Reality check : X5 prices !
 

Can someone explain why there is such a price difference for the same 2008 X5 4.8 ( with the same options / equipements ) from country to country.

Please avoid the corporate mumbo jumbo like:
-Cost of complying with local standards
-Attractive BMW Financial Services Leasing / Financing Programs that are different fron country to country
-Scheduled Maintenance Costs and Warranty that may differ.
-Benefits of higher prices at Resale time in certain countries ( like Canada ).
-Support and benefits from your local BMW Retailer’s investment in facilities, and customer experience.

As of 2007-12-07
All currencies converted to the US$
Comparativly equipped vehicules as per BMW configurator for the respective country ( except for CDN where the quotes are dealer obtained )
Reference price : Base price for a 2008 US X5,4.8 : $55,275.00 ( loaded $71,775.00 )
Base price for a 2008 Canadian X5, 4.8 : $73,500.00 ( loaded $92,745.00 )
Base price for a 2008 UK X5, 4.8 : $109,142.00 ( loaded $135,531.00 )

Base price for a 2008 France X5, 4.8 : $115,848.00 (loaded $135,705.00)
As one can see, in similar markets, France and the UK, the prices are of the "same order", much more expensive than in the new world, but still.
Why is it that the "same order" doesn't apply to the US vs CDN market where the $ are at par?
Are buyers being ripped off in non-US markets?
The US$ is nose diving and almost all other currencies are appreciating a lot against the US$.
But the BMW prices are way out of reality despite the differences in markets!
OK the prices are adjusted to what the markets can bare, but still close to 80% more in Europe !!!
Any good explanations out there?
Is the rest of the world subventionning one of the largest and richest X5 market? The US one.
Why such price variations for BMW and not for other brands?
Example: In Canada, a 2008 X5 is 30% more expensive than the same car in the US with $ at par.
A 2008 Mercedes Benz ML 320 CDI is "only" 10% more expensive in Canada than the US.

The X5 is a great car, I owned three since 2000, but with such a "rippoff" ( in Canada ) I'd rather
drive an ML with 20K more in my pockets!

Country to country man, different marketplace...different value. People buy them, so it works fine.

This can be applied to other things not just BMW and the X5.
Take for example pc hardware which say retails for $200 in the us would be £200 in the uk when it should be £100 based on the current exchange rates. Also you have to take into account the import tax and vat countries apply which can be much higher in Europe. I also think that BMW are having to compete more in the US as the SUV market is much thougher than in many other places. I guess as long as they know they can get away with these prices and were willing to pay for them then they which continue.

Minimum wage in France is $7.61 Eur. That would be $11.15/hr here.

Do your US prices include sales taxes ? If you took the French & UK prices off the configurator then they will include VAT (value added tax) of about 21%.

Within Europe prices will vary pretty significantly as well. The UK just gets ripped off without any clear explanation (excl taxes UK is one of the most expensive countries to buy a car, Ireland is bad as well)

In Holland on top of the VAT of 21% the goverment also adds a 25% BPM tax (no idea what it means but it certainly helps contain the dutch budget deficit).

Also I presume you've used a recent USD/Euro exchange rate. As the bottom seems to have fallen out of the dollar this also gives a bit of a skewed comparison.

Did quick comparison between base price for my 3.0d between Belgium and Holland and the dutch are 36% more expensive (eg USD 29.000)

US prices are deflated because BMW faces a lot more competitors here (Other Euro brands + Japanese brands & previously American, although not so much anymore).

BMW can do this here because it can shift many many more cars then any of the other countries you described. So for a little less profit here than in other countries BMW sells many more cars.

Being #2 in total luxury car sales & #1 in the luxury car sales is also very important to BMW.

I believe the BPM in Holland is for Bitchin' Primo Marijuana.

The high prices of cars and other goods are a direct result of the tax structure (ie socialism) in Europe. Their is no free lunch, government contuines to tax the middle class to provide all the benefit to the remaining population. Untill this is addressed cost will be higher.

123.675 USD for my 3.0d in Romania -84.500 EUR, with many options

102.550 USD for 4.8i standard (58.880 EUR + 19% VAT)
78.150 USD for 3.0d standard (44.980 EUR + 19% VAT)

1 EUR = 1.46 USD

It could also come down to simple economics. A product is worth what the market will bear. As long as consumers keep buying BMWs at their seemingly high prices everywhere outside the USA, BMW will keep charging these high prices. If you want the prices to drop, stop buying them.

because of this key phrase you see in every advert. for cars in the US.

"Tax, Title, License and Registration Not Included"

If you bought a loaded X5 in Maine:
$67,000 for the car (if you buy it in Mass or NH, $7K "adjustment" at the one dealer we have)
$3,350 for sales tax
$2,500 for Excise Tax :wow: (approximation, a $45,000 car runs $1700)
$1,000 for bulls*it dealer fees
$250 for plates/registration fees
IIRC, in Europe, the car comes from the dealer with the VAT (granted ours is a lot less) paid, the Plates welded on and the Reg paid for for a year or two.
Also consider the exchange rate at the moment...

