Will not start condition ‘08 4.8 with error codes
 

Ok, so my 2008 X5 4.8 won’t start. Not a battery issue, that’s been disconnected and charged fully to make sure (although I’m at 11.86 volts, which seems a bit low, but the starter isn’t making any attempt but i will test the battery in case).

I’m getting power to everything but when the start button is hit, I hear the relay trying to activate the starter, but the starter doesnt go. It also seems the brake petal is very firm.

I have 3 codes thrown (in addition to some random dash lights):

D904 Kcan wire fault
A0B4 Engine start, starter operation
A0B2 Supply, terminal 30E

Anyone have success differentiating between a bad starter and a bad connection at the battery with the safety terminals? Does the A0B2 code imply it’s the safety terminal connection?

Insight would be appreciated. Thanks!

11.86 is low. A fully charged battery will be in the 12.5v range

Toss in a bad IBS....

(And I'm not talking irritable bowel syndrome ...)

Where are you measuring 11.86? Battery terminals?

Yes.

The issue though, I’m getting no action or attempt for the starter to activate. No cranking sound, no attempt to crank, nothing. I recognize 11.86 is low, but shouldn’t be low enough to cut off the starter motor completely.

Jumping it was obviously attempted as well, and it does nothing. The same condition exists, nothing from the starter, no attempt to move. So, I don’t think it’s explained by the battery.

Technically 11.86V is a dead battery. I doubt you even have the amperage needed to activate the starter solenoid.

Again, with a starter box attached, same symptoms. So it’s not the voltage to the starter.

Just to put that to rest, I attached a different battery, same symptom. No motion from the starter. I understand that these cars are very sensative to battery voltage, I’ve gone through a regulator and changed batteries on it before. This isn’t a battery problem.

So, does anyone have anything other than the battery?

I’m thinking it’s the starter (which reads to be a common fault), but before I go through the rather involved process of changing it, I’m just trying to make sure I’m not missing something else like the blow out safety terminal connection (which I’ve already checked at this point, they seem good).

Thumbs up!!

Most jumper boxes cant even begin to jump a bimmer. So if your using a jumper box forget it.
Call AAA and get a proper jump.

Then you'll know.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk

Well, if you are getting voltage AT the starter- like 12+ volt when using another battery- and the starter isnt moving, that would be an indicator.

We have seen a few dead starters...not entirely out of reason

Starter's aren't high failure parts on these trucks. If battery SOC is below ~30%, DME won't even attempt to engage starter.

Maybe you have a faulty ground. Take a jumper cable and create an alternate ground path from engine to the ground lug used for jump,starting. 11.89 is dead. It wil not crank. Use a known good battery for this test.

If what you say is true and you've used a known good battery and/or jumper, I would then be leaning to the starter itself. When my alternator died 3 weeks ago and I ran my battery down to nothing (less than 12 volts) I at least got a good solenoid click. Then when I used a jumper box, fired right up.

So with all you've said, I think your issue includes the starter, but also that battery seems like toast if it doesn't get to and over 12v.

You are kidding right? BMW’s are 12V cars, jumper boxes start them all the time. There are 5 in my family alone in the northeast, everyone has delt with a dead battery at some point and every one of them has been started with a jumper box.

Come on, stop spreading nonsense. They are just cars with car systems.

The starter is toast.

Can anyone confirm, is the starter on the 4.8 located on the bottom of the engine on the passenger side like the 5.0 engine, or under the intake manifold like the 3.0? Or somewhere else altogether?

I suspect it’s on the bottom passenger side but surprisingly haven’t found much info for changing the starter on the 4.8....ton’s of DIY on the 3.0, so i know the starter is a known issue in general.

You're right my experience is bull.
I'll go away and never post again.

Snowflake!

You made the generalized statement that jump start boxes do not start BMW’s.

I have started multiple BMW’s with jump start boxes, never had a failure to start with a jumper box actually.

I’m not sure what to tell you, other than, you’re statement is not correct and far too generalized. There’s nothing special about BMW, it’s a car just like every other one out there. As someone who does all their own repairs and work on all their cars, it’s frustrating to see information disseminated that is completely baseless and/or wrong. And unfortuantely, it happens often with this brand.

