Dead battery, a matter of time....
 

Well, I ve had a few of the dreaded "high Battery Discharge" warnings over the 20 months I've had this truck, but this morning got the full effect...just enough juice to light all the warning lights, turn on my stereo and headlights, but then when i tried to start it.... dead as Kelsey's nuts. Took about half an hour of charge from my wife's car to get her to roll over, then had a whole world of colors and failures flashing on my dash.

I was worreid she wouldn't start at all and the first thing I did was open the glovebox to get the manual out (brake/gear tool lives in my door pocket) as I was worried she'd have to be towed to the dealer (as was my neighbors E70).

Called the dealer (on hold for 20 minutes so I was pulling in as my SA picked up the phone)..we'll see what they say, sure I'll be scolded for not driving her enough!

Oddly enough, i also had a service notice pop up last week for brake fluid level (i know it's totally unrelated) so i guess at 18k miles I've worn the pads low enough to drop the leve, so they'll take core of it all at once...

So for now I'm in my HOT HOT HOT, Pontiac Vibe!!!! 28k miles and smells like a dirty old dog!

ask them if that Vibe has battery issues and if not, trade them out. ;)

That's why I plug mine into a battery tender plus every night.

Good luck,

Craig

Put in on charge over night or you will have the same thing in a few days time :-)

Unless something is drastically wrong, I suspect that putting it on a charger one night a week would probably suffice.

Is your X5 a 'hybrid' ??? :rofl:

I make sure I lock the door which seems to minimize this issue.

LOL! No, it's a diesel, but BMW and my local dealer say I need to plug it into a battery charger every night. I think I have the problem taken care of, my new Lexus GX 460 arrived at the dealer today. I'm waiting for the certificate or origin to show up, then I will pick up my new car and trade off my hybrid X5 diesel...

Craig

What I meant was give it one good full overnight charge, don't just rely on the 30 mins jump from the wife's car :thumbup:

Sorry, I wasn't responding specifically to your post, I was just making a comment in general about preventative measures for the "too many short trips" syndrome. If the battery is truly getting a cumulative current deficit due to short trips, eventually leading to a dead battery, I would start with once a week on a battery tender and only put it on more often if the battery discharge message popped-up again.

What you say is very true -- if a battery ever gets run-down, one should not depend on the vehicle system to fully-charge it back up. One should put it on a battery charger, as you say.

My '08 4.8i had it's fair share of battery issues (as did our Z8 Alpina). I just find it totally ridiculous, that with a car that costs ($50-100,000 for X5 models or $140,000 for the Alpina)...that BMW can look a customer in the face and say "put it on a charger" at night.

While we have had several Mercedes and Range Rovers that had their fair share of unique problems...NEVER once did we need to worry about battery chargers. Even my old 1983 300TD with 193,000 miles (that got driven maybe once a week to the Supermarket or Home Depot) never needed a battery charger.

Considering a great deal on a new X6 5.0i. Wondering if all these X5 "goodies" happen to the X6 as well!!

Well you're all right and wrong. Apparently the car told them I had opened the door too many times without starting the car this weekend!!!! So hmmm...Saturday I washed it, I guess opening the doors to vacuum the interior out was too much for it (I hope Phil has a charger in his place when he details these!).

Now, my keys stay far away (can't handle the car locking and unlocking a hundred times while i wash it (comfort access), and it's locked everywhere and every night (otherwise this would be someone posting about the POS car he stole having a dead battery!!!) cause I've read about this great event too many times on here not to keep it locked up.

They put it on a charger and flushed my brake fluid (2 years old now)....all is fine, no idiot charges for me this round, just a warning.

I agree with deutsch, I did not spend $75k to have to put my car on a charger every night, or at all. This car gets driven everyday and in the past two weeks has done more than it's share of long hauls (more than 100 miles each day at mixed speeds of highway and city).

My A8 had as much electro-wizardry as this truck, my Range Rover had almost as much, my Porsche sat for months at a time (I could never drive it in the rain, the undercarriage might have gotten dirty!!), and they NEVER let me down for battery issues.

I love my X5 and plan on putting my order in for an X5M in a few months. I have probably seen the High Battery discharge warning twice in the life of the vehicle (and not for at least six months) so we'll chalk this up to hopefully just one bad time.

While i realize the vehicle has SOOOOOO much electronic stuff in it, on average most people drive 12k-15k per year, so that's 32 to 41 miles per day (and according to BMW probably not enough for this truck) and to have a vehicle that requires you to have to put it on a battery tender is absurd. Fine, if it was a 66' GTO that never goes anywhere OK, or 599 that I will only drive on the sunniest of days, I guess, but my daily driver..no way....

rant over, fingers crossed...just too many people on this board with the same troubles not to think it's an inherent design issue.

