35d Won't start in cold.
 

Went out to start my 35d this morning and it wouldn't start. It's been 2 days since I started it and the temps have been in the low 20's at night and high 20's during the day for a while. I thought BMW builds cars for colder climates?

In any case, here's what happened. Hit the start button and the little glow wire indicator came on for a second and then nothing. Dash was all on like normal. Then I tried again and I noticed the check engine light was on and stayed on. I waited for a minute or two to see if it would start. Nothing. Tried again and noticed an indicator flash for a second that showed a car on a lift. I went back into the house and came back out a little while later. This time I turned the headlight switch to "Off" instead of "Auto" so that the lights wouldn't be on. This time it started. When I checked the status it showed the car on the lift and said something to the effect of "Battery excessive drain". I lost my presets on the radio and the time. This happened even though the car eventually started without having to jump start it. I will call the dealership tomorrow and see what they say.

I just remembered something that happened the other day. When I was driving the car at night right after starting it, the climate control fan was going up and down when I gave it "diesel" and let off. Like it didn't have enough charging power to run everything. Remember the "old days"? I was running the fog-lights, heated seats on high and the steering wheel heater. I was thinking that this thing has tons of torque and shouldn't have any problem running the alternator. Maybe they put in an alternator that is too low on power?? Or has too large a pulley so that it runs too slow?

This should not even be an issue in this day and age and especially on an expensive high-quality vehicle.

I'm very disappointed in this vehicles lack of an adequate electrical charging system. I can't stand paying this much for a vehicle and having to wonder whether it will start when you need to go somewhere.

Isn't that a bit melodramatic?

CLearly something is wrong with your car- it isn't "lacking an adequate charging system".

Get it fixed.

Actually, after doing a fair bit or research today, this seems to be a problem with the 35d's. I have no idea how common this problem is, but there are many reports of 35d's not starting or even breaking down while driving due to electrical problems. All of the ones I read about today were related to low battery voltage. There are even some on this site. I hope it is something that can be fixed and doesn't recur. I need a reliable vehicle.

However, I was told by my dealer before (when I had a problem starting it in the fall) that I should hook it up to a small charger during colder weather. I shouldn't have to do that. I stand by my opinion, I think there is a lack of an adequate charging/battery system at this point.

Links to "many reports"?

Here are a few from this site;

http://www.xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-foru...tart-wont.html

http://www.xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-foru...ttery-35d.html

http://www.xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-foru...same-time.html

Another one I read earlier;

x5 deisel, battery drain; TOW, left me sit in the - bimmerfest - BMW Forums

The interesting thing about this one on re-read is the part about the glow-plug or intake grid heater (I don't know how the BMW cold start works exactly) cycling every time you open the door. I often get files in and out of my car when it is parked. I have heard that loud buzzing sound under the hood when I open the door, I just thought it was the fuel pump pressurizing or something like that. If it's the heating of the glow plugs every time I open the door and the car sits over the weekend and the weather is as cold as it is, that could really run the battery down. Maybe it needs a larger battery or two batteries. Also, I make frequent small trips. For example, I have something a little less than 5K miles on it since early last spring.

If you haven't talked to your dealer you should. This is what is wrong with the Internet, people only post issues and then jump top the conclusion that problems are happening everywhere.

I am in Minnesota and we are just ending a very nasty stretch of cold weather (many nights below zero, up to -17). No issues what so ever with the X5 35d. It has started and run like a champ.

Thanks for posting your issue with references to what you have previously read. Let us know what comes of it and perhaps others will share their experience and/or knowledge of the same to further our understanding.

I just added this to the thread quoted above...

Since posting this, it has gotten cold enough to see the glow plug light come on in cold weather. I now think this 'speculation' about the glow plugs coming on every time the driver's door is opened is probably not correct.

However, at least on a 35d, there IS a significant drop in voltage every time the driver's door is opened. I don't profess to know what causes this voltage drop; but you can prove that it happens, with a little time and an inexpensive volt meter. Just hook the voltmeter up to the "jumper points" under the hood then close the driver's door. Wait for the voltage to return to 'normal'. Then open the driver's door again.

Funf Dreisig

That's why both dealers and BMWNA told me to use a trickle charger or battery tender. If you want to start a class action suit, I would like BMW to buy back my vehicle for this and a parts availability problem. I drove around for 3 months with a check engine light waiting on a part. I also had the heated fuel filter go bad and waited 5 weeks. Both times, I had to get BMWNA involved in order to receive parts for my vehicle. I've asked them to buy my vehicle and they declined. I'm waiting on a compensation check from BMWNA right now. It only amounts to a small amount of money. I don't consider it a fair amount of compensation. BMWNA says I have to drive my car daily at highway speeds in order to keep my battery charged. I find this unacceptable for a modern vehicle. Please let us know what they tell you. I already had someone tell me on the Lexus board they saw my posts and decided to purchase a new Lexus GX 460. They leave their vehicle at the airport for ten days at a time and were worried about not being able to start the X5d when they returned. If I had known I had to keep my car on a battery charger every night, I wouldn't have purchased this vehicle.

