Transmission Help - Going back to Park
 

Good afternoon. I've searched for options and started diagnosing, but would like some feedback and next steps. X5 is an '08 3.0 with 57K.

It rained hard last night, I don't know if that'll do anything as it hasn't before, but this being 2020, you never know, so I am mentioning it.

I got in the vehicle this morning to run an errand. Started up just fine and I switched into Drive fine. I lifted my foot off the brake to coast down my driveway and noticed it was barely creeping along. I gave it some gas and it started a bit but felt sluggish. I put it in reverse, came back, having never left the drive and put it in park. Turned it off and then back on again and now when I switch D or N, it swaps back to Park immediately. It has done a few different things this morning:

1. Gave me a "Trans Malfunction - Transmission position P may not be possible. Set parking brake when completely stopped" warning.
2. Then it would stay in Park and would immediately go back if I changed to D or R.

While searching online, I disconnected the battery and reconnected it to try to reset the codes/transmission. I have a Check Engine light now with P0015. I'll swap and clean the sensors to see if that goes away, but that shouldn't be the transmission. I'm still getting the issue where it goes right back into PARK.

Still, engine starts just fine, revs just fine. When I switch out of Park, to any gear, it goes right back in PARK. I've checked to make sure doors are closed, seat belt is fastened.

I'm at a loss now and could use some help please.

Thanks in advance.

Was the car out in the rain?


;)

Did P0015 show up with this issue? or has it been there for a while?






Why am I thinking BMW had an issue with some cars, quite a while back, with parking pawl issues, errors. Maybe a recall? Jsut a dead recollection, probably crossing my wires.....edit. Found some E53 stuff...




Also, do you have a BMW code reader? Might be a ton of errors your generic OBD is missing....

Yes, it was out in the rain. Trying to thin the herd so I can fit it in the garage. :) My first thought was something got wet, but I tried to check everywhere.

I don't have a BMW reader, just a generic one. The P0015 came on this morning also.
It was a PENDING CODE at first and then came on as a normal trouble code.

I've tried to erase the codes, but it came back. CEL is on now.

Still not wanting to get out out of Park.

I'm getting these two faults displayed.

Like I said earlier. Everything was good yesterday, its just that this morning when I got in to drive, it wouldn't go anywhere and then I got this display and it'll immediately go back into Park.

I'm guessing the rain is the culprit. I believe all communication to the transmission is via CAN and if the wiring is shorted out due to water, you will get a trans malfunction. I'm guessing you will have a code for a CAN communication error.

If you have an android device, buy a cheap ELM 327 Bluetooth interface on amazon and try my app which will read DME (Engine ECU) BMW specific codes.



https://xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-forums/...p-android.html

FWIW. Those are just generic 'driveline fault' messages. Perhaps 100 or 200 codes/errors might result in those. They really dont do much in term of diagnosis. Its like posting a picture of the CEL. ;)


Could be rain and CAN errors, but Im not sure that will lock tranny to park. I seem to recall it will go to a default failafe mode to let it move. But really not sure. Let us know when you get BMW codes.

Thanks. I don't have an android device but I may get one or borrow one for this.

Is there another good way to get BMW codes or is a $100+ specific scan tool or something like this the only way? I've seen Carly to connect to a phone or plug in devices such as Autophix.

I'll work on getting the codes this week.

There's a few ways but they're all more complicated or expensive :-/ The next way is to use a computer with diagnostic software (INPA or ISTA) and a K+D CAN cable which would be around $20, but that's fairly technical. I believe Carly can do it or you can get a Foxwell handheld scanner. Those are both more expensive options.

Thank you! I got a scanner from Amazon (had a gift card) so it'll be here on Friday; the Autophox 7910. I'm sure I can use it with other things also.

I'll hopefully report back on Friday with the codes.

I've been starting the car daily to see if it was rain/wet and it'll all magically go away or if any symptoms change. It'll go into gear at first and then will throw the "drive moderately..." message.

Good move.

Worst case it helps this on time and you never use it again...

There were several codes I was able to pull out. One even said "Low Brake Fluid" which I'm surprised at, but I'll check that shortly as it had a recent checkup.

Here are the displays. It is still going back in to park. If there are other modules or areas I need to check, I can do that.

