In need of new tires
 

I know this topic has been discussed over and over and most of us conclude that the Bridgestone RFT are basically crap!! I have those and they are terrible but yet a stiff ride. Nothing against RFT but I need to switch to non RFT hence leaning towards either TOYO ST2 or General grabbers. Obviously price is in mind since I don't feel like blowing 1400 bux on all RFT.

Any good longterm recommendation on TOYO tires or generals? Also other brand inputs are welcome. I would love to get the michelins but they are at 300 a piece. Thanks folks.

The General Grabbers are summer-only tires, so seeing as how your location is in the Northeast, do you have winter tires on hand?

Like I tell everyone, tire selection is personal preference and driving style, as well as expectations/demands. Looking on Tire Rack, my vote goes for the Pirelli Scorpion Verde or the Continental CrossContact LX20.

Toyos are Awesome!
 

The ST-IIs are a GREAT tire. Excellent performance year round.

There was a time here where everybody loved Vredestein Ultrac SUV Sessanta...

It might be worth looking into it...

You "need to" switch?

I have the Michelins, 32k on the 2010...6k on the 2012...love them.

There is a reason they are "$300 per".

Crappy tires are crappy tires... its funny, but price has a way of following tire performance.

I got 32k on my first set, seems a pretty decent value to me.

A

I found 'regular/non-RFT' bridgestone duelers

Very true Ard, but I am talking about the Bridgestones RFT from BMW, that have really terrible reputation not only on the X5 but all across other vehicle brands as well. My tires have about 20K on them and they seem to have a bit of good tread on them but they are loud, no cupping found, etc.

I am not a fan of bridgestone from the start, i prefer something more better than them. Michelins are indeed the best, Agree with you there - but not willing to pay that price at this time, my own reasons and choice. So I am leaning towards either Toyo's or another reliable brand that is within my budget. Plus there is a nice tear in the middle of my front right tire which is not safe for long term.. Here in MA, the roads are more pathetic and have more potholes than the craters on moon or another planet, so a tire ends up taking a good beating even when being very cautious.

I had the Bridgestone Dueler H/P Sports (not run flat) on my 2004 X5 and I liked them a lot. I had the Michelin RFT's on the 2011 and while they were quiet other things drove me insane (horrid tramlining) - so I ditched them and went to the Bridgestone Non-RFT's I had left over from my 2004.

I have new 20" wheels coming (Style 259 from X6) to put on and I'm on the fence about what to do as well. I like the Bridgestone Dueler's but have leaned towards the Michelin Latitude Tour non-rft's as an alternative. I will have my 18" wheels as my dedicated snow tires so not having all season tires isn't a concern.

My experience with non-RFT Bridgestones on our 325 and my 3 X5's has been nothing but flawless. We had bridgestone RFT's on the 325 and they were crap.

My .02 cents.

also used continental contact on e53 x5 in the 19" size. good grip and EXCELLENT tread life. can't remember the exact model name.

I am going with the Proxes ST/2 this weekend.
150/piece and total 700 out the door... includes all the balance, alignment, etc.

Will post more reviews later on once I have marked some miles on them. Thanks for all the inputs guys..

Just wanted to add my two cents here. I too tried saving some money by going with a cheaper tire (Conti DWS) than Michelins. Big mistake! I ended up gonig back several times to balance, index, rotate because they vibrated and caused the steering to pull. Finally got them to swap for the Michelin Latitudes and I couldn't have been happier to blow the extra money. Well worth it in my experience.

This is just a side comment... perhaps philosophical...

There is a weird 'class' or money issue that often comes up- Dinan has this down to a T... it is probably best encapsulated with the statement, "if you have to ask, maybe you can't afford it"..or "you pay to play".

I've always found this objectionable. I am driven by content and performance- and value- and not by what something looks like or how much it costs. To say "I buy expensive stuff because it is expensive, and therefore is better", is just dumb.

Now to the topic at hand: I personally believe that Michelin makes a superior product. I've moved around to many brands- Pirelli, Yoko, etc on the fast cars, and find myself back at michelin. (Although for tracking the P car I use cheaper rubber, :) ) Same with another SUV: Cross Terrains, for 5 sets, then Geolanders for two, but now back to Mich.

