Why do dealers "punch the clock" ?
 

Interesting thing happened yesterday. First and foremost, let me say for all those in SoCal, that Crevier BMW is the biggest bunch of jerks (being polite) in the universe. I really wanted to drive the 3.5I and 3.5D again. I'm not window shopping, but really trying to decide on whether or not the new models are a better buy (I eventually got to drive them) than used variants (they are).

I waited around for about 30 minutes checking out the inventory outside. Then since no one was around, went inside only to have about 4 sales people look at me and walk right past me. I tried to stop and ask somebody but he was really not interested in speaking with me. After another 30 minutes, I went back outside and looked at the inventory again. My wife was calling me to see if I was coming home yet, and I had to replied (noone is helping me!). Finally, after an 1 hr and 20 min. I get a guy who seems like he doesn't want to help me, but decides he will. I ask him if I can drive the X5 35D. I get in and start driving, only to have him say "okay make a u-turn" after just about half a mile. "Feels great, right? so you want it?" I told him that I'd like to compare it to a 35I and he just says "why would you want that? this is the better car" He was fighting me, but I insisted. After another 30 minutes, I get into a 35I and he lets me drive TWO BLOCKS (I only got to the corner of Redhill and Edinger) until he says "okay you can see the difference, let's go back"... Really?

So I start asking him questions, I tell him I've been reading a lot on the new models, the incentives, etc. So the 35D I test drove has an MSRP of $64,125. He says the discount is the 3500 for the eco credit and 2500 for holiday cash. Period. ACTUALLY... he reminds me that Crevier adds $900 to EVERY CAR for lojack. I said, "I don't want it" - NO.. you get it. So I tell him that people are getting the car for $500-1000 over invoice BEFORE incentives. He basically says I'm full of ****, and that everyone in the world wants an X5, and that I'm lucky that they are not marking them up because of the high demand. At this point, he feels I am wasting his time (I guess I was since I am not paying $1,000 over MSRP (cuz of the lo-jack) for the car. I am now abandoned again and noone will even say hello.

Another salesperson left an inventory list in one of the cars I was looking at so I decide to take a look. I mean, it's the same list that you find on the internet so what the heck. This list, however, does show how many days a car has been on the lot and other notes. I noticed that for many of the X5s, the note is "Warranty Started 11/30/10"... which I am guessing is the clock is punched on the warranty. I AM CERTAIN, this is not something they tell the customer before he/she buys a car. Not that it is a big deal, but they should then state 47 months/ 50K miles. Why do dealers punch warranty clocks for new cars? Is there any specific reason? So if a car has been on the lot 50 days with a punched clock, wouldn't you think I'd have some bargaining leverage? Anyways, I'm not going back to Crevier. All the people keep saying is "largest volume dealer blah blah blah... get your car washed for free... " It just sucks that there must be so many buyers around here dying to pay MSRP for a car.... sorry for the long rant...

Pretty good rant, imo... :thumbup:
Dunno about the warranty stuff; I thought it was date of 'in service', as in customer takes delivery.

Maybe all those sales guys are on salary, or reading too much ego stuff
on the net. ;)

I thought I was the only invisible/uninteresting guy at any dlr...:D

Every new BMW I've leased, shows a warranty start on the lease start date.

Dealers punch the clock because they get $ back from BMW when they punch the cars. The punch date becomes the "in service" date, which is a bunch of BS if you ask me but it happens all the time.

Sorry to hijack your thread, OP, but what documentation do I need to see in order to tell when the warranty is in affect? I'm looking at a 2007 4.8 tomorrow at a dealer and I want to see what the warranty status is.

Thanks.

There are generally two reasons for the inventory to show a warranty start date.

First is if the car is a demo or staff driven. Warranty starts when the car is put in service. Those cars still show up on the inventory list. They usually aren't pretending that the cars are still new.

Second is if there are warranty claims soon after the car is received at the dealer, before it is sold. With another manufacturer I worked with (and I am assuming it can be the same with a new BMW) if a car came in and had a problem, the dealer had to start the warranty so that they could do the required repair and submit a claim to the manufacturer. The repair could be a campaign or update, for example. If the warranty wasn't started, they couldn't submit a claim. Then, when the vehicle is subsequently sold, the warranty start date was adjusted to the customer delivery date. Given that you were looking at an internal list, it is entirely reasonable that BMW has the same system.

Your warranty would be from the in-service date when you take possession.

edit: Saw the post from BCA, above, about BMW paying the dealer. That could work for any predelivery inspection or campaign work. With the other manufacturers I worked with, the manufacturer only paid up any sales rebates when the customer registration was done, and that required a customer name and address. You could put it in service for (interim) warranty purposes, but that didn't count as delivery without a name and address.

Ask the service department to run the key through their scanner, and you can get a printout.

I have leased 8 new BMWs and purchased 1 since 2004. EVERY one has shown the "in service", warranty started as the day I signed the finance papers. I personally have never bought or leased a new car (any make or model) that had the warranty already started before I signed the paperwork.

