Suspension Question re: Adaptive Drive
 

I know this subject can get soupy and is veeeery often misunderstood by drivers and salesmen alike..but

I have driven my friends new X5 50i which has the sport activity pack with the 20 inch wheels and no adaptive drive. It's such an improvement over our 09' 4.8i sport with the 20s (which all have adaptive drive) in terms of ride quality and he's on the OEM runflats, while I swapped in non-runflat Bridgestones - which by themselves improve the ride in the 4.8 and its still not as good as the 5.0.

BTW: adaptive drive is simply the hydraulic roll bars that stiffen up only in corners to prevent/reduce body roll without the harshness of a permanently stiff anti-roll bar(s)

So my 1st question is: Do you think that adaptive drive will impact the harness of the suspension at all? In theory it's disconnected while going straight. But will it give the ride of a stiffer suspension in a corner - meaning feeling the bumps and harsh crashes over rough pavement.

My guess is the harshness in our 4.8 is mostly due to the sport suspension, namely the shock and spring rates. The sport activity pack now offered doesn't have sport suspension which I'm guessing is why my friend's 5.0 rides so much nicer than our 4.8. But you can now order a car without sports suspension yet with adaptive drive (not possible in 2009). Would such a car ride as smoothly as an equivalent X5 without adaptive drive...?


2nd question: Am I crazy or did adaptive drive come on all X6s up to a point and now its a $3,500.00 option?

Thanks,
DRP

Did you perform a comparison on a corner? i.e. Fwy entrance ramp.

I'd suspect that an 09 w/ AD will corner better than an 11 w/o AD. I'm assuming that slight adjustments were made to the suspension for the LCI but am not certain.

My 08 w/ AD corners very well, but I can't say that It feels "harsher" when in a corner due to AD being active. That may be in your head.

I'm coming from a fully modded (suspension-wise) Infiniti G37 with coilovers, camber kits, sways, and braces. The ride in the X5 Sport with AD is "cush" compared to that. :)

I have the 50i with M Sport and Adaptive Drive, but with 19s. It rides quite soft. I read that they did redo the suspension in the 11s.

I considered getting after market 20s but just didn't want to spend the money at this time.

it should also adjust for forward and backward "dipping" such as when coming to a quick stop or accelerating. The youtube video on adaptive drive pretty much illustrates it well.

1. You cannot compare a 2,3 year old car to a new car in terms of ride and harshness. Rubber components are worn.

2. AD includes hydraulically modulated antitorsion bars AND struts. Go look at the parts on RealOEM.com Online BMW Parts Catalog if you don't believe me.

3. I would go no larger than 19" rims...unless you need larger rims to get larger calipers stuff in there to handle track duty, there is no need. For some reason consumers have been driven to 'big wheels look better' and it is really quite silly. All IMO. Tires will cost more, your handling (not ride) will suffer, and tire choices are less.

A

I think you've nailed it mate. Adaptive drive came with every sport pack X5 from 07-09. So, every adaptive drive X5 from that period had a sport damper (or at least one with EDC which becomes a sport damper in "sport mode".

So, if you equip a 2011 5.0 with adaptive drive you get the same "sport" capable dampers - which I am looking to avoid. The traditional non adjustable ones are great.

As for the handling of the 5.0 without adaptive drive, like every BMW before 2003 it leans a tad, takes a set and then you lay into the pedal. Its linear progressive and not objectively inferior to adaptive drive. It doesn't become a Benz.

Thanks for the insight,
DRP

So this was a strange thread... I thought you were looking for data on AD and what it includes...

Forget the concept of 'sport' dampers. AD has a setting called sport. BMW has a package called 'sport'. The only similarity is 5 letters. The sport setting in AD does not deliver the ride you get with 'sport dampers'.

AD as nthing to do with ride 'harshness' - it is about controlling dynamic body roll.

Kills me when people add HUD, running board and comfort access- and po-po AD as costing too much!....yeah, Im a fan

A

Here's where I disagree. This was the point of thread. BMW won't tell you as much, but based on the info. you cited, going with AD changes the dampers on the car, not just the antiroll bars. It's a heavy system and I'm confident guessing that both the springs and dampers are different on cars with AD. You'll notice on realoem that there's no pricing or part numbers for springs. It's because they need the vin so that the vehicles exact weight given it's options can be determined.

If you want the smoothest ride in an X5, don't check the AD box. Thats the conclusion you've helped me come to.

