Lowering an X5 5.0: Eibach or H&R?
 

Been reading up lately, have an '11 X5 5.0 sport (non-M) that BMWNA was kind enough to delete the sport suspension off of :banghead:

The handling is noticeably inferior so it must be addressed. I do not want to go with the extreme drop (2"+) kits, just the mild ~1.2" setup as I want the OE shocks to remain happy. Tirerack sells all of these setups, so which is the way to go? It will NOT be tracked, it is a daily driver that needs better handling while still maintaining close to factory/good ride quality.

Thanks for the insight.

I have the H&R....love it.

Almost no one has the Eibachs. Or if they do, nearly no one comments on them.

The H&Rs are cheaper and include lowering links. The Eibachs are for non air-ride rears, which mean they come with 4 springs. Cost to lower is higher still for the Eibachs as you'd have to purchase a set of lowering links for the rear air if you have that option.

I'm almost swayed to purchase the Eibachs just to see for myself if they're good. Some owners of the H&Rs don't like the harshness of the ride, where a nebulous Eibach comment I ran across said they ride better than the H&Rs.

Good to know, thank you finagle.

About to do my install on the front springs... is there anything to look out for that would be trickier than other modern vehicles? I ended up getting rear links.

also for the rear links... can you take them off with the car jacked up? does anything need to be supported before removing them? or do you just take them out and line everything up with the shortened links and re-install?

As for your first question, it's pretty standard. I used the rented spring compressors from Pepboys. Just be sure to unclip all the cables to get them out of the way first.

I didn't do the links, so I can't answer the second question.

H&R
 

Did mine last month... Awesome!

I have H&R great ride!

H&R 1.2" kit

http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p...ik/lowered.jpg

http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p...erik/dirty.jpg

Skunkd ..hows the quality ride after HnR?...any picsof your car?>

I have had Eibach on my 11 (non air ride) for almost 2 years. They ride super smooth, and def improved handling. I am very happy and would recommend them.

Am going to weigh in, even though I have not yet dropped my X5 I have lowered several other cars over the years. The ride comparison between Eibach and h&r is significant..eibach provides much more OEM like ride quality without the harshness associated with H&R. I have a freind that had H&r on his x5 with 22's and the ride over speed bumps,pot holes etc was not very nice, but once he switched to eibach It was very comfortable. I will be looking to add Eibach to my SAV soon.
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r...BC213D23DF.jpg

On 20s...
 

From my experience with Eibachs on other vehciles, they can get "bouncy", but are more "compliant" in their ride quality.

I have the OE 214s on my X5, and Non RFs (Toyo Proxes). The ride with the 1.2" H&Rs is perfect. In fact, I usually keep it set in Sport mode. I'm sure with RFs and 22s, they would be way too harsh.

Thanks.

Well I got my X5 back after being in the shop for 2 months. I cant find the sheet i took my measurments on :( but i recall it was 32-32 1/4" all around now I am measuring 29 3/4" to 30" all around so it seems I have the 2" springs?? I am going to see if I can see a part number on the spring itself the numbers on the box indicate the 1.2" kit.

I took my family for a road trip yesterday without mentioning the lowering or how bad I thought the ride quality was...we never even made it out of our crecent when my wife and 6 year old noticed something was wrong. We put on about 200 miles and it was brutal the truck is unbearable it is super bouncy even smooth hiways were a little bouncy. I hope I got the H&R 2" kit by mistake or its right back to stock for me, I am going to try to adjust the rears and see if that helps because the rear looks like the tires are sitting on the fenders.


http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p...ps2eedd7c9.jpg

I'll quote my reply from xbimmers here:

I just went to measure mine for you with a yardstick

Lowered on the H&R 1.2" springs and adjustable rear links I'm sitting at 30.5 inches front and rear fully settled in (over a year). The ride is like stock. You must have the 2" springs. I would raise your rear to match mine and change our the front springs for the correct ones. You will love it!

here is a picture of mine:

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...25164630_n.jpg

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...27622976_n.jpg

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...13052352_n.jpg

I tried raising the rear with no luck temps were below freezing and I couldn't find my 10mm socket...I give myself a D for effort. I am taking to the shop to get a clear bra so I'll get them to do it.

