Almost wintertime.....
 

Only 10 Celsius tonight.....Time to get winter tires ready.

I would like to use the stock 19" but looks really stupid with the extended flares.

Any body got an idea how to make the wheels stand out a bit?

30 mm HR spacers for the rears, 10 mm (or nothing) in front

:iagree:

I've got to make the same decision but I've got 3 months. Here is what I'm deciding:
Stock is staggered 19's with performance tires.
Option 1: Keep the 19s for summer tires and buy 18's or non staggered 19s with winter tires.
Option 2: Find winter tires that fit the staggered 19s and upgrade to 20s and max performance summer tires.

Option 1 would be less $$$ and not wasting the current tires. But I want the 333M wheels.
Option 2 could be done in parts, 19 in. winter tires late November and 20's next spring.

Honestly, I am going to use 214's running Pirelli snow and ice in the stock 20" size. I know that many many people will say that you are better on a less wide tire, and I see the virtue in it.

When I had an e46 M3, I ran the stock 18" stock staggered set up, with 255 in the rear and 225 in the front. For a car that had a LSD, but no all wheel drive, I can tell you that I had absolutely amazing traction in the winter, even in 12" of white stuff.

Keeping in mind that I never drive like Paul Tracy in the winter, and that the roads are cleared within 48hrs, I have no problem doing the 20's. The xDrive is amazing and the traction on the Pirelli's, I believe, will be up to the challenge.

Winter is too long to lose the 20" look. I think that the compromise is worth it.

Think the spacers would be the best option. I really don't want to put 315's winter tires on the 20" rims. First of all they will be $$$ and as I will driving to the ski hill here lots of times, lots of snow can be expected.

I did have the Pirelli Snow/Ice (18") on the Touareg, and they where awesome.

Thanks for the replies. Who sells the HR's ?

Unless you are driving in snow every day I also went with the 19" with winters. I like the mix of handling along with snow performance. Like you said, we have actual snow on the ground maybe 20 days in the winter and want better performance during the other 100+ days of cold weather and now snow

You guys got me thinking seriously about 19's. I always went for 18's but suffered when the roads were dry. I have two very small children though and want the absolute best winter performer when the conditions are very bad. I live in North NJ. We get some sonow and a lot of slush that turns to ice, it's a mess. I also live in a very hilly neighborhood, Palisades on NJ.. Very steap hills.. Decisions decisions..

I can say this. I have winters on both cars and believe they are much safer than anyone on all seasons. Chicago conditions are much like NJ and I also have two children. I am not sure how much better the 18's would be over 19's In the snow because you would be driving more cautious and i am pretty sure you are more worried about the other drivers My concern is having to do an evasive manuver in dry or wet conditions and feel the 19" will perform better. Plus the excellent AWD that BMW has will just complement any snow tire.

:iagree:

unless you shoot up to Boone often i don't see your issue so much. :stickpoke

you might want to try some all-seasons.

Imo, "18s" for winter will not provide any less "performance" in non-winter
conditions than 19s...I suspect it's more about cosmetics and the mental
aspect of bigger is better, for all but real snow.

I had puny style 57s, (17s), with dedicated Michey Alpins, on our X for 5
winters: they performed like a Mtn Goat here on our very steep Mtn roads,
and that was with the old non-X drive. They also ran well on our several
trips up and down the east coast. Sure I like my style 132 19s, but the
performance aspect is way overblown, imo.

And, I realize there are pages of anecdotes like mine, except posters
regale the 19s and, even 20s in snow. Pick your size, pick any decent
dedicated snow tire brand, and have at. But, the rationale for bigger
during those non-winter days is suspect, imo. For serious winter conditions,
more than a few days/weeks per season, higher profile & "smaller", will
almost always out perform "bigger", and real winter tires will kick "all season"
tars' butt.
GL, mD

I will likely be heading to WV in the winter several times to visit family. Plus Charlotte had several snows last winter. I was just lucky the occurred on Friday and melted by Monday.

i will disagree with you on performance. I made the mistake and put a set of 17" down from my 20's on my E53 and it was a huge mistake. The first time I had to swerve to miss a crater on a chicago highway, I was scared because the tire was so soft. I ended up selling the 17" and went to 18" take-offs out of California. I found them cheep and it was a huge difference.

The smallest you can go on the E70 is an 18" wheel from what I have read, due to brake clearance.

