x5 35d SES codes - NOx sensor
 

2011 x5 35d with 165,000km

A new Shell station opened in our area and was the first to carry their V-Power diesel. A few weeks back the wife headed out and filled up using the v-power for the first time. She called me before leaving the parking lot because as soon as she started moving, the SES light came on.

My first instinct because of the timing was something fuel related, but when I pulled the codes it was all NOx sensor related. Burned through that tank as quick as possible anyways, cleared all the codes, they all ended up coming back. So the timing could have just been purely coincidental.

Here are the codes I'm pulling from Carly:
00475f - NOx sensor before DeNOx catalytic converter linear lambda or heating stop
00475e - NOx sensore before DeNOx catalytic converter linear lambda or heating stop
004bf5 - Too long invalid NOx sensor upstream of the DeNOx catalyst NOx signal
0046b9 - NOx sensor Nox filtered difference to the calculated NOx measurement signal too low before the DeNOx catalyst plausibility

I don't want to start throwing money at parts before knowing what's wrong. Looking at this I would think the place to start would be the upstream NOx sensor since all codes relate to before cat. Looking at some parts they seem to indicate left bank or right bank, but I've never heard of there being 2?

I'm mechanically inclined, have built many cars from the frame up, but not a diesel expert and there doesn't seem to be much out there on these specific codes. Looking for advise from those smarter than I.

Sounds like you are on the right path. There is no left bank/right bank for the diesel (obviously).

Check out realoem.com for the OEM part number then start checking around.

You can also probably find the sensors used, as many folks are deleting the emissions equipment. (As I did, I sold the sensors for $75 for both)

Well now you've got my attention. I never once thought of deleting the emissions equipment. We don't have any sort of emissions testing here at all.

I'm seeing these sensors brand new are roughly $1,000 CAD. I'm sure that can go a long ways towards an emissions delete.

I spent $1400 USD on all hardware and software to do the deletes.

The exhaust I ordered actually came out of Canada. BuzzKen (Ken Duncan) is the man up there. Depending on where you are, you might be able to have him do the work. I DIY'd the hardware and sent the DDE out to DUDMD Tuning for mine.

Do you know of any other way to have the tuning done other than mailing it out? This is the wife's daily and I can just imagine the hassle she'll give me if I tell her it'll be down for 2-3 weeks.

So, you should be trouble free! However, you can turn the software back on, correct?

Ken can do it all if you are nearby to him. A bit of googling for "Buzzken" should tell you a lot.

Afraid its not that simple. Besides, you are removing the hardware that those parts of the software are looking for.

I've been slowly doing some digging into this to learn as much as I can about the procedure. I've come across a few horror stories about various tuners and fitment issues etc...

I'm wondering if anybody has any experience with the Circuit Werks DPF delete kit?

Compared to the buzzken kit listed above, it's about $670 CDN less expensive. But it appears to only come with the DPF delete pipe and not the pipe for the SCR delete. But looking at the buzzken kit, that SCR pipe looks to be a straight pipe that any exhaust shop could do for less than $100. It is also missing the EGR block off plate which I'm having a hard time finding a source for these plates. Thoughts or suggestions?

Haven’t seen the Circuit works kits, but most of the pipes you find on eBay are for the European models and are not a direct bolt on.

Since I was doing all the work in my yard, bolt-on was key.

The midpipe / scr pipe is not completly straight. Shop I went to told me they can't make that bend without having creases in the bend which is bad for the turbos.

If they can custom bend it having it perfectly smooth I don't see why not.

from what I understand it's not standard equipment.

I doubt that a creased bend would put as much back pressure as the stock scr/dpf/doc or muffler. It wouldn't even have an effect compared to the aftermarket doc that some get on the down pipe.

It would not be bad for the turbos... Just not perfect flow of that size pipe, but it's not like we have a small exhaust for the size and power of our engine.