AAA does not have special jumper boxes, if you can’t start your car with your jumper box I’d suggest you don’t have the jumper box charged fully.

Back to the actual question, can someone confirm the location of the starter on the 4.8 before I start digging into the engine bay?

Blanket statements by BOTH of you are likely wrong:

The newest BMWs with IBS and load control modules have demonstrated problems when trying to jump start with any power source. (AAA, another running car or a booster) Sometimes.

Older BMWs - 'many'- will jump fine. Or use a booster box.

My 2012 wouldnt turn over, tried to jump it- no joy. Connected an AGM charger overnight, started the next day. Actually quite maddening.

Its just a car with a 12V system, right? Not quite.

Generally I agree that BMWs arent special; they dont need magic tools or high priests to affect repairs. But there is something odd with this aspect...sometimes... You ignore the POSSIBILITY at your own peril.

It is on the bottom right. You can go to the TIS here: https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...unting/G8qD6u6

Ard,

I have to disagree with you on this statement, high priests are required to affect repairs. LOL :nanana:

Starters are huge failure items on BMW's and these trucks, I'm not sure where you're getting that from. There's TONS of discussions about busted starters, just not a lot of DIY info on the 4.8 specifically, most youtube videos are showing the 3 liter which has the starter in a different position.

It's hysterical to me. I'm telling you what I've done, but folks still like to say it can't happen. Yes, if the battery is REALLY dead, it's harder to start a car with a jump, but guess what, that's true on ANY CAR!

They are 12V cars, but I do agree, electrically finicky because of POOR ENGINEERING by BMW. But you can jump start them with other cars and jumper boxes, amazing news I guess, I didn't realize that would be the most exciting part of the thread.

So I figured I’d circle back around and update the post since I struggled to find any good information specifically about the starter on the E70 4.8.

I can confirm, the starter location is under the engine on the passenger side (thanks for the parts diagram). If you remove the main metal plate you can see it just above a bunch of cooling lines, under a heat-shield. You are seeing the smaller side of the starter (the solenoid). The main starter motor is above the solenoid. So the assembly is sitting with the starter gear facing the rear of the car, the wire connections facing the front of the car, the large starter motor on top, and the smaller solenoid on the bottom. You can see that solenoid smiling at your under the heat shield as soon as you look up along the exhaust on the passenger side.

If you’re taking the starter out, a few things:

first, make sure the battery is disconnected, I’m sure you already know that if you planning this type of repair, but it’s worth repeating since the main power lead is dangerous with a battery connected!

To remove the starter you also need to remove the second metal plate covering the transmission. You are going to need that access to remove it and to get your hands up by the starter to work.

The first thing I did was unbolt the heat shield from the starter. It’s connected with a 10mm bolt on the side and two 10mm nuts. The bolt is obvious on the side, and the 2 nuts are on the back of the main starter motor (the bigger part of the 2 pieces). One is easy to see, the other is symmetrically on the other side of the rear of the starter motor, you can’t easily see it. I’m not going to lie, it’s tight and annoying to work in the space. You can get them off, but it’s not easy and you need to use creativity and lots of different combinations to find something that works. The good news, these bolts and nuts are on very lightly, so it doesn’t take much to get them moving and then your fingers can do the rest. Interestingly, I did change my strategy on the second heat shield nut, I left it attached and removed the 2 starter bolts holding the assembly in place. I was then able to tilt the back of the starter (which faces the front of the car) down and with a combination of extensions and knuckles get to it with a socket over the A arm (there’s a small gap above it, just enough to thread an extension - knuckle - extension above). That was actually way easier once I realize I could do it, so you might just want to start with that strategy for both the 10mm heat shield nuts.

The 2 main starter bolts are torx bolts. I forget the size, but pretty standard, you don’t need any silly sizes. They came off fairly easily with some extensions and knuckles again, it’s not so much a tight space, the two bolts are just awkwardly positioned near the transmission and some wire harnesses. These bolts run from the rear of the car forward. Be sure you have the correct top bolt, you can’t see it, but you can feel it. There’s another torx bolt up on top though the same size, for the bell housing, so you can get the wrong one. Just look at the new starter and make sure you have the right spacing between the 2 mounting bolts.

