Bad transfer case?
 

Hi, thanks for approving my membership. I recently purchased a 2011 35d, and flew out and drove it home (about 1,500 miles).

It did great the first 800 miles, but then at about 70 MPH, while on a decline, the car suddenly jerked and pulled to the right. No lights on the dash, but I reduced speed, and got to the right lane. I saw an exit ahead so decided to get off, and it did it again on the offramp. However this time the traction control light flashed for a second. My foot was off of the accelerator pedal both times.

This was a pretty violent jerk to the right, almost as if only the right front wheel was braking for a second.

I decided to disconnect the AWD by removing fuses 92 & 125 in the 'trunk'. Of course all the warning lights came on about me not having ABS, TCS, etc.

I tested it in a safer area to see if it did the jerk again and it didn't. Continued on home the rest of the way with zero problems, although the cruise control being inoperative was a bit inconvenient. haha

On the list to do, even before I picked it up, was to change all the fluids. So I've got transfer case fluid, transmission fluid & filter, and both diffs to change soon. But I'm worried that won't be the fix. Thinking back I did notice a scraping sound on the front left wheel when I turned it when backing out of a parking spot. It sounded like it was rubbing up against the wheel well liner. Since it was dark I couldn't entirely tell when I got out to look at i. Not sure if that's related to the other issue or not though. I've done some searching, and maybe I don't know the right terms, but I haven't yet come across this exact symptom.

Sorry for the long-winded post, but I wanted to provide the details.
Any ideas? Thanks.

Wow. Ballsy move- there is utterly no way Id have driven 700 more miles on a car that isnt working right.

I can't see this as "fluid" issue. IMO fluid doesnt cause violent jerking.

I can not recall seeing this symptom, so no help there. Can you read codes? You will need a BMW-specific code reader.

GL-

Oh, welcome!

Thanks!
And yeah, there was definitely some deliberation about moving on.

I'm thinking it's not a fluid issue either. Which sucks, but it's not my primary vehicle, as I've got a few old Audis sitting around. So that will give me more time to figure out what the issue might be.

I see a lot of acronyms/names thrown around with the BMW testing tool. For example: INPA. But then I see some posts that say they don't work to reset transfer case and transmission adaptations. So I'm most likely going to buy a Foxwell NT510. Hopefully that will do all the above.

I guess I'll have to start to consider transfer case rebuild or replacement.

Shockingly inexpensive to purchase used.:cheer::strut:
Note with or without electric motor when comparing prices (and your needs).

Might also worth checking speed sensors on the front wheels. I t should show on inpa or equivalent.

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Check the tires for correct size.

I think you need a scanner, to be able to diagnosis this and other issues.

HOWEVER, i absolutely do not think you gave enough info to buy a transfer case- based on the content here.

Could have been a fault in the stability control system was causing actuation of one caliper (just a total WAG here) ...I am sure there are other scenarios.

Just my 2 cents

This is not a car you can really work on much at home without the ability to interface with it. Plus once you have it, the scanner is free fast information when avail, and spend extra to get one that performs basic service functions such as adaptations/fuel/trans/xfer/air,etc.
Servo motors on the transfer case have issues and a fix. Transfer case takes magical fluid only available through the dealer. Used transfer cases are plentiful and priced accordingly. You're doing your own work right?

You caused a bunch of codes at a certain mileage when you pulled fuses. See if there are any that occurred an appropriate mileage prior.

Like Ard said, maybe it's something else.

I spent quite few months on transfer case and wheel sensors.

I do not think you need a transfer case.

I would (I promise I won’t start with battery)

1- Set up INPA (or ISTA+) this is a must for you to work on your BMW.

2-Scan the car with INPA or ISTA and get the codes.

3- Print the codes, erase them, ensure battery is fully charged, drive it, scan it again. Then you have some real material to work on.

4- Skip the unrelated codes for now. But don’t be oblivious about them!

5- If you see any faults codes about wheel sensor, check them. Wheel bearing would be your fix.

6-if you see any fault codes with “VTG servomotor, internal error, voltage “ words, you might have a battery and or battery registration issue! Sounds absurd, but it is real!!! Inspect your battery and registration status and go from there. That would be your fix.


Now if you don’t have INPA or ISTA yet, you can use a simple voltmeter and inspect wheel sensors manually!

I posted that procedure on bimmerfest in one of my posts. Same username. If you have difficulties, I’ll find it and post it here when on my laptop.