Good catch, the posting does specify for euro x5's. Although Circuit Werks as a company appears to be out of Texas, they may be importing parts and branding them as their own.

I believe it was your post I read that had fitment issues with the buzzken kit and then a nightmare with your initial tuner. Any advice on getting it to fit properly without leaks? You've both settled on DUDMD for tuning and both appear happy there.

It's already started snowing up here so I doubt I'll be installing myself on the cold ground. I've got an awesome diesel mechanic that should be able to handle the job. How many hours would you estimate for install on a kit like this?

Those with the right tools and familiarity with the job still take the better part of a day. Theres a learning curve. Someone who hadn’t done one before, even with a well equipped shop could end up spending more than 8 hrs.

I spread it out over 2 weekends with the week in between being utilized to round trip the DDE to DUDMD.

If you have a specialty shop that can do the work, experimenting with another pipe would benefit the community. And for the LP-EGR you could potentially cut the flange off actuator and tig weld a filler in.

But, by the time you pay someone to do all that, I’m sure you’d spend as much as the BuzzKen pipe. Just have the joint between the mid-pipe and the piece you need from the old mid pipe welded instead of relying on the clamp. I thought mine wasn’t leaking, but last time I had it off I did find a slight trail of soot out through the clamp.

On my cars's install both down pipe to midpipe and midpipe to muffler connections had to be welded. (maybe because I did not tighten the sleeve properly)

On the second install I did on my buddy's x5 the buzzken midpipe to down pipe connection would not fit more than about 1/4 of an inch even after cuting up the midpipe on both sides with a sawzall to get it to open. the pipe just wast round and required a weld. the mid pipe to muffler sleve however did seal properly after over tightening it.

so yes who knows what yours will look like the it's kind of a rough fabrication process they have. maybe yours fits like a glove who knows.

The aspect of our tune (DUDMD) that is significant IMO is that I have removed the passive and active tank without limp or CEL's and I do not think anyone else has done that.

even some guys at the e90 forums are looking for resistors and gimmicky stuff to remove their tanks after being tuned by major name tuners. (I believe BPC )

it's significant because when your tank goes bad you go into limp mode. and right now the tanks are free under warranty but 100k miles down the road when it does go bad it probably wont be. they are around 1200 each new. My used active tank sold on ebay for $650

another aspect of a tune that I have seen others struggle with is that some people have gotten misfires with no CEL and no codes logged. this is a huge problem as some tunes appear to numb out the ECU by routinely deleting codes that come up.

so when you have a injector issue or some weird problem later you will have no choice but to send the ecu back and run a detuned or mild version of the tune just to get the errors to log.

This is enough of an issue to keep me from doing this mod. It's my wife's daily driver first and foremost. I'd love the extra power for the times I drive it, but the downtime we'd be looking at if any other issues arise to ship the ECU out of country and back to log the errors, and then do it again once the errors are fixed. She'd kill me.

The X5 is my wife’s DD. So far no concerns from her or with me.

In Canada you have jr, aka www.chiptuning.ca which doesn't have the complications that dudmd tune has.

I’m not sure whose tune is silencing actual error codes, but AFAIK DUDMD’s isn’t.

I'll fire them an e-mail and find out what they say.

Well there are no known complications with DUDMD's tune.

I was just expressing a hypothetical concern. based on my very bad experience with the tune from bawareca. I tried looking for the thread I read a while back on e90 and can't seem to find any such case where the tune was not showing errors. So maybe it wasn't what I thought it was.

one way to know is if one of us will just unplug things like an injector or a maf sensor. see if the errors show up.

I think you are still better off with the tune and the slim possibility of having a rare code that does not log vs all the variables the existing emissions system has and the cost involved in maintaining it.

Logically speaking you're right here. If my front NOX sensor has failed, it's no longer a matter of IF the rear one does it's just a matter of WHEN the rear one does. Not to mention all the other emission systems that are prone to failure.

