Is there any sign of a SIB for Excessive Battery Discharge?
 

There have been a few previous thread's where members reported excessive battery drain messages where they had to reset date/time etc.

Does anyone know of a SIB being issued for this yet?

Good question. I would like to know also. I have seen this excessive battery discharge message 3 times too many.

I've had this already but it was to do with my Trackstar 5

They put a new unit and no messages since

ive only had mine since last saturday but had the messgae " high rate of battery dischage" at least once every day .. im assuming its my tracker too as its a gps 24 hour one...

I don't have Tracker, so there must be another source for mine.

I'd get that checked though - mine was a faulty unit which they have now changed

It wasn't however draining the battery it was just setting the light off !

They were having the same problem here in NA. The Boomerang system was draining the battery and causing havoc with the electronics, alarm. Now the only one they recommend is the Boomerang 2.

SIB for battery discharge problem
 

Yeah, there is a service bulletin. I kept getting the "Excessive battery drain" warning on my i-Drive screen on my 08' 4.8i.

The BMW SIB is 61 02 07

I had this done in early Feb. 2008.

Hope this helps guys! :thumbup:

do you have a copy of the bulletin?

All I have is my Service Invoice, when I picked my vehicle up. It does not state what they did in great detail, but it does list the SIB number that I provided in my last post.

With all the Bimmers I've had over the years, not once was I ever given a copy of the actual Service Bulletin...just the SIB# on the invoice.

Sorry!

Can anyone else access the details of this SIB?

TIA

See the other thread for the SIB.

Here it is in case you can't find it later:

SIB 610207

Excellent, Thanks.

Check out this one too. Interesting.

which one??

SIB 620507

http://www.bmwtis.net/images/homelogo.gifSI B 62 05 07
Instruments
March 2007
Technical Servicehttp://www.bmwtis.net/tsb/bulletins/...mp/graybar.gif
SUBJECT
Clock Resets and/or Battery Discharged

MODEL
E70 (X5)

SITUATION
The customer states that the clock resets. In extreme cases the battery may become discharged.
INSTR (Instrument Cluster) fault "A559 Supply was switched off (terminal 30g_f)" may be stored.
CAUSE
The terminal 30g_f fault stored in the Instrument Cluster does not indicate a defect in the cluster, rather a disconnection of the power supply of the instrument cluster by the JBE (Junction Box Electronics), to protect the battery from becoming fully discharged. This disconnection can be caused by any one of the following:

• Frequent wakeups
• Closed circuit current faults
• Sleeping inhibited
• Driving profile
• Starting capability limit reached

PROCEDURE
Follow the DIS test plan for the instrument cluster fault. The test plan will be amended to bring up the Energy Diagnosis test plan. The Energy Diagnosis test plan can also be called up manually by selecting "Function selection/Complete vehicle/Body/Power supply/Energy diagnosis/Execute energy diagnosis".
Once you get to the results screen "The energy diagnosis procedure analyzed following information from the vehicle:" select [1] Notable information (number 1). The number that is indicated in parenthesis is the number of most likely causes. Always select button [1] first and continue troubleshooting as per the test plan.
Refer to SI B61 08 00 for more information on closed circuit current diagnosis.
WARRANTY INFORMATION
Covered under the terms of the BMW New Vehicle Limited Warranty.
Defect Code
Refer to KSD
Labor Operation:
Refer to KSD
Labor Allowance:
Refer to KSD

SIB 610800

http://www.bmwtis.net/images/homelogo.gifSI B 61 08 00
General Electrical Systems
November 2007
Technical Servicehttp://www.bmwtis.net/tsb/bulletins/...mp/graybar.gif
This Service Information bulletins supersedes SI B61 08 00 dated June 2007.
http://www.bmwtis.net/tsb/bulletins/...c_temp/new.gif designates changes to this revision
SUBJECT
Closed-Circuit Current Measurement

MODEL
All

SITUATION
Increased closed-circuit currents may occur permanently or intermittently and cause the battery to discharge prematurely. The increase in closed-circuit current may be caused by a faulty control unit, or by the installation of a non-approved accessory.
In a situation where a vehicle has broken down due to a discharged battery, for diagnostic purposes it is important not to disconnect the battery. This is because a control unit will be reset if the battery is disconnected. Following a reset, the faulty control unit may start functioning correctly again, making accurate diagnosis impossible.
To correctly measure closed-circuit current, the 50-amp clip-on probe can be used in conjunction with the DISPlus to properly diagnosis closed-circuit current problems over an extended period of time. Refer to Service Information B04 07 01 for information about the 50-amp clip-on probe used with the DISPlus. A new 50-amp clip-on probe (refer to SI B04 16 04) can be used with the GT1 in conjunction with the MIB (Measurement Interface Box). Refer to SI B08 02 04 for information about the MIB.
PROCEDURE

1. It is very important that any "Power management" faults stored are diagnosed and corrected and that the "Energy Diagnosis" test plan be carried out before the following procedure is performed.
2. Check and test the battery using the BMW Battery Tester. Refer to SI B 04 25 02 for information about the BMW Battery. If necessary, recharge or replace the battery.
3. If the battery is installed in the trunk, open the trunk and turn the lock to the locked position using a screwdriver or similar (simulates the trunk lid being closed). The hood must be closed.If the battery is installed in the engine compartment, open the hood and pull the front lid contact switch fully up and lock in this position (workshop position, simulates the front lid being closed). The trunk must be closed.
4. With the exception of the trunk/hood above, all other doors/lids must be closed.
5. In order to simulate normal closed-circuit conditions:
   • Turn the ignition on and activate all electrical consumers, including any accessories. Turn the ignition off. In some cases, a drive cycle may need to be carried out in order to duplicate a closed-circuit current problem.
   • Open and close the driver's door (simulates somebody getting out).
   • Lock the car, arming the DWA if this is installed.
6. In general, closed-circuit current consistently over 50 mA must be investigated. Depending on the vehicle's equipment, closed-circuit current by vehicle model is approximately as follows:

E31
50 milliamps after 16 minutes
E32
50 milliamps after 16 minutes
E34
40 milliamps after 16 minutes
E36, Z3
30 milliamps after 16 minutes
E38
50 milliamps after 16 minutes
E39
40 milliamps after 16 minutes
E46
40 milliamps after 16 minutes
E60, E61, E63, E64
40 milliamps after 60-70 minutes
E65, E66
40 milliamps after 60-70 minutes
E53
40 milliamps after 16 minutes
E70
40 milliamps after 60-70 minutes with TCU (30 minutes without TCU)
E83
40 milliamps after 16 minutes
E90, E91, E92, E93
40 milliamps after 60-70 minutes with TCU (30 minutes without TCU)
E85
40 milliamps after 16 minutes
E52
50 milliamps after 16 minutes

1. If the nominal milliamp reading is not achieved after the appropriate time, refer to the attached troubleshooting charts:
   • E60, E63, E64 Closed-Circuit Current Troubleshooting E6x up to 9/05 production
   • http://www.bmwtis.net/tsb/bulletins/...c_temp/new.gif E60, E61 Closed-Circuit Current Troubleshooting from 9/05 production
   • E65, E66 Closed-Circuit Current Troubleshooting up to 3/04 production
   • E65, E66 Closed-Circuit Current Troubleshooting from 3/04 production
   • E90, E91, E92 Energy Diagnosis Hints
   • E70 Energy Diagnosis Hints.