Don’t freak out ! Don’t rush into transfer case rebuilding or replacing.


Quick tip: inpa and the kdcan cable on ebay or amazon for ~$20. You need a PC laptop.
Ista+ on other bmw forums!


Good luck








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Here it is:


Check and inspect the wheel sensors:

Find the sensor connectors in a plastic box affixed to the body.

Open the hinged small box and disconnect the speed sensor connector.

Deep inside the connector, you will find two prongs.

Use a multimeter in Diode position (an arrow with a line in front) and test the prongs.

You should either see “no change”, or “a number”.

Now reverse the multimeter leads to the prongs, and you should see the other option: “a number” or “no change”. (in my case, sensors showed 420 for all four sensors) if one sensor shows a different number, stop there. That sensor is faulty.




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Had my own number of issues like that, and was solved by replacing the transfer case actuator gear. It's a little plastic wheel that has the teeth wear out over time (known issue on the X platform). Easy fix and worth a try. If it resolves your problem, you have saved a ton of money.

Link to item:
https://cobratransmission.com/ATC400-Actuator-Gear-Set

https://www.amazon.com/Transfer-Actu...7HYY4TXZ3X9998

Thanks for the link :thumbup:

Which did you buy? One is a set of gears, the amazon is just one?

I'm thinking to do this in the spring as a preventative measure.

Thanks for all the tons of info guys. I have the scanner on it's way, so I can get the codes soon. The battery is on a tender, since I'm not sure how long these cars can maintain their battery when not driven.

I've got it in the garage, working on some other maintenance until my scanner arrives. I'm doing the water pump, thermostat, coolant flush, serpentine belt & A/C belt, new serp. tensioner and new idler pulley. Then I'm going to look into replacing all the vacuum hoses (even though they go some pretty horrible places), as well as most likely doing a carbon clean once I have the manifold off to verify.

One thing I noticed when I needed to rotate the engine for the A/C stretch belt is that I don't have the slot to manually put the transmission in neutral under the cupholder. However, I do have the hole under the cupholder as well as the orange tool. Any idea why I have the tool if there is no slot? Also, this is the 6 speed ZF transmission on a 2011 35d, right? I haven't yet located the ZF tag on the transmission.

Bad transfer case?
 

If you really need to see the ZF tag, drop the pan:
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...e33946f41e.jpg



Under the car, close to the transmission pan there is a lever that you can manually change the gear to N. Use that instead.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...b3fc4ac6e6.jpg
The lever is circled. Picture taken when pan was off. A wire will be connected to this lever.




Re battery tender, it won’t charge your battery to full. It’ll keep its current charge though.

How old is your battery?




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Thanks. Yeah I had to use the little 5mm hex bolt on the underside to put it in neutral. My battery tenders always charge to full though.

Still need to look on the battery for a date. I didn't see it on first glance. I've heard the battery on these not performing as well as new can cause a myriad of issues though, so I'll check that soon.

The battery date is 51st week of 2016, so I imagine it's got a few years left. Does leaving the car unlocked and hood open drain the battery faster? Battery was down to under 75% after a week or so off the tender. Maybe the car is searching for the CA key?

Anyway, got my NT510 and read some codes. I don't see an option with this scanner to show codes by date. The codes that showed up appear to be the ones that are related to the transfer case being disconnected.

Does INPA show historic data?

When you lock the car, it goes to sleep mode in 3 minuets.

When you leave it unlocked, it takes 30 minuets. Thus using battery 10 times longer.

Car modules usually don’t store the date of a code. Instead they store the mileage (or KM ) when a code tripped.


INPA shows “historical“ data in mileage or KM.

For battery historical data:
E70- ibs-pm data or F5 - pm1 pm2 and pm 3.

Or a path like that.






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You didn't need to put the transmission in neutral to turn the crank. Automatics are open to the engine when off due to the torque converter not being active.

Has anyone seen or heard of transfer case code 5DEA? I got this days after the driveshaft recall was done and BMW is stumped. The transfer case fluid has been changed and looked good, the actuator gears replaced and they looked good, they reprogrammed the transfer case and it still pops up... It comes on even when the truck is cold, even though it says it’s heat related. Does it with summer and winter wheels, so it’s not tire/wheel related... This has been on going for a year and a half now https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...4959efb9fa.jpg


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"BMW is stumped"

???

They have opened a PUMA case with no resolution? Almost unbelievable.

Yeah, claim they they have no idea(basically)... We are at replacing the entire transfer case, which makes no sense to me because there are no drivability problems other than this stupid code coming up. Not a noise, a shudder, a bang, no slipping, nothing.


