So long E70, and good riddance!
 

I'll be getting rid of the E70 on wednesday. There were problems with the car right from when I picked it up and despite numerous (although half assed) attempts to fix it, my list of problems grew.

Every time I'd get it back from service, the problems would exist, and a new problem would usually arise!

Finally I got fed up with BMW. I'm going back to Porsche. I need a manufacturer and dealer that actually cares and has the skills to resolve any problems.

Good luck, everyone, with your E70's. I wish you all better luck than I had.

The list of problems I had is below:



IDrive freezes during routine actions
-setting address
-scrolling music

Ipod interface really slow
-2-3 minutes to load a playlist

Backup Camera problems
-takes too long to activate when starting car (1+minutes)
-useless in low light

PDC doesn't work
-beeps constantly
-been in for this issue, not resolved

Backup Camera/PDC split screen not available

Handsfree phone interface not loud enough

Trunk unlock by remote sets off alarm, doesn't open trunk

Memory seat doesn't adjust steering wheel back to position

Are you so frustrated you're giving your E70 away? If so, I'll take it! I've got a great dealer here in St. Louis. They'd fix those issues right up and I'd be driving the best handling SUV on the road that USED TO HAVE some electronic glitches!

Sorry for your challenges... Come visit us every once in a while.

hi, doesnt ontario have a lemon law? like... fix your new car under warranty so many times in a time period and the dealer is required to compensate you? i hope so.

Sorry to hear the problems you ran into, but you should definitely let your main BMW know (ours would be BMW of NORTH AMERICA). It is the dealerships fault for not addressing your issues seriously, that is just poor customer service. They do not deserve to be a BMW dealership if they treat you and other customers that way, I hope you notify your main BMW. Good luck!

Some of thoes issues would be fixed with a simple software update

btw OP, which dealer in toronto did u go to? i will stay away from it. thanks.

I agree with the software update. When was the last time that was done (and confirmed on paper) ?

iDrive upgrade should fix most if not all in my view, because I do not experience any of the problems you have indicated.

sorry that you feel like the company and dealers are incompetent to address your needs.

Sorry to hear about your problems, which sound like a competant dealer should have been able to address.

I think that in rare cases there are real lemons out there and maybe you got one.

Good luck with the Porsche!

:bawling: :bawling:

Life of a new model run.

Agree, i would want to which dealer in toronto this is. Altough there is no lemon law in canada, you could write a letter to BMW Canada requesting a new car..I know someone who did this with his Mercedes-Benz.

It sounds like you are having a lot of little issues that can be cleared up very easily if the dealer would cooperate with you. That would be frustrating, but with all due respect most of the issues you listed were very small. How dare the ipod playlist take 2 minutes to load, back-up camera doesn't work? Use your mirrors. People have been sucessfully backing out of their garages without watching it on TV for years.

I wouldn't be so fast to trade a driving machine with a computer problem for a computer with a driving problem. You know what I mean?

By the way, Porsche is not anywhere near the top of the reliability list.

it seems most of those problems are a result of impatience.

lets see.
camera does take a few seconds I agree. jsut wait if you cant use your mirrors. if your car is already on it doesnt take that long. every nav I have had before had to load when you first start the car.

ipod- dont use it that much but could be slow, but so is changing the source.

Pdc beeps cause you are close to things. I know what your talking about though, it is very sensitive. my beeps going out of the driveway. its jsut telling you that you are close.... that is what it is supposed to do.....beep.......turni it off if you don't like it.

split screen..........why do you want split screen the camera doesnt work anyway....lol

phone not loud enough,....uh turn the volume up and it gets louder.

trunk open setting off the alarm.....you are holding the button to long.... its called panic.

steering does adjust back to position once you shut the door, you have wait for it before putting the car in gear...

I dont really think you have any real complaints, sorry... maybe if the screen froze, but mine did it once too.

I agree, these do not sound like major issues. If reliability is the big concern, then Porsche is not the way to go.

