E70 Lowering Options - HELP..
 

Okay, so I’ve read the long thread on here about using H&R lowering springs (https://xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-forums/...lots-pics.html). I know Eibach makes a set of springs. I’m interested in dropping about an inch, but without sacrifice to existing ride quality. As much as I have searched and read online, I can’t seem to find any definitive answers on how the ride quality is affected.

I’ve also not been able to find out much about a multitude of other options:

AC Schintzer (https://www.ac-schnitzer.de/en/bmw/x...-e70-3552.html)
ISC Triple S Lowering Coils (https://iscsuspension-na.com/lexus-w...ing-p126116224)..

The AC Schnitzer Coils are of course German origin, and have TUV certification papers online, meaning they have probably gone through much more thorough testing that many other options?
And the ISC Triple S coils say they are specifically designed for “Comfort in mind and to work with factory shocks”

Making both of these options interesting..

And then there are so many more I can’t seem to find anyone using either..

Vogtland Springs (https://www.americanspeed.com.au/vog...wering-35mm-fr)
Megan Racing Springs (https://meganracing.com/suspension/t...-ls-bx507-4710)
Dinan Racing Springs (https://www.dinancars.com/product/d1...0-x5m-e71-x6m/)
And their ride quality and handling kit that is supposed ot be paired with their springs (https://www.dinancars.com/product/d1...0-x5m-e71-x6m/)

And then I also came across these ‘GodSpeed Project’ springs (https://godspeedproject.com/traction...0-2007-13.html), which are the only ones I’ve found that actually list a spring rate, but because I have nothing to compare it to (even a stock spring rate), it’s pretty meaningless..

I’ll be honest, the ride is already on the firm side (which I like), so I really don’t want to go any firmer..
My main objective is reducing the wheel well gap, but I’m not willing to mess up the ride and handling dynamics to do it..
As such I really don’t want to go more than an 1” lower..
I don’t want to end up bottoming out going through severe dips in the road at speed, something she currently handles very well..
Nor do I want to have to worry about being able to properly align the car..

Anyone have any experience with or know anywhere to find more information on any or all of these other options?

Anyone know the spring rates for the stock springs? And linear vs progressive?


Would be most useful to know in order to then specify replacements/performance upgrades.


With other performance cars Ive been into, this is essential. Marketing blather is just that.


Frankly, I wouldnt be the least bit surprised if they are all the same, or very close


So I would CALL the guys at godspeed. Id bet $$ they know factory specs... AND honor them with your business if they have a product that works

Best way to reduce wheel well gap is oversized tires :-)
I can't find the thread but it makes the x5 look like the Dakar rally, not nasty like those jeeps with oversized tires.

yup. meaty and tough. Not like a stripper on Lucite heels.


Who WAS that guy?.....

I'm thinking of going with eibach springs and B8 shocks up front and lowering the rear via computer

Dinan springs are only for x5m

anyone know how sport suspension shocks differ from regular shocks?

https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...diagId=33_1378

Does BMW pair them with unique sport springs? or are the springs the same sport vs non-sport?

I have no idea. maybe sport suspension is shocks and springs are what the X5m comes with?

Oversize tires change the final gear ratio. Acceleration will be slower to some degree. Wider tires should be on wider rims to maintain handling characteristics. I suggest the H&R lowering kit and spacers. Doing both will get you where you want to go. There shouldn't be any difference in the ride quality as the lowering springs are the same spring rate as stock. It is also the least expensive route. After you have installed the springs and spacers you will need to get an alignment.

H&R is too aggressive of a drop after they settle in. ideally id like the dinan springs but will settle with eibach

I have had H&R kit installed for many years. I have 4.6 with 87s and Velocity 17MM spacers. There has been no settling in. Vehicle is still the same height as when springs were installed.

It's inconsequential since our 1st gear is super short as it is. The rest of the gears are still short, only the 8speed gave a good final ratio.

Yes, bigger tires will induce more inertia, but that's not as bad as those who run heavy 20 in ruins.

I don't know what inconsequential is to you. To me anything that reduces 0-60 time, negatively impacts handling and ride is not inconsequential.