CLOSED-CIRCUIT CURRENT MEASUREMENT WITH THE DISPLUS/GT1:
Note: This technique with a DISPlus/GT1 is particularly suitable for extended measurements and provides a graphical readout of recorded measurements over time. It is recommended for situations where the use of a multimeter provides insufficient information for problem diagnosis.
Select "Oscilloscope display" on the Oscilloscope settings screen to start recording measurements. Select the Log Scale/Lin Scale button to switch over to the Log Scale. This will provide the best visual trace of the closed-circuit measurement. Note: Pressing the "Oscilloscope settings" button will delete any recorded measurements.
Oscilloscope Setting
http://www.bmwtis.net/tsb/bulletins/...E/S6104U19.JPG

• Select "Writer mode".
• Select "Current 50A" under "Test connection".
• Select "=" under "Type of measurement".
• Set "Measuring range" to "10 A" scale.
• Set "Frequency range" based on how long a trace is required. Refer to the chart below for examples.

Frequency range - The frequency range determines how frequently and for how long a measured value is recorded. The larger the frequency range, the more frequently a measured value is recorded, and the shorter the maximum stored recording duration.
Examples:
Set "Frequency range"
Number of Measurements
Maximum duration of recording
2 mHz
1 per second
83 minutes
1 mHz
1 every 2 seconds
2.7 hours
0.4 mHz
1 every 5 seconds
5.5 hours
0.2 mHz
1 every 20 seconds
27.7 hours
Oscilloscope Display
http://www.bmwtis.net/tsb/bulletins/...E/S6104U20.JPG

• Select "Oscilloscope Display".
• A box will pop up calibrating the 50-Amp clamp. Make sure the clamp is not connected to anything and then select "OK".
• Once the display screen is present, the measurement will be started. Select Log Scale/Lin Scale to switch over to Log Scale. The Log Scale screen will then be displayed in 3 different measurement ranges. This ensures that when the closed circuit current measurement drops through the various ranges, the reading will be graphically displayed on one screen without changing settings.

Displaying and Understanding Measurements (see illustration below):
http://www.bmwtis.net/tsb/bulletins/...E/S6104U21.JPG

• Stop recording measurements by pressing the "Hold Screen" button. Note: If the "Hold Screen" button is pressed again, the recorded measurements will immediately be deleted and new measurements started.
• Recorded data may be called up by pressing the screen button "Memory" and paging through with the aid of the "arrow keys" on the upper corners of the screen. When the maximum recording duration has been used, measured values can be called up for a total of 10 screens.
• Momentary current fluctuations are normal and should be ignored. The "Maximum" display captures these momentary fluctuations and also should be ignored.
• An increased closed-circuit current will also be intermittently measured for a few seconds due to the use of remote-control keys of other vehicles, or other radio transmitters in the frequency range 315 MHz. In these cases, the General Module wakes up for key identification, then goes back to sleep when its own key is not recognized. This is normal operation.
• On vehicles equipped with BMW ASSIST, there are additional current fluctuations as high as 500ma that last for approximately 2 minutes. The fluctuations occur every 15 minutes for up to 14 hours after key off. This is considered the normal operation of the TCU and should not be considered a fault. This also applies to 2005 TCUs that are installed into earlier production vehicles as replacement parts.
• http://www.bmwtis.net/tsb/bulletins/...c_temp/new.gif On E65 and E66 vehicles equipped with Comfort Access, the Troubleshooting attachment for vehicles from 3/2004 has been updated to include additional information on how to troubleshoot the Comfort Access system. Thanks to Sergio Escudero from Braman Motorcars for this information.

WARRANTY INFORMATION
Information only

ATTACHMENTS
view PDF attachment B610800Troubleshooting_E6x_up_to_9_2005.
view PDF attachment B610800Troubleshooting_E65_up_to_3_2004.
view PDF attachment B610800Troubleshooting_E65_from_3_2004.
view PDF attachment B610800Energy_Diagnosis_Hints_E70.
view PDF attachment B610800Energy_Diagnosis_Hints_E90_E91_E92.
view PDF attachment B610800Closed_Circuit_Current_E6x_fr_9_2005.

It appears this last SIB has been updated at least twice. Since the battery drain problem still seems to be an issue, I'll post the updated SIB.

SIB 610800

SIB 610800

SIB 610800

SIB 610800

SIB 610800

It appears this last SIB has been updated at least two more times yet again (June 2009 and November 2009). Here is the November 2009 update (SIB 610800)

SIB 610800 updated again in January 2010 from November 2009.

No Answer
 

In my case still no answer. Owned the 07 E70 4.8 since new April 07. Now on third battery and get high draining control messages all the time. Had it two days this week now back in. SIB or not they have no answer. Worst car I have ever had. Comes on every 40 minutes during sleep time and pulls big time amps but no reason why. No Bluetooth used, no aftermarket anything. Comfort access, premium stereo, Nav and cold weather package are my options and I lock it each night and keep the key far away. Really wish they had a clue what they are doing. Still think they are made at the old Yugo plant.

While I do realize that this is not a solution, have you considered connecting the battery periodically to a charger like the CTEK US 3300?

http://www.xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-foru...w-one-fyi.html

Also see these SIB's for some possible help:

SIB 610108
SIB 610707
SIB 611107

Do you keep going back to the same old incompetent dealership you've always used?

Maybe time to explore other options with BMWNA.

Also, if you have old documented work orders with this issue listed, you may be able to use those old dates to press your claims- including lemon.

GL

A

Thanks for posting all these SIBs relating to electrical issues. If nothing else, they should show E70 X5 owners that there are multiple physical and electronic problems that can lead to a similar result -- "battery problems".

Unfortunately diagnosing the real cause of an intermittent electrical problem is much more difficult than telling the customer that they just don't drive their E70 enough to keep the battery charged. :(

Funf Dreisig

Wait on that one. Monday pick up SUV with new battery and sunroof module which was the trouble this time (they thought). Drive to work and back and lunch Tuesday. Drive to work Wednesday get in SUV to drive home and high battery drain contol message. This is more than drive time. They know all that information and they told me how long my last 100 trips were. If you are ober 5 miles a day it should not be an issue. I do not use Bluetoothin the SAV which is thought to be another issue and always and always lock the car which put it to sleep in theory.