Maybe the problem is not so much the X5 but the particular dealer or even a particular "service advisor". I would try another dealer first.

Oh, and I'm not trying to defend BMW or the X5 model. I wouldn't say that people buy that particular vehicle because of it's reliability ratings :)

I've got a Z4, but I'm just considering the purchase of an X5 at the moment. I actually find the post somewhat encouraging, as most of the problems are things I planned to leave out because of little personal interest in them and a desire to keep complexity down a bit to improve reliability, e.g., Nav, Back-up Camera, PDC, etc. I'm thinking about the i-pod interface, but I'm afraid it would be a real disapointment after using the Synch voice interface in my Ford Taurus (if you want to experience a really great i-pod interface, try a synch in a Ford Focus or Taurus.)

I do wonder about unlocking the trunk setting off the alarm though... sounds like some wires crossed somewhere.

Right now I'm debating whether or not to wait for the 09 models and/or consider the diesel. Anyone heard what the cost of the diesel option might be?

[quote=Penguin]
I do wonder about unlocking the trunk setting off the alarm though... sounds like some wires crossed somewhere.



The button to open the trunk is the trunk button hold it for a sec and it opens the trunk......if you hold that button down for several seconds(not sure exactly how many) its sets off the alarm... just like any alarm has a panic button...

your panic button on your ford is probably a little red one onthe back of the fob.

It looks like you have solved most of Praetorian's issues with one post! You should start charging for this. :rofl: I always forget that the trunk button activates the panic mode if held long enough.

After I read your post I started thinking maybe the reason the dealer hasn't stepped up in this situation was becasue there really wasn't any issues for them to address. Praetorian, you really should give the e70 another shot. I would guess you are going to be very happy with it in the long run. I would bet that if these things bothered you in the X that you would have issues with things in the Cayenne (or any other Porsche) that you didn't expect.

get a software update first before you finally toss in the towel..

you not having PDC split screen tells me you probably have an older firmware version... and most dealers will not upgrade unless you make them...(it's very time consuming..)

they already answered the autotailgate "problem."

ipod takes a minute or two if you plug it in while the vehicle is running...

i leave it connected each day and don't have any problems getting it on... (turns right on when i start the engine)

backup camera good in daylight but lousy at night.... normal!! turn your head instead... (and why rely on a camera at night??)

sorry to hear you're disappointed... i had a PDC/DTC button issue on the first week....they replaced it and the X has been fine since....

but to each his own....

Is this a joke???

1/2 of your issues have been fixed w/ a software update, the other 1/2 are operator error.

RE: Handsfree volume. You need to adjust the volume control on the phone AND the stereo when the phone is connected to a caller. The stereo volume will boost the hands free volume only when connected.

I have had it into the dealer 6 or 7 times. I escallated to BMW Canada after each time. Every time I get it back from the dealer all my GPS addresses are gone, the car measures in miles, and the last time it tells me that I'm overdue for service.

I dropped it for service 3 weeks ago to be told that they had no loaner. I couldn't be without a car so I rescheduled (no problem). When I showed back up, there was a snowstorm and they told me that they'd need the car for a week or so, and were giving me a 3 series with summer tires. I saw them slide around just getting it out of the back. I declined to take it and said we'd reschedule.

I called BMW Canada back after this and asked them to please make sure that the dealer had a suitable loaner (bmw or other, but something decent in the bad weather). They then told me that there was only 1 issue on their records! I was surprised because they just sent me a letter listing all the problems.

The problem isn't just minor glitches but real performance issues for me. Backup camera taking over a minute to activate and not working at all in the dark. Sure I can backup without it, but I paid for it and I expect it to work. If you think that's unreasonable, then you're just the kind of buyer BMW is looking for.

Ipod cable - $800! it takes minutes to change a playlist, which is annoying and I should be able to expect better for that cost. My real problem is that the playlists are missing entries. I use my iPod for listening to Audiobooks and missing entries means that there are entire books I cannot listen to. I have to make custom playlists just to keep a single book available. I shouldn't have to do that, not after buying an $800 cable to go in my $90k car.

