why is Adaptive Drive so rare?
 

seems like everyone loves it, but I've yet to find a used 2011-2012 anywhere in the US with this option? I wrote the dealers to make sure it wasn't an error, and none of the cars have the AD option. and these are fully loaded, every other option on the car?

Because it used to be part of the sport package, and now its not. People don't want to pay $3500 for something they can't see.

$3500 is a pretty expensive option for an already well-handling vehicle. I think it's worth it, but most folks probably won't, especially when the description "sounds" like a rougher ride.

I'm on the fence about it (I have it in mine) and I don't think I would buy it again

Cost vs value, it is just overpriced to most people for what you get, like a lot of other options. A lot of other things were more important to me and maybe if it was $1000 it would be more ordered!

once you get used to it (i had it on my 2008 with sports package), you can't leave (or corner well) without it... You WILL feel the lean in high-speed cornering.

However, if you dont take sharp turn and overall a "mellow" driver, then you dont need it!

The unfortunate thing is that in earlier years one could get a sports pkg with adaptive drive for less than if you separately order them now. BMW is essentially making more money on the sports pkg now and once people pay for the sports pkg they don't want to pay an extra bundle for something they cannot really associate a value to. I personally have it and I will not buy another X5 without it. I have been a passenger in a non-sports pkg X5 and it's ride was noticeably rougher than mine with sports pkg with adaptive drive. That alone would be more than enough for most people not to mention the handling improvements.

I wouldn't order another X5 without it.

So the consensus is not to get one without AD, yet they are impossible to find, doh!

As far as the sport package, seems like the "sport suspension delete" option is common, do you all have sport with/without sport suspension?

Drive both, decide if it makes a difference to you or not. I drove one with it and enjoyed the difference. Some people can't tell the difference, some can.

Not necessarily; I think the ride/handling is great with the 'standard' suspension and 20" wheels. Ride is on the stiff side, which some may not like, but it has very well controlled body motions, like a BMW sedan. Personally, I don't like any of the 'active' roll control systems, which IMO provide artificial feedback. I like to know what the suspension is doing.

Sport Suspension = Adaptive Drive. In recent years, if you ordered the Sport Package but don't want Adaptive Drive, you select Sport Suspension Delete. For non-Sport Package vehicles, Adaptive Drive is a stand-alone option.

So my 2007 4.8 w/ sport package has AD?

Sport suspension does NOT equal Adaptive Drive. Sport suspension has historically not been available in the US until recently (05/2011 production) as the default choice for the M sportpaket.

To answer the question: average Americans aren't informed about their car purchases. This especially applies to options and features. To make an in-stock car $3500 more expensive for a feature that is hard to appreciate on a test drive is a tough sell. Sat nav? Tangible. Comfort seats? Tangible. Adaptive Drive? Not so much.

Dealers need to sell the options that will sell the quickest. They're not there to equip vehicles with features that educate consumers, unfortunately. This is different from most other countries, but that's just how the American market works.

Ah, I see. I suppose you're also an expert in quantum physics? :stickpoke:p:

An earlier post had said that it was part of sports package. That might be applicable now but was not in 2008.

For my 2008 X5 4.8i, Adaptive Drive was separate to the Sports Package. I've never regretted the purchase of either. I would definitely recommend Adaptive Drive...

AznX... was correct that the dealers are not informed. They tried to talk me out of Adaptive Drive as they did not think it was necessary (but it was obvious that they did not even know what it is!).

EDIT: My comments about Adaptive Drive are incorrect. I was referring to "Active Steering"...