I am on my second dealer in town as the first really was poor. There are only two. They have a high rating but it seems like no suppoprt on issues like this.

I do have a trickle charger and have had for some. That is how I get it up enough to get it to the dealer sometimes. However plugging a car in evry other day or evnery day masks the issue and does not help at all when you want to drive away from home overnight and worry if you will get back.

Thanks. I would think a dealer with BMW's top rating would have these but I had sent ther first one on already and will do the others. It wakes up every 40 minutes or so for a couple of minutes at 9 amps or so where something like 80 ma is norm. Then it sleeps again until next time. It you are not driving it it is slowy draining and it does not take long. I need to get hold of customer service BMWNA to start.

Happy to help. And yes I agree with your point entirely.

For what it is worth, my calculations show that if you start with an 85 amp hour battery that is fully charged a 9 amp drain for 4 minutes every 40 minutes would drain the battery in about 95 hours. If your battery is not fully charged it the time could be much less.

It would be nice to know what caused the periodic 9 amp drain.

Chuck

In the service bulletin it says "Increased closed-circuit currents may occur permanently or intermittently and cause the battery to discharge prematurely. The increase in closed-circuit current may be caused by a faulty control unit"

What control unit would it be referencing or is this a general reference to any control units for particular items?

My X5 has been just fine until six months ago and is driving me crazy. Since it performed just fine for several years, something is powering up intermitently to drain power.

Idle speculation:

BMW uses various electrical buses for communication: entertainment and car control (I-Bus, K-bus).. a common thread is that these buses have modules that 'listen' to the bus and when a command comes that is 'theirs' they will wake up and respond.

Increased RF into the bus- perhaps due to degradation of bus damping circuitry- can cause this, or a module could be bad and be responding to spurious signals (ie it becomes too sensitive). Or a module could go bad and generate spurious signals.

I suspect that BMW Techs at dealerships barely have a clue as to how these systems work....

I've been a member of yahoo Hack the I-bus for years.... good info there, but I dont have this problem so I haven't looked.

A

This discussion is a bit technically over my head. But, I have to say that this issue is causing me some concern. For day to day use, I do not see a problem. Granted, I do a lot of short trips day to day driving (2 miles here and there) with no real commute. I've had my X5 30i for just over three weeks and make sure that I take it out for a 20 or 30 mile drive at interval of no longer than 2 weeks to make sure I put another charge on the battery (never had to do this with any other vehicle but SA recommends it sooo...). But 95 hours of non-use killing a battery is ridiculous. While I have never had a vehicle that I had to pay attention to the battery charge, especially a brand new vehicle, I am more concerned about a battery draining during non-use. What do people do when they go away and leave the vehicle unused? I live 2 hours from the airport and when I travel, I drive down and leave my car in a secure off-airport lot. When I travel, it is often for a week or two and occasionally three weeks. Do I need to be concerned that I will be coming back to a dead vehicle because I parked it for a week or longer? At these lots, while secure, there is certainly no provisions for trickle chargers. Will someone please educate me in more layman's terms? T.I.A.

Is there no way to put the car in some type of "hibernate" mode to prevent such a drain? This issue really makes no sense to me.

Red..

I also travel a great deal and have monitored this board for the two plus years I've owned my X. To date I have not come back (18 days was longest trip) to a dead battery, but did have one after a week of 100 mile commutes (it sat for the weekend), so the drain seems to be cummulative.

In my instance the vehicle reported I had opened the doors too much without running the car...I detailed it saturday and it was dead monday, which is something i do every weekend, so it's very strange it showed up suddenly.

I think almost everyone here feels this is an oddity in todays world, and would guess that most of us have had failures at strange moments. My business partner has less then 10k miles on his 2009 and drives 1 mile per day to work, but has never had an issue (yet), so who knows.....

Carry jumper cables, keep copies of the relevent pages of the owners manual (jump starting, manually putting tranny in nuetral, manually disengaging parking brake) and the "red handle" in the drivers door pocket and if someting happens, you'll be OK.

Thanks X. I do carry precautionary equipment, manual, etc. Of course we have Assist and I have AAA too. I am not really "worried". it just does not make much sense to me. After following these forums for the last two months, I am beginning to think the X5 may be the most finicky of vehicles. True, I could have read a lot more before ordering but I have had 20 other vehicles and never gave a moments thought to how often I drive them, how far, "...battery that is fully charged a 9 amp drain for 4 minutes every 40 minutes would drain the battery in about 95 hours. If your battery is not fully charged it the time could be much less." - makes one wonder how to leave the car for a week or two without trickle charging, oil separator issues, hyper-sensitive alignments, and more (all on just the 30i - the 35d has waaaaay many more finickies...). I have a "bookmarks" (favorites) file with links many threads across three forums - the file is labeled "BMW Quality Issues to monitor". Never had to do this for any of my previous 20 vehicles.

Perhaps this has always been the case for "well engineered high performance expensive vehicles" and I never knew because I always had basic american cars. Or, perhaps the X5 is just a really finicky vehicle. I am not complaining, just surprised that almost every week I find another sensitivity (on these forums) I need to be aware of and pay attention to. I guess I could avoid it all and stay off the forums ("ignorance is bliss") but living over 100 miles from a BMW dealership leaves less willing to embrace ignorance. "Dealing" with it as it comes, is really inconvenient so I am better off prepared: "an ounce of prevention...".

Yes, following forums inherently entails reading problems because people tend to post problems and complaints more than compliments. I do really like the X5. And, with so much electronics ("more things to go wrong" as my step father used to say - he bought only roll up windows)... the list just seems to go on and on and on...

Update or lack of
 

In my case the X5 is still at the dealer. Pretty much since Feb 8th less three days I had it before the control message came on again. There is no update as they are talking with NJ which seems confused also. I passed on some posts and SIBs but the head foreman does not have a high opinion of those who post. Just enough information to be dangerious. I wrote to BMWNA but never heard back which in itself is shameful. Next I write to a couple of board members of BMW in Munich. Shame to try that just to get some customer service. The drainage issue is still there but not all the time. I was also told the control message could come on with even a very small difference over what the expected draw was to be which is a few milliamps just to check itself every 40 minues or so. However even that is not norm and in my case over time or the SAV can die. It is a pain when you want to get to work or say at an airport parking lot.

Unfortunately, it appears that this is the only sure answer for those having the problem:

Amazon.com: Clore Automotive ES5000 12 Volt Portable Battery Booster Pack: Automotive

BMW will probably get this figured-out in 3-4 years or so. That's about how long it took them to fix a similar problem on their motorcycles in the early 1990's.