Sorry, just had to.

Ireland = country
England = country
Wales = country
Scotland = country

UK (or Great Britain) = all of them, not a country

Otherwise, yes, I agree.

It must also be known that although the CAD is worth more than the USD now (:rolleyes:), Canadian cars are still significantly more expensive.

The UK car prices have been ridiculous for quite some time now; it has more to do with exchange rates than anything else. The British pound is worth nearly twice as much as the USD.

New prices are indeed very high, and I agree that BMW will charge what it can get away with. BUT, if you have a look at UK second hand values or pre-registered car with <1000 miles, you will see drops of almost 15-20%. Some '0' miles cars are going for 42K with the usual 8K worth of extras from BMW dealers.

I think this 15% drop prepresents the 'real' UK value of the X5. So, beware when you come to sell.

I have had to cancel my order (£51K) as my family planning went wrong during the wait for it, and we will have 4 kids by May 2008, and the X5 is just too small for a family of 6.

Good bye X5 world.

Small point, Ireland is not part of the UK.

UK stands for the United Kingdom, which includes England, Scotland and Wales.

Sorry, you are wrong

Sorry....just had to - you are wrong on Great Britain ... it doesn't include Ireland. Great Britain is primarily the Island comprising the three countries England, Wales and Scotland. Northern Ireland is part of the UK but not Great Britain (a UK passport is for the "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland"). Eire (Ireland) is a completely separate state.

Sorry Stumpy, you are correct, I forgot about Northern Ireland :thumbup:

Ignoring the Republic of Ireland and their struggle for independance there is a consistant pattern here : all of you (Ireland / Northern Ireland / Wales /Scotland / and England) are getting screwed from a pricing point of view..... watched some tv programs on BBC on the topic and it does appear that manufacturers keep the prices artificially high and they seem to be doing so with some sort of mutual understanding (or else you'd see much more competition on price)....................or maybe it is caused by the incremental cost of having to move the steering wheel to the wrong side of the car :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Sam

Well I get consolation in the fact that "market driven prices" are not only a fact in Canada. It seems that those inflated prices are also in order in the British Isles.

Point taken: "If you wanna bring down those market driven prices, just don't buy the goods..."

... Well I did just that. After 20 years as a loyal and happy BMW customer, in the last days of january I will say goodbye to my tenth BMW ( 05 X5 ) over those years.

In will come a more down to earth priced ( at least in Canada ) MB ML 320 CDI.

'till the market gets back in touch with reality I will certainly miss the BMW experience but won't miss those imposed runflat tires ( that should be an option ) and won't miss the dealer installed hitch ...

I will miss this great forum though but should be lurking from time to time.

I'll probably rejoin the "familly" if and when the 3.0 Diesel reach our shores
at an "american price".

Thanks all and it was more than pleasant to read comments from non US residents.

In the mean time, enjoy your X and Happy Holidays!

ALRIGHT, the fact that Ireland is not part of the UK has been pointed out to me 3 times now. Sorry!

Anyway, the UK is not a country...

That depends on your point of view; whereas I actually agree with you, many do not as there is not a 100% clear definition of what constitutes a country. Here is an interesting discussion for those interested in geo-politics (although from wikipedia so it isn't exactly reliable).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries

But as far as I am concerned Scotland is definitely a country!

Also to get back on topic - yes we do get ripped off on prices - the main reason is that the manufacturers are not recognising the effect of currency exchange. Five years ago you got roughly 1.6 USD for every GBP. And so a 40000 GBP X5 (not many of those about admittedly) cost about 64000 USD, take off the taxes and the values were pretty comparable. Now with the rate at 2.05 the same vehicle costs 82000 - effectively a 35% increase in US terms. It is this that has the biggest effect. BMW are effectively using this difference to shore up profits - as they have significant profitably issues, and are on a massive cost-cutting campaign. In reality prices are not too dissimilar to those of 5-6 years ago in the UK, and BMW weren't going to cut prices, were they!

That's ok, I have called back the team of commando's that I had sent round to your house! :p

One of the primary reasons for the different prices is that exchange rates vary, and it is not practical to change the prices of vehicles dramatically from year to year. The dollar has been weakening for years against other currencies; however, BMW cannot raise prices in the U.S. to recover this weakening 100% without really impacting sales. A few years ago the Euro was worth around a dollar, nowadays it's around $1.4 dollars. If BMW had increased prices in the U.S. and additional 40% more than Europe over those years their U.S. sales would have really dropped.

So BMW "averages" the exchange rate out... getting a better profit margin in those markets where currencies are strengthening, and getting a poorer profit margin in those markets where the currency is weakening, e.g., compare what the relative costs of a Candian BMW vs. a U.S. BMW would be at the exchange rates of a few years ago, and you will see that it is the exchange rate changes that account for much (but not all) of the disparity seen Today.