GPS freezes up each time I use it. It takes me about 5-10 minutes to put in the average address. Annoying.
GPS cannot easily locate places like stores. I once found West Marine, but I have never been able to find it again. It's not user friendly. I used to use a Garmin and I find it much easier to use and more flexible. I also find it more functional and faster.

My ABS brakes are okay, but not great. I'll slide sideways under braking in the snow often. I never did this on my Avalanche or any of my Porsche's.

Unfortunately BMW seems to feel that my issues aren't worth fixing either. That, more than anything else, is why I want out.

I've owned 6 911's in the past and never had a single problem that wasn't regular wear and tear. Regardless whether the Porsche is reliable (which I firmly believe it to be), the Porsche dealers are much more responsive.

The BMW dealer asked me if Porsche (Pfaff Motors) would give out a loaner Porsche in case of problem. I had to think back, because they never have. I've never had a problem they couldn't fix while I waited, except when I needed a new clutch on an old 911. I dropped it off in the afternoon and got a ride home with the salesman who lived close to me, he drove me back in the morning and it was ready.

For me the difference is that Porsche drivers expect perfection from their cars and Porsche strives to deliver. My old mechanic at Pfaff is now the service manager. He knows his stuff and he makes sure that all the customers are 100% happy, 100% of the time.

I once had a problem the day before a trip where my high beams wouldn't stay on. I drove in to service but it worked when I got there. Instead of screwing around with it, they replaced the entire steering column electronics stalk so I could get going. Nothing wrong (I think it was something I did but didn't think of).

I expected the same level of service from BMW because I had a friend who had great things to say. Even he has since changed his mind after they've attempted to fix the same problem 4 or 5 times.

I think Porsche is up at the top of reliability. With Pfaff behind me, I think any problems will be expertly and promptly taken care of.

I understand that people here don't want to hear what I've said, since I'm really insulting the car we've all spent money on. Believe me, I wanted it to work. This switch is costing me almost $15k just to get rid of the X5 early. I am so fed up with BMW and the X5 that I don't want to try to fix it.

Just so everyone is aware, $15k is a lot of money to me. I didn't do this lightly.

PS. FSETH, thanks for making light of the problems that I've had with the car. Your turn will come.

I work hard during the winter months so I can relax and enjoy my boat in the summer. I don't have the time or desire to deal with this crap during the winter.

I will certainly lose storage and passenger capacity (although my rear passengers are almost always my 6 and 8 yr old's, so they'll still fit).

I'll improve fuel economy significantly (the X5 is a fuel pig).

The 911 looks better (I know, unfair comparing a sports car to an SUV. Unfortunately the X5 did awaken in me the desire for another sports car).

The 911 will be more reliable. (Disagree all you want, I'll smile as I see the X5's in the shop as I pass)

The 911 is faster! (come on, we all have to agree on this one!)

My opinion (just my opinion here), the 911 handles better in the snowy, winter weather. Flame me all you want. I'm more confident behind a 911 than an X5. I mean the 2 wheel drive too!

Here's a big one. The 911 will drive forever and will retain its value much better than the BMW.

BMW sold 1.7 million vehicles last year. Porsche sold 88,000. BMW is a mass produced car. My Porsche mechanic told me once that Porsche sells so few cars that they cannot afford to annoy even 1 customer. They're getting a customer back because of this very fact. I guess it works.

Good luck.

I'll post the dealer name shortly (after I conclude everything). Please understand.

Thank you. I wish all other X5 owners the best of luck and I sincerely hope that my experience is an anomoly.