For a while the battery problems on their motorcycles were so bad they were automatically giving a free battery charger with every new motorcycle sold in the U.S. OF course, BMW denied there was any problem, and it was the owner's fault for not riding the bike enough. But, oddly enough, after a few years they stopped with the free battery chargers and there were no more complaints about dead batteries. I guess all of a sudden the US motorcycle riders started riding their bikes more often and on longer trips!

Thanks Penguin,
It amazes me that I might have to buy one of these if I want to leave my car at the airport for a week or two. The unit you linked is 1500 peak amps. this one: Amazon.com: Clore Automotive ES2500KE 12 Volt Portable Battery Booster Pack: Automotive is 900. Being mechanignorant, as I am, have to ask: is the 1500 needed or would 900 suffice to get an X5 started?

I was amazed at some of the statements coming out of the mouths of Sales associates during the sales process. Now, to hear service departments making statements like "user error for opening the doors too often with a 100 mile commute"?...:wow:

Edit, Penguin, do you know how long those units will hold a charge (weeks, months...?). Thanks again.

The 900 amp would work, but... (a) as the battery in the jumper pack gets older, it will begin to fail. If you start with 1500 amp capacity, it will continue to work as good as the 900 peak amp version when it has lost 40% of its capacity, (b) the battery pack will slowly discharge, particularly if it is kept in a hot vehicle in the Summer. A top-off charge of the jumper pack should be done every 90 days if not used. If you were to forget, then the 1500 peak amp model would still work, even if it was considerably down on a charge, while the 900 might be too low.

For those reasons, I went for the 1500 peak amp, in spite of the extra cost... you cannot have too much capacity, but if you have too little, it defeats the purpose. The only reason I would go for the 900 version would be if I was really short of cash, or if the lower weight and somewhat smaller size of the 900 was important for some reason.


P.S. Having one of these in your vehicle also gives you the opportunity to be a good Samaritan to others, without the necessity of hooking jumper cables to your X5, which I would prefer not to do, in view of the complexity of the X5 electrical system.

The funny thing is, since purchasing my new Lexus GX 460 premium , I haven't had to plug it in once LOL!

Craig

Thanks again. If I can pull off an X5, I can manage the extra $40. Of course, these little add-ons do add up more than with other vehicles but thanks for the advice! I don't travel more than a few times each year but if this will save me a major hassle...:beerchug:

BTW, haven't had "the problem" but don't want to come back from a trip to a dead battery and have to sit next to my car waiting either...

Likewise. I have not had the problem (yet), but I plan to go camping a lot this Summer and can see it happening due to "doors opened and closed to many times between starts," since opening the door seems to wake up the vehicle and start the glow plug.

I might mount one of those CTEK "Comfort Indicator" battery charger cords permanently, so the flashing LED will give me an indication that the battery is getting low before it gets "too dead."

I'd like to know more about this, if you don't mind elaborating - keeping in mind my relative machanignorance ;) I often can go a month without traveling more than 2 miles/trip from my home. If I buy the unit you linked: Amazon.com: Clore Automotive ES5000 12 Volt Portable Battery Booster Pack: Automotive I should be fine (even tho my SA recommended driving 20 or 30 miles at least every 2 weeks).

I cannot help but wonder if this is a problem on all BMWs or exclusive to the X5. Mine is not diesel so I don't have glow plugs. But, I do hear a bunch of stuff kick on whenever I open a door. Mine is also a comparatively low build with only Prem, tech and heated seats as electrical extras. Other X5 (and other models) often have way more electronics. Also find myself wondering if this issue is truly statistically prominent or an occasional glitch we see as forum followers. X5 has certainly suffered reliability ratings drops but then again, Service departments are pretty quick to claim "driver error" for things like opening doors too. :troutslap

Check-out page two of this brochure, under "Comfort Indicator."

http://www.ctek.com/PDF/folder_USA_low.pdf

The appropriate LED blinks, sorta like the alarm LED on the mirror, so I don't think it would drain the battery (since the indicator is always "on" if you wire one in.) It's also discussed a bit in the "Battery Charger" thread of the past couple of days. If I added the indicator, I would probably hook it to the jumper terminals/bolts in the engine compartment and route it to be near the grill/hood opening in the front.

lack of progress
 

Just for information my X5 is a gas 4.8 liter with comfort access, cold package, premium, and premium stereo. I wondered about the comfort access being an issue but now think it is a bad design or construction. I would not trust any car built in SC but have had loaners for weeks on end and have no issue with 1 series, 3 series and 5 series. More than one of each too. Been in two different 5 series since Feb 8th. No reply from BMW NA so now will write to corporate.

Yes I should get an emergency battery and already have a trickle charger but after paying $66,000 for a SUV we should not be having these discussions and the company should be more responsive. Being in service a lot I do notice more X5, X3 and Z4 than anything and all are made in SC. Sometimes I get control message but other times just a dead car that worked fine and had no messages the day before.
How could anyone own one off warranty?

As any of you who have had one die it is a pain. Everything is electronic, transmission, emergency brake, rear hatch. Just push you BMW assist button? Well that is dead too. Like I said before I would never drive out of cell coverage.

FWIW the voice communications part of BMW Assist is cellular -- GSM in the most recent models. AFAIK if we want to talk to someone at BMW Assist via the SOS button, we are really talking about staying within AT&T (and possibly T-Mobile) cell coverage :(

So keep that red T-Handle tool and your jumper cables handy.

Funf Dreisig

I agree with you 100%. I got tired of plugging mine in every night and waiting on parts for months. I traded mine last week for a Lexus GX 460 premium.

Good luck,

Craig

Not to go OT (but I will), but this is another one of the many little issues I don't understand as I become familiar with my X5. The nav units (maps) were recently changed from a USA based company to a European based company for USA maps and USA vehicles. While GSM phone tech certainly makes sense for European vehicles, the X5, X3 and Z4 (others?) are all made in USA and one has not far to look to see CDMA tech has way more cell and 3G coverage in the USA than GSM - "There's a map for that". So, having an "SOS" button that has very limited coverage and a data system that is even more limited just both seem way below what one would hope for a top of the line car maker with "sophisticated engineering". I know this sounds like sniveling but battery tenders, $1900 nav units that do not work as well as $200 over the counter models, oil separators, laggy initial throttle response, not telling customers about included features so they buy redundant ones, peeling interior knobs and other surfaces they don't want to warranty, finicky alignments, service excessively blaming "driver error" to escape covering issues on a vehicle that supposedly has full maintenance within warranty periods, etc., etc.,...