I make the recommendation based on the total 'deal', and my perception of the overall value- NOT because they are expensive and 'what do you expect, its a $70k car?'.

I am guessing that Tony above has the same perception.

I just mention this as I've picked up a vibe here in the thread about this, and wanted to make that distinction.

A

I agree with Ard...
There is only ONE thing that is in contact with the ground on your very nice and expensive vehicles, and that is the tires. Why would anyone try to, "save money," on this. I am not saying you should try to spend the most money that you can, but you should research the BEST tire available for stopping, traction, etc. Then shop around for the best deal. Tracking is one thing where you are there to waist them, however if you blow a cheap tire and crash, well then, there you go...

I think you will be happy with them, and that is a great price. I have ~2k on mine now, and the only negative compared to the 20" Dunlop is slightly
less grip, but that was to be expected going from a 'performance' tire to a standard 'all-season', and not a big issue with this type of vehicle, IMO. The Toyos are better in every other way.

FWIW, I do not believe Michelins are better than any other brand. Sure, some specific models are great, and they seem to work more closely with manufacturers to develop treads and compounds for specific vehicles. But they also make some absolute crap for the mainstream.

Because some people are not blinded by marketing. Continental and Toyo do not make an inferior product.

I see this is leaning off towards a heated opinionated debate already :)
Indeed tires are tires, in contact with the road and all... but its also personal preference. Many tire manufacturers make great products, and yes some are defective, or bad review because a user did not like it and vice versa. I read plenty of posts here and many vouch for the Vredestiens, Toyo's, Pirelli's, etc. None of which are standard BMW tires to be acceptable or in the manufacturer books as acceptable replacements. BMW only suggests Bridgestone or Michelins RFT for the X5 E70. Yes, some people like to stick with what the book says, and some don't. Nothing wrong with that either... again personal preference!

Some may want expensive tires, to ensure they pay for what they get concept and are in fact inclined towards the top tire company such as Michelin, etc. And some of us may go to less marketed but decent enough tires that have a good reputation as well. Any tire can run into issues, RFT or not, and Bridgestone or el-cheapo mastercrafts. Same goes to a $70K which vehicle can be found lemon and infested with issues, or a 13K brand new Kia with no issues at all for 200K miles and more.

Marketing indeed has to do with all... there is nothing wrong in trying out what works good for someone individually. I personally don't have any issue in spending $1400 in new Michelin RFT tires, but personal decision to save 700 and try out the Toyo's could be worth the savings, and enjoying the ride.

I did go with a non-RFT Michelin, so I'm not one to stick with what BMW says is best. The non-RFT Michelin Latitude is much better than the two different run flat tires I've had before. I also tend not to be a brand snob or (or buy French stuff), but Michelin tires have never let me down, other than they tend to wear out quicker than other similar tires. I too track another car and I have never used an expensive Michelin at the track. I've had good results with Toyos, Nittos, and Dunlops. My experience with Contis and Pirellis have been somewhat disappointing.

I think you left Dunlops off that list?

I just bought a set of 19 inch Michelin run flats for my 2010 X5 35d. I had the original Bridgestones. I like the michelins much better.
Chuck

Indeed, forgot the Dunlops.

What you did there was put passenger car tires on a 2,5 ton SUV. That often compromises the handling characteristics- did that once with the Kumho Ecsta SPT on my X3. From then on, SUV tires for SUVs only.

How do you figure? The Continental DWS has the same XL load rating as all of the OE run-flats for the X5.

Alan Smithee, did you notice slight noise from your tires, sounds like the tread is a bit noisy maybe, but yes the tires are great. Got them on Saturday and a huge step up from the Bridgestone RFT so far.

+1. I have the 20" Dunny's now but will go to the Dueler RFTs. You stand a greater chance of something screwing up somewhere in the handling set-up, etc when you switch tire dynamics. Not worth the headache of trying to save a few hundred dollars.