Praetorian:

Good, balanced post. I wish you well.

thnx 4 all the info, yeah i think your particular x5 is a lemon. well, have fun with ya 911, both are great cars. since you are in toronto, i can only think of these dealers:

bmw of toronto
parkview bmw
town & country bmw
budd's bmw

i suspect it is either T&C or budd's. i went to T&C for a test drive once and the salesguy was like a mute, didnt even attempt to sell me a car.

one member here was saying he had a nasty experience with budd's regarding the 3m scotchguards.

of course i'm only speculating.

M6X,
I'm a bit north of Toronto, where the roads are open. (hint).

I recognize some of these, here's my take.

I have the latest software version (just upgraded). I've never had the address problem, but don't use it often. Scrolling music is still a problem. Also, when the vehicle is first turned on, it will sometimes "skip" in songs. (MP3s) I believe it is because it is reading other song titles to populate the list. Once on for five minutes or so, it's gone. Still, an annoyance

Mine doesn't have the iPod interface, so no help here.

Both are still a problem. And, I don't understand those of you saying that software will solve all of the issues this individual is having. It won't fix a cheap CCD being used for the camera, or poor back-up lights that could illuminate better. And, frankly, BMW really did poorly on this one. Unlike software issues which can take some very specific circumstances to produce the problem, the poor camera picture is always there in near-low to low light. They should have caught this and corrected it before they even sold the first vehicle. VERY poor quality on BMW's part---and there is no excuse...other than to reduce costs. My friend's Lexus doesn't have this problem---nor does his Odyssey.

It does take awhile for the warning screen to disappear and then for the camera to come on, but on mine it is around 10 seconds. Prior to this upgrade it was much longer.

I don't have this issue, and it's not normal. It is normal if one has first started the vehicle (or pressed the PDC button), and gone into reverse...but only if close to objects.

This was fixed in the latest software version. It is pretty useful.

Mine is loud enough for me, but I have extremely good hearing. (Just had it tested, in fact.) I don't see a software upgrade fixing this on either.

If held, I believe. It shouldn't do it if just pressed once.

This was fixed in the latest software version.

Regardless of what can or cannot be fixed by software, if one is so unhappy with a 70K+ vehicle, s/he should dump it if it is an an option. There's nothing worse than not being "excited" about one's ride. The morning shouldn't be, "damn, I wonder what's going to happen today with the vehicle."

Joel

Thank you Joel. You've described my feeling exactly.

LOL good one!

PS. FSETH, thanks for making light of the problems that I've had with the car. Your turn will come.

Wow! You called me out and I thought I was taking it easy on you after reading some of the other posts. GPS can't find stores, 1-2 minutes for an I-Pod to load, back-up camera doesn't work in the dark, BMW didn't have an all-wheel drive loaner for me in a snow storm, are you serious? I know any X5 isn't the most reliable vehicle in the world. I wouldn't have bought my e53 without a warranty if that lets you know how I feel. I bought the X5 because even with it's issues it is still one of the best SUVs (sorry SAVs) around. I am also going to have to disagree with you on your comment of how the 2-wheel drive 911 drives better in the snow than your e70. Sure it does.

From the other readers advice, it sounds like the software update may fix alot of the "issues" you are experiencing. As far as Porsche goes, I do like the 911, but from the issues you are describing on the X5, you may be better off in a bug-free Honda or Toyota. There are about 15 car manufacturers below BMW's name on the J.D. Power reliability list before you get to Porsche.

If I paid as much as you did for your X I would be upset too, but you bought a car in it's first year of production. It is no surprise that early model run cars have some issues and you are experienceing them. Once again, it sounds like the update would have helped you out. Good luck with your next vehicle. I really hope you are not as frustrated with it as you are your X.

Good high road post. :thumbup:

I feel your pain Praetorian, best of luck with whatever you do

yeah your right that car has problems. I cannot believe it slides in the snow.:rofl:


I honestly believe you are still trying to find a reason to justify trading in your brand new car for a Porsche. But I am not sure who you are trying to convince.

All the issues are known issues and BMW should put them right, most of the problems are software issues as should be easliy sorted, I believe the Backup camera is a hardware issue and should be replaced by BMW FOC.