I'm going with 18" winters accordingly, trying to decide between the Blizzak DM-V1 which sounds like a very soft, non-performance tire, or the Alpin HP non-RFT version for more dry performance.

Looks like those that are using 19's for the winter are recommended to use spacers.

I'm on 20's right now with fender flares.

What is the recommendation for us that are going from 20's to 18's for winter? Spacers or take off the flares?

30mm

What size tires are you getting for the 18's? OEM's are 255's which is the same as the 19's

Using the OEM size of 18's for winter on Style 210 rims.

Any side effects that I should be worried about?

(Other than flares and 18's WITHOUT spacers looking crazy ugly :) )

There are additional risks with spacers, because you are loading the wheel bearings, hubs, and wheel bolts beyond what they were designed for. If they are well-made hub-centric spacers, with appropriate wheel bolts, you can mitigate some of those risks, but you won't change the fact that you are loading up the wheel bearings.

Spacers have their supporters, and that is fine. Others won't ever use them, choosing function over appearance. Your call.

Edit: Some more reading for you. See the link I provided in post #7 on this thread: http://www.xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-foru...l-spacers.html

So the 18's are not chosen for the width advantage(because they are the exact same width) o but the availability of different brands and the price of the 18's over the 19's....... Ok make much more sense to me now...... I should have interjected earlier about the same tire width... I guess that is why I was confused..... I

Its already been down to 2C here in Scotland this autumn.

I am currently on 214's also, and don't feel like buying more wheels. What width and aspect ratio will you end up running for the winter set-up? I see that the pirelli's range from a width of 245-295. What is the recommend width for our wheels?

Adding fuel to the fire:

If you are riding on 214's, Tire Rack shows the Pirelli Scorpion Ice & Snow RFT available for $1,400/set. Add in $400/year ($200 per tire change) for mounting and balancing. So total cost over 3 winters of $2,600.

OR you could get Pirelli Scorpion RFT's on 18" Moda EB1 wheels, mounted and balanced for $1,500/set. Never have to break down those 214's unless / until you wear out your summer tires. Do the changeover yourself in your own garage, during halftime of a football game. Better resistance to pothole damage, arguably better traction in snow and ice, total cost over 3 winters of $1,550.

And at the end of 3 winters you can probably sell the rims for $50 to $75 each. What's not to like?

Thanks, but those prices do not apply in Switzerland. The mounting and balancing costs aren't a concern, thanks to contacts at the dealership that will hook it up. I do believe you are right that the 18''s would give better traction, but again, I don't want more wheels. I've still got like 8 wheels and tires from the M3 laying around. Essentially, I'd like to know what size most folks on 20''s end up using for the winter. Can the 11'' rear fit on a 275 tire? or would one have to step up to a 295 for the rears? Thanks.

Where can someone find these wheels? TIA!!

I'll keep the 215's on for the winter :D

Tire Rack

You have to be careful. If you reduce the width of the rear tire you have to adjust the front as you go. Its a 4 wheel drive so all wheels should have the same diameter.

Thanks I saw that. However, when I put in BMW X5 I don't get any hits for wheels that fit. I will give them a call.

You may not have to adjust the front. You will have to adjust the profile of the tire. by looking at the std tire equation, the profile number is a percentage of the width. If the tire width gets smaller, you i will need a larger profile to make up the difference. Example. On my 545 I have 245/35/19 on the front and 275/30/19 on the front. different widths, different profiles, same size.

That is the same setup I ran on the M3. Not sure about the 545, but going with a 285/30/19 in the rear was actually closer to the original ratios for the OEM M3 tires. Maintaining that ratio helps with the traction control system and not throwing off your speedometer.

I'm not saying I'll go with a 295 rear. I'm just trying to see what tire sizes people that run 20''s in the winter are utilizing. Basically a simple : I run 20''s in xxx/xx/20 in the front and xxx/xx/20 in the rear would suffice. Thanks.

Tirerack sells a Pirelli snow & Ice setup 315 rear and 275 front. Don't think you will notice any difference if you go from 315 to 295. Might as well stick with the original sizes if you stay on the 20"

I would agree the economics make sense. I am likely going a route very close to that, just with the factory 18" rims and a new set of 20" wheels in the spring.

My question is whether run flats or standard tires have much of an impact in winter conditions. I know the firmer sidewall impacts ride harshness; but I am curious about your experience with them in winter conditions. Any discernible pro or con with a RFT in winter.