I've had the cats removed on my truck which causes 2 codes to appear. The tuner went in and programmed just those specific codes out so it has no effect on anything else. It's probably a bit more complex here, but I would hope it's the same general principle where they tune out only specific codes leaving all the others.

I'd still like to run the potential scenario past them and maybe get some more insight on their process. I may be blind here, but I can't seem to find any e-mail address or contact us link on their webpage. Does anybody have their e-mail address?

I’ve chatted back and forth with the owner of DUDMD tuning a lot, and it basically is the same principle. Monitoring and codes for just the emissions parts that are removed are blocked. Then you also have some tweaks to the tune maps to get more power if desired (do it!).

You can find DUDMD Tuning on Facebook. Message them. Dmitriy will gladly answer your questions and put your fears to rest. He’s great to work with.

Reviving an old tread here, mainly out of excitement. It's been a struggle finding someone willing to take on this task. No shop wants to touch it after the whole VW emissions scandal, not even off the books. I've talked to probably 20 different people in 3 provinces with no luck. Through a friend I got connected to a mechanic willing to take this project on. And he's local. He's the head mechanic at a non-bmw dealership and builds drag cars on the side. He's looked into it and said it should be no problem.

I also see DUDMD now offers remote tuning via OBD2. Being Canadian that option is HUGE since I will not have to ship the DDE back and forth over the border.

Now I just have to decide between the buzzken kit and the unobtainium kit. From the fitment issues I've read on the Buzzken kit, I wonder if going with the unobtainium kit I will come close to breaking even between the 2 with less labour and welding involved. And if the difference between 3" and 3.5" will make a noticeable difference.

what province are you in

Atlantic Canada

Diesel ops has a cheaper option at 600 for their down pipe + midpipe. Appears to be of good quality and is bolt on

https://www.dieselops.com/orion-dies...-x5d-2009-2013

I would have gone this route if it had been available. :thumbup:

BTW the afforementioned issue about the tune that caused all codes to be deleted is specific to BPC. There is a big discussion about it on facebook group about multiple cases. with BPC claiming it was a bad batch.

DUDMD confirmed their tune does not interfere with non emission related codes. I highly recommend their tune as it alleviated all my tune caused issues.

That price is pretty impressive! The quality of pipe definitely looks much nicer than the buzzken kit too. But there's absolutely no info posted on the dieselops site and the part doesn't exist on the Orion Diesel site. Although I do see them doing testing on a 335d with an offroad looking x5d on their facebook page. But not really any info there either. Have you seen any reviews on it?

I chatted with DUDMD as well, and he confirmed to me they don't turn off the entire fault code table. I'll be going with them for sure for tuning. May not bother with the remote tuning because it still involves shipping cables and dongles back and forth. At that point may as well spend the 10-15 minutes and pull the DDE.

EDIT: I see the Orion kit is 409SS like the buzzken kit while the unobtainium kit is 304SS. With that said... I could buy 2 Orion kits with the egr delete for the cost of 1 unobtainium kit, so even if it doesn't last as long it's probably still cost effective long term

Chatted with one of the guys at dieselops today. He says they've put on about 10 of these in the shop and so far zero fitment issues or leaks that require welding. Replaces all the pipe from the turbo back to the muffler. The kit does come with the EGR block off plate as well. Sounds like a no-brainer to me, placing the order for this kit today.

So I guess my next question is, aside from the savings of 5lbs or so, is there any benefit of doing the EGR race pipe and removing the EGR cooler completely since it will already be non-functional with the block off plate in use.

One of the most obvious benefits of removing the EGR cooler is eliminating the ingestion of exhaust carbon through the EGR cooler. But since you already have the block off plate then it would eliminate the possible hack of finding suitable hose for routing the coolant.