Once the starter bolts are removed, you can get some play in the starter assembly to get a bit of room to disconnect the main power line. It’s straightforward and easy. There’s also a wire harness connection that is spring loaded with one of those spring clips they use everywhere. It’s also pretty obvious and straightforward, just move the spring clip up and the harness pulls off. Those wires are really long and can be moved around pretty easily.

Now the hard part, getting it out. It comes out backwards (toward the back of the car) following the exhaust pipe. After it’s disconnected, it was very helpful to have two sets of hands to manipulate it. One of us pushed the heat shield up while the other person tilted the starter motor down toward the front of the car. This gives just enough room to pull the starter toward the front of the car and remove it from the engine. When you finally do that and have it out of the motor, it will “fall down” into the space that sits above the cooling lines. It should be a bit loose at that point, you can move it and orient it.

Now, if you look from the rear of the car along the exhaust pipe, there’s a silver steel bracket that is bolted above the cross member. I removed the 2 bolts holding that in place. You can’t actually remove the silver metal piece, it’s attached somehow under the crossmember, but removing the bolts allows you to push that metal bracket down and give you slightly more room to get the starter to come out.

With the silver bracket loosened and pulled down, there’s JUST ENOUGH room along the exhaust to get the starter out. The second set of hands gently held the cooling lines down while I passed them with the starter. I’m not going to kid you, it’s TIGHT and required a lot of fiddling and patience, you don’t want to just jam and slam it out, you can break the cooling lines. But it does require a bit of gentle force and persistence, it’s tight. But I didn’t have to drop the subframe or move the engine up, there is enough room if your patient. There’s a transmission sensor wire connection that ends up in the way. You have to move that connection to get it out that last mm. It’s pretty obvious, you’ll see it as you’re trying to pull the starter out, the edge of the starter will hit the wire connection if you leave it there, and at that point it’s finally almost out, so you can’t miss it because you’ll be getting very excited thinking it’s just about to pop out and wondering what it’s stuck on, lol.

The reverse puts it all back together. Get the starter back in place, reattach the main power line and wire harness. Fiddle the heat-shield back in place and hand start the nuts, then put them back on with the extension and knuckle over the A arm. Don’t forget to re-attach that metal bracket above the cross member that we moved down to get some more room. Bolt the 2 main starter bolts back in with extensions and knuckles. Then put the metal bottom plates back on (the transmission plate goes back on first).

All in all, doable. It’s not terrible, but it is one of those annoyingly tight areas where you’re going to cut up your hands and stuff. But compared to other things I’ve done (cough cough…like cutting my hood open with a reciprocal saw…cough cough) it’s not all that bad, just time consuming fiddling in the tight space.

Thanks for that.

Since you "struggled to find any good information specifically about the starter on the E70 4.8" you simply decided to ignore the post (#18) where I gave you a direct link to the TIS that states it's location and steps you through the R&R of the starter, specifically on a 4.8i E70. So glad I tried to help you.

BTW those are E-Torx, not Torx bolts that retain the starter.

Since you didn't state specifically in your final post, I am hoping the foolish recommendation I made that your starter appeared to be the problem (post #12) we are left to guess if it worked.

Nice write up on how you performed the R&R but would like to know if this was the ultimate solution.

+1

My guess is we won't know for a while. There's a list of possible solutions that weren't considered prior to replacing the starter.

It amazes me that people won't pay attention to those with experience.

Wish he stated what solved his problem instead of information on replacing the starter -_-

The massive frustration one experiences when one's vehicle is out of service can certainly encourage someone to throw parts at a problem instead of doing a proper diagnosis. I have certainly been there, and the longer the car is out of service, the higher the propensity to throw parts at it. Especially when you're paying $125/hr plus for diagnosis; and possibly a rental car while it's down. Yet our OP could handle replacing a starter himself, and did so. I gather this fixed the problem or he would have said so. His write up was pretty good as well....although photos would have been nice.

