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-   -   Transmission kicks when switching to reverse. (https://xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-forums/x5-e70-forum/109971-transmission-kicks-when-switching-reverse.html)

Bmwfvr 03-15-2019 04:06 PM

Transmission kicks when switching to reverse.
 
i have been noticing my x5 kicking/jumping when I switch to Reverse gear. doesn't happen in the morning when i leave the house to work. Seems to happen more when the car is warmed up. I have had the transmission serviced by BMW dealership. they replaced the pan, filter and did a fluid flush I believe. Is the transmission going bad?!!

robnitro 03-15-2019 06:34 PM

Did it start happening after the fluid change? If so, you might be low a bit. The level check is a pain.

Also there is a mechatronic seal that sometimes starts to leak and it will cause issues with reverse because it leaks pressure, which might explain why it's not happening when cold-fluid is thicker then.

Bmwfvr 03-15-2019 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robnitro (Post 1157534)
Did it start happening after the fluid change? If so, you might be low a bit. The level check is a pain.

Also there is a mechatronic seal that sometimes starts to leak and it will cause issues with reverse because it leaks pressure, which might explain why it's not happening when cold-fluid is thicker then.

No it was happening before the fluid change. In fact the transmission didnt feel right in all gears before the fluid change. Shifting got very smooth afterwards except for the reverse gear. BMW tech noted it in the report and his Recommendation was to replace the transmission with an estimated cost of ~$5000!!

So the mechatronic is something i can replace without taking the pan off?

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Hack213 03-15-2019 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bmwfvr (Post 1157552)
No it was happening before the fluid change. In fact the transmission didnt feel right in all gears before the fluid change. Shifting got very smooth afterwards except for the reverse gear. BMW tech noted it in the report and his Recommendation was to replace the transmission with an estimated cost of ~$5000!!

So the mechatronic is something i can replace without taking the pan off?

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Mechatronics are inside transmission pan. YouTube it

Bmwfvr 03-15-2019 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hack213 (Post 1157557)
Mechatronics are inside transmission pan. YouTube it

Ok i just youtubed it. Is this supposed to be replaced as part of the transmission service?

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Hack213 03-15-2019 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bmwfvr (Post 1157559)
Ok i just youtubed it. Is this supposed to be replaced as part of the transmission service?

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Only when they fail.. you would get a code and no it's not part of the drain and refill service

robnitro 03-15-2019 11:12 PM

Mechatronic sleeves, theyre rubber pieces that go between the mechatronic(valve body) and the trans.
When they start to leak the transmission acts up. I saw some kit on fcpeuro but don't have the link anymore
Here's a link from eBay to see how they look https://www.ebay.com/itm/MECHATRONIC...d=183185065492

SlickGT1 03-16-2019 12:36 AM

I suggest taking the valve body out and cleaning off the filters on the shift solenoids.

robnitro 03-16-2019 01:48 AM

Can you clean those screens without removing the solenoids or having to replace their o rings?

https://www.rangerovers.net/forum/6-...ky-shifts.html a link with pictures of that seal which goes bad

ard 03-16-2019 03:09 AM

We recommend the sleeve be replaced during a normal service if there are symptoms. But if you roll into a dealer and just ask for a fluid change, they just do that.

Few dealers ...actually none.. Will do work inside the trans case. As you've discovered... 'Just replace it'


Plenty of serviceable parts, need to find a trans shop if you can't DIY

GL

SlickGT1 03-16-2019 11:29 AM

The screens are held on by plastic clips. You can leave solenoids in place and pop screens off. You may not have to do even that. The crap will be on the outside of the screens. But since you in there, you should remove screens to be sure.

I recommend this because first fluid and filter change I did, crud got loosened up, from filter gasket to be exact, and ended up blocking my solenoids. My reverse became atrocious when car was hot. Cold, no problems. I replaced my solenoids, because I already had them, but it was obvious when I saw the reverse solenoid screen that I caused the blockage. With the filter change.

The stupid filter has a long ass tune that goes up into the trans. The tube has the gasket on it. Pink in color. My gasket was baked on, and removing the little baked on shit was nearly impossible in a hole that’s an inch diameter and 6” deep. Dumbest filter in the world. Anyway, if you see pink shit on your solenoids. You know what happened.

Bmwfvr 03-18-2019 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlickGT1 (Post 1157605)
The screens are held on by plastic clips. You can leave solenoids in place and pop screens off. You may not have to do even that. The crap will be on the outside of the screens. But since you in there, you should remove screens to be sure.