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Any updates on this? Mines completely falling on it's face to the point where it's becoming undriveable...highway speeds is OK but backroads and it'll force itself into Neutral or Park as I'm doing slow turns and whatnot.

I recently reviewed the codes after having trouble with ISTA reading in German and the NT510 not showing at what mileage the codes occurred and then a nasty breakup sidelined things for a few months. The codes that I pulled did not show anything until the point that I disconnected the transfer case. So, that really didn't give me anything to go on.

I might just replace the wheel speed sensor on both of the front wheels. Other things I have done is replace the front driveshaft (unrelated), replace the transfer case motor gear, replace the transfer case fluid, differential fluids, and transmission fluid. I haven't started the car yet, as I'm waiting for my DDE to return from tuning, and then I will reconnect the transfer case module, and can start fresh with potential codes. Of course I'll be holding on to the steering wheel tightly to avoid getting pulled into a ditch.

Sorry that doesn't really help m5james, but it seems like your symptoms might be different anyway. What do your codes say?

James, it makes sense in your case to consider replacing the Transfer Case. Also, have you pulled the glove box? There’s a TSB that says there’s been issues with wires in the dash, behind the glove box on e70s made before 2011 that wires were being cut by the sharp metal dash and the “fix is to wrap in felt tape”. Think we discussed this over text.. Mine was wrapped in tape, but when I removed the tape I found two or three wires had been chaffed, and a wire at the suspension control module(accessible on the side of the dash) wasn’t plugged in all the way.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...0bed1f4d1e.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...2eb4da2f11.jpg
Note the sharp metal of the dash
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...88ca9a70f1.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...cfe84f7343.jpg
This was my favorite. The blower motor wire hanging by a thread... No wonder BMWs have burned down because of this harness/plug...
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...c8b4420d77.jpg
Note the sharp metal...
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...6df021f434.jpg
The fix, automotive carpet, spray glued to metal and around the wiring. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...30c39bf26c.jpg

I mention this TSB because it talks about my code 5DEA and lists many other totally random codes, including can bus, transfer case and many other codes....





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Lol... We have two threads on this... [emoji23]


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:wow: Ummm... yeah I'm going to have to look into that as a precautionary measure. :rolleyes:

Can you post the tsb or a link to it? Not sure if my build date of 09/10 is affected...

I can’t find the correct one anymore. But it was ALL e70s up to 2011. So, anything built in 2010 and earlier... That would most definitely include yours robnitro

This is NOT the one I originally found, but it’s all I can find now... Pretty close

https://bmw-worldzz.blogspot.com/201...l_210.html?m=1


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Mine is a MY 2011, but I believe was manufactured in 2010 as well. I would like to look at the wiring behind the glovebox.

Was the glovebox difficult to remove? And is there a DIY on it?

It is a DYI, but it will take a good afternoon. There are more screws than you’d ever expect. Other than that, it’s pretty simple, nothing to screw up. On mine the dealer has to have done the TSB, as mine had felt tape, but when removed, I discovered there were issues. Nothing major, but at one time the wires were touching metal...


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Mine is a 2011 too... I wouldn't be surprised that bmw f'ed up the repair. It's sad how globalism turned good manufacturers into clones of each other. Buying German no longer means good mechanical quality for example when half the parts are outsourced!

I give BMW (and other lux brands) a bigger middle finger because they charge extra for their name brand but don't stand behind it....

Okay, took her out on the road again. I had only driven a few miles around town before today.

Chose a back road with pretty much zero traffic and late at night. Set the cruise control to 60 and no issues for 30 miles. Then the speed limit raised to 65 so I set the cruise around 68. Thing went fine for another 15-20 miles, and then on a left hand curve I reduced the cruise by a mph or two, then accelerated (with the cruise stalk I believe), and after the road was mostly straight again, the car pulled to the right again, and it felt like the front right wheel was the one braking. A message popped up on the CIC display, but went away pretty quickly.
I slowed down a bit, setting the cruise at a lower point and went around an even slower left hand curve and the car pulled to the right again. Fortunately both of these times were less intense than the first times in March. Not sure if that was due to changing all the fluids or what.

I did get a picture of the message the 2nd time it came up though.
https://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b...psq2ow2tnw.jpg



ard, it seems like you might have been onto something. From that message I would guess that some kind of sensor or module believes there is wheel slip/traction loss and so it is braking the right front wheel as part of the DSC system to correct the issue. All tires are the same size, brake fluid level is good, roads were dry and smooth, and tire PSI is at recommended levels.

