions delete which has its downsides (smoke, smell). $3000 buys you a lot of gasoline. The reason to buy a diesel is if you really like the engine and plan to do a lot of towing. Better yet would be to buy a N57 in the 2014 diesels which maybe more reliable. But don't buy a diesel one thinking it will save you money, its unlikely due to reliability and higher maintenance costs. Most D owners will tell you your happiest days are when you buy a D and when you sell it :-) I do like mine however. |
^^Great post and great points - I especially appreciate the size comparison, I know the X3 "looks" smaller" but in reality is not much smaller than the E70 -
I've also been looking for a 28d for her, but those are definitely harder to come by - however since its taking a while and we probably have another month or two before this car is bought back, I'll keep my eyes peeled - I think we'll stick with the X3 plan, it probably would be weird for me anyway to go from my E53 and go into an E70, variety is the spice of life. Out of the box and with a tune I think the 35i is pretty stupid fun to drive as well - |
Yeah its all a matter of what you want. I think the lighter weight and better power to weight ratio of the x3 35i makes it more fun to drive, its kind of like a 3 series vs a 5 series. The X5 is a fine vehicle but its not light years larger, and it certainly is heavier and less fuel efficient. The reason I chose an X5 is I own a company and needed to fit ladders in my vehicle and liked the flip down tail gate to lay tools on while I was working. It makes a great mobile work platform for me. I also wanted the X5 for its better towing capability as my wife and I own a 21 foot travel trailer and the X5 can tow ~6000lbs. I did get the 4.8i as I've had soo much trouble with the diesels I didn't want a repeat with the X5, and the 5.0i's are known to have lots of turbo and valve stem issues. So that left me with the 4.8i, but I do get a miserable ~8mpg while towing. So part of me wishes for a D, but for me at least, I bought my X5 used (2008, 89K miles) and it was a CPO for a short period of time for 15K. It was in excellent condition, had multi-contour seats, adaptive suspension, etc. I figured with how much I saved I could afford a lot of gas. The downside of course to any BMW is you need a lot of free time to keep them running when their older or a 3rd car ;-)
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Great points - We actually found an Msport 35i at a local dealer which is high on the miles at 65k but at least I'd have about 2 years or 35k of CPO warranty -
The price is right which is tempting to us, I've been looking in the mid-30's where the first lease ones are coming in at, with about 30-45k miles. This one with 65k looks pretty clean and maintained but dealer is asking $26k. She'd have it paid off in 2 years tops - Question is will the N55 be ok for the long haul - |
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This is good to know so no carbon buildup in the 35d? Any other potential items to address in the 35d in the later years - I am reading on this forum about an idler bolt snapping, as well as something about cleaning the intake manifold swirl flaps? Glow plug updates, etc - Anything I'm missing? I've found a couple with Sport Activity package and one with the Luxury Seating Package, none of them are terribly close but they are 2013's with under 35k miles - The wife also found an F25 28d in Mineral Silver/Oyster with Cold Weather/Luxury/LED lighting package which we are going to take a look at as its a 2015 with 22k miles - Finally sent the buyback paperwork in to VW, we should have our buyback date set in a couple weeks be done |
After almost 10 years in a 2000 New Beetle TDI that I bought for long commutes, I'm going to be in the market for an X5D sometime this coming summer. I'm a married man now with three 55 lb dogs in the family, and we're trying furiously to make some kids, so the old girl just isn't practical anymore (I'll keep it as a spare).