Does the scanner tell you if the codes are active or in shadow memory? These vehicles will store historical codes so even though you can read them, they may have occurred long ago. I'll have to look at the wiring diagram to see if it might be something obvious. I got the parking gear sensor message before but it's because I messed up reinstalling the valve body & didn't have the sensor engaged. You would get the same message if you tried to engage the mechanical neutral override. In fact, I would cycle the neutral override and see if that helps. You can do that by getting the red handle from the emergency tools in the trunk (whatever the back area is called), removing the rubber from the bottom of your cup holders, and removing the false bottom on the cup holder nearest the driver. Set the parking brake, insert the red handle into the socket below, turn it, and release. The transmission should go into neutral and then go back into park.

I'll try that. It has been towed before (long story) and I had to use that.

This morning, I was able to get it to drive and it would stay. I'm not confident to drive it out of the drive way though. I went forward a bit, then put it in reverse, then it didn't want to move and went automatically back into park. Shortly after that, the scanner was delivered and I pulled the codes. I can erase all the codes and restart and see what will come up if that will help.

yes, do that

Cleared every fault. Started her back up again. She would go into gear and I drove just down the driveway and stopped. Put it in reverse and got an error again.

Still goes immediately back to Park.

Repulled codes.

Well that's a different fault... that means the transmission thinks it is slipping badly and parked itself to protect against further damage. I'm guessing it's not accurate and something else is wrong though.

Read post #2


https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1410443


This feels weird...your errors are all over the place. And doesn't seem to match up with rain, getting wet, etc.


Say...how is the battery and charge status? Wonder of low power/current to some modules is causing them to be confused?


Any history w you tranny that might be important?

I had several different faults when I first ran the codes so I erased all of them, re-ran the scan without doing anything else and got zero (with no changes). Then recranked the car, put it in drive, felt the gears engage (slight shake), and pulled forward a little. I put it in reverse and got that most recent error, the gear symbol on the center display, and the "drive moderately to BMW service" message on the console. That's when I scanned the codes again and got that clutch code. I can do it all again this morning and see if anything new comes up.

History of the vehicle. A family friend owned it since new. In 2017, my parents bought it, had 53K on it. For the next 3 years, my parents barely drove it, to a tune of <1000 miles/year. They're in their 80's and mostly drove their other car if they needed to get around. They then decided the X5 was not comfortable enough and wasn't driven enough and I bought it from them. They took good care of it, had it serviced through BMW mostly, and I got it was ~56K on it in March. Since March, I've put about 1200 miles on it (work mostly). It's gotten more use in the last 3 months than it is used to in the last couple years really.

I haven't noticed anything with the transmission and it always drove very well since I've had it. I was shocked Monday when this started.

When I look at all the codes that were there that I think are drivetrain/transmission related:

A0B1 Input, selector-lever position, implausible.
507B Parking-gear sensors implausible
55C3 AWD limp-home control activated. No DSC specified nominal torque
A817 Steering-wheel angle invalid

The ones above were there and I had cleared them. I'll see if any come back up today. It seems like it's a selector/programming input type issue. But I am only guessing, have no real clue.

Had 3 GWS Gear Selector Switch faults yesterday too before I wiped everything.

E099 Message,damper program
A833 Button, deblocking, jammed
A83A Undervoltage

Also the reversing camera is giving me a Transport Mode Active fault which keeps coming back. Just for that section which is strange.

I did unhook the battery on Monday thinking maybe I can reset the system while I was checking to make sure I had a good connection. Wondering if the "undervoltage" came from that. I didn't see that code come back after I wiped everything.

I'll recheck things today and can do whatever you suggest. I've been hesitant to drive it out of the drive way, but can if needed.

Tried things again this morning. All faults cleared. Strangely, one continues to stay...
Rear camera... A811 Transport Mode Active

Don't know why that is staying just with the reversing camera.

Anyway, with everything cleared, I started it back up, put it in drive and it would go back to park. When I put into drive and give it a little gas, it'll stay, and she'll move forward a bit. I made a loop around the drive/yard to end up back to where I was. Put it in reverse to back it to it's location and got the "gear icon" in front of me and the the "drive moderately" display on the main screen again.

Pulled codes:

1 in EGS Transmission Control

4F91 Ratio monitoring, clutch A

This code has come both yesterday evening and this morning. When put into drive or reverse, immediately goes back to park again.

