Anyone have their 35i die repeatedly on the same day?
 

Hey guys, just wondering if anyone else has experienced the problems my wife's 2011 X5 35i is having? (It has ~4K miles on it and is 8 months old)

Last week she was driving to work and multiple times when the engine was getting low in the RPM range, like when idling at a stop light, the car completely dies. Engine stalls, power steering locks up. She has to put the truck in park, restart the car, put it in drive and then drive off. I happened 5+ times in 2 hours, once while she was pulling into a parking lot leaving her stuck in on coming traffic. NOT COOL, especially if my son would have been in his car seat in the back and she had been hit...

She made it to our dealer, stalling as she pulled into the lot (nice touch :confused:). They have had the car since Friday and have told us they have not been able to reproduce the problem (surprise...) but there are several error codes present upon interrogation which they did not expect given the problems we described. They have forwarded the problem on to the "BMW field service engineers" who think it is a "problem with the engine computer".

Any thoughts? Suggestions?

Thanks
X

Let them work through it. It is why you have a warranty. Hopefully they provided a decent loaner vehicle.

Wouldn't hurt to keep a record of the days it has been off the road in case the repair gets dragged out.

Couple of coments...

Find out precisely what codes were found and what tests were done. Demand that these be in writing in the work order/service report... Tell them you don't mind if it takes a page or two. Refuse to sign off on the warranty unless the do.

Why?

It keeps them honest and sends a message that they are being watched.

They've opened a 'PUMA' case. This means the tech is no longer calling shots, but rather the idiots back east.... This can be good and bad- if you local tech and service manager are proactive and PUSH them, they can get help... But if the local guys just shrug and say 'just do what they say when they get back to us' it can be bad.

Not much to do other than being engaged and attentive. If the dealer is doing their job, but you still have difficulties, make it known to the local dealer you are pissed but you will not burn them... When crap happens and you've treated the dealer well, they can be a great ally. (I'm doing a buyback now, with great help from the dealer..)

Anyway, hope it all works out- usually does.

A

Ps m5board?

Thanks for the advice guys. Here is the update so far.

A PUMA case was opened, then it was pushed up to national level (so they say). Some additional diagnostic device was hooked up to the truck to try and capture data when the it actually stalls.This happened, they forwarded the info to BMW NA and were instructed to replace the high pressure fuel pump....I was a little miffed by this since the symptoms don't really fit a HPFP failure as I am a former e90 N54 owner and have had a few friends need theirs replaced.

THe HPFP was replaced and guess what? It still stalls...
BMW NA has now authorized replacement of the DME computer. This was special ordered and will be at the dealer either late Friday afternoon or Monday.

So far they have had the car 2 weeks as of tomorrow, they have reporduced the problem multiple times with and without diagnostic equipment attached and replaced one item...

They have been pretty communicative so far, but just frustrated at how long it has taken.

Thanks,
X

PS A, have hung out on the M5board, but not a contributor. Dream about an M5 one day...

Well, sounds like they are doing the best they can- recognize that the dealer/tech is kinda at the mercy of the engineers once it is a PUMA case. BMW is currently taking A LOT of heat about some of the new software/emissions stuff.

I'm lemoning my diesel in the next few weeks. 70 days in the shop, figured it was a good opportunity to upgrade to a 2012 for not much $$$.

Hope they figure it out-

A

PS I thought your name looked familiar....

Thanks for the info...and good luck with your upgrade!

Here is an update so far...they replaced the DME computer early this week which did not fix the problem. More diagnostic tests BMW NA wanted run, then the had them replace the throttle body which happened today...guess what...that didn't fix the problem either. Now they are telling the dealer to replace "several relays".

So all in all, they have had the car now for 3 weeks, replaced the HPFP, DME and the throttle body and still can't keep the car from stalling. 3 parts, 3 weeks, no fix. Getting very frustrated as of now. Can't blame the dealer too much since they are being very communicative with me, but am very frustrated with the whole PUMA process as this is taking forever due to the communication time gap that it adds to the process.

Does anyone have any suggestions on someone/or an office to contact at BMW of NA to make my discontent know? I own 2 2011 X5s and if this continues to go as it has for the last three weeks, these will likely be my last X5s. Love the trucks but can't really accept this is how they deal with problems...:confused:

Thanks

X now vented...

1. Read and understand the lemon law in your state. It will likely have something about 'written notice'...do not make the mistake that an email or phone call will meet this statutory requirement.

There is a reason to do this: evevryone calls. everyone sends emails. Someone sending a letter, certified return receipt means business- they've entered 'the path'.

Once you know the law in your state, craft a letter that paints a clear picture that the situation is [at or near] a lemon claim... they MAY try to get in front of it- and they will do this if you do not formally request a lemon buyback.