I did find my sheet I am dropped about 2" all around.

Its still at the shop, getting a clear bra on and the links adjusted. The shop looked and they are the 1.2" springs in the front but he things the dealership adjusted the links when they did the alignment because its lower in the rear and the links measure closer together than where he set them....so I said I wanted the links set a few mm higher than H&R recommends. I should know tomorrow

I got the rears adjusted back to factory height, the front springs match the 1.2" part number on the box and on the spring itself. Its still very bumpy/bouncy not as bad as before but still no where close to stock.....back to stock I go :rolleyes:

just to verify this is the part number correct? 50435-4

did you buy them new? It's wierd because mine actually rides almost softer than stock with the h&r's... :dunno:

then again my car is sitting an inch higher than yours... with the same springs.

My installer was in contact with H&R because had an X5 with the same springs and he said it was smooth compared to mine the numbers are for the 1.2kit I don't have them off hand but we checked the box and springs themselves. H&R claimed the diesel will sit lower than the 4.8 :dunno: must be heavier maybe iron block vs aluminum I am not sure I haven't really looked into it much.

Sylvan - sorry that you are having so many problems with yours.Strange that the weight of the 3.5d weights about 200lbs less than the 4.8i V8's from the raw data. Figure that would be in the motor.

I just raised my rears a little more now about 69mm from end link to end link and now I am 27.5 inches from the bottom of the rim to the bottom of the fender since the ground isn't always level. The rears are 27.5" as well and it rides like stock.

My only problem which I have to figure out is why my front is 27.5 on the driver side and 27.75 on the passenger side. Unlike the links with air the springs are the springs. It is a .25" difference which isn't a big deal but with springs I would think that it would be dead on or at least a little closer. I will remeasure again in a week which would mean about about 3 weeks to settle down.

If you make the links longer does it lower of raise the vehicle? I am laying on my back in the snow freezing my but off doing this....and it seems the little studs are stripped because they want to turn with the nuts?? I managed to get them off and made them each 3 turns longer, but the truck seems lower if anything:banghead::banghead: is how I feel right now. The shop said they tried 3 different settings and said the ball joints were back to stock height....not sure what that effects because the rear is still as low as f@&k I measure it in the exact same spot in my garage every time and I am still at 29.5" ground to fender and I would put the stock links back but I can't get the H&R ones off because they seemed stripped. Like I said I am laying on my Back in the snow freezing trying to figure this out and at this point I have no patience left :swear:

The shop also figures it needs an alignment and see if that helps? I have had 10 or more modded vehicles now and an alignment has never changed the ride harshness however BMW aligned it last without asking and they put a lot of negative camber in the rear where after the shop aligned it they had a lot less negative camber...still rode like sh@t both ways. At this point I am looking for any ideas because it pisses me off I am going to be over $1,000 into this with my stock springs back on it:( one more thing its rear leveling so would the fact the front is low keep the rear from coming up??

The longer you make the links the higher the car... but you have to let the car re-level by having it on the ground and unlocking or opening a door to actually see how much it changed. also it helps to drive it around the block and measure then try again.

As long as your car was level from left to right when you started, adjust each of them the same amount of turns each. I've found that 1 full 360 degree turn of the links higher or lower translates to almost a half inch of ride height reduction or addition (atleast on my car... I'm not sure if we have the same adjustable links)

But you definitely have to get the system to relevel before measuring again and a drive around the block should help with that since it will settle.

My garage has my car stored for winter so I back the X5 out on the drive way adjust it then drive it back into the garage to measure it. I thought longer would be to raise it so I did 3 full turns of each link. No change in height we just took it for a ride and it still sucks. I might try to put the stock links even if I have to break the H&R one to get them off. I am sure you guys can sense my frustration I have own the X5 for 3 months 2 of them it spent in the shop now it rides so poor I don't even like to drive it anymore. I do appreciate the help though guys :thumbup:

You can always buy new adjustable links if you break em. These are the ones I have Home Page $80USD

http://www.xoutpost.com/attachments/...5-800x600-.jpg

stock left/adjustable right

I turned mine 2 turns longer from the recommended H&R setting of 65mm distance as the recommended was too low and caused it to be bumpy in the rears. Now with the 2 turns up they are just right and even with the car.