:thumbup::thumbup:

Just as a humorous aside, a poster on B'Fest was told by his dlr that Airport "Interference" was killing his batt! :D
The BMW dlr "advisers" must be using a Magic 8 Ball for "answers"/excuses for the fairly common dead batt issue. :bustingup

Flat Battery Again!! - bimmerfest - BMW Forums

Lexus makes very comfortable cars with good technology, and their service is one of the tops in the industry... but you could've at least gotten a nicer looking SUV. ;)

But they weren't smart enough to put software in the computer to make braking over ride the throttle in case of a runaway. It would be a very easy software fix. BMW has had that since 2005 I believe.

Four people here died in a Lexus which went as fast as 120 mph before it crashed.

You won't ever catch me in a Lexus.

Chuck

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/article739808.ece

Penguin,

I know what to do but I can not be sure if I was in a Lexus with someone else driving that they would and I might not have time to give instructions.

In a BMW you would not even have to think if this happened as the software would react to the situation for you.

Chuck

My point is that all of these companies make mistakes, and it's silly to say you would not ride in a Lexus due to this recall, e.g., if you total the accidents and deaths, I suspect you have a better chance of being hit by lightening or by a vehicle while crossing the street, than injured due to the Toyota/Lexus throttle problem.

Someday BMW may have a similar problem. In the past couple of years, BMW Motorcycles have had leaking fuel lines, and the recent BMW MOA motorcycle club magazine had an article, with photos, of a new BMW motorcycle that caught file while being ridden and burnt to toast on the side of the road.

That said, I would never buy a Lexus, but not because of any safety issues or fear of riding in it. And I can understand why someone else might prefer a Lexus to an BMW.

P.S.

Thousands of BMW Motorcycles Recalled

OP: how often do you drive the car? And for how many miles at a time? Frequent, short commutes are hell on batteries.

You are correct, but my personal experience makes me sometimes wonder how, with all this technology, we seem to be going backwards in some areas of functionality. I have a 1992 Ford Explorer with 198,000 miles on it. I use it exclusively to drive one mile to a coffee shop every morning, M-F, and back. A round trip of 2 miles five days a week. I have been doing this all Winter long, and I have no battery problems whatsoever, even starting it when the temperature was a bit below zero.

I also spent $1,200 to get the comfort seats on my X5, and I find the bottom seat bolsters to be too narrow for my apparently big behind. So I went to adjust the bolsters, and found they were non-adjustable. Heck, my old Explorer has power adjustable sat bottom bolsters, making my 18 year old Ford seats more comfortable than BMW's latest and greatest $1,200 "top of the line" seats.

Looks like I'm going to have to buy a small foam cushion for the driver's seat for long trips.

Agree, but this was a one time thing. Not like the Toyota/Lexus deal going on right now. Also, this was a 1998 model so there has been plenty of time to see if this is more than a one time thing, which it does not appear to be. Also, I call BS on the story in general. Guy says he couldn't put the car in neutral because it was over-revving and redlining? :confused: So what? let the car over-rev and blow the engine if you don't have control. Also, I think the brakes would have easily over powered the 1.8 litre engine if he pushed them hard enough at the beginning of the situation. Who really knows why the pedal was stuck in the first place? Debris, possibly? He also said he couldn't turn the car off because it would have killed the power steering. Really? Was there not any stretch of road in 60 miles that was straight enough for him to turn the car off and muscle the steering to a safer stop that crashing and flipping over a round-a-bout going over 100 mph? This wreaks of poor decision making on the drivers part from start to finish so I have to call BS on some level. Cant rule out the sticking pedal wasn't his fault in some way. When 20+ 1998 318's have the same issue, I would be more concerned. Not to mention that he walked away uninjured from flipping over and sliding on his roof at 100 mph. Got to give BMW credit on that one.

Valid points, and perhaps a bad example on my part.

But, I think my point is still valid that (a) with the low frequency of the problem, compared to other risks we face on a daily basis, riding in a Lexus is not something to be avoided for fear of your Life, and (b) while it appears BMW has been smarter in this throttle area, it's quite possible BMW could have their own problem in some other safety area in the future. BMW certainly did with their Motorcycles recently.

Agreed. I rode in a Lexus SUV today. I did notice that the seats were much more confortable than my 4.4 with sport package (not that I care about that much).

BMW has and will continue to have it's issues for sure as well. Every car company will unless they keep making the same model over and over with the same old technology and finally perfect it.

I just come from the camp that thinks the Toyota gas pedals are another setback for a company who's quality has been declining for years now. This will hurt seeing as it is one of the main reason people buy them in the first place. They are more of a driving appliance than anything and can be easily substituted with other brands that are not having quality issues at the moment, IMO.

I have actually never been in a Lexus and don't intend to now. We all have to make our own choices. You are right the risk is low but the consequences are grave.