Any ideas on what to try next or check?

It's worth checking your battery if it's old as it will cause all sorts of weird faults - even with the engine running. However, I'm beginning to wonder if you have an actual transmission fault. Your most recent codes seem consistent with a bad bridge seal inside the transmission. You can see some details here (not the best video) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ljD1HYymoA

When those fail, it is usually a sudden failure and will set the ratio codes you are getting. Even if it hasn't failed, my recommendation is to replace it and the other four seals to the valve body. Unfortunately, it seems like it would be a pain without a lift but can be done. The process looks like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCvmdo1bLLw and the parts you need should be this https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...24152333907kt3

I see Cyrix echoed my suspicions above...


I would buy a brand new, proper AGM battery. With minimal driving over the last few years, the car has likely been running way under charged. Your recent work in an don it, with the power 'woken up' may have pushed it over.


Your erriors are spurious (ie not one area, one related thing)- seemingly disparate sources...(transmission....engine...steering sensor....)hence voltage issues seem to be a possible source.


Also, a battery is a maintenance item..4-8 years. Less if theyve been abused. Adn parking a car for weeks on end will abuse these batteries




I know this is a bit 'shot in the dark-y' and 'if every time there is any issue you always say 'battery' you are bound to be right once or twice'. But hey...


GL!

I'll look into a new battery. I did however disconnect it Monday hoping for a system reset. I hope that isn’t what led to those particular codes. I'll have to code it on install right? Or can I just change it or will charging it help at all?

Code this morning after clearing them all and restarting:
4F81 Ratio monitoring, clutch A

I did a battery test this morning and the picture is attached.

Also used the reader to look at battery charge status:
Current: 66.41%
1 day ago: 63.28%
2 days ago: 53.13%
3 days ago: 54.3%
4 days ago: 60.94%
5 Days ago: 65.23%

Charge Status Histogram:
0-20%: 0 h
20-40%: 7104 h
40-60%: 24395 h
60-80%: 20108 h
80-100%: 794 h

I'm unsure what this means, but it seems the car sat quite a bit and wasn't driven much. I know this because my parents didn't drive it very much at all for the ~3 years they had it.

If the battery is the best next choice I can do that. I'd rather not tear into the transmission right now, but I always can if I need to. It starts up just fine and seems like everything works, it just doesn't want to get into gear.

Honestly, it's hard to make heads or tails of it sometimes. Yours looks like it has been in a discharged state more than most I look at. When I see weird electronic issues, I always start with the battery just to have a good base. You will need to "register" the new battery (I'm guessing your tool can do that) if you buy the same capacity and type as what is currently installed which should be a 90 Ah AGM in your case. If you have an Advance Auto nearby, this is what I use https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/...m_content=ITEM

"AutoCraft Platinum AGM Battery, Group Size H8, 900 CCA"

If you look for a coupon, you should be able to get 25% off iirc. My total cost after core refund (I usually turn in totally shot batteries and keep the working battery) was $166 after tax.

Thanks, getting a new battery this morning. Will send an update once installed and registered.

Installed and registered a new AGM battery, same as what was there. Date on the old one was 9/15, so almost 5 years old. Anyway, new battery in and registered. Started off with a myriad of codes since it sat with no batter for a couple hours.

All codes were wiped and restarted. It restarted well and I did another scan. All clean. I put it in drive and all felt good. I drove down the drive way in D until the end. Stopped before entering the road and as soon as I stopped, the transmission message came on the screen. Rescanned and got:

4F84 Ratio monitoring, clutch D

Drove down the road for 1/4 mile to turn around (I didn't want to put it in reverse and have it lock the gears out again. Was in limp mode the whole time.

While driving, I erased the codes. Opened back up and could drive normal again. Got to the house and pulled in. Got another error when I stopped in the driveway.

Again, 4F84 Ratio monitoring, clutch D.

Goes right back into park immediately.

So, not the battery, clearing the codes brings it back after a little drive. Earlier codes were clutch A, now it is clutch D. What would be a good next step?

My suggestion is to do the bridge seal which will require dropping the pan & valve body.

