Another oil leak thread...
 

Hello.

My 2007 BMW x5 4.8i 105k miles has been to the shop twice within the last month or so due to various oil leaks. Car was leaking bad. First visit was to replace the oil cooler thermostat gasket. This one was leaking heavily.

$860 later I am back on the road. A few days later, I spotted oil on my garage floor. took a look and voila the leak is back with the same symptoms. oil collects at the bottom of the front diff. leak was as heavy as before the repair.

Took the car back to the BMW indy shop that did the oil cooler therm gasket. after inspecting the car, I was told and shown that it's my left valve cover and upper timing cover gaskets but the leak isn't too bad and I could put it off.

A week later, I started smelling burnt oil through the dash vents. later that week, I happened to have the hood up with engine running, I noticed smoke coming out of left side of the engine. This confirmed the valve cover gasket. Took the car in again and had that taken care of.

$1500 later, I am back on the road. Fast forward one week, take a guess :) .. leak is back. oil collects at the bottom of the front diff running down from a higher point.

leak seems to be concentrated to the front left of the engine so the plastic shield and the front end of the skid plate have oil on them.

I am hoping the experts here can give me an advice on what else could leak from there?

I did check around the valve cover, it's pretty dry, the upper timing cover seems dry too.

one other thing I noticed when I inspected the engine from under the car. I see drips of oil collecting at the bottom of one of the oil cooler lines, it's where the line curves ( u shape) to enter the thermostat housing.

should i take the x5 back to the shop and say it was't done right?

Thanks in advance for any tips.

I think those two oil lines into the thermostat gasket have o-rings. Maybe those lines are what is leaking. An extension mirror would help you locate it. I just took my thermostat gasket off last night. Some UV dye might help you find it to. I wouldn't just walk in and say they messed up the job. If it has only been a week since they worked on it I would think they would check over there work and identify the leak.

The first time I took the car back after they did the oil cooler therm gasket, they confirmed it wasn't that and it was the UTCG and VCG. not sure how easy it is to have a good visibility of the oil cooler therm without taking bunch of stuff out of the way. their response was pretty quick. took them like 10 mins to call me into the shop to show me the problem.

I ran my hand down along the oil cooler lines and indeed I got fresh oil on my hand from around the thermostat. it would be a huge mistake to not replace the o-rings when they did the gasket!!

is it the same amount of work to replace the two o-rings?

thank you.

I was just thinking, could the upper oil pan be leaking? would the oil end up at the bottom of the front diff cover?

is it the same amount of work to replace the two o-rings?

thank you.[/QUOTE]

It is only one bolt that holds the oil lines into the thermostat housing. It is the easiest one to get to. Once the bolt is out the lines are easily disconnected. A mirror could let you see it. It would take removing the fan, belt, and alternator to get to it I believe. The o-rings should be replaced at the same time as that gasket. It is still mostly a blind job. If you could confirm the o-rings were the source of the leak I think you would have an argument for them to replace them.

Not the best picture but this is where the lines connect to the thermostat housing.

I see oil drop hanging at the bottom of the tube pointed to by the green arrow.

I'm not sure if you can get a good picture of it with the alternator still on but I took all of my pictures with my iPhone at a 45 degree angle. You may be able to snap a pic and get the details.

I tried from the engine bay i couldn't get my hand down there with a phone. not even with a selfie stick. I also tried with a mirror, no luck. I can see the cooler lines from under the car with the skid plate removed so perhaps I can get a shot from there ..

ok I got a nice shot from under the engine of the oil cooler thermostat and lines..

Whats going to leak over there on the 4.8i is the valve cover, timing cover, oil thermostat, or those lines. The area around where the the oil thermostat gasket looks too dry to be the source of the leak. From how you wrote your repairs it sounds like you had them replace the valve covers but not the timing covers. The timing covers only take an extra couple hours once they are in there for the valve covers. Timing cover gaskets should have been done at the same time. My guess would be one of 3 things. A leak from the oil lines that have the oil drip on it, a timing cover that did not have a gasket replaced, or the valve cover still has a small leak and needs to be redone. It is typically recommended that the timing covers be replaced at the same time as the valve covers. I would bring it back to them. Have them check their own work since it is quick to have a new leak. Then take it home and re-evaluate it yourself if they say it is a new leak.

If they somehow decide to redo the oil thermostat gasket, ask them to replace the e-torx bolts with hex bolts. Saves hours if it ever leaks again in the future.

Both VCG and timing cover gaskets were replaced :) I purchased the parts myself and told them to replace both. All genuine BMW parts by the way. I ran my fingers along the bottom of the valve cover and in the back of the engine (half moons), all dry. no visible leakage around the timing cover either. very strange.

That probably rules out everything but the oil lines there. You could ask the shop if they replaced the o-rings for the lines and hope to get an honest answer, but I would still bring it back. If the valve covers, timing covers, and thermostat gasket have all been replaced, whatever is leaking is something they should have replaced or done a better job at reassembling. Just my two cents. There are some power steering lines over there that sometimes can be the same oil color. Maybe a slight chance they caused a leak there when they moved the power steering pump aside.

These are the oil cooler line o-rings that can leak. I just replaced them tonight. They are gray. Easy to do.

How much work is it to get to the o rings? Does alternator need to be removed?