Sylvan you might not have stripped the nut because when I was trying to loosen the driver side link the inside nut was spinning because I couldn't get the wrench to make a solid contact with the nut and I was turning and turning the outside nut without it loosening. So I thought the same as you. Then I used a thinner wrench to get inbetween it and used a socket to loosen the outside nut and it came out. You might be experiencing the same problem especially on your back and not being able to really have the space to work the wrenches or socket.

3 turns from the factory H&R settings should make yours almost at stock height. The effect was immediate for me when I put the links back in with the two turn adjustment. No waiting for it to adjust up. Once again I measured from the bottom lip of the rim to the bottom edge of the fender up/down from center of rim. I measured 27.5" all around with the exception of the front passenger spring at 27.75". The ride quality definitely improved. Unless there is something going on with your suspension in the back you can immediately see the change. If you measure the 65mm H&R factory setting requirement and then turn two turns up it should sit at the same height at mine at 27.5". I have third row seating so I am not sure how much that affects the weight/height difference from non-third row.

I also aligned my car to a less negative camber to give me more life out of the rear tires. The alignment shop that my friend owns made it easy for me to get under the car to make these adjustments. If you are going to realign your car see if you can get underneath it to get the links loosened and readjusted. Being on your back in the cold would suck and so I can't imagine your frustrations.

Don't give up on it. I was going to buy the adjustable links Skunkd showed but it seems the H&R will do the trick as it was too low on their recommendations. So going up was a breeze.

I also looked at going with the links skunk pictured, I thought H&Rs would be fine...everything I have read two turns up should solve my issues but mine haven't changed when my shop adjusted it or when I have done it. When it was in the BMW for multiple other issues they noticed the rough right and inspected the rear and couldn't find any issues with the air bags. The aftermarket shop I use is very knowledgeable and the owner had an H&R lowered V8 X5 so he familiar with them and they looked it over and reset the system and looked for codes but didn't find anything wrong?? I am at a loss as it seems I am the only one terribly un satisfied with the H&R ride quality. I love the look but I cringe just thinking of driving it. I also cringe thinkin of going back to stock :D I also have the third row I will measure from the lip of my rim to the fender when I get home, the sun is starting to go down so it's cooling off quick, I doubt I will mess with it much more today.

Edit.
I sit from the ground RR 29.5 LR 29.5 RF 30.25 LF 29.75 the RF sits on a little pad so my wife doesn't drive through the garage wall, when measuring from the wheel lip the fronts are very close to even. From wheel lip it was about 3" less all around so rears about 26.5"

I just looked that is the part number I have. :dunno: at this point I wish it was a wrong part number so at least I would know what's going on.

Sylvan looks like you are about an 1" lower than me which would make sense why you are riding like crap. I am 27.5" all around. Mine was around 26.75" before I raised it and it was a rough ride. Looks great though!!

Can you get to a place indoors that will allow for you to put it on a lift for a few mins?

I feel terrible that you are going through all this.

I installed the springs and links myself, and then had to re - adjust one side of the rear since it wasn't sitting level one time. That was a pain enough itself. But to have to go under and tool around with adjustment multiple times would drive me nuts.

Wish there was something we could do to help. You do hear the air system activate when you unlock your doors to enter the car correct?

I just realized I am running 22" wheels with 295/30's up front and 335/25's in the rear. That could explain the height difference of my car to yours. I never took that into account previously since we aren't on the same wheel and tire setup.

I will listen for the system to activate...maybe it's not......like I said both BMW and the independent shop looked at it for issues and neither found any?? It sits the same height running or if its off even when it's off for a few hours I measured it and it was the same height. I might try to crank the H&R links up as high as I can tomorrow and try hopping on the rear a few times and see if I hear any thing happening. The independent shop has contacted H&R 2x now they don't seem like they want to do anything at this point :confused: I thought they would have better customer service...I have ran their springs on a few other cars in the past and had good results. If KW would sell just the font coil overs I would get a set but it seems like my rear is the issue....maybe I will jack the front up a couple inches and see if the rear tries to level it out, I guess then I would know if the low the front is keeping the rear from coming up.

Skunk our over all diameters are still almost the same. Front is 0.3" difference and the rear is 0.1" difference so negligible differences. I am jealous of your wheels though they look great.