Bottom line is BMWs customer care is not what it used to be. That is what I hear and see.

I am a firm believer that you will have problems in every company however it is the way the problem is handled. That is what makes the differance.

One other factor is the amount of gadgetry in this thing. You're taking a risk by buying into it in the first place, then as others mentioned - first year run at that. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if you go to a 911 without even half the technology you've mentioned and never have a problem.

Still, it is/was BMW's responsibility to fix the issues and they've failed to right many wrongs in your case. Good luck.

Yeah, that's the same as on the Z4. I guess I assumed the original poster knew this and wasn't holding it down too long. I am a bit suprised that his dealer didn't tell him this when he complained about it. Just goes to show that reading the manual goes a long way to enjoying your vehicle more :zoom:

I understand, and agree, that most of my issues are minor, even trivial. These issues have existed and worsened since I got the car. In the beginning I was understanding because the dealer was trying to fix them, or so I thought.

Reading this site I learned that many of my problems have been fixed, so I went back to the dealer to have them resolved. After multiple times in for service, all issues remain and new ones have occurred.

The dealer had my car in December for almost a week to resolve the issues. I got it back with all the same issues there AND my car thought it was overdue for service, all my gps locations were erased and everything was in miles. It was simple to get back to kilometers, no problem. I had quite a few entries in the GPS so that was a pain, but it would have been worth it to get these problems fixed.

The issue there was that I had these other inconveniences (minor or otherwise) and NONE of the problems had been fixed. None had even been really addressed. Because I picked the car up late in the evening, they couldn't fix the service warning. I had to schedule it for the following week to take it in (which was just after Christmas and I was busy).

Sure it's a first year and we must accept some problems. I just don't think that it's unreasonable to expect that the dealer AND BMW should stand behind their product and at least try to resolve them. If they were trying I would have continued to work with them.

Making excuses for them just allows them to get away with poorer service. The X5 cost me $90k. Is it really unreasonable to expect things to work or BMW to at least try to fix things?


This time of year is my busiest time. I can't aff

Sounds like you moreover had an incompetent dealer, than an abnormal E70.

I agree, probably a bad service department more than a bad car. I tried to get a recommendation from BMW for another dealer (I didn't want to try them all out). They told me that all the dealers are the same.

I’ve just got the new car. I returned the X5 this afternoon and had to go back to the dealer this evening because I’d forgotten my iPod. They scanned my key when they took it back and discovered there has been an error in the system ever since they installed my trailer hitch.
The trailer hitch may (or the software update they did when they installed it) may have been causing all my problems! Interesting that they were able to discover this all from simply scanning the key!
What were they doing with my car all these times it was in for service if they couldn’t identify this before now?
I can’t say I’m upset about it all now. The X5 is somebody else’s problem. I’m happy to be driving a 911 from Pfaff. Maybe it’s the Porsche, maybe it’s Pfaff, but I have confidence in my car and them.

Congrats! I feel invested now. Upload a photo of the new ride if you can.

Are you dd'n the 911 in Toronto?

dd'n?

I'll post a picture in the sun (assuming we get some sun!)

daily driving :)

Oh! Yes it will be my daily driver. I had 911's that I drove all year round for about 10 years without any problem, and I'm happy to be doing it again!

PSM and snow tires is a good combo.

what kind of goodies/gadgets do you get in the 911, just curious.

DD 911, that blows...tried it, it sucked :) Great cars for the weekend, horrible for DD IMO.

egg nog!..assuming anyone knows what that is ...

not sure how the comparison can be made between a 911 and an E70 as a DD....

How can u expect to write a comment like ...E70 gone ..good riddance to people who actually love their BMW's then start slating BMW...ure boud to get some reaction..

Personally i have had terrible dealings with porsche and wouldnt give them the steam off my P%$$..(pardon the expression) even when my brother was buying his 2007 C2S just last year their customer care and after sales was at best abismial. not to mention the "trade in" values offered by them ...laughable!