I will just ride in my X5 35D even though I might have a dead battery some day. I cannot remember having a car that did not have a dead battery at some time. Even then it was never more than a small inconvenience.

Chuck

Hey, as I said, I would never buy a Lexus, but if a friend had one, I'd be happy to ride with them.

But I must say that I haven't had a dead battery in a car for more than 25 years. I typically test my batteries' voltage every 6-12 months and routinely replace them every five years to avoid the inconvenience of a dead battery an an opportune time. I've taken that approach since I once had to replace a battery in the dark at night in Detroit, using a flashlight, in a windy snowstorm with the temperature around zero.

My 4.8 is my daily driver and my commute is about 18 miles each way during a normal week, with mixed speeds (30-40mph on most sections about 5 miles at 60+), but for the last two weeks I have been running closer to 75 miles each day with a 50/50 mix of local and highway.

I understand the basic issues at hand (I play a mechanic on TV, but in real life I sell yachts) but fall back on the issue that if you look at who's driving the average SAV/SUV and it's real world usage, I am not out of the norm (well, those who know me would probably argue with that) with my usage.

My father-in-law was just in town, and I gave his truck (Diesel GMC 2500 heavy duty) a quick clean up on saturaday as well, and when i popped the hood guess what I saw, two batteries and TWO alternators. Due to electrical loads and the "heavy duty" tag, the truck had two systems. Now, I look at that and say hmm...do you think BMW could have thought about all the loads being put on the electrical system (since even the glove box uses an electric switch for chirstssake) and thought about the fact that maybe a large number of these vehicles will be driven by the likes of me and my wife and NOT see huge amounts of daily travel time, and may have issues with keeping a charge on the battery??

I can only imagine if i lived up north (where my in-laws are from) and was running the rear defroster, heated seats and actually drove in conditions that prompted the intervention of ABS/DSC and other elctronically driven safety nets...perhaps I'd be forced to get a battery tender....

...but to be told I opened the doors too many times in a two hour peroid while i washed the car (so figure half the time they're shut as I don't actually wash the interior) after a week of above average highway commuting is just wrong.

FWIW - although my invoice says nothing about the battery charge, they did flush the brake fluid, yet forgot to reset the service indicator as it popped up again today!!

I had an issue with the battery as well. My battery was replaced by BMW with a newer, different battery. The details are in my thread:

http://www.xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-foru...same-time.html

No problems since.

Hope this helps.

I agree, I don't really care for the looks of the GX 460, but the RX is a women's car and the LX is too big and doesn't have HID headlights. This
will be my 6th Lexus and I've had good reliability and durability with the Lexus
vehicles I've owned. That's why I'm buying another. I can't say the same
for the X5. I do like the way it drives, but I can't put up with the reliability
and durability issues. Waiting on parts was another concern. I've never
had to wait more than a day or two for parts on any of my Lexus vehicles.
3 months was too long to wait for a part from BMW. The battery issues
are also unacceptable for a modern vehicle.

Craig

Of course, as we all know by now, Toyota (and Lexus) are having some major issues as well.

This from a story on the subject:

First to testify will be Rhonda Smith, of Tennessee, who is expected to describe the day in 2006 when she says her Lexus ES350, a Toyota vehicle, accelerated to 160 km/h unintentionally, did not respond to her attempts at braking and then decelerated suddenly on its own.


Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/money/story/2010/02/23/us-toyota-safety.html#ixzz0gNEZdbss

What in the world did you have to wait 3 months for? They could built you a whole new car in that time.

I replaced the battery on my e53 last week, but it was at least 3 years old (pre-owned). I have not had any battery issues with mine. The e70's may be different.

The e70 has a system where, once the battery is fully charged, the alternator only charges while coasting or braking. (I guess US e70s are the same)

My guess is the 'fully charged' point is set to early ?

I originally thought the US E70 charging system worked like that too. But others have posted that US E70's do NOT have this "efficient dynamics" feature.

Funf Dreisig

Arr yes, I think you mentioned that before. strange that they would not do that for U.S. cars as its only programming as I understand it.

I picked up a small voltage logger today but it hasn't got any W7 64bit drivers so i can't program it at the moment. Once I get them I am going to hang it on our e70 battery just to have a look at how the system works

I agree, I drove around for 3 months with a check engine light for an air temp sensor for the turbo chargers. Total BS! I waited another 5 weeks for a heated fuel filter. Both times I had to call BMWNA and raise hell.
If I hadn't called them, who knows when my parts would have shown up.
Unacceptable...

Craig

Not an excuse, but here's one possible explanation.

With the US Diesel being new, BMW probably did not expect any temperature sensors to be required, since temperature sensors are typically rather reliable and last a long time. From the postings I've seen, it's pretty clear the the temperature sensors were failing at a much greater rate than expected. This probably put them into a shortage position and left BMW with the choice of using the limited inventory to build and sell more vehicles, or to fix existing customers' vehicles promptly. I suspect they gave building and selling more vehicles priority.

