Sad news;
 

My X5M is once again at the dealer for software "issues"

I was driving it Saturday and the engine light came on.
Took it to the only dealer in SD that had someone that wait for me, Brecht.
Not where I bought the car but the shop foreman who was 15min from being off work said he'd wait for me and at least scan my car.

There we at least 20 error codes. Only two of which had anything to do with the engine. None of them lead to anything that was actually not working.

Last time they had the car for something like a little over two weeks.
This is the second time in for the same problem.

BMWNA is going to be making a least one payment.
If there's a third time they'll be getting the car back.

I'm so sorry! I remember on my 2007 3.0si, and to a lesser (but still frequent dealer visits) on my 2008 4.8i....I was constantly having to go to the dealer. Codes, warning lights, etc..

BMW did graciously and somewhat easily buy my X5 3.0si back from me. When I took faith in the E70 again with a 2008 4.8i, and the problem's started , and started big time...they refused to help me out a 2nd time.

I LOVE the E70, but it does seem to have A LOT of problems, especially for being in production now for almost 4 years.

The E53 was bullet proof within a few years of production. I still think the E70 is the best looking European SUV/SAV on the road though!!!

Good Luck & yes demand they make a monthly payment! We did this with Mercedes a few year back, with our SL that sat on and off in the Service Dept. for almost 2 months! They paid a month's payment and installed the Mercedes built in phone at no charge!

Hopefully you are documenting the codes, the issues, etc, so that you have a leg to stand on... I guess this thread is just a 'venting' as opposed to a request for help (without posting the specific codes, there is no help possible)

Do keep in mind that the lemon laws require that it be 'the same issue'. "Software Issues" is not the same issue each time..."CEL light on" is likewise not "the same issue".

If there were "20 codes" on my car, I'd be getting a work order from them with every codes listed.... if one code cause 3 return trips: lemon.

Good luck

A

Agree with ard. Get the codes and post them. 20 is a hell of a lot.

I or a list of the codes from Saturday.

The problem is that the shop foreman at Brecht cleared them all before I left.
So when I got to San Diego BMW yesterday there were no codes. Though they have a copy of the list from Brecht.

It's clear there is something wrong with the software on my car.
Not one of the codes led to anything actually wrong.
For example one of the codes was for "one touch opening" on the sun roof; the sun roof works just like it supposed to.

Another was for the drivers side airbag be being inop; but no dash light and the airbag seems fine (according to the shop foreman).

I was told by the Brecht shop foreman as well as the service manager at SD BMW that BMWNA is buying back a lot of cars due to "software issues". The service manager is working with BMW to get a payment covered.

Software issue.....thats the sad reality, we are no longer buying interresting mechanic and performance, we are buying software, with all the negative that it implies, loss of pilot control, inability to pin point error , difficulties if not impossibilities to find a quick fix other then waiting for the software engineer, inadequacy of the functions available...
by the way, who ask for all that crap,,,is it really what we consider progress.....

my X5 would stop running all of a sudden in the winter.....right in Montreal, the dealer say to keep running and if it re-occur bring it in,...there were no messages....they told me not to worry

I remember how much fun my first 1987 530 was...or was it a 528????
strickly mechanical pleasure

BMW has lost its lustre

Gotta take the good with the bad I suppose. ABS brake technology has saved my bacon several times. No way in the world I would have been able to pump locking brakes 30 times a second in order to avoid an accident. And the traction control system is quite frankly brilliant.

1. Good software is good software; bad is bad. BMW seems to be more challenged than other marques.

2. One of the biggest issues I see personally with BMW is a lack of quality field service (ie their POS Dealer network). Unfortunately they can only be as good as the mechanics that are employed by the independent dealerships. Furthermore, as less money is made, less training is offered....

3. Just like you have half truths about "California hates Diesel, that's why the CARB approval is delayed", you get stories like above ("BMW is buying back alot of cars due to software") that are based on natural biases people already have (against software, against the government, against California CARB). If the car has computer error reporting systems, and a noisy module is tripping random codes that the dealer cannot figure out, the 'story' becomes "bad software". Not necessarily.

4. Truth be known, today's 3rd and 4th generation software is pretty robust- yes it can be better, but I do not pine for the (good) old days without a good reason.

A

That is incorrect. Most lemon laws state that 1) 3 times for the same repair. 2) Vehicle is down for repairs for 20-30 business days. 3)Problem affects safety, use of operation, or value.

