2011 35d Fire/Smoldering (help needed!)
 

All,

I'd like to give everyone an update. As some of you know, my 2009 35D, repurchased in December 2009 in a "Lemon Buyback format," as the vehicle suffered from a random stalling issue. The symptoms began on the 3rd day of ownership. Its main computer fried itself for some unknown reason. It was replaced accordingly and drove fine for 100 miles, until it again began to stall. I drove the vehicle back to the dealer, and again the main computer had fried itself. At the same time a relay was replaced on a hunch. (I can provide exact codes, for those interested, if this discussion warrants them)

The dealership confided in me that they did not believe the vehicle was repaired, and they were correct. It continued to stall and/or go into fault/safe mode. Luckily, the vehicle was showing error codes and it was not something that the techs were able to visually observe on the FASTA system

After many weeks of negotiations, and several VERY close calls in traffic, (I live in the Bay Area), BMW agreed to repurchase the vehicle for the full purchase price and replace it with a 2011 BMW X5 35d, which I then special ordered.

For the most part I bought the same car, as follows:
2011 35D, Space Grey, Adaptive Drive, Comfort Seats, Nav., Lane Departure Warning, 20" 214s with run-flats, roof rails, side step rails, smart phone integration, tire/wheel 5-year warranty, tan leather, cold weather package, rear climate control, ipod integration, tech package.

Total price was $69,980.00+/-.

The vehicle has been a dream, since I bought it on July 26, 2010. It was delivered with just 9-miles on it, and it appeared that every glitch the 2009 35d had, was solved on the 2011 35d model. The handling with the 20" wheels is amazing! Currently the vehicle has 380 miles +/-.

Last night while driving home my wife and I smelled something burning. We thought it was a restaurant, as we were stopped at a light. Though, it soon began to smell like an electrical fire. About 1-mile later, we pulled into our driveway. At the moment my wife made the following comment "something really smells bad," the car began to smoke heavily from beneath the hood.

I immediately shut the car off, and pushed the SOS button. The operator quickly assessed the situation and informed me he had called the fire dept. He also asked that I move the vehicle away from our home. We complied, and rolled the windows down, as the entire vehicle smelled of electrical burning.

The fire department took 15-minutes to arrive. By that time, the vehicle had stopped smoking. I did not witness any flames, and did not open the hood, as I did not want to add oxygen to anything that was combusting. The SOS advised the vehicle be towed to the shop on a flatbed, rather than us driving it to the dealership

Today, I got a call from an actual technician, who said they were unable to find anything burnt. They said they smelled nothing of an electrical nature, and said that the vehicle burns off large particulates at random intervals (which is true).

Though, for the life of me, this was not diesel particulate burn-off. The amount of smoke was akin to what one would encounter if one poured water onto a smoldering Bar-B-Q and it had a very heavy electrical smell. Once one has spent years around electronics, and smells circuit board frying, you don't mistake the smell.

Having said that, they can find nothing wrong with the vehicle at this time. No sign of wire harness damage, etc. They said it's possible there was contaminants on the catalytic convertor. I'm just not buying it, but if that's the reality, I'd be happy, as I really don't want to go another round with BMW.

To compound issues, the flatbed they sent had a horrific operator. I forced him to inspect the car prior to transport. Which he refused to do. I gave him a choice of inspecting it and signing off that no damage was present, or he could offload the vehicle.

He agreed to look at the vehicle, signed "no damage." and went on his way. He used thick nylon straps through the 20" 214 wheels to secure the vehicle. They had metal buckles on the ends of them. When I inspected the vehicle at the dealership today, the rear passenger wheel was deeply scratched and marred. The same wheel's black plastic fender was deeply abraded in multiple places, and the rear passenger door has a scratch in in, that is down to bare metal.

I called out the service manager to look at it. He said he was shocked and that it would probably require a replacement wheel, fender, but dealing with the paint is going to be an issue. It's too deep to buff out, and I certainly don't want to risk a body shop chop job. There are only a handful of places in the country I'd trust with reproducing a factory fresh coating, and none of them are owned or operated by BMW.

With that said, I'm looking for opinions on how to proceed. BMW will not release the vehicle. The said they're contemplating as to whether or not they should perform an SPI inspection, which is basically a safety tear-down of the vehicle to make sure its operating correctly. I was told only five (5) people in the country perform these jobs, and it could take weeks before they'll release it.

