E70 4.8i X5 vs the new Cayenne S
 

The new Cayenne S will have 385hp as opposed to 350hp in the E70. Since the price of these two vehicles is similar, anyone here would consider the new Cayenne S over the 4.8i X5?

No, because Cayenne still looks ugly.

Amen brother.

The old Pepper S had more HP then the 4.4 E53 and the X5 was still quicker. The Pepper ride needs the snails to be quick.

xdrive,
A lil' biased here, as I think the BMW is the "better" car, esp. the
E53 "look", but not sure too many are gonna chase an advertised
30+ hp difference as the main basis of a $70G+, 2 1/2 ton, suv
to drive the streets and highways in...

If one "likes" the Pepper better, for any reason(s), go get it,
but I suspect the cross shopping and, especially the cross
buying, is in the few thousand per year.

I'm always curious as to why one would care what the "group"
thinks about a large, depreciating asset purchase. Buy whatcha
want; that hp diff will probably be "corrected" in a later E70 version,
but I don't think the average buyer will notice or care.
GL,mD

Having spent some time in one recently, I am willing to overlook some of its' styling miscues for the user friendly thought that has gone in to many features that you use every day.

For example, we live in a hot climate where it can be over 110 degrees for days on end, and there are only small A/c vents in the rear of the E53 for our son, whereas the Cayenne also has the pillar mounted vents (as just now intro'd on the E70)

The telephone usage and nav/stereo use was so straight forward you've gotta wonder what drugs the people who design our nav/idrive are on....

We are actually considering replacing both our E53's with a couple of Cayennes as they offer the space we want, the features etc....

More body roll than the E53, but as the BMW people say when their products aren't up to scratch "Handling is subjective" so we are testing the Cayennes quite a bit.

I thought Porche anounced that there would be no new 2007 version this year and they were going to refresh for 2008.

Not sure if I agree on the Cayenne being more spacious. The trunk is definately smaller than the X5's. I could barely fit the baby stroller in the Cayenne while it easily fit in the X5.

I recently transfered a set of 4 19" wheels & tires from one into the other. While I could easily fit all four in the X5 standing up, I could barely fit three in the Cayenne and we had to put the seats down to get the fourth in there!

The Cayenne definately feels heavier (which it is) and almost feels like you're pulling a boat. The X5 is a lot more responsive to the pedal. Almost too responsive at times. I have a hard time taking off smoothly sometimes with the family in there...it just wants to launch all the time. The Cayenne needs the extra horsepower just to get it going. While 0-60 is neck to neck with the S, the X5 feels quicker.

The Turbo would be the only Cayenne I would ever consider and even then I would have to get over that bloated bubble Porsche styling...

here's my thoughts.

I have owned 3 x X5's within the last 5 years & 1 Cayenne Turbo.
The first two X5's were 3.0sports, the third (current ride 3.0diesel sport)

The CT without question was the best ride we have ever had, hands down.
However it was shockingly expensive to run & maintain & we bailed out and got into the X5 diesel.

14 months later we are missing the Cayenne a lot, enough to even put up with the running costs.

The new facelift Cayenne looks better in my eyes & with improved HP I would consider the S variant.

I have a 1K deposit on the 07 X5 due in April/May but after seeing yesterdays Cayenne press release, I am now considering going back to the Porsche group.

Air Suspension is a must though, the ride without it is god damn awful.

BTW: I feel there's too much black plastic going on with the X5 exterior.

Wait for the X5 M-sport package in summer 2007 which gets rid of black plastic.

X5 M in summer of 2007? is that confirmed?

NA/US might not get it though..

Not an ///M X5, an M-Sport package: body-part upgrades: bumpers, wheels, etc.

the new cayenne S come with all new engin 4,8 385HP it run from 0 to 100\km in 6,6 sec and the new 4,8 X5 350HP run from 0 to 100\km in 6,4 ;)

the cayenne is skipping the 2007 year, the new one will be 2008

According to Car Magazine, the new E70 4.8 is 10 seconds faster around the "ring" than the E53 4.8iS.

that is a LOT

Post that article because the E53 4.8 is quicker then the E70 4.8 in almost every test.

It shouldn't be that surprising considering that the 4.8is is only marginally quicker straight-line that the 4.8i. Everyone who has test driven so far has commented the E70 (all of them have been non-sport) handling easily surpasses that of the E53, so it shouldn't be a surprise that a Sport equipped E70 would be able to whoop an E53 around a track.

WTF? Ahh, no there is a 2007 Porsche Cayenne brother.