The intake side egr tends to crack as it is, so if you leave it there only bolted on at the exhaust manifold end and blocking it at the intake end the chance of it cracking goes up significantly since it would just be one long accordion arm bouncing up and down.

you probably also lose some responsiveness since exhaust gases have a large chamber to expand into when you accelerate as opposed to going straight into the turbo and spooling the turbine.

for 15 bucks you can get the ali express race pipe piece that comes with everything but you do lose the 4th support leg for the intake box. for me it does not cause any issues.

if you have the extra dough I would look at the orion diesel egr delete pipe which has the bonus of removing the ASV as well as the shitty intake connection and gaskets that cost 15 bucks a piece to replace.

not sure if DUDMD's tune deletes the ASV but it sounds like a really good idea. I would love to remove mine.

https://www.dieselops.com/orion-dies...-x5d-2009-2012

Just so happens I log on this morning and at the top of this section is a thread about the egr cooler cracking at the accordion and a bunch of people saying it's happened to them multiple times. That's enough for me to order the kit right there.

I saw the dieselops one on their site and actually prefer the bimmertune one they offer. I look at the ASV as a safety feature. In the slim chance of a runnaway, turning the engine off should close the plate on the ASV and help cutoff the engine before any serious damage is done. I think if this were to happen I would have the sense of mind to put it in neutral so it stops acceleration, but I can't say I have the same confidence in my wife's mindset where she might just hit the brake and hold on tight.

Thais a very valid point

So I spent the evening reading about the ASV and its function. When the ignition is turned off the ecu sends vacuum to close the flap so the engine shuts off smoothly without shutter. Hence the name.

Where the debate comes in is that the vacuum is only held for around 1 second, after that the flap opens.

Some say in a runaway situation that second will be enough to stop it, others laugh at that thought and say it will continue as soon as that flap cracks open again.

Just about all agree that a CO2 fire extinguisher into the intake will choke the engine and stop it. So mounting one in the trunk could take away any worry and allow another restrictive piece to be removed.

I chatted with DUDMD and he can remove it with his tune as well.

In the situation of a runaway your wife’s mindset would stall the engine much better than you throwing it into neutral and letting it free rev without any gears to hold it. In the automatic though both would sadly be futile.

Before you respond, I’ve had a runaway in a diesel. There wasn’t an ASV, but I do keep the Halotron fire extinguisher in that vehicle for HOPEFULLY choking the engine if Murphy comes around.

It's an automatic, my thought process of sticking it in neutral is to stop it from launching forward into whatever may be in front of me at 100mph. Rather blow the engine than kill someone.

I've been 2-3 days now on the fence on whether to delete the ASV at the same time as the EGR or not. I've read countless threads and there's so many conflicting views on the subject.

Oh you’re one of those guys trying not to hurdle into traffic. ;)

It’s too bad no one has done a dyno with an ASV and without. I would have liked to have seen that choke it out when I chunked that engine.

Yessir, prefer not to be a human rocket launcher! :p

I'd love to see a dyno with vs without as well to see the actual difference the ASV makes. The guys at dieselops say it's significant enough.

I don't worry about a runaway in the sense of overfueling. Our engines aren't mechanically injected, shut it off and the fuel cuts off. Where I worry is simply in the case of a turbo letting go and supplying a secondary fuel source.

I might just be oversensitive at this moment because I'm currently dealing with a blown turbo on my f150 which has lower millage than the x5.

After a few days of back and forth debating with myself, I couldn't get past the possibility of a blown turbo causing a runaway without the ASV in place, so I ended up ordering the bimmertunes EGR delete kit also through dieselops.

I chatted about ASV with Dmitry (DUDMD Tuning). His opinion was that deleting ASV is not worth it. He does have a dyno in his garage, not sure if the opinion was from performance perspective or safety.

"But I'd recommend leave the asv there, it's just an extra safety device."

He specifically said to me he sees it as a safety device.

What my ultimate tipping point was when I found a few guys who had done testing and were able to create scenarios where the ASV shut for 30+ seconds. At 1-2s closed i'd agree it may not stop an oil fed runaway, but if in that situation it can be held shut for 30s then it would be sufficient.