The only thing I can think of at this point is that the ride height sensor may not be plugged in fully, the connector is damaged, or the actual sensor might be at fault some how?

I really don't think the front has any effect on the rear period. since ive seen people with the 2" drop spring installed in the front and stock links in the back and the rear was still sky high until they installed adjustable links in the rear. It definitely has something to do with the rear itself in my eyes.

I haven't had a chance to change out the links back to the OEM, I work away during the week so my weekends are fairly busy. I went and stood by the rear this morning and unlocked the truck I could hear a brief buzzing that I would guess is the compressor. I would have to say its the truck itself but like I said both BMW and my independent shop checked it over last week:dunno: I guess if I put the rear links back on and it stays the same I will know something is malfunctioning.


Edit, I think the truck is the issue I just held an OEM link against the H&R one and they are the same length.....

Thought I would chime in.

I have a 2009 X5 4.8 on 20" 2-Piece Forged Wheels (not stock, much lighter wheels) with pretty decent sidewalls.

I have the H&R 1.2" Kit.

It is unbearable.. I have a 50lb tool bag in my trunk and it gets about 1-2ft of air on the slightest bump. My neck is sore, I've actually got air myself many times.

I'm having it removed this Friday. I'm not sure if its the wheels or what but its pretty bad.

The shop I'm bringing it to (Sonic MS) says that they can lower the car a little with the GT1 tool and remove the links. Sort of like a happy medium.

So my truck was in transport mode, so the compressor wouldnt kick in. My independent shop figured it out by trial an error eliminating parts one at a time then finally recoding it. So far I have only drove it a few blocks and it rides ok but certainly not stock like. Tomrrow I will put on about 100miles and if its too rough Ill turn up the links a bit and see how it feels.

http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p...ps7ae4339a.jpg

I hear my compressor kick on/off everytime i walk near the car. I didn't know the links were actually adjustable until I read this thread, so I might start by having them adjust the links closer to factory, but still like 1/2" lower or so.

I think mine is riding so low in the back that I'm getting flashed by everyone (thinking I have high beams on, but I don't)..

Sylvan - if that is your new adjusted height then you need to raise it one turn more and it should level your car out to a close to stock ride. Glad they found the problem. I hope that resolves your issues. Mine is fine and no one complains about it. It's amazing what 1/2 inch to 3/4 inch can do. That's what she said :)

ZooyorQ - did you have someone install them? Reason I ask is that the instructions says to set it at 65mm distance(if I recall) between the two end posts(bolts) I set mine at about 68-69mm and it did two things. It let my headlights point more downward and gave me more light coverage on the road. It was a BIG improvement :) I knew it would do that but I didn't know that much!!

And your SUV will ride much much better. Obviously the SUV is lowered so the feeling of "stock" will not be exact but its not too far off if you set it right.

Someone else installed them, but thanks for the note. I'll bring that with when I have them adjusted on friday!

No worries Zoo. I hope that it works out. Once you get it adjusted you won't want to remove them. No they won't be like Coilovers but then again they are not 3K either. :)

The ride is compliant enough for everyday use. I don't even notice it lowered anymore but other people at the dealership when I brought it in for service asked me if I lowered it. They seem to notice it immediately. I think it is subtle.

Thanks again!

When I dropped down to 20"s from the OEM Style 215 21"s I felt like it looked like I had miniature little wheels on it. Its amazing how we now think 20"s look small.. just 10 years ago they were 'huge'.

That said I love the way it looks dropped .. but I'm paying the price with ride comfort and I'm not sure I can do it anymore. I'm hoping a happy medium will eliminate the goofy look with the smaller wheels I put on it, and still ride decent. I'm not a picky guy, and like I said.. I've been driving it this way for almost 2 years.. but it is getting a bit tiring now. Then again maybe I screwed up my suspension from driving it so low for the last 2 years.

If you lowered it two years ago I am not sure if H&R included the adjustable links then. I just lowered mine after holding off for a while and it had the links. There are after market links but I think you can H&R to send you a pair if it wasn't part of your kit then.

I have looked at other wheels and outside of some expensive aftermarket wheels i really like the style 214's the most for my X5. First car/SUV I haven't put aftermarket wheels on. Lowering really helps it out.