I recommend this because first fluid and filter change I did, crud got loosened up, from filter gasket to be exact, and ended up blocking my solenoids. My reverse became atrocious when car was hot. Cold, no problems. I replaced my solenoids, because I already had them, but it was obvious when I saw the reverse solenoid screen that I caused the blockage. With the filter change.

The stupid filter has a long ass tune that goes up into the trans. The tube has the gasket on it. Pink in color. My gasket was baked on, and removing the little baked on shit was nearly impossible in a hole that’s an inch diameter and 6” deep. Dumbest filter in the world. Anyway, if you see pink shit on your solenoids. You know what happened.

so if i had to remove the pan again to address the shifting issue, will i be able to reuse it? pan and filter were replaced like 2 months ago. I'd hate to have to buy a new kit!! I paid the dealer $700 for the transmission service :(

robnitro 03-18-2019 05:58 AM

You can reuse the pan and if you want-collect and reuse the fluid. I would just get new fluid though. First change is 65% of the fluid is new, second change is 85% new since about 4 is left in the tc when you drain it.
Unfortunately dealer won't do any of these parts because they are all about replacing the trans.

SlickGT1 03-18-2019 09:17 PM

Dayamn. 700 would get you the sleeve, all the solenoids and zf magic sauce, but you would have to do it yourself. I am not sure you will get away with reusing the gasket, but it’s possible if it doesn’t rip when removing. It’s not exactly rubber as I remember it. The filter you can reuse. But honestly, it’s cheap insurance to replace.

Baby Unicorn Taco 03-18-2019 10:51 PM

You have been doing some other gasket work for oil leaks, etc. The vacuum leaks can wreak havoc on the transmission shifting correct? From what I read, when vacuum leaks are fixed, improved transmission shifting is a positive side effect. Have you completely finished the other work?

Bmwfvr 03-18-2019 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unicorn (Post 1157876)
You have been doing some other gasket work for oil leaks, etc. The vacuum leaks can wreak havoc on the transmission shifting correct? From what I read, when vacuum leaks are fixed, improved transmission shifting is a positive side effect. Have you completely finished the other work?

Well since i addressed the cooleant leak i haven't seen any oil leaks. Call me crazy. My theory is that what i thought it was oil may have been just tainted coolant pulling oil residues with it as it runs down..it has been 3 days now, bottom is bone dry..nothing on the diff cover...i am hoping i am done with oil leaks (for now :))...

To be honest the Reverse gear issue doesn't bother me that much. If i don't address it will it cause further problems down the road??

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ard 03-18-2019 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bmwfvr (Post 1157877)

To be honest the Reverse gear issue doesn't bother me that much. If i don't address it will it cause further problems down the road??


I think it can (might).


A trans uses fluid - fluid flow ad fludi pressure to move components around is a complex dance of spinning parts. WHen it 'jolts' it is due to parts not being 'right'. I dont know enough about this one to make specific conclusions tho


Over the years it has become clear that a standard 'drain, pan and refill' is a good plan WHEN YOUR TRANS IS ACTING PERFECTLY.



But when a trans has (perhaps)been run hard and hoit...when seals have heated and maybe shrunk... then it is recommended a bit more maintenance been done. BMW dealers WILL NOT do this. (There are no BMW parts for this as I recall- they gotta buy ZF parts. Picture vampire in the morning sun....)


There are more and more fine DIYs here and on Bimmerfest around these trans. Take your time, plan the repair.


GL

Baby Unicorn Taco 03-19-2019 10:17 AM

I know you have been working on some gaskets in your X. Were the transmission issues still there after you were done? Can't vacuum leaks lead to transmission-like problems like you describe? I know ard will correct me if I am wrong.

Bmwfvr 03-19-2019 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unicorn (Post 1157900)
I know you have been working on some gaskets in your X. Were the transmission issues still there after you were done? Can't vacuum leaks lead to transmission-like problems like you describe? I know ard will correct me if I am wrong.

Yes the transmission issue is still happening. It's only when i switch to reverse and only after i have driven the car for a while ( warmed up). It has been like this almost since i bought the X used with 80k miles back in 2014. Never towed anything and my wife doesn't drive aggressively.

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SlickGT1 03-19-2019 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bmwfvr (Post 1157902)
Yes the transmission issue is still happening. It's only when i switch to reverse and only after i have driven the car for a while ( warmed up). It has been like this almost since i bought the X used with 80k miles back in 2014. Never towed anything and my wife doesn't drive aggressively.

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I think someone did a service on your trans before you. Caused this problem like I did. And sold the car cause they freak out that the tranny was toast.