Don't get me wrong, I really like the X5 but I just don't see these adding up to the engineering reputation of BMW. The car is most certainly well engineered in other aspects and when it works (as I certainly hope mine continues to do) it an absolute pleasure to drive. But, with issues lists like these, it is no wonder that reliability ratings are falling and it seems that decisions are going in the exact opposite direction of any effort to correct the reliability ratings.. It seems that decisions are being made to reduce costs even at the expense of worsening reliability, quality, customer loyalty, repeat business, etc. It is a great drive but I would hope for more from a vehicle ranging between $50k-$70k+. Having had over 20 vehicles, and none with a list of issues requiring monitoring like this, it just becomes "one of those things that makes you go Hmmmmmmm?!" http://207.218.242.35/default/images...s/thinking.gif (Arsenio Hall)

I was aware that BMW changed the source of their software to TeleAtlas (Europe) from Navteq (USA), but I wasn't aware that they had switched the hardware from CDMA to GSM. I'm curious as to the source of your information. I would be interested in more details.

Oh, and while I am not certain, I believe those maps are for 3G coverage, not voice. Does BMWAssist require 3G coverage, or just voice coverage to work?

The BMW assist uses the GSM network of AT&T... I would think just the voice coverage to work.

Craig

I did not state that BMW switched from CDMA to GSM. I only declared the obvious that CDMA has much greater coverage coast to coast and would be a far superior alternative here in the USA (similar to Navteq being far superior - for USA maps - than European TeleAtlas - for USA maps). While obvious the maps ARE for 3G, and GSM does have wider ranging EDGE coverage - so all is not as dim as the Verizon advertisements might indicate, GSM uses roaming partners with HUGE gaps in coverage and EDGE is like the difference between dial-up vs broadband. So, my statement remains, these are low-end decisions in a high-end vehicle. The cost difference has to be sooooo minimal as to really not justify the savings vs customer satisfaction. As my post indicates, I just do not understand the apparent pattern of managerial decisions for a top of the line car manufacturer wrestling with reliability issues in an economy in which companies just cannot afford to lose market share. It seems, and I am not a car manufacturer, that the pattern of decisions points in the direction of "penny wise and dollar foolish".

Our call to initialize BMW assist was made from our cabin. The connection was quite good. We get full bars of GSM (AT&T) coverage and we get ZERO bars of CDMA coverage at our cabin. There's a map for that and it is on the Verizon and Sprint web sites which confirm what I already knew :)

Subsequent to this test I checked and discovered that BMW has transitioned it's full product line (except the X3) to the world wide GSM standard. IIRC you can tell which models use GSM by whether you can send MyInfo from Google maps.

Funf Dreisig

Edit: Here is the thread I started on this subject last year.

Of course there are always exceptions :)

Although our cabin is only a few miles from a honkin' tall Verizon/Sprint tower, it is behind a 250' high hill and we get ZERO coverage from that or any other CDMA tower. I have a Sprint laptop card and router that is even less useful than a door stop (it's too light) :cool:

OTOH we get fabulous voice GSM coverage, yes even 3G data. An AT&T Lightning USB connection provides our ONLY internet coverage.:D

Funf Dreisig

Wow did this get off topic. So what the heck let me chime in...

1. BMW Assist uses Verizon, not At&T or T-Mobile according to all the information I've read from BMW. Maybe that has changed with new models, etc? I'm not sure.

2. The Tele Atlas Nav issue (see my thread in the Nav forum: http://www.xoutpost.com/navigation-s...n-goodbye.html ) is a ridiculous one and to me just shows that BMW is no longer going to be improving an old model (like Microsoft ending support for older Windows versions). I don't like it, but I can understand why they are doing it.

3. Speaking of BMW Assist, here's a good one for you. In the E53 X5 the emergency button on the headliner is actually 2 buttons (unlike in the E70 or other newer BMW's that just have one button) arranged in a rocker-type of switch. One button (the SOS) was for calling BMW Assist. The other button (picture of a wrench) was for calling BMW Roadside Assistance. They are two separate entities. Now in case you didn't know, BMW Roadside Assistance was included with the E53 X5 for 4 years and if it was a CPO then 6 years. BMW Assist however was only included for the 1st year of ownership and thereafter it costs a whopping $199 per year! Well when BMW introduced new models with just one emergency button (the SOS button) which will only call BMW Assist, they also dropped support of the older BMW's Roadside Assistance button! So in an E53 X5, both buttons now ONLY call BMW Assist! Why is that a problem? Well, if your car is still less than 6 years old (and so still has BMW Roadside Assistance) and you don't pay $199 per year for BMW Assist then the emergency buttons on the headliner are worthless to you. If you need access to BMW Roadside Assistance then you better have your cell phone handy with the number programmed into it. Nice job BMW :thumbup:

First attachment is from a 2006 E53 X5. Second attachment is from a 2010 E70 X5.

With all the battery problems I now know why BMW omitted the voltage gauge off the instrument cluster! :dunno:

Verizon is CDMA and BMW uses GSM in the X5...

Craig

To get back OT, I completely agree. this is the very first vehicle I have ever had with no battery indicator. :yikes: But, as with all these little shortcomings, enthusiasts (can anyone say Penguin?) find creative solutions!!!:rofl:

Let's move any further BMW Assist GSM vs CDMA discussion to a thread dedicated to that topic.

Funf Dreisig

No temp gauge either. My first car to not have one, but I bet it has an idiot light somewhere...

Craig

You were so lucky waiting for parts. The engineers in NJ and the dealer have no idea what the "parasitic draw" is caused by. Lots of tests. Each takes about a day.

I do wish there was a temp gauge and voltmeter also. You are to trust the sophisticated computers but from my experience they have not told them anything yet and could even be the problem.

I had an air conditioner glitch that took two years to fix as for the first year they said it was operator error. Unless it is in your little FOB it never happened and you are not educated in the vehicles operation. I ended up telling my SA how some of the controls worked as I had read so much about them. That also was a NJ and the factory joint venture to fix.

Monday is 30 days in the shop less 3 days I had it before it was going belly up again on the battery. I would think those who have not has the Battery drain when parked control message may be safe but even mine has had periods it seemed OK but if anything it seems to be getting worse now.

If you want something unobtrusive, I have the signal dynamics single LED voltage warning installed on one of my motorcycles. With just a single LED to mount/locate, it should not be too hard to wire to a switched power lead and get a rough idea of how the battery/charging system is doing.

Motorcycle Battery Gauges & Chargers

Turn Signal Module

Honestly I'm surprised that there is no way to access such information from the cars own diagnostics.

Thanks P, was more just complimenting you for so many thoughtful and well researched forum contributions. You have a patient, helpful and contributory attitude and I found an opportunity to say so. I am not really worried about my battery. I really enjoy driving my X5 (so much more than the G, which was fun but horribly uncomfortable after more than 30 minutes). Finding an excuse to drive 20 or 30 miles every 2 weeks (as SA recommended) should be no problem even tho I have zero commute. And, I am about to order the ES5000 Booster Pack you recommended so I should be in good shape. Thanks again! BTW, you may recall, mine is leased so I am super hesitant to add anything electronic and risk dealer claiming "driver error". The sales experience was trying (to say the least) but I am hoping for a positive relationship with the service department (starting with following their recommendations - which, so far, has been easy).