If you need to rip corners in the car (which candidly is an unrewarding experience compared to a sports sedan or sports car), then get the sport pack (which has AD) (which is what we have). But if you want a rig that rides nicer and looks sporty, get just the appearance package and no AD stand alone.

I knew this would get a little soupy.

DRP

There are obviously strong opinions with regards to AD and its benefits, but I agree with you. AD may provide less roll while maintaining a comfortable ride, however, like all similar systems, it is artificial feedback, along with added weight and complexity.

I prefer the more typical BMW handling traits of the standard suspension, which works well with 20" wheels to provide truly BMW sedan-with-sport-suspension-like handling and a firm ride. And will do so for years, since there are no electronics or hydraulics involved.

There seems to be a lot of confusion about the specifics of adaptive drive. I researched it quite a bit before I bought my X5 and concluded that, for my needs, I had to have this system. Besides, as ARD points out, I ordered HUD, running boards AND comfort access - so I'd be a fool not to get it. ;)

So let's talk about adaptive drive for a bit because it's a very interesting and cool system. Note: nearly ALL of my information is either derived or taken directly from BMW's own literature.

In the E70, Adaptive drive combines Active Roll Stabilization (ARS) and Vertical Dynamics Control (VDC).

The primary goal of these systems is to reduce lateral body roll.

Separately:

induced by cornering or by the road surface itself (bumps, gaps)."

ARS:
"The Dynamic Drive active chassis system also known as
Active Roll Stabilization (ARS) - is a revolutionary step in chassis and suspension
engineering. For the first time, the trade-off between handling/agility and comfort is
largely eliminated. This results in a new type of "driving pleasure" typical of BMW.

Dynamic Drive has two active anti-roll bars, which have a positive influence on body
roll and handling characteristics. The fundamental feature of Dynamic Drive is the
divided anti-roll bars on each axle. The two halves of the anti-roll bars are connected
by a hydraulic oscillating motor.


One half of the anti-roll bar is connected to the shaft of the oscillating motor, the
other to the housing of the oscillating motor. These active anti-roll bars control stabilizing moments:

• which reduce the reciprocal movement of the vehicle body,

• which make it possible to achieve high levels of agility and target precision

over the entire road speed range,

• and produce optimum self-steering characteristics.

During straight-ahead travel, the system improves suspension comfort because the
anti-roll bar halves are de-coupled, with the effect that the basic suspension tuning does not additionally harden when the suspension on one side is compressed."


As you can see, comfort is one important characteristic of adaptive drive. The FlexRay bus system is used in the E70 for the first time in a standard production vehicle. I found it interesting that it is capable of 10Mbps. Flexray is not owned by BMW but is part of a consortium. FlexRay - The communication system for advanced automotive control applications

First, we should keep 'elitism' out of the discussion, and in fact I apologize for bringing that in... (the whole money thing, relative values, etc) Lets just talk about the system.

I drive an E39M5 as a DD, and a modified 996TTX50 for 'fun'. I can tell you that the AD in the X5 is really extraordinary and well behaved. (One comparator is the 1991 Infitnit Q45 with their adaptive suspension.... but the other is the linear (not progressive) coilover suspension in th ePcar) The AD on the X5 is very well behaved and modulated. One may imagine that it is 'artificial' and 'interferes with the true handling'.... perhaps, but I've not felt it.

Now, is the system heavier, more 'bloated', and an additional failure risk? Absolutely.

My opinion is this: It is undeniably a better handling and better driving experience, FOR AN SUV. It also costs more to buy and maintain in the long run.

Each person needs to weigh this for themselves- but to say it is inferior I think misses the mark.

This post made me thankful that the AD is now a stand-alone option, rather then bundled with the 'sport' package.

Considering that my last BMW (E46 M3) had issues with just basic electronics (power window regulators, fuel tank sending unit), there is no way I would get involved with the complexity of AD. Especially since one of the reasons I have an X5 is for occasional use on unpaved roads.

What will we all do when BMW makes these types of suspensions standard?

Isn't that the case with the 7 series? Not sure.

Thankfully, the move towards lighter weight due to upcoming high fuel economy standards here and abroad will negate the need to control body motions of heavy vehicles through technology in future model generations. Back to basics, if you will.

Now, if we could get them to ditch the silly electronic shifter and e-brake in the process...