I can give you a name, but better to call and speak to them- tell them you have a buyback/lemon issue and they SHOULD give you to one of the senior people. Get their fax. Send the letter this person, "certified return receipt with a fax copy"..this way you get the impact of paper, with the immediacy of fax.

GL

A

Thanks Ard, I may PM you to get that info...

Here is the update so far.

Dealer has had the car now for 4 weeks and 1 day. Since my last post they have replaced several electrical relays which did not fix the problem, but when the truck stalled again, it went into limp mode which it had not done before and threw a hard code into memory. The dealer read the code which indicated the crank shaft position was faulty.

They felt this was some progress since no useful codes had been thrown so far which was one reason this was a PUMA case. They ordered the crank shaft sensor and got the truck ready to have it replaced (I guess it is an involved install). After it was replaced, instead of fixing the problem, it actually made it very difficult to start the car! BMW NA now wants the sensor replaced again to make sure it wasn't bad out of the box. If the sensor isn't bad, then they have been instructed to replace the reluctor ring sensor (sp?) which is on the fly wheel. This will be an even more time consuming install/fix since they have to drop the tranny to get to the fly wheel.

All-in-all, this will put us mid next week at the earliest or potentially into the week after for a fix. This will be well beyond the 30 days in the shop Ohio law requires for a lemon.

I have been speaking with the service manager and he has started the ball rolling with BMW NA for a buy back situation which out too much pressure from me which is nice. I have been trying to be as nice as possible during this situation understanding that which my service department may be doing the repairs, the ship is being steered by BMW NA.

I briefly spoke with the sales manager yesterday as well and while he told me he needs to speak with BMW NA on Tuesday, he thinks what will happen is a substitution situation. He orders me a new truck built very similar to our truck and it is substituted for our current truck in the lease. They essentially just change the VIN number on the lease and we finish out our lease terms with the new 2012 truck instead of the POS 2011.

I may see if we can alter the interior color or add a few options but I think I am ok with that option. It gets us back into a truck we like fairly quickly and we don't have to sign another 3 year lease.

Thoughts?

X

This is great information for me as I have been having repair issues with my 2011 35d.

Here is the situation..

July 26: Took car in for SRS error on passenger side. They found a faulty sensor for passenger seat occupancy. They indicated they had to order the part from Germany and could take a while. I asked if the car was safe to drive given SRS error and SA stated "not sure" so I told them I would not have my wife drive this car with that error because in the event she had an accident with one of my kids in that seat and airbag didn't deploy, I would sue them to no end. They provided me a loaner on the 29th until part came in and fix was in place.

August 16 (11 business days later): The part came in and car was turned back over to us.

Summary: I didn't like the communications I received (or didn't receive unless I called for an update) so I decided this was the last time I would take car to this dealer for service.

August 26: Car received check engine light (yellow engine icon) so I called other dealership and stated I bought vehicle at competing dealership and wanted to bring x5 to them for service. They were very receptive.

August 29th (earliest appt. to get a loaner: Brought car in they checked the fault codes and found NOX sensor faulty. They had to order part and turned car over to us on Tuesday August 30th (2 business days) after the weekend.

August 31: Same check engine light came on again as wife was driving kids to school. I called my SA and he said bring it right in and they'll check it out. When I arrived SA told me they were short 1 tech today and that he would call me tomorrow (September 1st). He called, as committed, and said he had good news and okay news. Good news is they believe they have isolated the issue to a wiring fault that keeps grounding/shorting thus the error. Okay news (to him at least) is that they have to take the entire dash out to get to the wiring harness and trace the faulty wire and fix or replace it. :wow: The SA said he would call me on Tuesday September 6th (after holiday) and I also told him I am not a happy camper and that I do not want to have to deal with squeeks or rattles because they did not replace the dash properly etc. I acknowledged they are probably doing their best but for a 6 month old vehicle to have to go through this extreme of a repair seems like it must be a lemon.

Summary: I am now in wait and see mode for when they say it is fixed and will be watching/listening for ANY change to the build quality and quietness of the vehicle. Needless to say that right now I am in pucker mode but also doing research on the Colorado lemon laws (30 days in the shop in a year's period). The wife is not a happy camper (thus I'm not either). The SA has been VERY communicative (unlike other dealer) and supportive/sympathetic to my plight. When I talk to him on Tuesday I will request a meeting with the service manager when I pick up just to get a first hand accounting of what they actually did and make sure it is 100% documented on the work order.

Just looking for maybe something I missed or can do better when I deal with them again. This dealer has been very responsive and SA is great to work with. I just don't know if I really have something to worry about or is this nothing compared to other issues dealt with.

Thanks in advance for the feedback.

On a lease I am of the (personal) opinion that it really doesnt matter much- you'll be out of the car before the warranty is up. You are trading from one known to an unknown.