As previously stated, I just continue to be surprised by the long (and growing) list of little issues that require extra attention {not to swing back off topic but I DID program Assist into my VZW CDMA phone :bustingup )

Purely a BMW decision to not make this available. The OBD-II buss has voltage information on it and could easily be displayed if BMW choose to.

But I'll tell you why they probably do not with a little story.

Many years ago I was a product planner for a couple of years at a tractor manufacturer. Now, tractors have something called a Power Takeoff (PTO) which runs at a nominal speed of either 540 RPM or 1,000 RPM. One of our competitors decided to go electronic and, while they were at it, put an electronic digital PTO speed measurement in the instrument panel. Well, all of a sudden the dealers were getting complaints that their "540" PTO was running at 537, 546, 533, etc. Well, of course they always were only approximately 540, and it didn't affect performance at all if it was off a bit, but now that they had the precise data, some owners were complaining and hassling the dealer with an unreasonable expectation -- "It's a 540 PTO and it damn well should run at 540!" They soon removed the digital PTO speed measurement from the instrument panel.

Now, I have monitored the voltage on my X5 during the first 6,000 miles and have noticed that the voltage varies from about a maximum of 14.8 volts, to a minimum of 13.8 volts, while running. It seems to have to do with the state of battery charge and temperature, with cold temperatures providing higher voltage, and the lower voltages showing-up after a couple of hours or cruising at interstate speed. I am not 100% sure about the temperature dependency; however, I have seen a rough correlation and such behavior would make sense. I expect that this is normal operation and that the lower voltage happens when the system senses the battery is completely charged "to the top."

But... I also expect that a few non-technical people who owned a BMW would be badgering the dealer if they saw the voltage going from 13.9 to 14.8 without obvious rhyme or reason (to them).

So I suspect the product planners, or their equivalents, at BMW decided to avoid the problem by simply hiding the voltage data, and only having the vehicle inform you if it sees a problem.

Well, at least that's my guess.

Great thread and info posts! As someone with the electrical/electronic "knowledge" of only being able to change out/charge a battery and plug in a cord,
I am reading closely, but it is a struggle.

Penquin's post above on monitoring voltage is apt: my Vette has a "volt gauge" dial and I can also put up the numerical readout in its very complete digital
readout section of the dashboard; my "volts" read as low as 12.9 to 14.8 ish, depending on start up, cruise, did I have the Tender on it, etc. I view it occasionally,
scrolling through all the "readouts" the Vette dash provides, but I don't give it much thought and it is not really a concern to my mind.

So, I agree on what a gauge or readout would really "offer" for the electrical non-intelligentsia, of which I am a member.
Great Thread!
BR, mD

Nice story P. But, as one mechanoignorant, I certainly would not worry about battery power within a reasonable range. More importantly, I would rather see a lower power condition on a built in gauge than wait for the iDrive or idiot light to tell me it is too late to do anything about (worse yet, get in and no start). But, as with everything: it is what it is and we all still like the vehicle enough to drop the $$ and spend time here chatting!

That said, if anyone wants to save a couple bucks (not much) on the ES5000 Battery booster Pack, look here: http://www.nationaltoolwarehouse.com...qx/product.htm
$125.94 + 9.99 flat rate ship to home (less to a business) and the flat rate applies up to 60 lbs and $400 (over $400 and under 60 lbs ships free).

In fact, they have a variety of different units: http://www.nationaltoolwarehouse.com...x/category.htm
and http://www.nationaltoolwarehouse.com...x/category.htm

I've been wondering how your voltage monitoring has been going. :thumbup:

Is it possible that the higher voltages in cold temps have something to do with recharging the battery after cranking over a cold diesel?

Can you confirm that the 35d charging system does NOT exhibit the voltage swings that one would expect if the charging system primarily charges during braking, idling etc and normally switches off during acceleration, etc. (AKA regenerative braking)?

T.I.A. - Funf Dreisig

I have not noticed that on my graphs, but it only samples the voltage every 5 seconds for recording, so it could possibly slip by. I have noticed an odd blip downward in the voltage every once in a while; however, it may just be a quirk of the OBD-II data buss or something.

The next time I go for a longer drive, I'll plug my realtime voltmeter in and monitor the voltage while braking and such.

I haven't been driving the X5 much since I don't want to get snow/salt/slush all over it while it is so new, and I've still got the old reliable 1992 Ford Explorer. I was hoping to get to 200,000 miles on the Explorer, but I've got about 2,000 miles to go and I don't think I want to take any long distances any more as it is rusting so bad bits and pieces are starting to fall off (I had to replace the brake lines as they had rusted through.) And the tires are just about bald. If I was thinking, I probably could have gotten a set of wheels and used tires pretty cheap when they were crushing old Explorers as part of cash for clunkers last year!

Take a look at the 4th listed failure. ?
SIB 611809

I bought a new '08 335i coupe two years ago. It has NAV, comfort access, no aftermarket anything.

SAME PROBLEM. I would get a low battery warning when trying to start the car. Occasionally when starting the car it would not respond when pushing the start button and there would be a warning signal that looked like a yellow lift indicating the car needed to be checked. The clock would also reset.

I just read this thread since I'm looking into an '11 X5. I almost laughed out loud as I told my wife about this thread, since this is exactly what I have experienced. I took my car to the dealer and they kept the car overnight for diagnostics, told me basically nothing wrong but "I don't drive it enough." This is the third car in my garage and I take it out about twice a week for a 10 mile drive, and a 200 mile drive every 2 weeks. Funny thing is I alternate cars and my Lexus RX and VW GTI don't have this problem even though they are driven the same amount. So I bought a battery tender and charge the BMW once every Wednesday. I'm thinking BMWs look and drive great but...

This is making me have serious thoughts about buying another BMW. I thought my 335i was just an oddball. Apparently not.

Thanks again for posting these SIBs.

So it appears that the BMW model E70-X5 computer is like all other computers. Occasionally they need to be reminded who controls the power cord :nanana:

So has anyone found the hidden Ctrl-Alt-Del button yet ?:rolleyes:

Funf Dreisg

Buy Back Trade Assist
 

In my case the X5 is still in the shop. NJ is running more tests and can not figure what is wrong. BMWNA will let me know in 3-5 days if they will do a buy back, trade assist. However I have had other issues besides this drain. All have taken years to sort out.

Bottom line there is an issue in at least some X5s that is chronic (3 batteries) and they do not know what it is. You can battery tend your battery and carry a reserve charger and get by but we do not do that in our 7 year old Honda Accord which runs like a top so we keep it. Why should I do it in an much newer SUV I paid $65,000 for?