To be honest about most of your comments about the 911 handeling better in the snow etc. are just laughable too, we dont get that much snow here in the uk anymore but we had a light covering about a month ago and my brothers c2s was pointless in it, were talking about 355bhp rear wheel drive, the frount end is light at the best of times let alone in the snow.. after i read that comment i really didnt bother reading anymore because clearly you are either insane or just lying...

sorry ..im only saying what other people are also thinking ..

I think this was all just an excuse with the wife to have a mid life crisis. If it works, go for it!
But why did you buy an SUV in the first place if you really wanted a small sports car?

There is a ton of commonality between the X5 and 911:

Both have motors
Both have wheels
Both have rims
Both have transmissions
Both have air bags
Both have seats
Etc.

The 911 doesn't have much ground clearance in the snow. I have owned two Porsche vehicles and won't own another.

Good luck,

Craig

I have also had a whole host of issues with my E70, but certainly would not go to the point of slating and comparing to a porche 911. P.S. You cannot fit 7 in a 911, I know I have one.

My Issues listed at 23 and visits to the dealership came in over 30.

Finally after much complaining I got BMW to exchange the vehicle for a new one.

I have asked around alot of other drivers, and have found that the first ones of the line (I got mine on Launch day) did have alot of issues.

Love the BMW for the drive.

How's your new vehicle treating ya?

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, including me.

My experience with the X5 and BMW was poor. I'm a bit jealous of all you X5 owners whose cars actually work.

I point out that my 911 handles better in the snow than my X5 to highlight that something was seriously wrong.

Whoopy-do, you live in the UK and you want to tell me about snow? I've got almost 6' of snow around my driveway now. Your X5 won't do ANY better than my 911 in this weather. Maybe the Porsche dealer network in the UK isn't up to snuff. I don't know anything about that.

A big part of my problems with BMW are with the dealership itself and with BMW Canada. As many people have said, many of my problems were quite minor. It was only through neglect that things got here.

I just hoped my comments served to help other X5 owners and potential owners.



I did want an SUV. I sold my last 911 4 years ago for an Avalanche and I enjoyed it. I thought the X5 would be a great car with the functionality of the Avalanche and the fun of the 911. This isn't a mid-life crisis because, fortunately for me, I'm not quite old enough for a mid-life crisis yet (I'll have to get the 911 Turbo for that!)

As far as options available on the 911, there are hundreds. If you can think it, they can do it. My car doesn't have many of those because I didn't order the car, I chose from the selection they had in stock. Mine is a basic C2S. My car has:

CARRERA CLASSIC WHEELS
HEATED FRONT SEATS
BOSE HIGH END SOUND PACKAGE
BLACK SPORT SEATS
LEATHER SPORT SEATS
PORSCHE CREST IN HEADREST
STAINLESS STEEL EXHAUST
SPORT CHRONO PACKAGE

Good luck to all of you current and future X5 owners. I wish you all the best.

PS. The driver for the dealer almost crashed my X5 on the way back to the dealership because something is not right (I think it's the ABS, but it may be more than that). I have no problem driving a 911 in a snowstorm, but my X5 made me really nervous to drive. My buddy has an '02 X5 4.4 and it drives great (and is actually more comfortable), it was why I bought one. I meant what I said - Good Riddance to MY X5 and MY X5 problems.

This was my experience.

Whoopy - did your brother have snow tires? I'm comparing snow tire equipped 911 to snow tire equipped X5. Despite my insanity I would have to agree that the summer 911 tires would make the car useless.

Insane or liar? Those are the only explanations to my problems? It couldn't have been that there were actually problems with my X5 that nobody would fix? No not that. I must be insane, because according to your thinking a sane person would just accept it?

Good of you to make this a personal attack on me.

I didn't get the 911 as a direct replacement for the X5, I got it because it was another car that I liked, and I have had great experiences with this Porsche dealer.

So long and thanks for all the fish.