In the meantime, either the vendor could not supply more sensors quickly for one reason or another, or BWM wanted a design or manufacturing change to fix whatever was causing them to fail so quickly. BMW would probably put a temperature sensor prone to failure in a new vehicle, if the alternative was to not manufacturer and sell the vehicle (knowing they probably would have to fix a lot of them under warranty later). But they might wait on replacing failed sensors in the already sold vehicles until the new, more reliable design sensor was available.

Yeah, I know doing something like that stinks, but having been in the industry a long time ago, I know how companies would not want to lose a vehicle sale because of not having a reliable temperature sensor.

Some people around here call their X5s 'trucks" but the GX460 really is a truck - separate-chassis construction, live axle at the back, low-range gearing. Great off road but pretty sloppy on road compared to the X. In Australia they put different engines in it (a 4.0-litre petrol six and a 3.0-litre four-cyl TD) and call it a Toyota LandCruiser Prado (150 Series). Not trying to put your new ride down as I'm sure you'll find it smooth and comfortable ... and hopefully 100% reliable. Good luck with it.

Thanks,

Craig

How prescient those comments on handling:

Consumer Reports Says Lexus GX 460 Is Unsafe - Wheels Blog - NYTimes.com

There's an on-ramp around here that is like that (107 onto LIE west)... you think it's a smooth 270-degree turn but all of a sudden it's sharper in the last third. I've said it a few times... in my other SUV and my dad's minivan, I have to brake because I feel like I'm about to flip over... with the X it is completely under control (even at slightly greater speed) - every time I take that turn I'm amazed at how it controls the roll. I feel no braking either...

When I drove the Toyota equivalent to the GX 460 the handling was so bad that I thought that one or more of the tyres were partially flat. I even stopped to have a look at them and then checked the pressure at the next service station. But everything was okay.

And my point of comparison is a E53 diesel with non-sport suspension, 17-inch wheels and all-terrain tyres, so it's hardy at the pointy end of X5 handling spectrum. (Just more practical as a good percentage of my driving is on rough, unsealed roads, farm tracks etc.

Removing my comment - was a duplicate...

So the inevitable happened.
 

Looks like my dad's X5 is joining the club. There's no good possible reason for user error in this case. He's been driving 60km (40mi) a day, half of it highway, to and from work the last 3 days. He did not leave any lights on by accident. But nonetheless, a flat battery.

This evening when he was about to leave work at 6pm, he tried to start the car and the electronics apparently went on a fritz then the car shut down completely. The key fob was stuck in the slot so I directed him to use the manual metal key to lock the car, go somewhere warm, and grab dinner.

He'd contacted Roadside Assist who cited a 90min wait time; 90min later, they said they didn't have a flat bed available, so the X5 has to stay in the car park overnight until tomorrow, when they will tow it to the dealer. We drove to pick him up at 9:30pm. (Why didn't they tell him the first time my dad called?) :thumbdown

This 7-month X5 really is a dud. Two restraint system faults within a month, creaks and abnormal wind whistle, a loose cruise control stalk, and now this.

Chances are all it will need is a jump to get it going, either from another car or a portable unit. Roadside assistance just carry the portable units around.

I got tired of waiting around for BMW assist. They are completely useless. Just carry a portable jump starter in the back of the car and jump leads.

So I had the same issue many times. Had the same argument I didn't drive the car enough. Finally got a new battery under warranty. Only time will tell.

Roadside Assist did show up (guess I didn't write clearly) and tried to jump the car to no avail. I guess they showed up with the wrong type of tow truck, hence the no-tow.

FWIW....
I guess it's an annual thing...my X has been at the dealer for three days now due to fbs (flat battery syndrome)..Two weeks ago it started acting up, so i pulled out the charger and topped off the battery...then it died in a parking lot a week later...

So...I asked them to fix the peeling door handle and steering wheel, blistering roof rack, align (just put third set of tires on it), and reset the service indicator...

When the SA checked about the indicator, he realized that although they show they did the brake fluid flush 8 months ago, the system does not show all the parts required so the SA is thinking the entire service was not done!!!

Anyway..hopefully today I'll get it back..been stuck in a Camry for the last three days and am tired of it!

Yup, got some cold weather and for the first time I got the Excessive Battery Discharge message, So I pur ir on a battery charger.

Yes, I did do some short trips, but you should be able to do 3 short trips of one-mile or less without getting a battery drain message. This is ridiculous. It's like I'm back in the 1950's when with generators, instead of alternators, you would discharge the battery at idle and short-trips would not charge the battery enough.

I'm beginning to think that it's not worth the hassle to own a BMW, and that the "Ultimate Driving Machine" for me is something that can be driven for three short trips in the Winter without battery drain messages popping up.