Don't make a statement without backing it up with a link to article. I have driven both and 4.8i is not even close in handling, and yes I have driven a E70 4.8i sport package on highway and on rough roads. The gas pedal in E53 4.8is is very responsive and the handling is much sporty for E53 4.8is as compared to E70 4.8i. Also, E70 4.8is is longer and heavier than E53 4.8is. Beside E70 has 5 HP less than E53. On rough roads E70 4.8i has a smoother ride. I also tried the manumatic shifter on E70 which works as designed. Slalom on E70 is better than E53 4.4i.

I'm confused, in your second sentence you say the 4.8 is not even close in handling, but in your last sentence you say the E70 (4.8i) is better at slalom. Wouldn't that indicate better handling???

Preach on Brother.

Different beasts for comparison. Better in slalom as compared to 4.4i. Bottom line, we are comparing apples to oranges. Read these posts by scott27

http://www.xoutpost.com/202049-post52.html
http://www.xoutpost.com/202090-post56.html
http://www.xoutpost.com/202096-post58.html

So,no M-package for USA.Porsche - take my money please.

Sorry, I'm a ;ph: tonight, but the company here is always great. Based on a friend's comments who has owned both (X5 4.4 and Pepper S) for several years (one before the other), the X is more fun to drive below 100, the S above. The brakes have better feel on the X, but look better on the S. I just hate him for being liquid enough to own both. (Not considering his 996 turbo in his garage which just pisses me off..)

Personally, considering both looks and driveability, I would go with the X.

I think you missed the word "please" from the start of your rant.

HERE IS THE ARTICLE. LET THE DEBATING BEGIN!!! PLEASE ''IS'' OWNERS NO CRYING:nanana:
http://paultan.org/archives/2006/11/...ive-in-athens/

This is exactly why I think the '10 sec faster around the Nurburgring' is not a fallacy:

Yes, the 4.8is might a little faster going in a straight-line, but the E70's new suspension even without Adaptive Drive is vastly superior due to the Double Wishbone setup; throw in the Sport Package (which includes Adaptive Drive), and the E70 is going spank the E53 (any model). Going around a track, .5 sec difference in 0-60 is not even worth discussing.

The E53 does not have bad handling by any means. It's the same relationship as how the E70 has a more rigid chassis/frame the E30 M3 race car. Technological advancements bring for evolution.

This notion of straight-line speed is an american concept that is starting to die down.

Why is it that a new model come out and everyone thinks the old one is sh*t almost immediately? There will ALWAYS be a newer/better/faster model coming. Drive what you have and enjoy. I don't think most of us will push any of these vehicles even close to the driving dynamics that are needed for the Ring.

Slow down..no one is calling the 'old' model anything. The point of this thread to contrast both models of the X5 and the Cayenne. This is can basically be called a fact: the E70 offers superior dynamics, offerring both better handling and ride comfort. It's an objective discussion. Welcome to a forum.

I've yet to come across a poster on the site who is ditching his/her E53 for the new and improved model.

Good points. I may have been hasty in my comments. It was a general comment and directed at anyone inparticular. :)

Thanks

Curtis

When I test drove the 4.8i I went to the dealer as I have to replace one of my cars in 4-6 months and looking at 4.8i as an option but after driving it, I doubt I will get it. In fact I have more respect for my 4.8is. Once you drive both a 4.8is and 4.8i back-to-back you will know what I mean. I see a X6M in my future.;)

The driving dynamics (IMO) OF THE 4.8IS AND E70 CAN BE SUMED UP LIKE THIS. E53 SPORTY-TIGHT-FAST. (yes i have driven both)
E70 SPORTY-SMOOTH-FAST.
We should all be so lucky to drive either one.ENJOY YOUR BMW!!!

If this is how you feel then my advice is go for it. But some of your logic seems flawed like the X isn't gonna keep you cool because of some small vents. Kinda nutty anology IMHO. But the X is not for everyone and it sounds like your Cayenne sold so stop bashin the X and get the C. :thumbup:

OH I forgot to add the Cayenne really is Yougly.:nanana:

The problem is how many people are willing to spend 75k or more to have this soccer mom image?

I'm still trying to figure out why Porsche had to model the Cayenne after the 997. Perhaps the only way to infuse the Toureg with 911 DNA was to make it look like one? I will say the facelift helped, it looks a bit less like a big overgrown guppy than before. It's still fugly.

It still takes quite a few modifications to make a Cayenne look even remotely attractive.

You gotta be talkin about the Cayenne right? :rofl:
In that case i agree. Especially when that thing is sooooo ugly. :nanana:
Come on now............ You know it is. !!!!:rolleyes:

I am! But then my E53 is due for renewal next year anyway :)

Okay, let's get something straight right off the top.

When I first bought the 3.0 X5 my son was constantly unsettled because there is precious little airflow up to a toddler in a booster seat. My son is important to me and we found ourselves often trying to direct the front vents between the seats, as the airflow was inadequate on a hot day.