Last time my SUV died by the way there was no high battery drain while park warnings the days or weeks before. Just a completely dead battery and auto. The battery was new last June.

I however would take a 335XI especially the new F10 or even a 550XI that I hear about. I would not take any thing made in SC. Sorry but I would not.

Happy to help. :thumbup:

I've being a victim of this excessive battery discharge issues since I pretty much got the car back in March 2010. My cars being into the dealership multiple times for this issue.

BMW keep's coming back to the same answer for me at least .... my driver profile. Admittedly, I do drive quite a few short distances in the city during the work week, but these are mixed with much longer trips at the weekend. 100+ miles.

Either way though, my car did not log any control module wake up errors ... and in any case they updated the vehicle software to the very latest configuration (per Jan 2010), but I've still seen the battery/clock reset issue. I don't have any aftermarket electrical equipment connected to the car, and I made a habit of removing any iPhone/iPod that might be charging from the car.

I think one day, the battery was so low, although the car did start, it caused all sorts of fun and games for the vehicles electronics for 1/2 hour or so of driving. The iDrive was going nuts !

Not sure what more to do at this point. Fortunately its never got to the point where the car has failed to start ... but it doesn't exactly inspire much confidence ... after all, you may find that if you leave the car for a extended period of time ... you might come back to a completely discharged car ! SUX!

Ummm... all 4 days? :stickpoke

Seriously when did you get your X5?

Funf Dreisig

hahaha.

Sorry March 2009.

Yep, you are correct.

MODEL-CDMA (VERIZON WIRELESS)
E60, E61 (5 Series) from SOP to 3/08
E63, E64 (6 Series) from SOP to 3/08
E65, E66 (7 Series) from 3/05 production
E70 (X5) vehicles equipped with ZPP (Premium Package) or SA639 (BMW Assist) from SOP to 4/08
E71 (X6) vehicles equipped with ZPP (Premium Package) or SA639 (BMW Assist) from SOP to 4/08
E82, E88 (1 Series) vehicles equipped with ZPP (Premium Package) or SA639 (BMW Assist) from SOP to 3/08
E90, E91, E92, E93 (3 Series) vehicles equipped with ZPP (Premium Package) or SA639 (BMW Assist) from SOP to 3/08

MODEL-GSM (AT&T WIRELESS)
E60, E61 (5 Series) from 3/08
E63, E64 (6 Series) from 3/08
E70 (X5) vehicles equipped with ZPP (Premium Package) or SA639 (BMW Assist) from 4/08
E71 (X6) vehicles equipped with ZPP (Premium Package) or SA639 (BMW Assist) from 4/08
E82, E88 (1 Series) vehicles equipped with ZPP (Premium Package) or SA639 (BMW Assist) from 3/08
E90, E91, E92, E93 (3 Series) vehicles equipped with ZPP (Premium Package) or SA639 (BMW Assist) from 3/08

Meister,
Trying to understand your point. Both these lists are the same. THe X5 is not transmitting and receiving Assist/SOS on both CDMA and GSM simultaneously. So far, beyond my dealer, all points to GSM exclusively. Certainly the BT can handle either but that has nothing to do with the Assist/SOS (vehicle's internal phone). Please clarify your point and share your source. Thanks.

Read the lists more carefully. The CDMA listings are from SOP to some date and the GSM listings are from that date forward. For example, E70s built before 4/08 use CDMA and those built after 4/08 use GSM.

Funf Dreisig

RedRockin - I was replying to your earlier post and backing up what you said. I cut that info out of a BMW SIB. You are not reading it correctly; see FunfDreisig's note.

Thanks guys. My bad. Saw the SOP as the only difference. I am not afraid to admit when I do not know something and here it is! Didn't know "SOP"! :)

Battery Drain
 

A couple of things. My X5 4.8 is still in the shop since Feb 8th for a parasitic battery drain. It has nothing to do with drive time or Bluetooth or anything else. They do not know what it is and so far as a result can not fix it.

They do not have a good opinion of forums or people that post on them. They know just enough to be dangerous but do not know enough to offer anything really.
This is from the shop foreman who with BMWNA can not figure the issue with my SUV.

In my case I ran out of SIBs to send. The SUV is still there and BMW refused any trade assist help so it is the final option.

Bottom line if you are killing batteries and your auto is dying it does not mean you are doing anything wrong.

I love statements like these. God forbid the customer educate themselves a little bit in order to better understand the problem. I assume that when they go so a doctor they also walk in completely stupid and blind as well. I cannot even begin to count how many times over the years I've told a BMW dealer they are flat out 100% completely wrong about something

Unlike the dealer, people on this board are trying to understand the problem and suggest a fix without having touched or even seen the actual car. If they are so brilliant then tell them to fix the damn car, otherwise go f-off with their stupid opinions.

OT:
I haven't been near a dlr for "service" since the oe warranty/1 yr extended maintenance ran out in '06, but every BMW SA I ever dealt with,
said/felt the same.

This was back in the RoadToad Days, ('01, on), and the amount of serious azz X tech & help info wasn't common on forums, yet.
But, even then there was enough good info from knowledgeable posters that allowed for us to offer suggestions, when all else failed.
I was always met with disdain, like I was getting this "mis-information" from a comic book...

I suspect for many SAs, it's a freakin job, and many probably punch out, go home, and seldom peruse these kinds of very informative forums.
And, they are chained to the corporate fix-it, company line, imo...

emcman, Good Luck with your parasitic drain fix; I smell a buyback or, a Lemon Law deal.
GL, mD

Friday Update
 

Actually the BMW NA customer miss service rep said yesterday that I do not qualify. This was in the same breath as telling me they were still working on the issue for 5 weeks now and can not track it down. This is with the entire BMW brain trust working on it not just the dealer.

I do as of today have an attorney on it. I really do not get the "we know it is a problem but it is your problem attitude" Oh well we shall see.

Have they at least provided a loaner?

Craig

loaner
 

In January when it was in repair I had a 325 and 135I. In the last 5 weeks while it is still there 2 different 5 series as I did have the X5 for three days after it was "fixed" before it started to error code again. Actually in 2010 I have been in loaners FAR more than my auto. I am OK with the 5 but come on. It is not even like they are waiting for a part. They just do not know what to do.

They were waiting on parts for mine for months. Your car sounds worse than mine and my experience with BMWNA was terrible.

Keep us posted,

Craig

Sadly, it seems BMW battery issues are not isolated to the X5 and X6. Today, our 2010 M6, upon startup gave that dread....BING sound! Triangle warning light on the dashboard. Using iDrive, Settings, Vehicle Info...cars states HIGH BATTERY DRAIN.

We have a BMW trickle charger for our BMW K motorcycle...but it won't work on the car (they used to work on cars, as well as bikes).