Don't take it too hard that he followed his own path.

I don't think any of us are taking it hard at all that he took his own path. My issue was more along the lines of his writing that no one helped him figure anything out when that was just not the case.

Not saying I wanted or needed a thank you for anything, but don't write that nobody offered any useful advice when you ended up doing what the advice stated.

No, I actually located it before you posted it, but thanks anyway. Not sure what all the attitude is about. I was 80% confident where it was located without the parts diagram based on the other 8 cyl locations, but I just went out and started disassembling in that area to find it. It was obvious with the bottom plates removed.

That’s great, good clarification. You’re right, they are E-Torx, lest anyone try and use something else on them (good luck).

Sorry it wasn’t clear, I said the starter was broken in a followup post. Yes, after putting the new starter in the car started right up. It was definitely the problem. If you have similar symptoms and codes...there’s a good chance you have the same.

Man the membership on this board is weird. I’m pretty sure in post #14 I clearly tell you my starter is dead.

Changing the starter immediately fixed the problem.

My “writing” that no one helped? I have no clue what the hell you are talking about. Where exactly do I write “no one helped me”? All I did was tell you how to change the starter in a E70 4.8, something that doesn’t seem to be shown anywhere I looked.

I see you posted a parts diagram, I didn’t see it until AFTER i had found it on the car anyway. Thanks for the attempted help...Should I come and patt everyone on the back who posted a response after a problem is solved....even if I didn’t even see it? Seems silly to me, but ok. So, thanks.

But the real problem is, i was pretty sure it was located there anyway. The parts diagram doesn’t explain how to get it out. How to remove it and put in a new one is what I could not find discussed anywhere for the 4.8, just lots for the 6 cyl. Sorry if I offended you somehow.

It amazes me how people like to post things on the internet.

As I said in post 14, it was the starter. The car is back running and driving. The diagnostics clearly told me it was the starter, it wasn’t a “guess”, but I’m sorry you don’t approve of me changing it.

I’m done with the thread and to be clear, I won’t be back in this thread again. I posted the followup and explained how to change the starter for anyone that encounters the same issue and/or trouble codes on A 4.8 E70. It’s not the worst job, but it’s not the easiest either because of space constraints.

So anyone that is doing it as a DIY, make sure you are confident you can work in small spaces and understand how it comes out. If you have specific questions, PM me.

Really glad you got it worked out and yes, I agree, timing on what I posted (#12) and what you gathered yourself (#14) could easily have occurred where you didn't even see my mention of the starter.

My "no one helped" statement was more of a paraphrase and I apologize if I took what you wrote originally out of context.

On the link I posted (#18), it was the TIS for the 4.8 not the 3.0/6 Cylinder and NOT a parts diagram. It was the instructions to R&R the starter. But no issue, you mentioned you had gone ahead and started the work before you saw my reply.

As mentioned before, no I don't need a pat on the back and I had no way of knowing you had sorted it out prior to my posting of the suspected cause or the actual instructions (not parts diagram). So if you want to say that I did that after the fact, oh well, I tried to help.

No, I am not offended and wasn't offended. Just a bit surprised at the responses. Again, glad you got her running again!

Man this is an odd thread.

Clinkinfo, I have no idea why it took the turn it did.

I can tell you from a personal view, you really seemed to have the situation in hand- drilled down on battery, moved on to the next suspect. Then you can back and 'paid it forward' with a very complete discussion of the job. I thanked you.

Yes, there were a few clueless posts- and others seeming to double down on those clueless posts.

IMO, on the basis of your work in this thread, you are a valuable contributor.

Catch you on the next thread!

:thumbup:

2011 E70 35I Will Not Start
 

I am having a similar issue. I have not driven my vehicle for a month and now it will not start. I’ve called AAA and they couldn’t start it either. The battery is a few months old and tested good, but needed a recharge.

Some of the methods AAA (and their contractors) use to boost and rapidly charge a battery can actually damage the BMW electronics. Just an FYI

Did you properly charge your battery overnight with an AGM battery charger??