Secondly, when I bought the 3.0, I actually got in it EVERY day and enjoyed driving it, long after the thrill of the new car wore off. It's only drawback was a mid range hole in acceleration that made getting on our freeways a challenge. When it came to trading in our 320 my wife wanted the 3.0 so I bought a 4.8 after test driving a LOT of alternatives.

I was AMAZED at the handling, the acceleration and told everyone that this was IT, the last car for a very long time as I was happy to spend $165k for the ultimate in driving pleasure. I even ordered a cooler colour than the lovely looking black to assist keeping the inside cool for my son.

What I got is a car that is massively unstable around a corner, pings to high heaven on any day over 24 degrees C, the rear suspension collapses whenever it feels like it whether I am driving or stopped, I have constant electrical faults (ext mirrors freeze in down position every day, susp inactive, cluster fails, passenger side door doesn't unlock, alarm goes off when it feels like it, the list goes on) and having patiently spent over 12 months and some 20 visits to the dealer who wrote a report to BMW AUST DENYING the faults exist, I waited 3 months for the official tech to visit. After demonstrating the faults and long discussions (including pointing out to the dealer their internal reports verify my claims), BMW AUST has written back to me stating that the pinging is unacceptable and they have offered to lower the compression in my engine so please go see the wonderful dealer to get the work done. That's it, case closed and ignore the suspension and everything else.

I've spent enough money with BMW over the years (and as with the Cayenne overlooking some faults) to have been a fan, but any company that tries to give you the brush off so consistently when the FACTS speak otherwise forces me to choose between trading both cars in for another brand and forgetting BMW, or going to court and fighting those $%^ers... either way I lose money and it pisses me because I thoroughly enjoyed my first X.

Third, and final, the day to day usage of the nav and phone were FAR easier in the Cayenne, something that I need due to my work and the fact that talking on a mobile is illegal with your hands where we are.....

NOT bashing, just an opinion

My solicitors will do the bashing.....

Once again: do not compare E53 4.8is with E70 4.8i. It's like comparing regular 3er coupe with M3. Or 320i with special edition 320si. Very different personalities.

E70 4.8i is a substitute for E53 4.4i, NOT 4.8is - despite same 4.8 designation.

A performance version of E70 will come later - just like E53 performance version came later after E53's launch.

Btw, E70 is a very capable vehicle - definitely much better than E53 (comparing entry I6 & V8 versions).

At the end of the day, it is pretty sad that BMW is starting to lose customers because of a lack of buisness ethics. You guys put in the hardwork to create these fantastic vehicles and market them..And then you throw it away in a few words spoken by not backing your vehicles when there is a problem to be dealt with.

LVR is not an isolated incident with his 4.8is and plethora of problems. Neither is SANguru with his M5's SMG lockout issue. These are very highend vehicles that two seperate divisions of BMW won't stand behind.

Since you represent BMW AG here, we'd like to hear your opinion Scott..

I'm not representing BMW AG here! Not officially. :D

Yes, there are some unfortunate lemon cases when people have to deal with representatives, and even take legal actions. I'm sorry to hear that. BMW AG is not perfect. Nor are their cars. No car /company is perfect.

Eg. recently I had a bad experience with Sony (otherwise having very good ones with them). Buying bloody expensive (lemon) plasma TV that went dead after few weeks, and Sony didn't wanted to repair it under waranty - claiming liquid was present inside the TV (oxidated pins). Of course the TV hung on a wall from day one in my living room, without any liquid being near.

I'm sure such cases shouldn't happen, but life is not perfect. I wish you guys to iron the troubles out ASAP. Insist till the end!

I understand your point, but it seems like these cases are different from your analogy to Sony. You had an isolated incident with them. These occurances with BMW are not isolated. Similarily, Sony is known for reliability. I'm sorry, but when we purchase a BMW we do expect reliability issues to arise, but that is the price to pay for driving pleasure heh. We expect that the warranty we paid for will be honored.

Does this sound isolated?
http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=72395

What do you want from me? To take responsibility, or what?

I'M NEITHER BMW AG ADVOCATE NOR REPRESENTATIVE!

Please, do not throw flames at me. There are official channels to sort such cases out. I can't help you here. Sorry. All I can do is to tell you MY OPINION. My PERSONAL opinion. Clear enough?

Working for BMW AG doesn't mean I have to take every responsibility here for lemon products.

What's next? Are you going to scream at a cleaning lady at Apple HQ when your iPOD dies? I don't think so.

I'm not officially representing BMW here. I just provide you the info I had.

Btw, if you are not satisfied with a product change it. That's the best advice I can personally give you. :thumbup:


PS: obviously your line in avatar ("i come in peace") is not very true.