Praetorian, I admire your persistence but give it up now... Thanks

he already did, where he signed off at the end of his last post

nothing wrong with his post imo, completely understandable

Just out of curiousity...Praetorian, which BMW Dealership...Budds, Parkview...?

No need to get personal.

open road

yeah point taken on the personal attack , accept my appoligies

enjoy the porsche when the snow melts its quite a car in the dry!

I must admit, he sorta lost me when he said "Your X5 won't do ANY better than my 911 in this weather."

He may be the only person in the World that claims a 911 with snow tires does as well in the snow as an X5.

But then who knows, perhaps he is right and everyone else is wrong.

It's possible.

didn't he mean that the snow or weather was so bad that it wasn't particularly driveable regardless of whether it was an suv or not?

Perhaps. I didn't read it that way, but maybe he did.

But I really can't see comparing a 911 to an X5, any more than comparing a Ford Shelby Mustang to an Expedition, or a Toyota Celica GT to a Titan... they're just two different beasts meant for different purposes.

"A big part of my problems with BMW are with the dealership itself"

The dealers around here are F'ed up too, but you just have to be persistent. If the SA isn't helpful, ask for the manager, call BMWNA, just don't give up. It's all economics, the dealer would rather be doing $120 oil changes or selling expensive new rims than doing warranty work on your car. I took mine back 3 times to fix a leaking windshield washer tank. In the end they replaced half a dozen parts - but it was fixed. Same with the steering wheel issue - 3 visits, but in the end it was also fixed.

For what it's worth, I had an Audi TT for 4 years that I would take over the X5 any day in a bad snowstorm. I had driven that car in some terrible blizzards to Vail, Aspen, Tahoe, Park City, etc. The difference however is that the TT did have quattro amazing Nokian snow tires on little 16" rims, so it would have an advantage over a rear wheel drive 911. But as some of you may know firsthand, there is no shortage of Porsche 911's in the parking lot of ski resorts in Aspen, Telluride, etc so those guys must be crazy too or they just know how to handle the car in the snow with good tires!

Comparing a SUV to a sports coupe is also comparing apples to oranges.

I have an Avalanche as well and while it makes more sense comparing that to an x5 the difference is also like comparing an abacus to a calculator.
X5 is far more advanced technically everything is contolled and managed through a computer while the avalanche is not.

It seems most of your problems with the vehicle are adjusting to new high tech features available in vehicles today and have too high expectations about them, your biggest concern should be you dealer like most have pointed out.

The quality of service you get are totally different depending on the car and should be expected. I've owned cars and SUVs from Honda, Chevy, Jeep/Chrysler, Cadillac, Mercedes, BMW, Porsche and Aston Martin, so far BMW service experience is the best. It doesn't feel like a hassle when taking it in for service like it did with all my other vehicles.

Either way, Goodluck

yeah totally agee

I might add that the 911 weighs about 3,500 lbs and the X5 about 5,300 (the giant Ford Expedition is only about 300 lbs heavier at 5,600.)

As BMW says about their DSC, as good as it might be, it cannot revoke the laws of physics.

I have to say, aside from the ground clearance, my 911 turbo runs like a rocket in snow while wearing its snow shoes. There are a lot of videos out on youtube. The issue would be holding back when all that power is on tap, there's no Winter switch on the 6 speed gearbox to start you out with reduced torque in second gear.

Xdrive should be fun to try out, not just in the wet, but in the dry too.

And, his C2S, not quite the snow mobile that the C4 or turbo (also AWD) are. But then again, my driveway doesn't have 6 inches next to it, more like 9 feet. Snowbird already passed the 400 inch mark, over 30 feet of snow has fallen.

People get dud vehicles, whether its caused by software that takes BMW 5 months to fix or if its dealer fault or not, its still a dud when it cannot be fixed.