If you can do an even-up trade, sure I guess.

(Sounds like you've handled the dealer well, and not 'burned' them- hence they are willing to go to bat.)

Alvam- i'd love to hear the technical details on how a NOX sensor CEL is related to a ground fault in the dash... that seems to be a really tricky thing to diagnose. (You said "same check engine light"... there is only one CEL, and 1000 possible faults that can cause it to come on..is it the same fault or you are just saying 'same light'?)

Finally, everyone should be aware of how their state law defines a 'defect' and when the 'clock' starts. You can have 5 CELs, all for different reasons- how your state law defines the defect which determines the buyback amount is important. (I was lucky that my very first CEL was the same issues as the last which took 4 weeks. There were 20k+ miles in between these...the buyback amount goes back to the very first event.)

A

PS It's not a truck...at least to people with real trucks. ;)

The details from the first work order are as follows:
Daignose check engine light; Verified complaint. Checked faults. found several faults with SCR system (4BF0, 4926, 4B3A, 4749&46F2) Ran directed test plans. Per team leader, diagnosis found NOX Sensor fault. Corrected: R/R Post Cat Nitro-Oxide Sensor.
Installed 13628511666; Sensor for NOX Qty 1
Installed 61 13 1 377 134: Cable Strap Qty 4
Installed 61 13 1 367 599: Cable Strap Qty 1

Replaced NOX sensor for SCR system after catalytic converter. Peformed system calibration and activation. cleared faults. test drove

A - I am not sure how they came up with the ground fault error in the wiring harness diagnosis but when I talked to the SA I asked him who worked on my vehicle and he indicated one of their Master Technicians and the Shop Foreman did all the work. He said it is their policy that only senior folks work on repeat issues (who knows if that's true). When I did a search on these fault codes I found some good diagrams on the SCR system in general but still can't reconcile in my mind how they came to this conclusion. That's why I asked for a meeting with the Service Manager to see how this all came about. I have not seen the latest diagnosis work order so I can't confirm what codes they found on the repeat visit.

:dunno:

It's referred to as a "collateral exchange." I had this experience with our X3 several years ago. An additional benefit in this situation b/c you are leasing, is that when your lease expires, you will actually have equity in the 2012 X b/c the residual was based on the 2011 X. As you a result, you can sell the 2012 and make a profit. We did this with our X3 :thumbup:

Interesting! I had not thought of that aspect of the exchange...:thumbup:

So if I understand correctly, the residual value on my lease in Novemeber of 2010 for a 2011 X5 will now apply to my new 2012 with 6K less miles as of now? I am guessing I have to purchase it at lease termination for the residual value and then resell it or keep it.

Thanks for the clarification,
X

Final update:

My dealer has proactively agreed to a collateral exchange and has ordered a 2012 X5 35i nearly identicle to the one we have had the problem with. They are letting us change the interior color and are trying to add HUD to the car so the price of the car/truck ;) is the same as the 2011 it will be replacing (so yea for that).

They finally "fixed" our X5 by replacing the refluctor ring sensor which is a sensor on the fly wheel and I am now driving the "lemoned" truck till the enw truck arrives as it is much roomier and has more ammenities than the stipped 328 loaner we have had. My wife wants no part of the truck so she is driving mine and I get hers, but that is fine by me.

Overall, my dealer and service center have been very good to work with and while I am not happy to have been our of our truck for a month, I am as happy as I can be with how it has been handled.

Good luck to alvam with his issues.

X

I must have missed this post as out here in PA we are dealing with crazy flooding rains...
Yes, the residual stays the same. The only thing that changes is the VIN and you will sign some additional paperwork. And yes, you now have 6k "free" miles since you can still turn in the 2012 with 36k miles (if that was your original lease term).
With regards to selling the 2012 when your lease matures, PM me and I can tell you how it worked for me.

I'm surprised they "fixed" the 2011 and still providing a collateral exchange. Plus you are allowed to drive it in the interim!

Final Update:
The shop foreman and team leader in the service department is to (prior to ripping the dash apart) said they did another thorough analysis and found that they ordered the wrong part. They replaced the rear NOX sensor and it was the FRONT NOX sensor that was faulty. They ordered part and replaced it and all has been great since yesterday. I was sort of pissed that this was missed but I was thankful for the extra follow through and the fact that they didn't have to rip apart my wifes baby. That freaked me out. So all appears to be good. THX

Huh, Shocker eh?

Looking at this from 50,000 feet...one might say they 'you shouldn't have to manage your own car repairs'...that BMW should do it through their network- but on the other hand, life is short, why deal with this passively? Tell them what you want, spend a bit of time making sure people are not Fing up, and at the end of the day maybe you have a bit of control over your own destiny.

Nice work alvam

A