+1 and everyone made fun of me when I traded mine off for my Lexus. I haven't had but one software update in 9 months. No dead battery, no stupid check engine lights. I'm glad I traded mine.

Craig

Last winter, I had complete battery discharge twice. I had to hear same old arguments that I could have heard in the 1960s; Did you drive long enough? Did you leave your lights on? and Did you leave your vehicle parked longer period of time sort of things.

Hey... How long is long enough? Do they want me to drive 100s of miles every day? No... I always shuts off the system by pushing Enging Start button twice(comfort access). Yes.. I leave my vehicle in airport parking for a few days. I left my ex-Honda Civic back parked outside in the winter in 1980s, but it started after one month of no movement.

Battery issue with X5 is ridiculous, and so are BMW's(or dealers' service departments) arguments.

They told me the same thing, I didn't drive it enough and had to leave mine on a battery tender every night. The X5 was neither reliable or durable in my opinion.

Craig

My E60 and other E60's also have similar problems. I've also heard that the 7 series also has the same issues.

1.) The dealer can run an energy diagnostic to determine if its a driver/user issue or if there is drain in the system. If it is a drain in the system, they will fix it.
2.) If the computer determines it is a driver issue and you disagree, my personal opinion is that a lot of the batteries are damaged during shipment/sitting on the dealer lot. By damage, I mean the battery loses its charge, the dealer charges it back up but the battery now can only hold a 70% charge becuase some of the cells are permanently damaged. So, the car will operate fine with a full 70% charge but if you "leave teh door open" for a couple minutes, your margin of charge is so low that the car battery dies.

BMW doesn't want to give a you a new battery so they tell you to "plug it in".

Yout next option would be to buy a new battery that hasn't been sitting around and hope that it is a good battery.

BMW Roadside Assist is rubbish. It took forever for the tow company to get authorisation to tow the vehicle. I helped out dad by waiting/dealing with the towing company but that means I waited (wasted) 3,5 hours because some bureaucrats couldn't get it together.

I had an appointment at 3 which I barely made. I didn't even go to the dealer; simply helped get the 3-ton lump onto the tow truck and told him to drop it off at the dealership. Called the SA, told him to deal with the flat battery and tell me when its fixed.

Technically his X5 doesn't qualify as a lemon.......yet. We're confused as to why a $60k X5 has worse reliability than a 3er or a X3 (which is still on its first battery, knock on wood)

I had been getting the excessive battery discharge warning for a few weeks, at my last regular service I mentioned it to my SA. They did some sort of a diagnostic and determined it was not able to hold charge correctly, so they replaced it. This was couple of months back, so far no issues with new battery. We'll see if it starts to happen again...

So, can service dept check the health of battery by some sort of a diagnostic? I should talk to them then. Last winter, car just didn't start with a blink. Before warranty expire, I might talk to SA to replace my battery.

Got a call this morning from the SA, who said they ran the diagnostic overnight and determined that the cause was "the parking lights were left on"

What a load of BS.

My dad completely lost it on the phone this morning and is going to speak with the manager, as he repeated that he did not do anything as such, and I don't think he would. More than likely a fault with the system- any help on this?

We're not going to pay $600 for a new battery. If this means hiring a lawyer, so be it.

Got mine back late yesterday..new battery was installed..we'll see how it goes for the next 4 months (lease ends in April).

"Got a call this morning from the SA, who said they ran the diagnostic overnight and determined that the cause was "the parking lights were left on""

My theory on this is that the battery is weak and doesn't charge to 100%, but it charges high enough to not be "defective" or "dead".

So, if you leave your car door open for literally 5mintues, it will drain the battery enough where you will have problems and the car will say "parking lights left on". Unfortunately, I don't think it tells you how long they were left on.


The E60 forums has an actual PDF of the Energy Diagonostic procedure and the possible results that the tech reads.

"So, can service dept check the health of battery by some sort of a diagnostic? I should talk to them then. Last winter, car just didn't start with a blink. Before warranty expire, I might talk to SA to replace my battery."

Yes, but I bet they won't. They will run an Energy Diagnostic on the entire car. It will say if Comfort Access is draining your battery, the car isn't going into sleep mode or you don't drive enough to recharge the battery.

You can check the health of a battery yourself using a volt meter seeing how much voltage the battery if putting out when cold and also when the car is running with all the accessories on.

Yes, any auto parts store or battery store can load test your battery. Even the dealer can load test your battery...

Craig

This was listed on my service statement...

6120502 (Tech 1478, $270.15)
Desc: PERFORMING BATTERY ENERGY DIAGNOSIS

So if the battery was weak, what would bring it down to that low voltage in the first place? The vehicle was driven on the highway as part of his commute on Mon-Tue-Weds and his commute isn't short-distance. He's the kind of person that probably didn't even switch on the heated seats or any other strong-draw equipment.