I guess tomorrow, I will either be at the parts Dept or the Service Dept...or both!

Sucks, because this car gets driven 3-5 times a week, for about 60 miles each trip!!

I think you're right. Given that BMW now offers (in Europe for now) a battery charger "retrofit" optional accessory, they clearly know their cars are eating batteries. See attachments on post # 1:

http://www.xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-foru...w-one-fyi.html

Trade Assist
 

Mine is heading for a trade assist it appears though I had to write a letter to the director of sales in Germany to get a reaction but it was a stong one. He happen to be working late on a Friday eve by the way. I went with him as he is English and I did not have to trust the
translation by Bing of my letter.

Last Update
 

Can't wait for the future owner to start a new thread on this board when his problems start!

I just had my alternator replaced in a effort to fix the battery discharge issue. Not holding my breath ... But we'll see!

Mines a 2009 x5 35d ... Not that the engine matters in this case.

I've owned my car since Dec 2007, bought new.

Had no problems at all until last week when my wife went to start the car and the battery was beyond flat....no sign of life at all. Called out BMW Emergency Service who got the car started and said it sometimes happens that the car doesn't shut down properly. Anyway, we took the car for a good two hour drive to get some charge back in the battery and next day the warning about excess battery drain came up and the car really struggled to start.

The X5 went into my local dealer today, they've warned me it may take up to a week to find out what's wrong with it. Last X5 they had in with this issue took that long.

I will post more when I know it. In the meantime we will use our trusty VW Golf which despite the fact it's only done 2000 miles in 2 years and only gets used on short journeys has no problems with its battery at all!

I can respect that position -- if THEY can figure it out and fix it without a lot of "false" fixes.


If not...

Yeah this kind of thing seems to be becoming the norm. A friend of mine just bought a new 328i xDrive and on the window sticker one of the listed features is:

"Stronger electricity supply Included"


I'm amazed it wasn't an option that he was charged for!

Well, on 2/24/10 my 2008 4.8 died for the first time (the computer told on me, yes I opened the doors too many times without starting the car over that weekend...:rolleyes:) and a full charge and i was up and running, till last week. I went away for a three day trip, left the car at the airport and all was fine when i returned....till i had to move the car that night...battery was weak starting it...then the next morning....dead...took over an hour for the car to start with jumpers from another car it was sooooo dead...anyway, I blew off all the warning lights and figured, let it blow up or whatever, after 20 minutes thay all went away...drove 340 miles monday and then again yesterday, so well see...think i'd better buy a portable booster for this next business trip..five days away is sure to make the car mad and not want to start.

Other than this issue, I love my SAV, but really, $75k to worry about leaving it for three days...c'mon!

That's why I got rid of mine. Two dealers and BMWNA said I need to use a battery tender every night. Total BS for a modern vehicle. No battery problems with my new Lexus GX 460 Premium.

Craig

I love my X5 3.5D so far after one week and the price of zero was great. I even got $1000 in options thrown in for free. I did get a battery tender also free.

Now I see there is a sales hold by Lexus on the 460 due to slow stability control which is a roll over risk.

You mean this car? Hmmm...

Consumer Reports isn't exactly TUV, and if it can't pass their test then... let's just say that trading in a Suzuki Samarai isn't really considered an upgrade.

http://www.xoutpost.com/off-topic/lo...60-unsafe.html

Oh .. but it gets much worse

The Associated Press: Toyota to temporarily halt sales of Lexus GX 460

Dude,

Looks like Toyota stopped selling your Lexus.

BBC News - Toyota suspends US sales of Lexus GX 460

Be safe, and don't roll over.

I know there are some terrible issues with battery drain on some X5 including my old one. Mine is still at the dealer and has been since Feb 8th but now it is their car. In three years it went through three batteries and died twice without notice. In my case the issue is not consistent so an attempted repair needs two weeks testing to see if it took. I know there is no clear answer and the BMW people in NJ were also involved. It took lots of pushing and legal threats but when BMW did the right thing they really did it right and I have a 10 3.5D at no cost. My 07 4.7 had under 16,000 miles. I bashed them when they needed bashing and yes I had to write a VP in Germany but boy the 10 3.5D seems like a great SAV.

I test drove a Lexus sedan and found it not to my liking. The SUV also seems too narrow and tall but to each their own.

I get get a new battery tender just to be on the safe side.

Interesting reading on a potential cause to all this mess. SIB 121709

"...
Cause:
Water inside the electronics box could result in damage to the DME/DDE module and wiring plug-in contacts.
...
Repair measures:
1. Rewrap the wiring harness sheathing using adhesive tape, up and over the grommet and back, in both directions so it overlaps. Then repeat the process, using fabric tape, securing the end of the fabric nearest the inner fender housing (2) with a wire tie.
2. Wipe dry the electronics box; removal or replacement is not necessary.
3. If the seal in the lid is damaged, replace it; otherwise, it can be reused.
4. If there is evidence of moisture or oxidation on the plug-in contacts, they must be cleaned or replaced.
5. If necessary, create a TC case for DME/DDE replacement authorization.
6. Seat the harness grommets back into the electronics box; carefully fit the electronics box lid; secure the three clips; and close the slide lock...."

OR

Quit obsessively washing your X5 and only take it out of the garage on bright sunny days :nanana: :rolleyes:

Funf Dreisig

Not to worry. The orcs & fairies at Funf Dreisig AG are working slavishly to develop a solution for the excessive battery discharge problem that will allow our favorite customers to avoid dealing with insensitive BMW dealer tech departments that frequently just tell them to spend more quality time with their X5.

This must have X5 accessory will be in full compliance with SIB 12 17 09 which states that "Water inside the electronics box could result in damage to the DME/DDE module and wiring plug-in contacts. ". So the next time you find yourself unexpectedly caught in a shower, away from the dry comfort of your X5's garage, you can simply deploy this new accessory to shield your X5's DME/DDE module from water. Other X5 owners will be so envious that they will flash and honk to tell you that 'you are the man' as you and your X5 sit by the side of the road all snug and dry in the Funf Dreisig AG Blowup Garage for Dummies*. :rolleyes:

Funf Dreisig AG

* also doubles as a party tent if you add enough beer (not included) :D

Yep, I know and Lexus is working on it. I only have 567 miles on my GX and I'm driving my Lexus LS 460 now that spring is here. If they don't get it sorted out, Lexus can buy it back. I can always buy another vehicle for the winter.

Thanks for your concerns,

Craig

And another Funf condom for the X...hopefully you can order them in complimentary colors so that they match or contrast the Comfort Access door handle condoms you have previously released..

Are you suggesting that the apparent similarity of the two solutions in some way indicates that the orcs are losing their creative thrust, err... edge :dunno: :rolleyes:

Funf Dreisg AG