Good question. I think it would be very hard to remove and replace the o-rings with the alternator in place. I won't know until I put the alternator back in. With the alternator out you can see your work. Even if you could access the single e-torx bolt that holds the lines on while the alternator was still in, you would be working completely blind. It will take a gasket hook tool to take the old o-rings off. If that is indeed the source of your leak, once the alternator is out it would take 15 minutes to replace them. One bolt to remove, pull the lines loose, replace o-rings, put lines back in, and replace the bolt.

Yeah i need to confirm the a source of the leak first. So did you also change the thermostat gasket or just the o rings? Also did you access the lines from top or bottom of car?

My oil thermostat gasket was leaking. I'm not sure if my oil line o-rings were leaking or not so I did them proactively. I accessed from the top. Your shop did not replace the e-torx bolts with hex bolts so you would have to remove the alternator and move the power steering pump out of the way to be able to replace the oil thermostat gasket. You should yell at the shop for not changing the bolts to hex.


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[QUOTE=Unicorn;1157064]My oil thermostat gasket was leaking. I'm not sure if my oil line o-rings were leaking or not so I did them proactively. I accessed from the top. Your shop did not replace the e-torx bolts with hex bolts so you would have to remove the alternator and move the power steering pump out of the way to be able to replace the oil thermostat gasket. You should yell at the shop for not changing the bolts to hex.


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Well i hope i never have to replace the thermostat gasket :again :) should be good for another 100k miles. I really hope the leak source is the o rings and not the timing cover or valve cover! That is a lot of work and money.

[QUOTE=Bmwfvr;1157065]

But if they just did the work they should make good on it.


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[QUOTE=Unicorn;1157067]Yeah i need to prove it though. I am probably gonna use die to find the source of the leak.

I'd still take it back and see what they say. $7 dye should help a lot. Hopefully it was a BMW indy shop that did the work. Get a UV light. Really though. If they did the valve covers, timing covers, and thermostat gasket, the line o-rings was an oversight by them. There really is nothing else to leak right there.


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yes it was a BMW specialist. they only work on BMWs.

So where does this issue stand?


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So took the car back to the shop today. Tech spent about an hour looking. They confirmed no leaks from vcg, timing cover or oil cooler thermostat. They also confirmed that they did replace the oil lines orings. They think the oil is residual from old leaks, which i dont agree with cause it's definitely new (golden color oil).

I am going to wait and see if oil level drops over time. Not sure what else to do.

Old caked on oil can move down when the engine is hot. Maybe look like new. Did you get their inspection back in writing? May help in the future if they are willing to write down that you brought it in for an issue. I mentioned dye in the past and you said you may use it. If you put the dye in your oil and it shows up, it is not residual. Do the dye. Take a picture.


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I wasn't given anything in writing. Dye is next. This may sound dumb but is dye safe to use in the engine? I came across a thread that talks about dye sticking to internals and an engine flush was necessary to clean it up.

It's your call but it has been a proven method for years. I don't see another option for you unless you wait for the leak to get bad. If it is even a leak. I have never heard anything substantial about it being bad for your engine. It's thin so it just works its way out of leaks. I think it takes almost two little bottles for the 8.5-9 quarts these engines hold. You can always do an oil change after you get confirmation. Bye bye dye.


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Ok will give dye a chance :).. thanks for your input.

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Check your vacuum pump and the o rings on your VANOS solenoids too.

Those were covered when the timing cover gasket was replaced. Plus the vacuum pump is on the right side. My leak is on the driver side.

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My worst leaks were, in order:

1. oil cooler thermostat gasket
2. oil pressure sender crush washer
3. VANOS solenoid o-rings
4. one of the eccentric shaft sensor sealing elements
5. upper timing case cover gaskets

Replaced every gasket and seal on the top of the engine - finally no more leaks. It's my opinion that all seals on this engine will leak so long as it has the stock (hot) thermostat.


Dye is really easy to use, cheap, and effective. Clean everything first with brake cleaner, add some dye, and drive. Will show up right away. If you're really concerned about the dye, use spray on foot powder - just spray it all over the outside of a clean engine, and new leaks are really easy to spot.

Been there. Changed all that and more :)..i think what's left is oil pan gaskets (upper and lower) ..not leaking currently. I am already considering selling the x5 and get done with it. Wife is eyeing a 2018 Ford Explorer Sport..my 2013 535 still runs well so i am keeping it. Love the car!

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Go with Tesla or BMW i3 BEV. That's what I did and no more maintenance and leaking fluids. My X5 has been in the garage since January 1st and I'm not even rushing fixing it. I may or may sell it only time will tell but in the meantime, I am enjoying the EV.

You like the i3? The X5 is the wife's DD, but my work is trying to hire her in, and based on what I've read I'm ready to pick up an i3 and that will our DD and we'll drive to work together. It's only 10 miles one way to work.



Attempting to keep an E36 and an E70 running as dailies turned out to be an awful idea.

The X5 is my wife's. She is stay at home mom. She doesnt work. She drives it around for errands, take kids to school, shopping..etc. we tend to drive it on weekends as a family SUV. My 535 is my 535 ya know what i mean :) .. it's my DD. I work 2 miles away from my house. Seriously i take the freeway route (2 miles longer) just to get the engine temp high enough and battery charging :)...when the weather is warm enough i bike to work...but traffic is getting bad with a fast growing population in Reno.

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I love the i3 and it is quick! Feels quicker than my X5 V8 because of the instant torque. Can't complain.