I had RFT in winter time and I would not say the ride changed compared to other RFT in summer since the tire is designed for cold weather. I am getting the RFT's because i really don't want to be getting out of the car to change the tire in the cold if I do get a flat.

I had the Pirelli's Scorpion Snow and Ice on my E53 and those things were awesome and i drove them for 3 winters using only about 50% of the tread life on them.

I bought a set of the 20" #214 (off a X6) for my X5M for winter. Tirerack recommends 275/40/20 all around (even on the 11" rear rim). Either Blizzak or Alpines. Both options are about $210/tire.

Thanks for this information.:thumbup:

We have run NON-RFT's on both our 2007 and 2008 X5's with no problems at all. We use the factory TPMS (which need a gasket kit each time we change tires on the standard Style 210's). Both X5's have a spare, so no worries there. (Came standard on the 2007, was a $150 option on the 2008)/

We have NEVER had a flat on a snow tire, on 11 cars (and counting). Nails, yes, flats, no. Summer performance tires are another story, but never on a snow. (Prolly just jinxed myself!)

So based on my experience, I can't think of any good reason to mount RFT winter tires on an X5 (provided you have a spare). And with BMW Assist, you don't even need to get yourself dirty changing the tire.

So I contacted the dealership about winter tire recommendations today. They got back to me with the same summer size of 275f/315r. They didn't say what tire they were offering, but the quote was 3,680 swiss francs. I'm not lying, and this is just for some tires. I've done some independent searches and that quote is about 2000 more expensive than the Pirelli Ice and Snow RFTs. The dealership is having a laugh.

Anyhow, regarding the 275s on all corners, I saw that the maximum recommended width for a 275 is 10''. The rear wheel is 11''. Anyone have a comment on this?

Winter Tire and Wheel Package
 

Not knowing how much winter weather to expect in my first year in Germany, I decided to risk running on the all season standard Bridgestones. After a few "all-wheel ice skating lessons" and a greater than normal snowfall in southern Germany, I decided to use Tire Rack's recommended package this year. (In an odd bit of trans-Atlantic economics, I saved US $150 to air freight through USPS, rather than purchase the same package locally!) I have the standard, non-Sport OEM 18 inch setup.

These are Bridgestone Blizzak 255/55-18 runflats on Moda 18x8 model EB1 rims. Other than more tread noise, the dry performance has been almost identical to the standard tires on the twisty valley roads. Of course, after spending $1450 to prepare for snow, we'll probably have a mild winter!
http://whizzospace.com/misc/IMG_1234.jpg

Temperature has been dropping below 35F lately, and yesterday I put on my 18" 'winter' set - 255/55 R18 Bridgestones on OEM BMW 18" wheel (the one which comes by-default on X5)... I put 30mm spacers in the rear, no spacers in front. Looks tolerable, much softer ride.

The spacers have their own lugs - eg mount spacer on the hub with its own bolts, then mount wheel to the spacer. They have hub centric design, look very solid. My bro had same setup last winter, no issues with load etc, so hopefully they would hold.

I first installed them without spacers... Rear wheels got "lost", it looked ugly (VERY VERY ugly, I usually dont care about visuals, and was debating spacers or no spacers, but this bad look was just too much....).

Pic below.

JCL,

Thanks for your informative post! I had been considering spacers because I don't like the look of the 18" wheels with the wide flares. I've decided to forgo the spacers idea now...

I was going to have my 18" winter wheels painted a ferric grey (like my 20" summer wheels -- which I'm much happier with) or possibly even a bit darker than that (so that the small wheel size was less obvious) but haven't done that yet. Maybe next season...

. . . . Brian

I currently have the 20's but i keep my 18's rims while selling
 

the tires . I need snow tires and was thinking of getting the Bridgestone Blizzak DM-V1 255/55/18 from tirerack..The question i have is the 18's are not runflats..will i have a problem with sensors"light coming on"? I have sensors on both sets of rims. I also have the flares so would it be a hassle if i had the dealer take them off for me and then put them back on with the 20's when winter is over? Also, should i go w/ Bridgstone or Pirelli Scorpin ice/snow tire? about same price.

you are OK as long as you have a sensor in terms computer throwing error codes. HOWEVER, just remember should you get a flat, pull over and change the tire, as warning will tell you to continue driving :)