Well, I was wrong - sadly have to say this. But again this is my personal experience so far.
3 days with the Toyo Proxes ST2, and they are horrible. Noisey, alot of woosh woosh noise. My alignment and balance is perfect since the car drives perfect, just all the feedback from the tire is buzzing the entire X away... good thing there is 30 day return/exchange. Now back to the drawing board, still non RFT but between Michelin or others.

i'm on my second set of Toyos. no noise complaints here.

where did you find them for $150? i guess i should ask which size also.

Town Fair Tire, 150/tire. The tire is great and beefy, but not sure if I am liking them. My size is 255/55/18 - standard bmw 18" wheel. very noisy compared to my almost shot run flats from Bridgestone.... could be bad tire maybe since others have had a good luck with it, but then again most of the folks here are running the same tire on 20's I believe.

i'm on 19s. cheapest i can find is about $185 / tire and that is online.

did you get the XL version? you may have a bad tire, did they Road Force balance them?

i'm not real noise conscious generally but compared to the wife's E90 with RFTs my X is nearly silent.

They did roadforce balance them upon my request. The tire was listed with TownFair at 190/piece and I know the manager who is my neighbor - he sold them to me for 150.
I am wondering about a bad tire as well, I hear alot of tread noise like my wife's old Honda Pilot, it had the firestone destination LE which were terrible, felt like driving a semi truck with loud tires.

No noise - in fact, after they were installed I noticed more engine noise and wind noise on the highway, suggesting that the tires are quieter than the Dunlops (I am running 20s).

I think this may go counter some others experience, but I switched from my second set of Michelin Lattitides to Conti Contact DSW's on my last X5 and was very pleased with the improvement. The light snow driving performance was the big difference I noticed, but as I recall the road noise was also reduced. These were standard symetrical tires on 18" rims.

These tires were not particularly cheap, but I got a good price from Tire Rack and had them installed by my dealer. On that topic, I concur with some of the previous statements in this thread. I think anyone should shop around for the best price, but going cheap on tires is the wrong place to save money. I can think of a lot of other things I'd be willing to cut corners on before buying a lower price tire. My advice to anyone looking for new tires is; do your resarch here and on other blogs, at retailers, and sources like Tire Rack. But at the end of the day, don't buy crappy tires just to save a few bucks.

New tires will almost always be quieter and ride better than old, worn tires regardless of brand/tread. Kind of like buying new shoes for yourself.

To assume that the "old tires were crap" isn't always right.

Bingo.

Same as "I changed my tranny fluid to Royal Purple after 120k miles on the OE, and it is WAY better".

Old, old tires and old, old fluid are usually crap. But the old tires, when new- and the old fluid, when new- was probably pretty good....http://www.xoutpost.com/images/smilies/thumbup.gif

Not always, but folks need to keep this in mind, IMO

To assume that "old tires" were replaced isn't always right, either.

I was actually comparing performance experienced during the entire lifecyle, but point well taken. New anything generally performs better.

My two cents.
Always bought Michelin for my cars, but this time I tried a set of Toyo Versado CUV's. Nice smooth, stable ride. Ok with passing on the "Michelin punch" this time around.;)

FWI worth I believe the Bridgestones were a great tire. I squeezed 33k out of my original set and they handled everything I threw at them. Snow, rain, curves and they were alwayss sure footed. They were on the other loud as many can attest. I hunted and hunted for new ones and at the time Bridgestone must have been re-engineering or something because no had them and I wasnt about to give Tire Rack a bunch of money. Hence I ended up going with the Michelins and they have urned out so far ok. The X is my wifes driver and she wasnt about to go with a non runflat. We will see how many miles we get out of these and that will help me decide which way to go for he next set.
And by the way--I was speaking to a BMW SA the other day and he seems to thing our good ole Government will mandate that all cars have RFT's on them within the next three years. Get used to them now!

How do you like the Versado's now that you have some time & mileage on them?

I replaced the original Bridgestone Dueler RTF's with Dunlop SP Sport Signature about 3,000 miles ago. What a difference! The car feels a lot more comfortable, it is much quieter, it does not hydroplane and it is actually drivable in the snow. They really transformed the car. That's not because the Dunlops are so great but because the Bridgestone RTF's are so lousy. Ditch the RTF's and with the money you saved buy a donut spare.