I imagine that he arrived at work, got his rucksack out of the passenger seat, got out of the car, and locked it. Simple as that.

The vehicle is a lease, less than 8 months old with about 8k miles on the clock.

BMW has a know problem and, in typical BMW fashion, they are denying it and blaming it on the customer. Eventually they will fix it, but they are a stubborn bunch most of the time.

Case in point. BMW motorcycles were having the same problem of inadequate charging resulting in dead batteries in the early 1990's. BMW NA took exactly the same approach, i.e., you are not riding at high enough engine RPM, too many short trips, etc. It got to the point that they were giving a free BMW battery charger with every new BMW. BMW never admitted they had a problem/flaw, but somehow it disappeared.

Well, oddly enough, after about three years of this, they stopped giving the free battery chargers and nobody was having problems with dead batteries any more! I guess it was just magic that suddenly the battery problems disappeared.

Either the BMW charging system is flawed, the batteries are flawed, or there are flaws that cause excessive battery load when the vehicle is shut-down. It is absolutely ridiculous to even suggest that a vehicle with a 250+ HP engine cannot be designed to generate enough electricity to recharge a battery in a vehicle on short trips. My old 1992 Ford Explorer was driven one mile to and from the coffee shop every day for at least one-year and it never had any battery or starting issues. Sure the X5 has a lot more electrical load than a 1992 Explorer, but then shouldn't they design the charging system to match the increased load?

It has reached a point where the local newspaper "Problem Solver" even got involved in one of these excessive discharge issues.

BMW NA should be ashamed of how they have been handling this obvious flaw... or should I say NOT handling it.

P.S. Articles like this in major newspapers like the Chicago Tribune should do wonders for BMW sales:

Battery drain gets a charge out of BMW owner - chicagotribune.com

What I don't get is how BMW can design all these new electrical systems without seriously beefing up the battery, or at least making them more reliable.

My 2004 X3 has almost every electronic option except sat nav. It's parked outside most of the time. It's seen scorching summer heat and severe cold (-18°C overnight). I've left the radar detector plugged in overnight. I've left my aftermarket parking lights on for 7 hours by accident. The car is almost 7 years old with 100k miles. The battery has never failed (knock on wood) and still runs strong.

My mom's 2006 325i has every option except sat nav, but including the notorious battery-drain Comfort Access. Still starts fine too.

That's they way it should be.

BMW messed-up and they are stonewalling it and shooting themselves in the foot.

Maybe you should write to the local Problem Solver column in the Phoenix newspaper or TV station. I visit there once or twice a year and recall they have a similar column. Companies seem to take a more personal interest in your problems when they realize what they did, or didn't, do to fix it might be in the Sunday newspaper. You might try this:

Online Complaint Form - 12 News - azcentral.com

And provide a link to the Chicago Tribune article in your complaint so they can see what another newspaper did.

I wonder what is it worth in BMW advertising dollars to have an article in the Chicago Tribune start-out like this:

-----------------------------------------------------------------
"John Bergee paid almost $45,000 last fall for his used 2008 BMW 535i sedan.

At the time, the Champaign resident thought he was buying a well-made luxury machine.

What he got, he says, is a very expensive driveway ornament.

Repeatedly the car's battery has drained while sitting in his garage, leaving him unable to start the vehicle."
-----------------------------------------------------------------

I wonder how many thousand of dollars of "Joy of Driving" advertising it takes in the Chicago area to offset that article?

I hope someone at BMW is computing that number...

Interesting thread...the crummy batt/charging/electronics & gizmo glitches just won't go away on these cars. And, with cold weather here, for much of the country, it seems to exacerbate the situ; right up there with CV problems.

It is remarkable that BMW is so unwilling to really address the problem and make some fix(es)...if it wasn't for some willing dlrs, a lot of people would be replacing batts every year or two. It almost seems more pronounced on the E70s than our old E53s.

AznMpower: $600 for a new batt?! It must have the 22k gold posts.
Do your Pop an Xmas favor: if the stlr doesn't cover a new one, buy one from AZ or Batts Plus, and install it for him, as an Xmas gift.
GL, mD

Same BS I went through, but BMW never offered me a free battery tender. I had to purchase my own...

Craig

So ... Today I had a new error message. It said remote discharge warning ... Or something like that. Pretty certain it's different from the regular discharge warnings I was getting.

Anyway, the bad news is I just had the battery replaced a couple of weeks ago.

I'm tired of this cr*p. It's bloody p*ss poor.

Last time I started a good rant against BMW it resulted in a thread with 1,762 posts and 134,720 reads ! It's the famous m3 Dct software fiasco which BMW finally have fixed after 18 months or so !

Perhaps we need to start a sticky regarding the battery issue and get some media attention to prompt BMW to sort this out.

I agree.