Scanned for codes when I found a good place to stop and no new codes. The only codes I have were existing ones for a 3rd row seat heater (I don't have heated seats anyway) and a code for the bumper aerial under the Comfort Access System.

Decided to try driving the way back without the cruise control and never had the issue, but that doesn't mean anything as I might not have had the right steering wheel angle or yaw angle or speed to replicate the problem.


Alphabetax5 I'm going to complete the wheel speed sensor testing with a multimeter tomorrow. Since I didn't have codes, I wasn't sure where to go with that.
Also going to try to reset the steering wheel angle as it shows a positive 8 when the wheel is centered.

See if you can monitor and log speed from the individual wheel sensors. Testo may do that. Diagnostic program with realtime graph view

Thank you. I wonder if that shows decimal points because I used the OBD scanner for this yesterday and it just showed the MPH and wasn't quite as specific as I would have liked. However I did not see an obvious difference in speed for all 4 wheels.

Can you tell me if this Diagnostic program works on the S63 4.4 TTv8 2010-2013 X5M Motors/vehicles? It has a different ECU than all other BMWs

Okay, I wasn't able to test the wheel speed sensors today, but I was able to go for a short drive on a curvy, empty road tonight.
Lo and behold, the traction control light comes on only on left turns even without the cruise control on.

On even tighter left turns, the right front wheel is braked by itself. EDIT: Actually after reviewing what happened in a video, it seems the automatic braking is occurring at higher speeds, not tighter corners.

So, at least I've narrowed it down to left turns. Hopefully this week or weekend I can get the sensors tested, correct the 8 degrees of steering wheel angle, and go for another test drive.

I was able to reset the steering angle sensor, then tested. Same result
I tested the front wheel speed sensors, they were both good. Replaced them anyway. :( Same result.

Then I reset the ABS/DSC module since I noticed the longitudinal sensor was reporting that I was moving at .32 meters per second even though I was parked. It fixed the longitudinal sensor reading, but still same result.

Then I double checked the tire pressure, 36 PSI front, 44 rear for X5's with my tire size with 3rd row seating, and then reset the TPMS and drove again. Same result.

Disabling the DTC does not fix it either, but disabling the DSC does. Unfortunately this means I can't use cruise control which I use a lot.

I thought about disconnecting the front driveshaft, but I think I would rather have AWD and no DSC than RWD only and DSC.

Don't feel like I've narrowed down things much since it might be the ABS/DSC module that needs to be rebuilt or replaced. It could be the Yaw sensor. It could be the transfer case, it could be the front differential, and maybe even a wheel bearing?

I haven't been able to check the rear wheel speed sensors as whoever last worked on the car before I bought it must have used a impact wrench at max torque to tighten the wheel bolts. I am waiting on a special lug bolt removal tool since the lug bolt is somewhat stripped and I've broken too many tools on it.

Oddly enough the noise that happened when turning the wheel when stopped has disappeared. I don't know if it has something to do with the ABC delete I did because I lowered the subframe a bit, or if it's due to something else.

Although it shouldn't change anything, I do plan on doing a brake fluid flush as it is probably needed anyway.

When you checked the steering angle sensor did you watch the value constantly? Others have reported random very short spikes or blips for a split second indicating there was an issue with the steering angle chock


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Just thinking out loud here but disabling DSC and having the problem go away as well as testing and replacing the wheel speed sensors with no change... makes me think it could be Internal to the front diff.

Thinking old school, if there was any slip in the spider gears or internal drive clutches on that side it would/could allow that side tire to “free wheel” if you will and cause the DSC to engage.

Note mine is not an E70 but it’s definitely an avenue to look in to.

I had a mustang that I bought that I thought just need the friction modifier added to the rear diff, did that and still had all kinds of problems - pulled the cover and found out the prior jackass hadn’t reset the C-clip and that the pin in the spider gear set was sheered off...

Best of luck nailing that down!


2005 X5 4.4i (04/05 build date)
Titanium Silver w/Black Interior

Thank you for the additional thoughts!

I did not see any spikes when doing the steering calibration, but I can check again. I'm guessing if it did spike it would do it when just reading the values and I wouldn't necessarily have to go through the entire calibration procedure again.

Purplefade, I'm open to any suggestions, so feel free to think out loud. It could be the front diff also I'm sure. I don't know how to rule that out though.