As long as the total height of the rim and tire is greater, low ratio gears or otherwise, acceleration time from 0-60 is always reduced. An exception could be if there was one less shift before 60. Of course, the degree of impact depends on how much greater total height is increased.

You are correct that weight of rims is a factor. There might be taller rims/tires that are lighter weight and don't increase total height than what OP has, but, in comparison to other methods of filling the wheel wells it would be an expensive route to go.

I too am leaning heavily toward the Eibachs. A few times each year they come down closer to $300. We put H&R in the E53, but seems like 40-50% of the E70 guys think they're too springy. All the Eibach feedback seemed positive. Anyway...lining up deletes this month, so maybe springs in the spring...

On my other cars, the only approach that truly retained 'performance' was a coilover- so you can retain the same suspension travel, just 'move' it lower Added benefit is to be able to adjust spring rate (linear, progressive) and match that to the damper (Shock).


Not a real thing with X5s I guess. Or more likely nobody tracking X5s so you really dont mind the trade offs.


Wonder if OP talked w Godspeed.

I've spoken with godspeed and the guy who answered was pretty rude. Didn't really seem to be motivated to sell their products or provide any other info. Basically he said buy godspeed springs because we have the cheapest springs. That's it!:dunno:

I think sport struts have the electronic component that makes the strut stiffer when activating sport button near the shifter. It's not every noticeable but yet again, I have 12yo struts.

The key to improving X5 handling is lowering the center of gravity, increasing width of the stance, heavier sway bars and a strut tower brace. The goal being to reduce understeer. Just lowering, regardless of how you get there, will not be a dramatic improvement in handling.

got a link for better sway bars & strut tower brace?

Sway bars I have are Eibach and strut tower brace is Dinan. Eibach no longer offers the sway bars. I am not sure if Dinan still offers strut tower brace. I know some have run across Eibach bars on Ebay.

Couple things... You mention the ride quality should be the same with if the spring rates are the same, that is not the case unfortunately since the springs and struts have to operate in harmony. Lowering springs with OEM rates are going to be paired with struts which operating at a lower ride height which it wasn't intended for.

I agree with you on increasing performance when possible, the first mod I did the day I brought home my X5D was replace the heavy OEM 19" wheels on RFTs to 21" Style 612M on Michelin PSS and saved about 12lbs a corner. However the short gearing and thin 325/30 rear tire leave something to be desired so once these PSSs are toast I will run some Continental 5Ps with higher aspect ratios, front will go up some size from 35 to 40 and the rears will jump up 2 sizes from 30 to 325/40. Heavier tire, slower acceleration? Yup. Is the lower rpm at highway speeds and added comfort from the taller tires worth it? Absolutely. If 0-60 times were so important that all mods tailored to acceleration then I would simply not buy a 5,000lb SAV lol. Thankfully I have a 550whp E61 which does a nice job satiating that craving.

The added bonus of the taller tires is less fender gap. We will see once I install the new tires but I might be able to get away with only installing Eibachs springs up front and coding the rear air down just a hair to match. Ideally offering an OEM like ride with minimal fender gap and added comfort from taller tires. If it doesn't pan out this way then ponying up for KW coilovers is next. Pricey but worth it IMO. I have ran them on all 3 of my vehicles.

I test fit a 285/45/21 up front and unfortunately it didn't clear the upper spindle joint (and it probably would have rubbed on the liner at lock) but it gets me fired up for the meatier tires. IMO a little 1-1.2" drop would be all it needs to look proper.

More pics in my build thread:
https://xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-forums/...og-m57-x5.html
As for sway bars there are only 2 companies I know of that make a rear sway bar (no fronts). I run the Ultra Racing rear sway. I minor improvement over stock, the E70s could use much more robust sways.

Evan

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/se...=w1300-h976-no

The H&R drop is less than two inches. There is no noticeable change in ride though there is improved steering wheel feedback.

Increasing both unsprung weight and increasing distance from the bottom to the top of the tire negatively impacts both acceleration and handling. I don't know if OP cares but I thought it worthwhile to mention. Some low profile tires like Continental Extreme Contacts have soft enough sidewalls that the ride feels much the same. Unless one is tracking, coilovers don't pass my value equation of amount of improvement for total dollars spent. You can spend far less and have much better handling than can ever be safely used on the street. I have always questioned having suspension that had very many adjustments. The tendency was to spend too much time messing with adjustments when more track time would have been far more beneficial.