As some of you know, this battery drain issue was my main concern when we ordered our 2009 35d last summer. In fact, this is the only reason I haven't hot wired the cargo area 12v plug for the cooler we used in our E53 for over 8 yrs with no problems. The battery drain issue is still a concern, but much less so, since we have had our 35d for 16 months now with no electrical problems.

IMHO the issue is probably the 3rd option "... flaws that cause excessive battery load when the vehicle is shut down". Simply because too many of us have X5's that don't seem to have the problem. Maybe we are just lucky or drive our X5s just enough, or use fewer power draining options to barely avoid the issue. But I don't think so.This is almost certainly a flaw in the X5 electrical system that causes these meltdowns. The only real question is whether this flaw is in ALL X5s just waiting to happen or whether the flaw only effects X5s with certain combinations of options.

Funf Dreisig

Yes exactly. Probably the reason they never found this in testing. It will be a certain configuration of options, used in a particular scenario. Needle in a haystack ... as they say.

No battery problems with my 2009 35d to date (since July 2009).

Living here in Anchorage, AK, I'm sure electrical system is heavily taxed over the winter (heavy use of lights, seat heaters, steering wheel heater, aux heaters, glow plugs on start-up, etc). I'll knock of wood for now and hope no problems develop.

Daily commute is 14 miles one-way at highway speeds (55 - 65 mph). Has sat at the airport for nearly two weeks in cold before (-10 to 20 degF). Sits outside during work day, with temps as low as -20 degF. To date, has always started up with no problems. As someone mentioned earlier, is this problem widespread to the X5s? Any idea of what percentage of forum members have reported problems?

The main purpose of this note was to point out that while I was roaming around at the local BMW dealer a while back, I noted (and I apologize for forgetting what model it was) but a new BMW had a battery tender added to the dealer equipment sticker. I for one, would not purchase a car if you told me I had to constantly keep it on a battery tender. Not a very good sales point in my view. Even a possible weekend driver, which I don't think it was, (Z4, M3, roadster, etc) should be able to keep a battery charged. Hell, my first car (1974 Dodge Dart) could sit for months and still start!

My guess is comfort access is somehow one of the key players. My business partner has an 09 4.8 and drives 3 miles to work each day...car is two years old and i don't think he has 10k miles on it, and has more options than i do (ventilated seats) and NO comfort access and his car sits for weeks on end not being used when he travels and he's never had an issue.

With C.A. i know to lock the car each time i walk away, keep the keys far away at night, but suspect that this has been the major factor in my issues over the last year, and finally got to the point that the battery just couldn't take it.

Both my 2007 3.0si and 2008 4.8i did NOT have Comfort Access (and I think the 3.0si didn't even have heated seats).

BOTH the '07 and '08 WITHOUT Comfort Access were constantly displaying Low Battery warnings (with the '07 not starting many, many times).

As a former frustrted E70 owner, I know we all want "to find" the answer & reason for battery issues, but IMO, I do not think Comfort Access is the reason. I still think the car is just not properly "going to sleep" when not in use, and too many functions are just continually pulling juice from the battery!

Does anyone know why the 2011 35d does NOT have regenerative braking, but the 2011 35i and 50i do? I had that on my 2010 750, and it is an amazing feature. Marginally better mpg, but virtually no brake dust and the battery gets an added recharging helper! Also, wonder why the 2011 35i and 50i get the awesome new 8 speed transmission & the 35d still uses the 6 speed (although the tranny in my 35d is very smooth, I love BMWs new 8 speed).

Btw, I put my 2011 35d on the BMW trickle charger last night. I had no warnings or indications that the battery was low, but I had not driven it for 4.5 days (spent that last few days taking the Range Rover out in this icky, un-Californian weather we're stuck with :)

With the BMW charger, red light means charging, blinking green means almost done and solid green means fully charged & complete.

Within an hour or 2 hooked up to the 35d, it started blinking green. The battery must be fine, even though it sat for 4.5 days.

If my '07 or '08 E70 sat for 4-5 days w/o being driven, it would take 24-36 hours for the trickle charger to either blink green or show a full charge.

I don't think the 8 speed could handle the torque of the 35d. That's just a guess...

Craig

That's because the 35d is a "lame duck" model that is only made for the North American market at this point. The rest of the world including Europe has moved onto the 40d with the facelift. Implementing new technology and drivetrains is easier when you're starting fresh in the first place. The xDrive40d makes 306bhp, achieves even lower fuel consumption and emissions, has Regenerative Braking, and has the 8-speed auto. Given that BMW went through the trouble of developing the Urea system and certification just a few years ago in the US, they didn't bother going thru the process all over again in such a short time.

I don't think the 35d is a "lame duck". Does the 40d not have the Urea system? I read online, that the 40d does put out more emissions than the 35d, and CA, VT, MA, NY and CT would not approve the 40d for sale in these 5 states. While the EU has very strict emission regulations, these 5 US states are stricter. I'm sure BMW is annoyed & it costs more having to produce 2 diesel X5s in S.Carolina at the same time.