Craig

Are most of these complaints limited to the diesel for what all of us have read?

DO NOT CASH YOUR CHECK! If you truly hold out any hope of having BMW buy back your vehicle, DO NOT CASH ANY CHECK they give you.

That can be considered, in many states, to be payment in full for your damages. The act of cashing the check can act as legal acceptance and agreement of BMWs payment to you.

Contact an attorney who specializes in Lemon Law cases. There are quite a few, who specialize in this area of the law. Class Action suits of this kind go no where and will take years. BMW has deep pockets and excellent attorneys of their own. Trust me, if there's any case here, it's already being investigated by some law firm, somewhere.

If you truly want BMW to take back your vehicle, your only realistic option is to contact an attorney and go through the lemon law process that is allowed within your state.

But, once again, you'll be doing BMW a massive favor by cashing that check and muddying your legal options. It will not absolutely preclude you from any future damages, but there's a likelihood that it could, so why take the chance in this situation?

Since you're not an attorney, and you don't know the laws in your state that govern the acceptance of such funds, do not cash any funds from BMW until you've received confirmation from an attorney that doing so will not preclude you from collecting future compensation.

My bet is that any attorney you speak to is going to recommend that you not cash any funds from BMW, if you have a desire to take future action.

But, as someone who knows a whole hell of a lot about batteries, and is involved in green-energy startups that specifically with battery technology and storage, I will tell you this: BMW is incorrect when they tell you that you must drive your vehicle daily, in order for the battery to remain charged.

If your battery is exposed to very low temperatures (below 30-degrees), for days at a time, and you're only performing stop and go driving, buy a battery tender. This would be required for all vehicles do to the way in which alternators switch on and off at specific RPMS (explanations of which should be confined to a different thread).

Battery tenders are not a big deal and they cost $30.00. You'd need to use one, depending on your driving habits, if you owned a Honda Civic. Temperature Extremes and Stop and Go Driving = Chaos on batteries, regardless of who manufactures them.

Do some research on alternators, the rpm ranges at which they're active, and the way in which batteries are charged. This is a problem that is not all that uncommon.

No. If you dig back in this (and the bimmerfest) forum you will find quite a few threads/posts about low/dead battery issues even before the 35d was being sold. Recently the posts are 35d centric. But of course, both forums have become 35d centric lately :)

From what I've read online, I believe the low/dead battery issue is E70 wide. particularly for those E70s that are driven infrequently and/or for mostly short trip. But low/dead battery issue MAY be exacerbated on the 35d because of higher loads ...
1 - diesels usually require more ummph to crank,
2 - the 35d DEF/SCR system includes heaters, pumps, etc. not on the gas engines. Of course if the heaters/pumps only functioned while the engine was running, it would be no big deal.

For example, what exactly causes the fairly significant voltage drop every time you open the driver door of a 35d? And what is all that commotion under the hood AFTER you turn off a 35d engine? Are these significant loads? :dunno:

Funf Dreisig

I have no doubt that you know a lot about batteries and charging systems, in general.

But the question here is, how much do you know about the E70 battery/charging system, and more importantly, the loads that an E70 places on the battery when it is not running, in particular?

FWIW ordinarily, I would have been posting big "I agree"s after your recent comments. But the more I've read about the E70 battery/charging issues, the more I think the E70 does not have a standard auto electrical system. And standard advice does NOT always apply.

Funf Dreisig

BTW battery tenders ARE a big deal on E7Os since the 12v outlets are switched off when the engine is not running. So you have to open the hood and clip the tender on the jumper posts.

I can't speak to a Honda Civic, but I have a Ford Explorer that I drive 1 mile to and from the coffee shop every morning all Winter long and it has never had a battery drain problem.

Winter is a relative term. We're looking for specific temps. the vehicle is stored and operated in, is the vehicle stored indoors, etc.? Do you drive it each day?

Need to compare apples to apples.

A vehicle that needs to be driven each day to maintain adequate battery charge is defection, point blank.

A) There's a design flaw in the battery.
B) You have a defective battery.
C) You have a defective charging system (bad alternator, etc.).
D) There is a design flaw in the charging system of the X5 35d
E) There is a draw on the battery when the vehicle is parked and unattended that is significant enough to discharge the battery within an unreasonable time period.