No flame..I guess my assumption that you're here to promote the product was a bit hasty..

Something to the extent of 'I will pass on the info' would have easily sufficed..

OK. :thumbup:

Btw, you should understand BMW AG is a HUGE corporation with over 105,000 employees. Everyone is working on a very specific task he/she is assigned to.

I can't pass on the info since I do not personally know anyone at BMW NA, or BMW Australia etc. Or even people responsible for after-sales activities in our Sales / Marketing department in Munich. I making a call to a person in responsible department will have same effect as you calling a random person in you home town. Or you personally calling BMW AG - same effect.

I'm not such Übermensch knowing all 105,000 our employees, or have such powers as eg. a CEO. :D

Just to back up what LVR said about the rear vents in a hot climate - a good rear vent system really is critical in hot areas. You don't know how important it is until you've lived somewhere like Phoenix. In my experience BMW's a/c systems suck in general (I've owned an E36, E46, E53), and if you're in the back seat with puny vents, well, then it sucks even worse. I can absolutely see that having a better rear a/c system (and a better a/c overall) could be a big factor in someone's buying decision.

With regards to BMW's service issues, I absolutely think BMW is hurting itself when it comes to post-sales service. I've personally experienced it, friends have experienced it, and I've seen lots of stories regarding it. Right now they are experiencing phenomenal sales, but these things build up over time and eventually will bite them in the behind. Mercedes' quality issues started about 10-15 years ago, and is just now starting to hurt them.

In my friend's case, he had a problem with his power driver's seat under warranty. A new one was ordered, but the dealer never called to let him know it was in. He was notified the next time he went in for service, after his warranty expired. And you know what? The dealer refused to install the seat under warranty! They wanted him to pay for it. He contacted BMW NA, and got the same story from them. He's since dumped his X5 and vowed never to buy another BMW.

That's fair, though I think you missed the point on this one. You're over-complicating things a bit. No one is holding you personally accountable for these problems..we've beaten this to death so since a resolution hasn't arisen alread, I'll leave it at that.



This can't be good..don't you work for marketing? Where's the cross-functionality? :rofl:

No, not the marketing. Something more interesting ... :thumbup:

fine

I think the comparison of the new 4.8i and e53 4.8is is valid as they are close in hp and 0-60 time.Waiting for the new ''IS'' to compare it to the old one is rediculous because the hp gap will be huge and it will be much faster (not fair).I understand ''IS'' OWNERS are reluctant to compare the 2 as one is highend model and the other is entry level. That's 7 years of evolution for you... Oh yeah btw, 10 seconds faster around the nurburgring!!! NUMBERS DON'T LIE.;)

I hardly think the 4.8i is entry level!

I agree, call it what you want .I think you get the point! Yes?

E53 4.8is had different engine, throttle, steering & suspension settings (stiffer) - tuned to deliver much more raw performance / racing feeling. E53 4.8is is a performance version of X5!

While E70 4.8i is a "civil", regular version of X5. With settings tuned to deliver refined driving feeling (compared to much more raw one in "is" version).

Despite having same engine with similar power / torque output the cars are very different (due different settings). And are meant to be different.

Mind that in E53 a 4.4i was an entry V8 version, while in E70 that role goes to 4.8i (entry V8 version!).

Really, it's not valid to mix & compare performance version to regular ones. Like comparing a acing car to a "civil" one. Like comparing M to non-M.

Btw, imagine what a beast a new performance version will be if a regular version (E70 4.8i) is already almost as good (or in some respects even better) as previous performance version (E53 4.8is)! :thumbup:

I agree with what you are saying,I was basically just compairing numbers wich are very similar. I can't even begin to imagine how ferousious the new ''IS'' will be.Are we talking 0-60 in the high 4's?probably 5.0?

This is the baby I am waiting for.... or should i say I will wait till she is one year old before I leave the existing 4.8is to get into the new "IS" replacement or into the Porsche Pepper Turbo.

So that should give me 2-3 years of service out of my existing 4.8is.

just in time for the stars and moon to line up and for me to get the new ride...

Curtis

Guess what, California law states that if a warranty issue is found documented and agreed to between the customer and the dealer and the warranty runs out before it's repaired then that repair must be completed under warranty even if the date for the warranry has expired. In effect the warranty is extended until that issue is resolved. Just saw that lately regarding others who have had issues like this with vehicles

that law is in CT also

Same in NY-
And BTW: Great thread.
Enjoying the debate, but my timing is off for the next is.
I need to replace a vehicle comming off lease so I can't wait for the new is... (would if I could)... I'll just have to settle for a 4.8 i now and accept the fact that when the is rolls out, I'll hopefully be in the same situation (almost said boat) current "is" owners are now ....