So if the X I'm looking at has 39k on the clock and has an 08/07 date on the VIN sticker, does that mean it's still under original warranty and then the CPO will start once I hit 50k? Or will the CPO start as soon as I buy the truck, if I do?

Also, it was a lease for a year and then someone bought it at 22k miles and owned it for a year and a half. Did the second owner (first buyer) still have the factory warranty or was it CPO'd back then?

It's a bit unclear how this works.

Again, OP, sorry to hijack.

Yes, good rant. And a bad experience. I wouldn't buy from that dealer, for sure.

I won't hijack anything, just a quick note.. My salesman came here from a dealer in MD (DC area). I thought "well, you must have sold a TON of cars."

"Not so.." he said.
"The competition was amazing. Eight dealers in the area. We really had to work for it."

Since my sales guy is a Spaniard, I'm more inclined to believe he wasn't making it up. I know there isn't only one in greater LA. :)

I'm no expert, but if I'm not mistaken, it's not LEGAL to start a new warranty if it hasn't been delivered to a customer. In my business, it starts when it's "FOB" (Freight On Board, i.e. shipped) which is perfectly acceptable. In the car biz, that could still work, but it would be a BIT of a problem because cars are not necessarily shipped right away - they have to load the truck up to make it worth the while, but from the date it was on the truck, it could have said to be FOB and the warranty could start.

I understand what has already been said, and yes, that's all probably true.

In particular, as JCL said, if it were already "delivered" and used as a staff car or demo, but then it would be VERY illegal if they were to sell it as NEW.

I have seen with my own eyes dealers who will clearly tell you it was a demo, etc. and then sell it as NEW. Which is still OK as long as the manufacturer's warranty STARTS on the date you take delivery. That's really all the Mann Act means in the context of something called "NEW" or "USED." Naturally, the vehicle should be priced accordingly.

You should also have a realistic expectation of the resale value on a BMW. The old "it loses a third of its value when you drive it off the lot" is not really true.

Because it's the closest I could find.. :)

From KBB I looked for a similarly equipped (all but the powertrain) 2010 35d (no 2011 listed) instead of a 35i, but with all the same options.. $59K, with 6500 miles. So it didn't lose a third, no. :)

And whether they want to punch a warranty or not, either it's sold new to you with a new manufacturer's warranty, the price needs to come down A LOT or I would try another dealer.

You're going to have to get your warranty service done at a dealer, but you'll only see them once a year, so for a NEW car, what you pay for it should probably be the overriding factor. And if you pay for NEW, get NEW.

Just my opinion.

(says the man that just took delivery on $20K of audio gear that was opened)
(but I did get a full warranty)

I've bought 4 BMW's from Brecht, now Escondido BMW in San Diego. I have never had someone treat me that way. I did walk intonGMC right down the street and look at an Escalade a while back. The salesman asked me if I "knew how much it cost". I laughed, and walked away. Got in my E92 and drove away. In today's economy the dealer should be kissing my ass. Even if people were lining up to buy the cars. I am still the customer. I've heard similar stories about Crevier. I will never shop there. You should post your experience on E90 post. They get a lot of coverage on that forum.

The CPO status starts either by the last owner who wanted the extension or by the dealer at the trade in. The CPO dates are based on the in-service date (original purchase or lease). But the new car warranty will remain in effect for its duration (the remaining 11k or thru 8/11). At that point the CPO warranty parameters kick in which go thru 100k or 8/13.

Gotcha. Thanks. Sorry for the hijack, OP. You can have your thread back. :thumbup:

"punching the clock"
 

Greetings,

I'm in the process of buying an X5 from Crevier (I would't buy from them again, more on that after I receive the car), it's supposed to go on a truck tomorrow to be transported to me in Seattle.

back to the conversation, I received the paperwork yesterday and there was a warranty declaration page that showed a warranty start date of 11/30, and the vehicle listed as a Demo. I figured I knew the reason for this, and the sales guy (if he's truthful) confirmed it. They move vehicles in to their demo fleet so that they can order more cars/get more allocation. It's a way of manipulting inventory.

Why I'm not concerned: The vehicle only has 16 miles on it, and the warranty end date is 2/28/2015 and 55,000 miles.

BMW tacks an extra 3 months and 5,000 miles on the warranty when it goes in the demo fleet.

Of course I'll verify this when I get the vehicle up here and take it to my local dealer, and if it doesn't pan out, all heck will break loose.

But for now, I'm not concerned.

Mosman

should've went straight to the GM and asked for another salesperson or buy a car from him and give him all 0's and take away his CSI bonus... that will teach him.. He won't be there for long then. ;)

Thanks for the responses. First, regarding CPOs.. yes, the CPO is based on the ORIGINAL in service date of the car. You get the balance of the 4 years 50K miles. Then tack on 2 more years to the original date for the extended warranty...