An interesting symptom happened today though. With DSC off, going around a left hand corner, a truck that I was following stopped to turn left in the middle of the corner. I applied the brakes and I could feel what is similar to the ABS kicking in through the pedal. The pedal got softer. Keep in mind, this was not an emergency stop, it was a slow, gradual slowdown.

I drove the road several times again to see if it was consistent and reproducible and it was. And just like when the DSC is on, it only occurred on sharper left hand turns.

Since the weather is starting to warm up slightly, I might do a brake fluid flush and possible ABS system flush if I can find out how to do that. If there is still an issue, I might have to see my local European car mechanic. I'm in a somewhat rural area so there's not a ton of European shops around here.

I did buy a spare used yaw sensor for cheap, but I have no idea where the yaw sensor is located on this car. Does anyone know?

Maybe your abs wheel speed sensors are dirty. In some cases the ring gets messed up with rust, causing it to be too close or too far from the sensor.
When cornering there is a bit of flex on the hub and you might be just barely in range of a sensor.
Not sure where you can log the wheel speed sensors but that might be worth a shot to do while cornering left to see if there are spikes or drops on a wheel relative to the others.

tractor, get both front tires up off the ground and turn them by hand, make sure they rotate smoothly enough and that you don’t feel any “grinding” or significant resistance on one side or the other.

If that’s all good you can have someone hold the right side tire while you try to turn the left side tire feeling for any play or slippage in that sides drivetrain.

With everything that you have already tried I’m wondering if there might be play in that side of the drive line either in the gear box itself or the cv shaft.

Another thing you can check - totally grasping here - but make sure the tires are the same pressure. With the left being the outside tire as you’re turning if it’s (significantly) lower than the inside tire the wheel speed sensor may read a quick change in tire speed as the weight of the truck compresses it going in to the corner and engage the DSC thinking that tire is slipping.

Let me know how that goes, I’d be happy to keep thinking if you need a hand.


2005 X5 4.4i (04/05 build date)
Titanium Silver w/Black Interior

Thanks. I didn't get a chance to lift both front wheels, but I did get the left front wheel off to check the ABS sensor, that is only a few months old.

https://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b...psowhm266k.jpg

https://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b...psowhm266k.jpg

You can see the tip is rubbing, maybe just when driving around corners?

robnitro's comment about flex in the hub makes me wonder if that's kind of what's happening. I'm not sure how I would fix that issue though. Do I need an entirely new hub?

I won't be able to work on it for a couple weeks unfortunately due to my job.

Hmm, not sure about flex. Unless bearings are bad...I should think

Make sure the mounting surfaces for that sensor are well cleaned- if there is rust/crap it could lead to a 'cocked' position, and rubbing.



Finally, you sure that 'couple of month old sensor' is OE? Not some cheap no-name 'close enough- it fits' thing?

+1 on that, my first thought was possible bad bearing, I also like the idea that maybe grime under the sensor is causing it to sit at a strange angle.

Another thought is do you know if that side suspension has ever had any work done to it? Maybe the bearing isn’t pressed in fully or the “speed sensor ring” is fudged some how.

Weird part is that I would think that you would feel and hear it rubbing... Maybe try setting a jack stand under the jack pad so the control arm hangs loose. Then, using a small jack, jack up the control arm at the center and rotate the hub assembly and then repeat that process on the front and back edges of the control arm - my logic is that by applying pressure center then front then back maybe you’ll get some deflection and see more of the issue.

Last thing, use some electrical tape on the end of an extension and insert it into the speed sensor hole and rotate the hub assembly feeling for any rubbing.

Don’t you love shit that just doesn’t seem to make any sense...


2005 X5 4.4i (04/05 build date)
Titanium Silver w/Black Interior

The video I saw was a guy explaining that the ring gets rusty and expands, rubbing on the sensor... So take a peek and see what might look off.

Just wanted to give an update on this issue.

I have been disabled the traction control as a workaround since I don't drive this car that often.

I'm driving it more lately though, so I thought I would see if the steering position sensor was dirty. It was clean as new, but the clockspring was kind of a disaster. It fell apart as I removed the steering wheel. So I decided to replace it.

After that, and a bit of difficulty with the recalibration, I have not seen the issue since!

It's only been a few days, but I'm hopeful. The clockspring ribbon could have been binding during turning and maybe that affected the steering angle sensor somehow. Not sure, but I'll be happy with the result!

Thanks for all the input and ideas.