It's not super difficult, the big things to remember are to be careful with the sealing sleeve and to be sure to engage the park sensor while reinstalling the valve body. It is possible to bend the pins for the electrical connector on the transmission and that is an expensive fix. Also as general advice, crack the fill plug loose as the first step so you know you can get fluid back in; do NOT open it with the vehicle off or you will spill fluid everywhere. Otherwise the most challenging part is getting the fluid level correct as it must be done with the X5 running, level, and at specific temperature.

Here's a good set of instructions. You don't need to drop the front driveshaft and I think the fill plug is an 8mm allen. https://www.bmwrepairguide.com/bmw-e...ent-zf-6hp19x/ This link should have the proper tightening sequence and torque values http://www.thectsc.com/images/pdf/th...eplacement.pdf

I figured that was going to be the next step. Should I get just the bridge seal or get a new pan and everything else?

You'll want the whole kit from FCP (or your vendor of choice). Do the other seals while you're in there, the sealing sleeve needs to come out to pull the valve body and is usually damaged during removal, and the transmission filter is integrated into the pan so it's good to replace anyway. Technically the pan is only supposed to be one time use, but I think if you messed up on assembly you could get away with reusing it. You will also need a pump to get the new fluid into the transmission - advance auto carries them.

Thank you. Is it more than this?

https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...24152333907kt3

That's everything. If you don't have a torque wrench, you'll want a small one for this job. I use this one https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1 You will also need the torx bits but I don't know the size off the top of my head.

:edit: 7 liters of fluid should be more than enough, but if you want to be extra sure, maybe throw in another liter https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/lif...r-s67109025301

I always have extra left over.

I've got everything but a lift, so I'll be floor jack/jack standing it. I've got a decent shop and all the tools I need. Been amature road racing and wrenching for about 10 years now so I'm used to working on my own stuff, I'm just new to BMW's.

I'll order these and get started hopefully this weekend. Thanks for all the help, this is an awesome group. I'll report on the progress.

Good kit to buy. We’ve recently seen a few aftermarket pans that are improperly molded and cause issues. A ZF pan is an OEM pan...

GL

Well, it was the bridge seal. The transmission fluid looked good, no metal. The other seals were good too, though everything in the kit was replaced. Everything works now! Thanks for all the help! I appreciate it. You all are a wealth of knowledge!

Awesome! Glad you were able to fix it!!

Damn this was an odd one....


Rain...battery...tranny....


A bridge seal.




Welp, now that youve got a real scanner, it will never fail again.


;)

The scanner can find a new home if needed, but it works pretty well. The battery I don't mind so much, the old one was 5+ years old.

My independent mechanic said he'd changed several of them in the past, but never one at 57K. I'm glad it's working now. I wonder what else I need to check on.

The kit was $300 and he charged $350 for the work. I could have done it myself, but for that price, I thought it was worth it. I'd have it up on jack stands and would have been taking things apart on my back. The $350 was well spent. He used to work at BMW for 5 years prior to what he is doing now so he knows his stuff.

FWIW, I replace batteries when they're that old even though I've seen 10+ year old batteries that continue to work. It's not the mileage so much as the age, and even at that how well they've been maintained. They last a long time on vehicles that are consistently driven but fail early on vehicles that have sat around (like at a car dealer or as a garage queen). It sucks to have a battery die on you when out and about so I think it's good money spent.


I also agree the $350 was well spent. That does not look like a fun job on jack stands. I feel like that's a good price from an indy too.

I completely agree. The job wasn't bad and one I could do, but I'd be on my back with the X5 up on jackstands and that really just sucks. The $350 was worth it.

She drives great now. Thanks again for all the help.

:iagree:

I will add that the oft-repeated advice of 'replace the battery' is actually a combination of a diagnostic call AND a strategy for managing repair cost and complexity. I'll explain.


It would be nice to have perfect diagnostic data and only replace parts that are proven to be bad....but sometimes we are giving advice to people that are using shops for work, that dont have tools, and/or that pay $120 a hour for every little thing. (And also may be paying 120 and NOT getting expertise.)


Spending $200 and crossing it off the list of possible problems can often times be the cheapest overall strategy for getting at a solution to what turns out to be a non-battery issues.




It is also surprising how a battery can be borderline- for a long time- and then something happens, cold temps, a long day doing a vacuum and detail, or just nothing at all, and it falls off a cliff.