So, I have a car that smoldered, if not outright caught on fire, a dealer that is scratching their heads (again), an X5 in the shop-potentially for weeks, a damaged vehicle due to a poor tow job, and BMW Financial lost $1,050.00 of our funds from the first BMW. The Lemon. I love the car, but this is ridiculous. Is it the dealer? Is it the company?

Has anyone else heard of a 35d smoldering, to the degree described? I'm just in shock that I'm now faced wit the potential of having two lemons in a row. It befuddles my mind. Any help and/or suggestions would be GREATLY appreciated.

Thanks in advance all...

Wow. That's too bad. Sorry to hear yoive had such luck.

Does sound like bad luck. Do you have an equivalent BMW loaner throughout this (you should have)? Lemons are not that common. It's unlikely but entirely possible that one person ends up with two lemons in a row.

One more reason we should always carry a digital camera or keep a cheap one in the car (the simple ones are very cheap these days if you don't have one on your phone).

If you get it back and it smokes again get as many photos as possible or use video if the camera supports it. If the smoke wasn't too bad, I'd also chance opening the hood (be careful when opening) and try to take photos both above about below the engine compartment. Should narrow it down and provide enough evidence of a serious problem. Chances are they will figure this out though - with that much smoke, there has to be visible damage somewhere.

Sorry man.

You certainly do have bad luck with your BMWs. If I were you, my next vehicle would not be a BMW...

Have they inspected the exhaust manifold for any evidence of a plastic bag possibly getting trapped on it?

Never heard of an SPI..... ever.

There are plenty of shops that can do MUCH, MUCH better than a "BMW factory fresh" paint job....thats a laugh. BMW paint quality sucks. Indeed, the hardest part is reproducing the degree of orange peel so that an experienced eye cannot tell which panel is in fact better than factory.

No need to have it repaired "at BMW". You can have it repaired wherever you want. They are financially liable for your loss, just as if they had driven into your car- you are not required to allow them to fix it.

Making my living wiring race cars I too know that distinct smell of an electrical fire. I've had my share of SNAFUs and it's pretty much a given that electrical systems don't work once you let the smoke out. I've had a coworker light up the underside of a dash like the inside of a toaster and it didn't give off the amount of smoke you mention (water on a bbq).:rofl:

I would venture to guess that if it were anything electrical (be it a loom, ECU, starter, alternator, etc...) that made the amount of smoke it would be fairly obvious to find what caused it as that something would most likely have stopped working.

I believe you could ask BMWNA to open a PUMA case and get some higher level techs involved in troubleshooting what caused the smoke/smell. Given that the vehicle still functions and isn't presenting any obvious failures I'm leaning towards something melting on or leaking on to the exhaust.

I would be furious about the tow truck driver damage by the way. The dealership should fix it and bill the towing company. I would absolutely make sure they remove and disassemble the door to repaint and bake it.

Good luck.

Wow, thats very unlucky. Especially with all the hassle you've being through.

Not that it will help, but my 2009 x5 35d has 30,000 miles on it, and its had no issues w.r.t burning or odd smells.

I would get them to fix the damage that the flat bed truck has caused. Wheel and fender flare is a easy fix and will be like new again. As for the passenger door, let them try and fix it. If you are not satisfied get them to fix it again until you are. I've found BMW approved paint shops great a paint matching.

As for the smoke you witnessed, if it was me I would ask that once the repairs (that the tow truck caused) have being done to your satisfaction, you go out on a long test drive with one of the service techs to see if the problem can be replicated. If it can't I would take the car and if it happened again, if you have a phone that's capable of recording video (iphone) or just a video camera .. video the problem so you can present it to your dealer. I would open the hood as well to see if you can identify where the smoke/smell/burning may be coming from. The more information you can provide to the dealer, the better chance they have of understanding the problem.

I did this ONCE, many years ago. NEVER again.

I am VERY particular, and as it turns out 95% of the public is stupid when it comes to paint.... "Oh, it looks so shiny" seems the basis for evaluation.

I had a minor issue on an Infitinti Q45 that I let them paint- they blew it and had to redo it. They blew that. It went from a quarter panel paint/blend/ clearcoat to 'two doors, quarter panel, trunk and rear bumper blend' with a 'remove front and rear glass, all trim, clearcoat all of the above panels PLUS roof and pillars'.