Either way, there's no reason a "PROPERLY" managed battery should be falling prey to discharge.

There are a few other possibilities.
1) The battery is placed to close to the engine, and is being damaged by heat.
2) The car is being stored outside in temperatures that are falling below the operational range of the installed battery. Batteries like tepid temperatures. They react poorly to extreme cold and extreme heat. There's little that can be done to overcome this, unless you're charging the battery. Without getting technical, trickle charging the battery using a device such as a "battery tender" will heat the battery and keep it at a proper operational temperature.

One very elementary way to think of a battery, which others may have a better description for, is to think of the internals of a battery as a pot of boiling water. The rolling boil will only sustain for so long after the battery is removed from a heat source. That boiling point, or energetic activity, must be maintained and unfortunately is extraordinarily sensitive to heat fluctuations. Heat and cold are the number one killers of batteries.

In Arizona it's heat. In Ohio it's cold. So, I have no idea what's going on with your particular 35d. I do know, that the battery, if properly designed, should be capable of holding its charge for a minimum of 10-days, if stored in proper temperatures.

I'm leaving my 35d for the first time, garaged, in 40-degree temperatures for about 5-days. I fully expect it to start.

If I were leaving it for 5-days in 10-degree or -10-degree temperatures, I would not expect it to start whatsoever. I would absolutely recommend a battery tender in this case.

So, it would be helpful moving forward in this thread, if you could describe the following:

-Are you storing your vehicle inside or outside. If inside what temp. is your garage? If outside what is the ambient temperature?

-How quickly is your battery discharging, if you've not driven your vehicle?

-What is your dealer's response?

Recommending that you must drive your vehicle on the freeway daily is absurd, to put it mildly. That is ridiculous and if that's truly the case, and it's not repairable, BMW is going to be facing a situation in which they'll be recalling every 35d sold.

So far, that's not the case, and this is certainly not "entirely" a widespread issue. So, let's see if we can isolate some variables and diagnose the issue.

Your service advisor sounds like a fool. Speak to his manager or contact BMWUSA.

In terms of the parts availability, this is pretty common with high-demand vehicles.

I bought a Nissan 350z in 2003, right when they came out, when people were paying $10k premiums for them. Parts were impossible to come by for the first year. There was an extreme demand for that car. This is relatively common, and while it's a pain, it won't be a long-term issue. They'll catch up within the next 12-months and build up a good supply chain.

It's quite obvious that neither BMW nor Audi, nor Mercedes envisioned that their Blue Tech products would be so incredibly popular.

Here to help, so any additional info would be helpful, in terms of the conditions under which your battery is discharging.

But, for full disclosure, I'm totally unaware of the electrical draw that the X5 takes from its battery during storage. Some say the vehicle performs some sort of diagnosis every 15 minutes, and then every hour. These seem to be rumors and I personally would love to see a BMW Tech Manual (the ones the engineers and techs use, not the ones you can buy off the shelf), in order to confirm this.

I talked to my Service Advisor this afternoon. She told me that BMW recommends that I use a battery tender if I'm not going to drive my X5 for a few days. I asked her if they would give me one. She told me I would have to purchase one from their parts department. The only other suggestion that she made was that they would check to see if I had some kind of a drain on my system the next time it is in for service. Of course, if it "starts happening more often, bring it in before your next service".

For those that have said that any kind of vehicle left for a while needs a battery tender, I disagree. I think it's simply a matter of not having a large enough storage capacity. Most Diesels that I know of have two batteries. As a matter of fact, the vehicle I drove the other day when this one wouldn't start has been sitting since at least August without being started one single time. It's an Army surplus 1984 Chevrolet K5 Blazer. Diesel powered also. It started after the "wait to start light" was on or about a full minute (using tons of juice for the glow plugs). Then it just started right up, ran rough for a few minutes and took me on my way.

Sorry to hear of all these battery problems with the X5s. I will say this: it's not necessarily just BMWs that go through batteries. My friend's 2004 Acura TL is on its 3rd battery. Both our Bimmers are still on their first.

If an X5 needs a battery tender after a few days of sitting, something is wrong. My Vette sits for weeks during the winter without a battery tender and starts like a champ every time.

This is where 'too many electronics' comes to mind. With all these modules, all it takes is 1 not to fall asleep when its suppose to... welcome, high battery drain!

I take it no one has invested $150 in the purchase of an Optima battery?

Optima 12 Volt Performance Battery - Sealed Batteries by Optima

I doubt the X5 is anyone's first vehicle. We all know BMW is going to drag their feet on this issue.