None of the BMW diesels in Germany come with the Urea system standard, it's something specifically designed just for the US. The old 35d puts out 220g/km versus 198 g/km for the new 40d. The old 35d consumes more fuel too: 8,3 l/100km combined cycle versus 7,5 l/100km for the 40d. Also in response to the tightening emissions standards, the 40d achieves the EURO 5 emissions tier, versus EU4 for the old 35d.

The 330d can be equipped with a similar BluePerformance option that means EURO 6 but that's out of scope.

Yes, it costs more to still have to source parts for the 35d, but it costs a whole lot more to recertify the 40d for those pesky CARB states. Perhaps BMW should sell the 40d in states like SC and VA that don't have emissions tests ;)

It isn't possible to directly contrast diesels certified for the North American market, and those for Europe, since the emissions regulations have a different focus. Europe tends to focus more on CO2 (the approx 200 gram/km figures mentioned above), while the US has a focus on Nitrides of Oxygen (NOx). Urea injection is there specifically to reduce NOx.

Certifying an engine for North America is expensive, and the controls require different development than for the EU market. You aren't going to see two equivalent (35d and 40d) models in the US at the same time. It will tend to be a leapfrog IMO, with the 30d developed for Europe, the 35d developed for the US, the 40d out now in the rest of the world, and the 45d tri-turbo to be released in the next few years.

Back on topic: Didn't hear from the dealer today. Last Friday in the afternoon he called up my dad and said they were "ordering parts." No idea what that means, because I had also requested that they check the loose cruise control stalk.

I'm waiting to hear back from a friend trying to figure out any legal options, if any, we can take because we're not sure if BMW will cover the faulty battery or associated electric parts.

Good luck AzNM! Keep us posted.

Our 2010 M6 has been parked in the garage for 4 days. Yeah, just FOUR days! Low battery warning this morning!!! It is disgusting that a new, 2010 BMW cannot sit 4 days, without the battery going low, or dying! BMW has to do something. I cannot believe there are no major, class action lawsuits, or recalls about this. We have had EVERY major luxury brand car, and NOT one other brand has this kind of battery issue! It's really unbelieveable!!!

In my opinion it is not charging system what is wrong, it is the drain that's the problem.
I had my Blower Motor Resistor replaced a few months ago, and the BMW technician told me that this part is notorious for causing the 'High Discharge' warning. Unfortunately I saw the warning this afternoon again... It is pretty cold over here in the Netherlands these days, so I guess the 'temperature plays it role too....
Still I fully agree with most of you guys here at this forum that our X5 is a high end automobile that should not have these kind of problems....

Yeah, considering y'all in the Nederland pay €78.000 for the "entry" X5 30d. :eeps:

Right... That for the 'basic' ;) Mine has almost every option in the book (which is probably why my battery has such a hard time........)

The only battery problem that I have had was when my wife left the running lights on all night. My X5 35D has over ten thousand miles on it.

Also when I called BMW Assist to get a jump start it only took about twenty minutes for them to get there.

Chuck

2009 march build. I Had problems since night one after pick up of "high current drain" or simililar, particular after washing the car as I had comfort access and a lot of other options that use battery. The first time they told me all the crap about battery charging and not doing something correctly, which I cannot understand also as these are BMW not a korean car. The second time they completely replace the battery with a higher capacity batter and reprogrammed the car and guess what, nothing since. They did admit the second time that there is issues with x5 re battery and software. Go back to your dealer and get them to do the same and you can then sleep peacefully.

My local dealer and BMWNA wouldn't replace my battery. I just traded off my lemon and haven't had any problems with my Lexus GX 460 Premium.

Craig

Craig,

Wasn't your Lexus recalled for stability problems and had to be reprogramed?

Chuck

Yeah, that took a whole 15 minutes for the software update. I had them do that when I had my new wheels installed. Other than that, I haven't had one single problem. My X5 was in the shop over ten times in one year. I was at the local dealer 30-40 times. My X5 was also delivered with damaged wheels. That took 3 trips back to my selling dealer 110 miles in each direction. I learned a good lesson, don't take delivery of a new vehicle if it's not perfect. Don't believe a salesman, BMW, or the dealer.
BMW wanted to re finish my wheels on a brand new vehicle. The dealer swapped them out, but it was a huge pain in the neck. I also ended up with Bridgestone tires when I had Michelins from the factory.

Craig

My dad got the X5 back yesterday. They replaced the battery under goodwill, changed the oil and wiper blades, and replaced the loose cruise control stalk (actually, the entire switch column, as the stalks are all one unit).

The trickle charger is now going wherever the X5 goes. And we're almost halfway to the "lemon" marker (13 days out of service)