Do not give them the chance to F it up.... set expectations up front.

My 2 cents

A

ARD I'm with you on the paint 100%. Looks are 10% of a paint job. It's what's beneath that final coat of color and clear, that makes all the difference.

To everyone else, thanks all for the comments. I agree about the electrical issue, if a loom or harness were burned or shorted, it should be obvious. Then again, this dealership missed some major electrical issues on my past 35d, which resulted in it shorting out its main computer for the second time. So, who knows. It's not rocket science, and should be a simple affair.

Though the remains of a bag should have been obvious also, or even cosmoline, as they claim (I'm told they're no longer using cosmoline, but a similar substance). The service manager told me they would replace the wheel, the fender, and see about the door. He seemed genuine, but I'll believe it when I see it. I'm sure it will require some haggling. It's a lot of damage for them to absorb. They're cost on it is probably around $2,500, I'd bet, for everything.

I'm most concerned about the door. I ran a detail shop, in my youth. I agree to the person who said better paint jobs can be performed, but replicating to an existing level of orange peel is nearly impossible, especially at a BMW Collision Center. They're just not skilled enough.

It may be best to have them clay the entire car, buff the area well, with increasingly less course buffing compounds, then wax the car, apply glaze. The scratch will still be visible, but I'm not trusting this dealership any longer, period. If they can get rid of the ridges on the scratch (which goes down to the metal), and they compensate a bit for the damage, I think I'd accept that over a botched paint job.

It's simply bad luck, nothing else. I've read of a few 35d that have burned down also, but nothing routine or to the point that there appears to be a pattern, unless BMW knows something I don't or we (as a board don't). I think it's just bad luck, pure and simple. Yes the odds of two lemons in a row are high, but it happens, I suppose?

This car is my baby. It handles so well and looks so great, I can't fathom giving it up. I was thrilled to receive the new model, after the problems with the old one, everything was perfect, until this.

The SPI inspection is rare, and I don't know what the acronym stands for.

But, in short, I was told that there are 5-individuals in the U.S. that travel the country, conducting SPIs. When they perform an SPI, the spend as much time as is required inspecting every inch of the vehicle. It's basically a teardown of the vehicle's safety systems, to make sure everything is operating as it should. It's VERY rare, but so is a smoking 35D!

I did get a 2009 X3 loaner, with no fuss. Given that this is the 2nd X5 in a row with a major issue, and the damage caused by the tow, they're taking it far more seriously this time around.

Again, I really do think this is a case of bad luck, and that BMW is surely capable of producing trouble free vehicles. I know many of you have had zero issues or minor routine bugs. But truly for the life of me, having accidentally fried motorcycles electronics to avionics on airplanes, I'd never mistake the smell of burnt electronics. Maybe a wire scrap was on the cat and it caught fire. The smell is akin to melting lead, copper, and insulation (for those of you who solder, it's similar, or that of a venting battery, etc.)

If my wife had not been there I would have opened the hood, but given the SOS guy was on the line and directed me not to, I could see them declining a warranty claim, if the thing went up in smoke, due to me adding oxygen to whatever was smoldering. Even if it was cosmoline, with more oxygen, it could have produced a flame. The Fire Dept. was in no rush to put out a BMW car fire, trust me. I don't blame them. It's like a "cat in a tree call." They just wanted to see a cool car, and in that regard they were awesome and agreed with the smell, etc., took a report, and were on their way.

I really don't want another lemon or the hassle of having to get a new car. I love BMWs and I love this X5. I

If it was cosmoline or a similar compound, I'd be thrilled. That's an easy fix. As long as they repair the wheel, door and fender, I'd consider the dealer and I square.

The service manager was pissed, so again we'll see if he produces. To those who said they're afraid of taking delivery of the 35d, don't be. I've just had a run of bad luck, pure and simple. It could even be something weird they're doing during they're pre-check. Who knows. There could be a short in their own equipment, that they're interfacing with the 35ds. I don't know if it's possible, but maybe there's a virus in their software updates? I'm just throwing out weird/potentials. I don't know. BTW, a PUMA case is already open. The higher ups are calling the shots right now.

Thanks all for the advice, it's much appreciated. I'll keep you all updated, but the advice is great. I am now going to stand firm in not taking the car back without a guarantee that the damage to the vehicle will be repaired, etc.