Pre-2010 production X5 with Sports Package included Adaptive Drive. This is fairly easy to identify if you have the Adaptive Drive, if you do then there should be a button for enabling Sport Mode right next to the gear shift. For 2010 and newer model years Sports Pkg and Adaptive Drive were separated with Adaptive Drive a $3500 option. As folks have said, for an uninformed prospective customer it is an intangible option and a tough sell especially in this economy, hence the dealers don't usually order it. I could see the change myself between 2008 and 2009. I bought mine in 2008 when there were a lot of incentives to move the existing inventory and I saw a lot of fully loaded X5s. My colleague bought his in 2009 and there were far fewer fully loaded X5s. BMW has also progressively increased the price of the X5 and I think to increase margins they have separated out the AD from Sports Pkg, which gives them more options to sell while creating an illusion of lower price for a similarly optioned earlier model year X5.

^ fully agree with Jeep on what's been happening. Brian I believe all '08s had a simple option of sports pkg (with AD, seats, steering wheel, black headliner) for $3500 vs. no sports pkg. 4.8i's had the option to get the 20" summer wheel upgrade (and flares) on top of that. I also recall that all 4.8s back then without sport pkg were given a chrome trim around the windows instead. It was only about 2 years ago that they split AD from sport pkg (and further diluted the sport pkg options) and people here were remarking that now that they've got people hooked, they're finally pricing it separately for margins. And if I recall correctly, 2011s finally saw the E70 sold by the restrictive trim levels (base, premium, and sport - with AD as standalone) that they are now. I honestly don't know how salesman can keep up with these variations across every BMW model. In other words, don't trust what they tell you until they put it in the system. :D

And the other day I got a shuttle back home with a '09 3.0 without sport pkg (could tell because the of the plain steering wheel, and no sport button next to shifter, so no adaptive drive) and it didn't feel all that different from my '08 3.0 with sport pkg when taking a hairpin on-ramp. Like someone said, already handles well. Either that or my AD isn't working all this time. :D

I wouldn't pay $3500 separately for AD at this point. Just watched a motor trend 2011 SUV of the year video (Cayenne won BTW), where they mentioned the X5 is probably the best handling of the bunch, and who knows if the test vehicle even had the separate AD option.

Yes. AD was part of the Sport Package until 2010.

Sorry, my bad. In my earlier post, I said Adaptive Drive.

I meant the "Active Steering" option!! The full name of the option was "Active Steering w/Servotronic Power Assist". MSRP for that option was $1,400.

Adaptive Drive was not listed as such but the Sports Package did include "Active Roll Stabilization & Elec. Damping Control".

The OP is in Chicago, so it is safe to say he/she is referring to US market vehicles. When an X5 here has the "sport suspension delete" option, it is referring to a vehicle with Sport Activity Package, but without Adaptive Drive. There was a time that this is how it had to be ordered. It does seem that BMW has made an effort to make this more simple by makng Adaptive Drive as a stand-alone option on all models, however this was not always the case.

Is the "sport suspension" on the M Sport Package without Adaptive Drive truly different than other current X5s? I doubt it, but if you have an indication otherwise, would like to know for sure.

During a test drive:

Me: Does this have adaptive drive?
Salesguy: What's that?
Me: It's the adaptive suspension.
Salesguy: I don't know what that is, I'll check the sticker when we stop

OP asks "why is this rare?"

1. It takes a discerning and motivated owner to ORDER the adaptive drive. This type of owner is not selling a 1,2 year old car....

2. The cars being sold are short term buyers, lease cars- maybe casual buyers...NO DEALER EVER ORDERS ADAPTIVE DRIVE TO SELL OF THE LOT...EVER. Salesmen look at $3500 and say "the wife cannot see this.... I cannot keep the key in the pocket and say 'how cool is that' like I can with Comfort Access".

My 2 cents...without commenting on the obvious value of AD.

:)

A

Because the sport suspension is a new 2012 introduction to the X5 in the US, I haven't sampled it. However, it has been in other markets since 2007. It probably behaves like other BMW sport suspensions in the 3er- firmer ride with more aggressive spring rates (but no ride height lowering on the X-series). It is not an electronic-heavy, fancy sway bar item like Adaptive Drive.