No that's the pre-fix height....but everything is better with pictures :D I am going to remeasure it when I get to my parking spot in my garage tomorrow. The shop said he was at 65mm then went back and gave it two more turns up. If it feels rough after my road trip tomorrow I may give it another turn or two.
I never expected it to ride like stock over the past 15 years i have been modding vehicles i have either lifted or lowered most of them and they never ride like stock after but I have seen a few guys post that they were getting near stock ride characteristics. I will live with some poor ride charateristics but before I was wincing every time I saw a bump and I am sure the rear caught air on at least 2 occasions in the week I drove it.

Video of air or it didn't happen. :)

When I had set it to the recommended settings from H&R the back was lower than expected. On the smooth roads I was like yeah and on the bumps I was like oh crap that is dental work in the making.

It squatted in the rear as well which caused my headlights to point more upwards. I changed to 6K HID bulbs at that time and thought man they kinda suck. I went to my friends shop to realign to a better tire wearing alignment spec but not lose too much of the handling characteristics. While I was there I raised it up and gave it a couple of turns and it measured out the 27.5" from bottom rim to bottom fender and it leveled it out. That night I took the SUV out and BAM there was light on the ground. Haha.

There is always a give and take with springs and lowering. But I can live with this mod. I hope that you will find the right setting for your X5.

^^ pics please
Im lowering mine next week
Thsnk you alpine x5

It's in the shop for maintenance until tomorrow. I will shoot a few shots this weekend.

The first one was a set of train tracks, they actually dropped down so when I hit the pop up on the other side it felt like the rear wheels came off the ground....it was scary I was going about 120-130km/hr. the second time I had my family in the truck and there was a kick up for an over pass, my 4yr old was about to take a drink of milk when I hit it...milk went every where front seat/back seat all over then she was crying why would dad do that to me :rofl: looking back it was funny. It may not have litterly caught air but I bet it was awful close :wow: with no air in the bags nothing would absorb the bumps it the rear.

That's funny. My bad experience with air and thinking I might have cracked my car in half was when i played around with my Cayenne's ride height adjustments. I made a switch to enable parking height and also used lowering links to get the SUV to sit very low and the switch kept it there. It handled like it was on rails on a smooth surface. I left it on to ride around and it was soooooo rough going over even a quarter. I had 22" wheels as well which did help. I was going about 40-50 over some railroad tracks which looked smooth going into them from my side. It was a set of new tracks I haven't been over before. The other side was a small dip and then a minor bump. With a normal height and going over it slowly it would have been a little jarring but nothing bad. But with my settings I think the SUV's rear bounced up and shifted weight and body and my water went up about 2-3 inches and crashed. Needless to say that was the last time I drove over railroad tracks at speeds greater than 10mph. To be honest I don't miss the Cayenne except full air suspension that I had. It was nice to adjust front and back evenly at a flip of a switch.

I removed the HR links and instead lowered the car using the BMW GT1 tool, I took the measurements (and crap if I can't remember what they were) with the H&R lowering links in (at 67mm if I recall) and raised it 10mm from there. The car now evened out, i'm not longer blinding people at night with my lights pointing up, the truck looks level.. and the ride is sooo much better.

I decided to use a VAS 5054 I had to trick the suspension on my Bentley into thinking it was sitting higher than it should. When you run the calibration it will ask what height the car is currently at (as a basis) , its expect 395mm (in the case of the Bentley GT, which is hub to fender edge).. if you lie and say the current height is 410mm it will lower the car 15mm thinking it is NOW at 395mm. Same thing on the X5 with the BMW GT1 tool.

But the only difference is with the Bentley (like the Porsche) is you have a high/low setting. So I have the Bentley "low" settings programmed on the high button and the low button is now programmed for 15mm lower than it should be. It looks great, rides great.. and if I want another 10mm or so of travel/comfort I can just raise the suspension from in the car.

Wish the X5 had air suspension in the front so I could do the same.. maybe in the New X7/X8?

Sylvan - have your Front Thrust Rod Bushings checked as well. I was getting a clunking noise from what I thought was the rear. It turns out that the noise was traveling from the front to the rear. Just got my SUV back today and I can tell you that it made a big difference on feel and ride quality. It wasn't bad to start but this feels even better. Just have it checked out when you get a chance.