I opted for the Toyo Open Country H/T's after a long conversation with the tire shop. I was hesitant as when you look at their website they appear to market to light trucks versus more sporty SUV/CUV's.

While the ride comfort is vastly improved especially on the torn up streets of New Hampshire and Mass with this crazy winter, I feel it lost too much of it's high speed handling characteristics. Long swooping on-ramps that the Michelins handled in the 60-70mph range are not as tight with the new tires. Could be they need some more miles though.

If you're looking for smooth, near silent ride and are willing to give up some cornering characteristics, these are definitely the tires for you. I still have a few weeks to decide as I can swap them within 30 days where they were purchased. Will update in a few weeks.

As a side note, they were pretty good in snow as well. Much better braking and turning abilities than the Michelin run flats ever had, no surprises there though!

Update:

I've had the tires almost 2 years now, about 30k. They've been fantastic, once the first 500/1000 miles were gone they tightened up not a greasy. They're still a little soft on hard corners but very predictable and very stable. Tread wear has been outstanding, 10/32's left would say 80k wouldn't be all that difficult although with snow i don't think I'd push it.

Handles the rain very well, only in the deepest of puddles as speeds that are unreasonable for the conditions does it hydroplane. As for snow they're decent tires at slower speeds < than 30mph. Once over that speed you're rolling the dice some as they have a tendency to ride on top of the snow and slush versus cutting through it. I'd say that's more a trait of such a wide tire.

These tires worked very well on my X5, they were eaten alive by my wife's Toyota and only lasted 31k. Once past the 5/32 mark they get unbearably loud, then again her SUV is loud to begin with.

My driving style is mostly highway very spirited, I have been known to test the limits of this car especially on cloverleafs!

Same alignment numbers each vehicle? Or just whatever happened to be?

Crappy Toyota design?? FWD?? They're all known to eat tires even the AWD versions. The good part though I received 40% back seeing as they didn't make the 60k warranty.

Both cars have the tires rotated every 7500 miles with an alignment every spring (~15k) after the roads settle down from the frost heaves. Neither one is ever out of alignment as the adjustment have all been within specs. They're two main differences; the type of driving. I'm 80% highway, the van is ~30% highway, and the van is my wife's car, and that's all I'll say! For a while I thought it might be the van weighs too much however, my X weighs 10% more so that discredits that idea.

Overall I very much so like the tires on my X. They're smooth, very quiet, and you can get into them hard and they're very predictable.

Alignment isnt binary. There are 'optimal alignments for best tire wear and handling' and "its within spec"..two different things. IMO. Of course vehicle weight, tire size, suspension dynamics and inflation pressure also impact life.

Its why I chuckle when people talk about tire life and one brand or another...or "run flat" like it is a specific tire....

I agree to a point although, for most drivers alignment to factory specs should provide you a decent experience with tires. They should achieve their mileage rating with somewhat vanilla handling specifications. Most people don't hand their tire guy detailed specs as to what you want outside factory specs. That said there are factory duds for specs as in the case of my e36, factory alignment gets you neither handling nor longevity...I chuckle at the last one I'm not sure that's achievable when my size 14 is on the throttle regardless of specs!

When *I* think about most new BMW cars, they're leased cars with factory maintenance which includes rotating tires? & air pressure checks at set intervals. I don't know about alignments though. (wouldn't know I only take other peoples bmw discards). The point being all things being equal, tire longevity on the same car with factory specs, similar treatment are fairly accurate. My run-flats lasted 35k and were toast, therefore my Toyo's will last considerably longer seeing as they're at 10/32 with 31k on them. Same driving, same maintenance cycles.

To your point though between different cars yes there are many more factors that go into it. A basic understanding that air pressure, rotation, and alignment are the key factors that a driver can address, those areas are critical to preventing premature wear. Some tires work with some cars, others they don't. In the case of what I saw I'd agree. Great tires for the X5, questionable for a Toyota.

Bump

I see this thread has come back...

Still very happy with the Toyo Proxes 35k miles later. They continue to handle well, ride well, and are quiet. Rears look like they will last forever. The fronts are starting to show a bit of wear on the outer edges, but that is likely due to my driving and no fault of the tire. Great tire in this application, regardless of price.