Regarding punching the clock... I guess I can understand getting more allocation or booking the sale to get the incentives from BMW. BUT... BUT... I don't believe it entails listing the car as a demo. It does not mean that there was stuff wrong with the car and they needed to punch it to get the warranty work done.. that's all BS. I'm looking at the list as we speak and there are 15 X5's on the list with warranty start date of 11/30/10. I GUARANTEE you that they are not advertising this and are selling these cars as brand new and extending out the warranty. I do think it BS since most customers won't know to look or maybe don't care. These are not demo cars, because the demo cars have "BMW NA DEMO" and a date next to it in the memo section. 2 of the cars on the list even had a warranty start date of 11/1/10. You sell these cars on Jan 1 and you've used up 4.2% of the warranty period that the customer would be entitled to. That has to be worth something.

I also confimed... I decided to go back and check the paperwork on my old Mini JCW Cooper... the clock was punched 2 months before I bought it. I didn't know that then. There is no mention of fleet demo or an extension of the warranty period. Salesperson never mentioned this to me when I purchased the vehicle. Luckily, I'm no longer in possesion of said vehicle. Me thinks that this is just a shady practice. You can go ahead and punch vehicles for allocation, incentives, etc. but they should make it a point to inform the customer prior to purchase. I know that Porsche does the same thing, but from what I've read people go into the purchase knowing this.

i tried to attach a scan of one page. hope it worked.

If you are one of the relatively few in this economy willing to shell out $60k + on a car, they should offer you a back massage while you wait to test drive. I've had good experiences at both Sterling in Newport Beach and Monrovia BMW. Josef M at Monrovia sold me my X5 and he went to about any length to make sure I was satisfied. Tell that prick at Crevier he can ram a Jag hood ornament up his a*&.

:iagree:...whether it's on the Left Coast, Gotham City area, or the Gold Coast, the '00s are over, and so is the raid the cookie jar, ramped up buying, imo.

That stinks....i bought from Chapman Camelback in Phoenix....absolute great experience...rated them all 10's on the Survey as they deserved it....there's still a few 35d's and 35i's in phoneix between chapman and north scottsdale....lookup chapman bmw on the internet....they mayhave what you're looking for and it's not that far from so cal...

Canned my deal with Crevier this afternoon, the X5 was supposed to go on a truck tomorrow. Once again, they screwed it up, which they have done every step of the way.

They honestly don't care if they have your business or not, and if they screw it up, they make no effort to do anything about it.

The latest episode was they botched the paperwork. They didn't send me something they should have, and it was going to delay the vehicle yet again.

It's a long story, but my advice is to go somewhere else. It isn't worth it.

Screw that place. If you're in the SD area, hit up Don Heine at Escondido BMW. I guarantee you that they won't treat you that way. The service dept is great too. It irritates me to know you're looking to drop over 50k on a car and have to deal with horse crap

Ironically, I got fantastic customer service when I told them to shred the paperwork, credit me my down payment, and keep the car.

They immediately credited my card, and even wrote me a check to compensate me for the fees of having all the paperwork notarized.

If they had been that attentive in the actual selling of the car, we wouldn't have had a problem.

I live in the Seattle area and don't do business with the 3 local dealers here because I thought they were too full of themselves. Crevier sets the gold standard in that department.

Go to a Land Rover Dealer, they'll take your business.

Isn't there a Land Rover chat room you can go to? I'm sure they'd like to hear from you, as we're growing tired of your posts....

I enjoy reading such posts about X5 and BMW Dealerships.

If your mom's bandwidth can handle it....here's a link you might be best suited to... Land Rover Forums : Land Rover and Range Rover Forum
;)

Interesting story... but not suprising... so were you able to confirm regarding the warranty? Do they tack on 3 months and 5K miles?

Wow, just so rude!! :stickpoke

We have purchased 4 new BMW from Hamlet Shahverdian at Bob Smith BMW in Calabasas, CA & also recommended to a "forum friend" on my 7 Series Board who purchased a new 7 Series from him & my best friend bought her X3 3.0si from him. He has been with BMW for over 15 years and is awesome. Friendly, ZERO pressure, funny, was a BMW mechanic for like 20 years...so is very informed, reliable, honest and just a great guy. Highly recommended!

The only confirmation I had was the warranty declaration page that the dealer sent me to sign. It stated an in service date of 11/30, warranty expiration of 2/28/2015 and 55,000 miles. Since I didn't buy the car, I had no way of confirming with BMW that the warranty was, in fact, extended.

I've found a similarly equipped X5 at Sonnen BMW in the bay area. They've been fantastic. There was no warranty declaration page in their paper work because it's not a demo, they haven't "punched the clock" on it.

they are one of the worst dealers here in the bay area.. stay away...

Might be worth checking the back story, the trolling, and the threads that had to be locked due to GAM30VR. He is not a contributor, but just hasn't got to the point of being banned yet.

Ahh, that makes more sense...was going to say that was way out of line as well, but given it was directed to GAM30VR, makes sense now....funny, all the forums have their "haters" that cant let it go....