It all depends on what is important to the owner. Personally, I didn't want to compromise much comfort but was willing to for significant improvement in handling and performance. It took some trial and error and some risk but all were achievable.

I did KWV3’s to lower mine and 50k miles later lover them still.

Over sized tires....I may be in the market for 4 new shoes. How big can you go without running into rubbing issues? Right now I am 275/40/20

Wouldn't that depend on YOUR suspension and how much YOU lowered it?!?!?

For the front we’re limited by the upper control arm as it’s only a couple inches away with stock 275/40/20

If he is on stock rims..if running a different offset from stick, all bets off




HOWEVER, if all you want to do is change rubber size... LOOK at your current fitment. Look at clearance from diameter and section width. Going from 275 to 285 is 5mm 'fatter' on each side. about 1/4 inch.... just a bunch of math and measuring.

In general, wider tires should be put on wider rims. Best way to know how low you can go is lower it and then use the adjustment capability to see how far you can go based on existing tires and wheels. From there you can determine if wider or taller tires will hit or fit. Be sure to consider suspension travel necessary for bumpy roads and around curves. I would add spacers before wider tires and wheels as that will help fill the wheel wells and improve handling, and, cost much less.

Good advice from most.

ARD, are your eh same ARD on the Porsche boards? Just curious, its an unusual name.

I dont want to go wider, I am wide enough. My aftermarket wheels give me some clearance to the control arms. I don't remember their measurements right now. I just want to go taller on the tires to Gainesville some sidewall. I know some have gone taller sidewalls on stock suspension and lifted. By my eyeballs the tallest part of the tire front to back never gets below the fender liners, meaning we would all be limited in front relatively similarly, lowered or not. It woudl be in front, wheels turned and they rub the fenders if the tire is too tall.

I was hoping someone here had gone taller on stock or lowered suspension and had some experience to post their results. As for how low, I am on KWV3’s and as low as they can go in back, and then the car is set to a level ride heigh from there. It’s not really that low.

Can you post some pics of your X5? I run KW on all my other BMWs and am considering them for my X5D, curious to see how low "lowest" is and also, how is the ride quality at your ride height?

Regarding tire size, as you can see in my post above a 45/21 won't clear the upper control arm, a 40/21 will. You can look up the rolling diameter of those Continental tires and plug it into a fitment calculator such as www.willtheyfit.com to get an idea how other brand/size/aspect ratio tires will fit. Now if it will rub since you are lowered that is a different question and something you are going to have to figure out on your own, the easy solution is to raise your X5 if it rubs.

Once my Michelin PSSs die I plan to run a 325/45/21 and 285/40/21 tire. I think it should work no problem with my stock non-sport suspension but I plan to lower a tad with Eibach springs up front and coding the rear to remove any excessive gap. KWs are the backup if the ride quality isn't up to par.

I will be a helpful reference for you once this is executed but in the meantime you can use the info from my research thus far on what will fit and translate that to your situation with KWs and aftermarket wheels.

Evan

Don't lose track that clearance can vary by model and or wheel offset and width as well as size tires. Be sure you are comparing apples to apples.

https://pbase.com/mrcjb60290/image/167998216.jpg

https://pbase.com/image/169803824.jpg

Hard to see from these pictures, 1.75” between the top of the tire and the fender, at teh wheel center.

How is the ride quality at that ride height? Do you have experience with the OEM suspension? curious how it compares, thanks!

Ride quality has been great. I think it rides better than stock part of the trick is you can’t go too low in the front door it gets choppy. My car in those pictures has a rear set as low as it will go, and the front is set so that the car is level. I also do not have runflat tires, which greatly increases the ride comfort. I would not go back myself.

Thanks for the info and nice to hear the rear seems to perform well at a lower height. Regarding the rear specifically, how is the ride quality with them fully dumped, do you notice the lack of travel? I have ran KWs on other E39s and E61 with them as low as KW recommends and they performed well but you definitely could tell I was asking a lot of the strut with minimal travel to work with. Curious if its the same on the X5 or being an "SAV" with more suspension travel if the KWs offer more consistent performance regardless of ride height. Hope this makes sense!