I know the states of Florida and Washington would have a field day for a CEL continuously coming on (would not have to be the same problem). I know, had to defend the auto manufacture I worked for. Some states are pro consumer, big time.

I would recommend you contact the appropriate governing body for lemon law procedures in your state. Information would include what qualifies for lemon law.

Hope BMW resolves your concern.

I agree with THK. California is pretty pro-consumer. It does NOT have to be the same problem, 3 times, to be the only grounds for a lemon buy back. It can be how many days the car has been in the service dept, and you not being able to use the car.

When BMW bought my '07 X5 back...they and the dealer were awesome. When my '08 4.8i was awful, and I wanted out of it as well...they were not awesome at all! :-o

The California Lemon Law seems to be a bit more vague than some other states' lemon laws:

Consumers - Motor Vehicle Warranty and Lemon Law - California Dept. of Justice - Office of the Attorney General

Great, a lawyer. In your professional opinion then, if the CEL comes on three times- NO MATTER WHAT THE REPAIR OR ACTION TAKEN- this is a lemon law qualifying situation?

Because that is what you imply.



You actually don't know what you are agreeing to.... Surely there are other grounds for lemon buybacks, but in terms of the "three times" qualification are you saying (like THK said) that any fault that sets a CEL no matter what the repair will get you a buyback?

Nevermind that CA has different numbers of repair attempts depening on the issue...

You DO understand that "California" doesn't actually get involved in this process? There are state laws and regs that define this, but it is up to BMW to interpret and for the consumer to press their issue. You don't call an office and the person in charge says "BMW, pay this" or "BMW buy this back"...

(THK...the 'appropriate governing body'?!?!? That would be the California Legislature. Do you have their number? Seriously, here are the regs: Consumers - Motor Vehicle Warranty and Lemon Law - California Dept. of Justice - Office of the Attorney General )

(edit: penguin already posted this- first hit from a google of 'california lemon laws'...legal geniuses both he and I)

But hey, if you guys are both saying "don't worry about what sets the CEL, three times and BMW automatically buys the car back" then the OP is all set.

:popcorn:

So the deal is the dealer reflashed my car again.

A rep from BMW talked to me today. Without going through the entire conversation the bottom line is that shalould the carbthrow any false codes after this reflash BMW will explore a remedy with me.

There is nothing wrong with my car other than software.
As the rep said "you didn't pay $100k dollars for a car you can't have complete faith and trust in, we'll make it right".

As of right now there are no fault codes, from here we'll see what happens.

With my experiences on M cars. Best would be to get rid of it now, back to BMWNA. I did that in South Africa with an E60 M5. The car just either switched off at anytime or refused to start? was brand new, not even run in yet. The engine was perfect, it's the ECU, M-DME & only God knows which computer link just keeps on failing. Once all their investigations were completed (4 weeks) BMW-SA, replaced me with a brand new M5. I was also given a loan 550i at the time for the gross inconvenience. P.S. They never truly found the problem & the M5 was apparently shipped back to Germany, so I was told?

So honestly if your problem persists, insist on your money back or a brand new M.

I ran into repeated issues of my 2010 X5 throwing mutiple / dozens of inexplicable error codes. It was not clear what was triggering them, but they eventually included engine, airbags, abs, and brakes codes, even though the car was driving fine (except in the last instance, when the engine ran rough and wouldn't restart right away ). The codes tended to go away if we restarted the car.

If you get the car back, I suggest you take a video camera or phone wityh you. If it happens again, take a picture of of the i-drive screen and dashboard so your dealer can see all the error codes and what the car is doing.

After being in the shop mutliple times and unable to resolve what was causing the error codes, my dealer and BMW volunteered to swap my X5 for a 2011 model, which thankfully has been fine.

While I monitored the situation with the lemon law in mind, we never raised it and didn't feel the need to raise a huge stink about the problem because the dealer had arranged a loaner for us the whole time the car was in the shop, and we knew and expected the dealer and BMW to fix the problem or buy the car back.

I personally feel this type of problem can and does happen in any modern vehicle (or any complex technilogical device for that matter), but in the end, BMW stood by their product, so we are still happy customers.

Yes, agree with DSE, get a video camera and take pictures of the codes and problems as they come up ..I did this and it was really helpful to prove that there were real problems rather than the dealer trying to replicate them in their own time ..and often with gremlin electric problems they can be there one moment and not the next (typically there for you but not the dealer/mechanic etc)