Bmwfvr 03-19-2019 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlickGT1 (Post 1157944)
I think someone did a service on your trans before you. Caused this problem like I did. And sold the car cause they freak out that the tranny was toast.

It's a possibility. What did you do to cause the problem? Just a simple drain and fill?

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ard 03-19-2019 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlickGT1 (Post 1157605)
I recommend this because first fluid and filter change I did, crud got loosened up, from filter gasket to be exact, and ended up blocking my solenoids. My reverse became atrocious when car was hot. Cold, no problems. I replaced my solenoids, because I already had them, but it was obvious when I saw the reverse solenoid screen that I caused the blockage. With the filter change..

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bmwfvr (Post 1157950)
What did you do to cause the problem? Just a simple drain and fill?




Im guessing he did a late service, didnt fully remove crud and failed seals- those things then lodged in the screens and solenodis- causing major shift issues


My guess :cool:

Bmwfvr 03-19-2019 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ard (Post 1157962)
Im guessing he did a late service, didnt fully remove crud and failed seals- those things then lodged in the screens and solenodis- causing major shift issues


My guess :cool:

LOL..dementia :)

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ard 03-19-2019 11:13 PM

;)


To be honest, it wasnt super obvious...


Over the years, we are collecting more and more posts on folks that have dug into the valve body, solenoids and such on these trannies...dont be afraid.

Bmwfvr 03-19-2019 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ard (Post 1157966)
;)


To be honest, it wasnt super obvious...


Over the years, we are collecting more and more posts on folks that have dug into the valve body, solenoids and such on these trannies...dont be afraid.

I am not afraid to do it. I believe valve cover gaskets were a much harder job and i was able to pull it off. Was my first major repair after the coolant system overhaul.
i paid the dealer $700 to do the service so i dont have to do it. Now i gotta redo the job :(

Is it pretty much this? https://youtu.be/dCvmdo1bLLw


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smassey321 03-20-2019 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bmwfvr (Post 1157967)
I am not afraid to do it. I believe valve cover gaskets were a much harder job and i was able to pull it off. Was my first major repair after the coolant system overhaul.
i paid the dealer $700 to do the service so i dont have to do it. Now i gotta redo the job :(

Is it pretty much this? https://youtu.be/dCvmdo1bLLw


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That video link is a good DIY for removing the valve body and replacing the seals between it and the housing. There are a few youtubes that show solenoid replacement if you go that route.

josiahg52 03-20-2019 07:21 AM

I did my first-and-only fluid and pan/filter change at 115k or 118k miles. Over 30k miles later and no issues. Yet. Did I get lucky or was there not a lot of crud in there? My X5 is a road warrior. Almost 72k miles in 3.5 years and then another 70k in the next 4.5 years by me. Maybe in another 20k I'll do another fluid exchange and change the screens at the same time.

SlickGT1 03-20-2019 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by josiahg52 (Post 1157976)
I did my first-and-only fluid and pan/filter change at 115k or 118k miles. Over 30k miles later and no issues. Yet. Did I get lucky or was there not a lot of crud in there? My X5 is a road warrior. Almost 72k miles in 3.5 years and then another 70k in the next 4.5 years by me. Maybe in another 20k I'll do another fluid exchange and change the screens at the same time.

Not lucky. It’s normal for it to go fine. But sometimes people get shit loosened up and it gets to the valve solenoids. My case it was my fault. I should have picked out every little piece of that filter gasket. I fixed it too. But it cost me a left nut in solenoids and the magic sauce zf fluid.

robnitro 03-20-2019 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by josiahg52 (Post 1157976)
I did my first-and-only fluid and pan/filter change at 115k or 118k miles. Over 30k miles later and no issues. Yet. Did I get lucky or was there not a lot of crud in there? My X5 is a road warrior. Almost 72k miles in 3.5 years and then another 70k in the next 4.5 years by me. Maybe in another 20k I'll do another fluid exchange and change the screens at the same time.

I did mine at 110k, no issues. Even used the "wrong" fluid pentosin atf1 which fcp said was legit.. Hah. 6 months later I went with redline d6 and had occasional limp mode. Turns out I was about a qt low, because the fill procedure is bull if you aren't perfectly atomically level lol. Then I heard the Ford 6r folks do a slight overfill anyway it's the same trans so I put another qt in without lifting the car, just a little downhill parked so yeah, slight overfill. No issues since then. I should've done the seals and I will this summer and clean the solenoids in case. Just insurance... Thanks the trans did limp mode to warn me but why the heck is there not a level sensor? Fluid can leak and you wouldn't know until the limp mode kicks in! Stupid idiots without a dipstick or level sensor, they should be kicked in the nuts.


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