I explained the reasons for the nomenclature in the US in this post awhile back. Basically, the Sport Activity Package is a sport package without sport suspension. The 35i Sport Activity model is essentially a 35i with the Sport package but with the firmer suspension deleted. It's all tied to factory logistics and marketing decisions.

It's worth noting that if one orders the Adaptive Drive in conjunction with M sportpaket, the cost of AD is lower.

For those who want to "learn by doing", go to BMW UK | Homepage and build an X5. Select "Dynamic Package" for the SE model: the default is Sport Suspension, but there is a deletion option as well. The M sport model is identical: Sport suspension is included as default, the deletion option is N/C.

I've actually been looking for adaptive drive ("AD") on a used 2010/2011 also... experience has shown that it's almost never listed in the options, but you'll see that sport button next to the shifter when you look at the pictures online. Amazing that a dealer has a car with a $3,500 option and they don't even bother to list it. Sun Motors in central PA is a prime example, they have several 2011's in their used section with AD and it's not even listed in the options.

I didn't think AD had a button? Hence the term adaptive? If the button thing is inaccurate, how can you tell which cars have AD? I found one car with literally every possible option, but dealer says no AD. Why someone would order leather dash, lane change warning, etc but no AD makes no sense. But a dealer not knowing the option was there makes even less sense.

If you build a new one on bmwusa, you can see the sport button appear in the picture when you select the Adaptive Drive option...

sport button is for suspension stiffness, not adaptive drive, which is always on. In recent years it has gotten a bit more complex as far as choosing options so I'm a bit lost myself. But if you go build a 35i sport activity, you'll see sport suspension is checked while adaptive drive remains an option. I believe you'd still get the sport button there. There's also a way to do the sport suspension delete... like I said, way too complicated these days.

To add to the confusion, if you look at the ordering and pricing guide for the 2012 X5, even the XDrive35i sport activity vehicle (model 12XH) has the sport suspension deleted as standard. Adding package ZMP (M sport package) gives option 226 sport suspension, but this is the only way that I know of to get the 226 sport suspension. For a while I thought BMW considered the adaptive drive to be the sport suspension, but now I don't know. I do know that choosing the adaptive drive on the BMW "build your X5" web configurator unchecks the sport suspension option.

Can anyone post a picture of what the adaptive drive button looks like? Is it actually only present with models that have adaptive drive? I'm looking at used cars at the moment and I get the feeling it's not always listed by indy dealers (or even BMW ones, they often miss out things in the specs) so it'd be great if there's something I could spot. Having never driven a car with adaptive drive, I'm not too worried but if I see one with it then I'll feel like the car is worth a little extra if you see what I mean.

so if all you need to do is press a button to turn off sport suspension, why do people choose "sport suspension delete?"

Ok, I managed to answer my own question. If there is a button present directly below the shifter then the car has Adaptive Drive. See the 2007 X5 Owner's Manual here: http://cache.bmwusa.com/PDF_6cc05348...7-732719793466

The button (labelled number 21 on page 14) is for 'Adaptive Drive'. According to page 86, Adaptive Drive is always on but it can be set to either Sport mode (LED in button lights up) or Normal mode. So there is a physical giveaway if a car has Adaptive Drive or not - look for the button.

No, you are confusing "sport mode" with "sport suspension".

In the USA, at least up to 2012, everyone 'got' the sport suspension delete- so there were two falvors: Adaptive Drive or Stock Suspension.

To further confuse matters, the "Sport PACKAGE" used to include AD. In 2010 they renamed it "Sport Activity Package", reduced the price by $3500, and made AD a $3500 stand alone option.

There is a simple button directly 'behind' the gearshift selector, that says 'sport' with an LED:

http://www.xoutpost.com/attachment.p...1&d=1313975905

AD is on ALL THE TIME. When you press sport and the light comes on the suspension stiffens slightly.

But you can never turn it off, it is always active.

A

So adaptive drive always has a sport (tight) suspension option and does not have the "deleted" suspension? And if that button is behind the shifter, the car for sure has AD?

Correct.