Looking for a 2012 or 2013 model, preferably with less than 50k. The only must-have options for me are the cold weather package, backup camera and HIDs...everything else would be gravy. I test drove a base 2009 model and even the seats in that felt like a Lazy Boy compared to the seats in my VW. I grew up on a farm and am a diesel junkie, I love the torque and growl of a diesel. I know the diesel isn't going to save me money, and could even cost me more, but are the gassers that much more reliable than the diesels? Can you give me a reason that I should just go with a 35i? If I go the diesel route, I'm already planning a full ABC delete and stage 1 tune (no emissions testing in MN), but I'll keep a high-flow cat on it. With a diesel, once I remove all the emissions stuff, I will only need to get the intact tract cleaned once...where gas engines need regular CBU removal. I DIY as much mechanical work as I can (rebuilt the TDI due to sins of the previous owner, and I swapped in a 5 speed when the auto trans crapped the bed) so I'm trying to learn as much about these as possible. Also hoping that Bentley Publishers comes out with a service manual soon, the current options out there for service information seem to be lacking based on what I've found so far. Is the Carly app as good as it seems? Does it have equivalent function to VCDS for VAG cars? Does it give better fault codes than a standard OBDII scanner? |
Well shes about to close on a one owner, 42k mile, White on Cinnamon with Sport Activity, Premium Sound, 214's, running boards, 5/2013 Build and in service of 8/2013 tonight, Florida car, and CPO -
I'm debating extending the factory warranty on top of the CPO for a year just to have a bit more peace of mind, 8 months of factory warranty and 2 years of CPO is pretty good though and I hope all the kinks have been worked out of the E70 by the last 3 months of production.... |
I'd personally recommend the extended warranty....
I've had enough failures on my 335D, and my X5 to say if you can get one for less than $4000 its probably worth while but a BMW warranty. I've had a lot of repairs on both cars and have spent well in excess of that price on my X5. I do indy's or diy. The 335D has been under warranty and had likely in excess of $15K in warranty work. Right now I'm working on broken heating (no drivers side heat) in my X5 and the dreaded parking brake failure. I've already replaced my alternator, and I'm going to need a new power steering pump. The break downs seem to be endless with these cars, but I enjoy them. So in 3 months of ownership on my X5... I've had the alternator fail, CCV fail, Heater Valve fail, Rear cooling fan fail, parking brake. I've also spent a lot on fluid swaps, etc. These cars easily out of warranty can take 5-10K a year in maintenance and repairs. Mine was a CPO until a few months ago. BTW nothing replaced under CPO is warrantied after the CPO is up. |
^Yep I have 8 months of factory warranty left (in service date 7/31/13) so I will decide whether to just keep it with just CPO or extend factory -
I have the service records from BMW - and I'm in a California Emissions state (for now) so it qualifies for that coverage (CA emissions coverage is more than the Federal 8y/80k - and that is the stuff I worry about failing, urea tanks, DPF's, sensors, EGT sensors, etc etc To have another 12 or 24 months of Bumper to Bumper I may purchase the BMW plan with $0 deductible to overlap the CPO, I haven't decided yet, we got a good deal so I'm going to give it a couple months and see how it treats us, as long as I purchased before factory warranty is up I can extend it |
Yeah my 335D is under california emissions as well. It covers certian items on a diesel longer than the 4/50K mile warranty. But some items are not covered as I've already discovered. Such as the SCR tank, which commonly fails on these cars, however I think on the X5 BMW has extended the warranty on them to 100K. The sedan's no... The tanks seem to die about every 50-80k miles.
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Emissions components like the urea tanks etc should be covered under 8y/80k federal emissions or in CARB states 10y/120k I believe - on later gen vehicles the component lifespan was upped to 150k as in the Gen3 TDI
Trust me with all this emissions nonsense going on the last thing BMW wants to hear is a call to the EPA or the CARB that they have federal emissions components failing way before the federal and CARB emissions components mandate and are expecting customers to foot the bill. Sure there are people who won't fight back but if my urea tank took a dump at 60k I'd laugh if they expected me to replace it on my dime. It's an essential part of the emissions system. Same as if a catalytic converter died at 60k, anything that fails early directly relating to the emissions of the vehicle should be covered. If for some reason it's not, well a DPF and EGR and urea delete would happen a lot sooner than needed. |
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