My X5 E70 RHD drove left from the day I picked it up, BMW flew out 3 different sets of control arms out from Germany over a 3 week period and could not fix it. The castor is set for LHD and with no castor adjustment on the X5, a combination of our heavy cambered roads here and the 5mm the LH front was set back could not be dialled out. I even had the X5 tested by a independent agency to prove the driving left problem.

Handed them back the X5 one month after I got it and we have no lemon laws here. Between BMW head office and the dealer I have been in a loaner for 5 months and fought all the way.

My new X5 E70 SD arrived on the docks today and will get it in about 2 weeks.

There is no love lost between BMW Head Office & myself, the dealer though has been terrific. The standard head office reply to the above is to your face admit, then go away and think about it, then come back and denial, denial, denial. It just boils done how big your b**ls are.

Anyway, got a loaner, got another new E70, this time the SD version, hence the long wait, plus I wanted a 2008 build, so I had to pay for the better diesel, there is a price difference here between the 3.0d and 3.0SD and I had to pay that difference of around $6,000.

So I am happy and it would have made know differnece whether I was dealing with BMW or any other vehicle manufacture, they don't want to know about dud cars and they all stick to the same line, so at the end of the day you either fight for your rights or lump it. And if you lump it then you buy a differnet brand next time.

All manufactures have duds, you just have to be unlucky enough to get one. It was just my turn, I have never bought a secondhand car, from the age of 18yr I have had a new cars and that was 37 yrs ago and my number came up thats all.

My own experience with BMW Head Office is the same as above. they do not listen. Between the Head Office and the Dealer, I stuck it out and my new car arrives next week.

ONe thisng though, BMW would noy let get an SD, apparently it was too long a wait. I have been waiting 5 months for my replacement 3.0D.

The Dealer did give back my own car which I will just change over.

It is really unlucky to get a Lemon, and we do get Lemon laws in UK.

What was the main problem with your X5?

Internal trim was damaged by dealer
Rear Door allignment
Leather stiching
Steering wheel stiching
CD player did not work
Heated seat did not work
iDrive stopped working
Car refused to be coded (Spent 4 weeks setting up special code)
Adaptive Drive Failure
Boot stopped closing
Would not start
Battery drained to quickly
Alarm kept going off
Alarm had a damp sound
Internal door handle fell off
External door handle broke

The list goes on.....

You're going to the wrong dealer. Russel BMW is one of the best I've ever been to and I've been to nearly 10 different dealers in my BMW time.

Have you thought about the Cayenne? I used to own one and I loved it until I got an 08 X5...until I sold it back after like 1500 miles and bought a Mercedes.

Look at the thread about my X5 gone wrong:

http://www.xoutpost.com/x5-e70-forum/...t-e63-amg.html

Well, I thought I'd come back to see if anybody else posted here. I was curious. I was also disapointed that my experiences seemed not to be isolated. I probably could have stuck with it and got some of my issues fixed, but I was so tired of the dealers attitude and BMW's lack of care.

My dealer was Open Road BMW in Newmarket. I cannot think of a single good thing to say about this dealership. My car was delayed when I bought it, by a few months so that I actually had to give my last car back on its lease. Open road loaned me another car at a cost of $250/week.

Service was always slow, and although they were very polite when I arrived, I don't think their technicians really knew their stuff. Maybe they did, but I never saw any evidence of that.

As to the car itself. I tried the Q7, a few MB's, and the Accura MDX, before settling on the X5. I chose the X5 because it was about the most fun to drive, although th Q7 was really nice also. I thought BMW had a good reputation for service.

This was an expensive lesson for me, but I'm happy now. My 911 really does drive better in the snow than my X5. I won't be towing anything and I have much less cargo space, but it's a trade off I'm happy with.

As to a 911 being a daily driver. It's the perfect car to drive every day. If I had 2 other cars, I can't imagine driving them much.

I also really like my dealer, Pfaff Porshe. Open Road could learn something there.

Good luck to all. I hope that I made enough stink with BMW that they try to improve things in the future for the rest of you. Probably not, but it's one more voice. Eventually they will listen.