Dukes - I will get you some pictures tomorrow. I just got the SUV back today and it was later and gray outside. I can take pictures tomorrow really quick and give you an idea on how my SUV sits.

Dukes here is a picture if the lowering if you can make it out.

Attachment 57934

Hi All,

I have a questions, I have a 2013 without the "air suspension" but when I unlock the car, I still hear some sort of "gas pressure" release. What's up with that? I'm looking to get the Eibachs since I hear horror stories with the H&R. I do have front and rear springs by the way, so this confirms that I don't have the air suspension...

Holy Wheel Gap Batman!!!
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...A13AB3B320.jpg

Thanks
Mike

The horrors stories I believe were the initial installs with the 2" drop instead of the 1.2" and also the rear links were adjusted too low causing a very rough and bouncy ride. I had mine installed and set the links to the same as front and it rises just fine. The recommended settings from H&R which I believe is 65mm between posts is a little too low. I originally set mine to the recommended and it sucked. Adjusted it to match fronts ride height and its night and day.

Not sure how much your eibachs would lower as I haven't seen to many examples without air suspension in rear. Eibachs have been known for comfort rides and always liked them. Surprised they never made a set for the air suspensions.

I feel that the ride is quite stiff already. 21" and RFT and drop may not be the most suitable with babies in the back. So I think I'll try Eibach and give some feedback for you guys.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Mine on H&R is better than before but my wife has started complaining about it, it looks soooo good lowered I might give the Eibachs a try or beg KW to sell me just the front coil overs. I am fairly sure I have something else going on it is lowered a solid 2" in the front but all part numbers indicate it is the 1.2" kit and H&R says its unlikely that two defective springs made it into the same box so they aren't willing to do anything for me....I wouldn't take my chances with another H&R kit.

Sucks that you had so many problems and still can't it where you want it.

If you decide to get coils let me know and I can send you to my friend in Cali that can help you out with very good pricing. The chances that you will convince KW to sell the fronts only are slim to none.

I ordered the Eibach springs from the Tirerack and the lowering links from loweringlinks.net. My local mechanic did the install yesterday and I went to the dealer for the alignment today. I am very happy with the outcome. The ride is very close to my stock M-Sport setup.

Before

http://i756.photobucket.com/albums/x...psa178007a.jpg

http://i756.photobucket.com/albums/x...ps9c4b0ac1.jpg

http://i756.photobucket.com/albums/x...ps3df650df.jpg

During

http://i756.photobucket.com/albums/x...pscc433542.jpg

http://i756.photobucket.com/albums/x...ps5729f5b8.jpg

http://i756.photobucket.com/albums/x...ps48d7965d.jpg

After

http://i756.photobucket.com/albums/x...ps564e6f33.jpg

http://i756.photobucket.com/albums/x...psb387f078.jpg

http://i756.photobucket.com/albums/x...psb452dbc0.jpg

How much did It lower you in the front?

Have smaller wheels and taller sidewalls sure helps :)

Can't wait to rid myself of the RFT's and put the Michelins or the DWS's non RFTs on.

Would love for someone to make a replica 214 wheel in 21 inch. Can't get into the 215's yet. Although in ferric grey it does look good.

They make 214 reps in 22"

I will look for them. Never seen anyone run them or advertise them. Afraid 22" mAybe a bit much. You run 22" right ? You have a straight side shot of your car posted ?

They don't seem to come in staggered anyways. That's a no go. 22x10 only.

I didn't measure before but the fender now sits at 31" front and 30.5" rear.

thats a shame why even make replicas then lol

oh and yea here are what 22's look like:

22x10 22x11 295/30/22 335/25/22



https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...25164630_n.jpg

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...27622976_n.jpg

http://distilleryimage11.s3.amazonaw...0a9f1919_7.jpg

God those rotors look puny.....

Yea compared to my e55amg and e60 m5 they sure do. No way in hell I'm upgrading to a bbk on this thing though it barely moves out of its own way lol

But this style wheel definitely leaves the most open space inside. When I have my deep lipped 22's on it hides it much more since they never look as large as a flat faced wheel