There is a water down appearance package without the AD (sport steering wheel, seats black trim big wheels etc...), BUT, the "sport package" which is about twice as much as the appearance package comes with the AD and stiffer baseline suspension settings. However, apparently the M sport package (another $2k over the sport package) is no different mechanically than the sport package. It just offers body kit, bespoke wheels and M trim inside.

You've really got to know your stuff with all these offerings...

I walked into my local dealer and asked about the 4.4 LCI in the month that it was hitting dealerships. He had no idea what I was talking about... "Turbo V8? You must mean the X6 sir"

Not buy another BMW unfortunately...:dunno:

I was in them for 9 years and loved them to pieces. But I had to go. The brand is moving in the wrong direction for me.

Had the 07' 550i sport. Loved it. The new 5er is like a 7 series (and about as heavy). So I personally left the brand, sadly. I imagine I'll replace my wife X5 with another BMW, but she is a different driver than I am. She likes luxury doesn't care about weight, handling nuances etc.. She's the reason the new BMWs look the way they do and weight what they do...?

I wanted a QP maserati. Too $$ new and too unreliable used. Merc and Audi offer nothing if you think BMW isn't sporty enough. So, I got a 911 and went completely to the extreme. I may look into a Panamera. Very cool car.

I was really thinking BMW was going to hit a bullseye with the new M5, after all the 2 chinks in the E60 M5's armor were poor low end torque and an annoying gearbox. Those two problems have been solved entirely. But who would have predicted a few hundred extra lbs. and bland styling!!! BMW is loosing the plot. I just wish they'd give M free reign to make the product core customers want. These days the M division is stuck modifying production trucks....:yikes:

Lets pray for clarity for the BMW board.

DRP

I agree there is a lot of confusion about the X5 suspension.

Previously there was AD or one suspension. There was no such thing as a "sport suspension"

Since I am not buying one, I am not tracking this issue, but for some while people thought there actually was a "sport suspension"... recently I've seen nothing to indicate there is anything other than two suspensions offered in the US: AD and convention, with or without leveling. You need to look at order codes and not BMW marketing talk.

A

I have seen no evidence that the 'Sport Suspension' (Adaptive Drive) is stiffer than the standard suspension; if anything, it appears to boast a more compliant ride.

A 'Sport Suspension' that consists of technology designed to filter vehicle responses to road surfaces and steering inputs is pure BMW marketing speak. To your point in another post, I agree that this is not what BMW used to be. I also left BMW for Porsche when it comes to 'fun' vehicles. My issue with the upcoming M-cars is that the powertrains will now be simply more powerful versions of the standard cars, and no longer special or unique. Larger and heavier are issues as well. (Otherwise, I quite like the new 5-series from a design standpoint.)

I believe the operating words there are "offered in the US". Back in November, when I was sorting through the suspension options for my X5d order, I seem to recall seeing an order code for a sport suspension that is NOT Adaptive Drive, and is NOT offered in the US.

Right. The "sport suspension delete" thing is a vestige of the "Sport Package" that used to include AD by default.

To have AD in the package it must delete the standard (ie the sport) suspension. From 2007 to 2009, selecting the SPort Package gave you AD which means the regular sport suspension was deleted. (this was an internal code, no something one selected)

When BMW hacked apart the options and separated AD from the Sport package, there was this strange and awkward "sport suspension delete" thing that just hung there. Confusion abounded. So then, in infinite wisdom, they turned that into some kind of 'check box' that toggles with AD..and it makes ZERO sense! You can order the Sport with either AD or the regular suspension...but the indicator of "I want just the regular suspension" is to show "sport suspension delete" which actually now means the opposite!!

Stunning bit of website programming.

Actually the M Sport Pack includes Adaptive Drive.

I had adaptive drive on my 07 w/ 19's and I also have it on my 11 with 20's. I can say that on my 07, you could tell if you had the "sport button" on. I tested this many times on the same route many times. You can feel more irregularities in the road much more when you had the sport button on. My wife could tell if I had it on without even looking to see if it was no. It has been 45+/- days since I have seen my 11 with AD(At the dealer for issues) and cannot remember if i could tell the difference when I had the sport button on but then again I have 20's now. If and when I get my car back I can update.

So in the sport pack… what makes the car "sportier" execpt the AD? And it also mentiones sport suspension delete? What does the delete mean?

The "sport pack" has nothing to do with suspension.

The "M Sport pack" adds AD.

Seem my comments about the whole 'sport delete confusion'.

When in doubt, look at real oem and the part descriptors. Dealers are confused, BMW is confused.

45 days! :wow: what happened?