Lots of vehicles have suffered from such issues. I remember my 1997 Jeep Wranger has a similar issue and went through multiple batteries (I owned two 1997 Wranglers a 4-cyl and a 6-cyl.).

If this happens to me, I'll just replace it with a "Yellow Top." It exceeds BMW's specs., hence there would be no warranty issue.

I agree with all: an X5 that discharges its battery after sitting for several days is suffering from an error.

It's entirely possible that BMW purchased a massive batch of bad batteries. Batteries are all rated, and there are tremendous variables between batteries. In fact, when it comes to high performance batteries, they're rated in terms of the time they take to discharge when a certain load is placed upon them.

There can be variances of 20% to 30%.

Battery tender requirements are fine, but having to do so, in a tepid climate is ridiculous.

Is anyone in California (Southern California), or Arizona having this issue?

I'm going away Thursday-Monday and my X5 35d will not be started. We'll see what happens.

BMW will certainly be getting an earful if my 35d doesn't start, and this thread is excellent evidence for all of us, so keep it going.

I drive it to and from the coffee shop M-F, which is less than one mile away. It sits on my driveway outside at whatever temperature the Chicago suburbs happens to be. (recently it's gotten below Zero overnight).

No battery problems and no charging needed. Recently I was out of town for 17 days and the Explorer sat unused. Started like a charm upon my return (as did the 2005 Ford Focus with the OEM battery).

As the 17 day trip was in the X5, I cannot speak to it regarding sitting unstarted for days in the cold. But, as an aside regarding the other topic of simple cold weather starting, it took right off at 5 degrees F one morning after sitting all night in the hotel parking lot.

)Seriously now, you think it is normal for a vehicle sitting unused in 10 degree temperatures to not start after five days of inactivity?

If that were the case, there would be thousands of cars not starting at the O'Hare airport parking each week in the Winter, and just imagine the Minneapolis airport parking lot.

If you really want, I can do the calculation of the specified maximum milliamp load for a locked X5 (40 milliamps after 60-70 minutes with TCU, 30 minutes without TCU) vs. the 90 Amp-Hour rating of the battery, adjusted for a temperature of 10 degrees and the normal self-discharge of an AGM battery over five days (1-3% per month).

:iagree:...I parked in outside lots at EWR/LGA/JFK for 25+ years, with cheapazz "company cars", '74 to 2001. Sometimes for 2+ weeks at a time.

Admittedly none of those metro NY airports are in the Tundra, but I never needed a jump, for any of my crappy company cars, over all that time.

Back at the BatteryBoosterRanch, I suspect some owners have more starting/charge holding problems than others; it may be anecdotal, it may be luck,
but the "system" in these cars is just so-so, for many, imo.
And, I use a BattTender on my X, and it's a slight PIA, but necessary...

:iagree: There's a problem with the car in a case like that.


Regarding Optima batteries: There are reports of leakage and failure with those batteries and they cost close to $200.

OEM batteries are usually more than sufficient for any make/model car.

+1

So. Is the really cute waitress off on the weekends? :nanana:

Funf Dreisig

Well, not exactly...

The Significant Other goes with me for coffee on the weekends, so we take the "good vehicle" (her term), the 2005 Ford Focus she uses as a daily driver.

The X5 was a replacement for the 1992 Explorer with 198,000 miles on it; however, since it still runs and the insurance is only $150 for six months, I decided to keep it around as a "coffee shop vehicle" until Winter is over, rather than run the X5 in salt slush. Unfortunately, the tires are almost bald, and the 4WD no longer works, so it makes for fun times if it's snowing.

But to be more direct in response to your question, the cute one is still there on the weekends; however, I pretend not to notice...

+2... I am in Toronto and just returned from a trip to Europe. My 35d was left in the garage for 37 days and started immediately (without any warning lights) when I returned. I have to say I was a bit worried about potential dead battery before my trip - after reading the various posts in this and other forums on this subject. The only thing I did before I left was to make sure I locked the doors properly (I read somewhere that the car continues to carry various electrical diagnosis if doors are not locked) and touch wood - started without any issue after 37 days.

My 2 cents !

That would be my story. And would stick to it bro' :D

Funf Dreisig

Yup. I have a 2004 Z4 as well, ans it sits outside with a car cover all Winter long from early December until Mid-March usually. I try to get a battery tender on it at least once during that period. It's started right up every Spring except for last year, when the battery was almost five years old. I figure five years is a reasonable life for a battery, so I replaced the battery with an Interstate that was a perfect fit.

What?! No Optima? ;)

I didn't see an Optima battery that would fit with more than the 90 AH of the BMW OEM. What model would you propose as an improvement over the BMW AGM battery?

Not to mention that the Optima weighs more.