Nomenclature.

You are not getting this... the "sport suspension" is a package called "SA226"..this is the sport suspension.

The AD does not have SA226.

Up to 2012, NO US CAR HAD SA226. All had sport suspension delete.

The AD feature is an entirely different suspension unrelated to other packages BMW may ship- and it has two modes, standard and sport.

(Now, if someone knows the spring rates and damper coefficients used in the AD and can compare those to the standard suspension and the SA226 package then we might be able to say they are the same...)

AFAIK, the button equals AD. But why not get the VIN and have the dealer run the configuration for you? Not service history, just new order configuration....

You are correct, for US models. AD was originally part of the 'sport package', and it still was later when re-named 'sport activity package'. However, for $3,500 less, there was a "sport suspension delete" sub-option to eliminate AD from the 'sport activity package'.

This is partially correct- my understanding:

You are correct, for US models. AD was originally part of the 'sport package', and it still was later when re-named 'sport activity package'. However, for $3,500 less.

In addition, the "Sport activity" package got the SA266 sport suspension (bit stiffer) ...however all US models got the mandatory "sport suspension delete" sub-option to eliminate this sport suspension from the 'sport activity package' as it was felt the US market would not like this.

Again, my understanding.

You are making a confusing issue even more so by bringing up non-US models, codes on build sheets that people will likely never see, etc.

I cannot speak for all models and all model years. What I do know is that on my 2011 (November 2010 build) 35d, when the 'Sport Activity Package' option was selected, it included AD. There was a 'sport suspension delete' sub-option to delete AD for $3,500 less in both the 'Build Your Own' section on BMW.com, as well the dealer order system. Because there were only two suspensions available, standard and AD, it did appear that BMW NA was equating AD with sport suspension. I believe this is what the OP is referring to towards the beginning of this thread.

Perhaps in other parts of the world a 'Sport Activity Package' vehicle without either AD or 226 (sport suspension, non-Adaptive, not available at the time) would be 'sport suspension delete', hence the confusing name of the sub-option once offered here in the US. Regardless, AD is now a stand-alone option.

Uh, I don't think I am confusing the issue. Sorry if it is a complex issue, but the BMW ERP system configures cars for worldwide production- you see vestiges of this reality in the various order options.

You are flat out wrong that 'sport suspension delete' is "AD delete".

BMW reconfigured the package to take AD out of the sport package-true. However you are assuming this is what the "delete" is referencing...

But in ROW the sport package gets a sport suspension...in the USA it gets "sport delete".

Configure a car in the UK with the Sport Activity package (without AD) and you will see no automatic "sport delete" in 2010 and 2011.

rode again in a non-sport X5 shuttle vehicle... don't bother with AD unless you're throwing it around corners at 60mph+. ;)

But some of us do that with some frequency.....:nanana:

I think everyone has a different background and expectations. Based on the rural, two-lane hilly roads in central Virginia, the standard X5 feels cumbersome and floats over crests. I guess if one drives below the speed limit (55mph by default statewide) it's less of an issue but my default speed, as it is in Germany, is 100km/h or 62mph on all rural stretches and I really don't slow down for natural bends or dips in the road. I don't like excess float or slack, ever.

And yes, I do check the tire pressures. Of course this isn't my problem either......its my parents' issue. Just my €0,02 though.

around here on normal roads, the biggest bends are highway onramps and someone's always in front. Blah. :thumbdown

Obviously, if you're interested in AD, it's best to drive a car that has it. That was easier with the 2011 models because the MSport models included AD. If you could locate one of those, you were beauty.

In 2012, MSport doesn't include AD anymore, right? However, it does have a sport suspension. So you can at least try out the regular and sport suspensions on the dealer lot. If you're thinking to yourself 'hey, I think that my suspension could do more for me', go for the AD. Otherwise, save the coin and buy some diamonds (hey, I'm a girl).

When I test drove the 2011 e71s, I HATED the regular suspension. All squshy and bouncy. My SA put me in an MSport to try and I thought: 'yes, this is how this car should drive'. I added AD to my 35d. I suspect that I had something against the normal suspension because I was coming out of an x5 e53 sport that is so stiff it'll make your teeth break (and I loved it). There are probably those coming out of 'softer driving' cars that wouldn't have the same reaction that I did. M3 or M5? Probably so.

"Flat out wrong"? Hardly. The context of this thread is used E70s in the US market. Two suspensions have been offered - (1) Adaptive Drive, and (2) 'normal', which was also identified as 'sport suspension delete' when selected with the 'sport activity package' in lieu of standard Adaptive Drive in 2011. So, yes, 'sport suspension delete' does delete Adaptive Drive.

The semantics on why the 'normal' suspension is called 'sport suspension delete' in reference to the BMW ERP may be interesting to some, but largely irrelevant since there were no other suspension configurations available in the US.

Why is this thread so contentious when the OP asked a simple question. Adaptive drive is rare because it costs so damn much.

Alan, I'm sorry but I have to disagree with your statement that SA 225 deletes AD. Let me explain - and I don't mean this to create any additional tension but rather just informative.

I'll use a 2011 X5d as an example since this is when they had the sport suspension delete in place.

If you ordered a bone stock 2011 X5d you would get the following:

Front shocks: 31326781918 with a 27mm front sway bar and spring part number 31 33 6 778 114

Rear shocks: 33526781921/2 with a 21mm rear sway bar and spring part number 33 53 6 779 861. Note, this assumes no self leveling suspension and also note that spring part numbers usually change by one digit at a time depending on options.

If your SA checked off option ZAP (Sport Activity Package) BMW NA forced out what the rest of the world got which is the sport suspension option SA226. This is SA225 known as Sport Suspension Delete.

SA226 would have gotten you different shocks, springs and a 23mm rear sway bar. It appears the front sway bar stayed the same.

Adaptive drive, option 2VA was a standalone option and is the only way at that time to get a "sportier" suspension. I do not know wwhether or not you could have ordered SA226 as a special order.

On the 35i Sport Activity there was no ZAP option package but SA225 was part of the "standard" equipment list and ZMP M Sport Package added 2VA automatically. On the 50i either ZAP or ZMP were available which did the same as outlined above for each one of those options and additionally 2VA was available as a standalone option too.

See the attached order sheets that my dealer gave me back then for reference. Don't ask me why I saved them. :yikes:

HTH

As I said before ad nauseum, this was not the case when I ordered my 2011 X5d.

ZAP included 2VA at the time. This was true on both the dealer order guide and on the "Build Your Own" on BMWUSA.com. Selecting SA225 ('sport suspension delete') on both the dealer order guide and BMWUSA.com website deleted 2VA (Adaptive Drive).

I am well aware of the order guide, package codes, option codes, etc. I went through them all prior to ordering my vehicle in an attempt to push some options through that were not officially available. I understand the semantics of the suspension options available here and abroad. No need to educate me, thanks.

Tired of repeating myself. Believe what I am telling you or not; it really makes no difference to me. Moving on...

False. Someone else other than you or I can comment- since you've 'moved on'

In 2010 the ZAP package dropped 2VA. 2VA was, in 2010 and 2011, only a 'stand alone' option...the 'sport delete' was unrelated to 2VA. You wish to believeotherwise, fine.

People Outside the US market who ordered ZAP got the sport suspension. In the US market you got 225, no choice.

There is an erroneous fairytale that the 'sport delete' is how bmw removed the AD from the sport package- this is simply wrong. We know- FOR A FACT- that the 'sport suspension' is (i think) SA226...and that BMW excluded this from the US market with the "sport delete" option.

Credit to AZMpower32:
http://www.xoutpost.com/791539-post8.html

:popcorn:

I should send this thread to BMWNA and show them their plan to confuse everyone worked. It's a miracle the salesmen can keep any of this in line.