Problem replacing run flats with standard tires
 

I am out of town and my wife took her 2007 x5 4.8 Sport with the 20" wheels to the local Firestone tire center to have her run flats removed and standard tires put on. Firestone said they could only get one tire to seal and ended up taking the other 3 to a Discount Tire down the street. They also said they could not get the tires to seal. To sum it up, both places claim that because it came with run flats the rims are not made for standard tires and the sidewall just slips down inside the wheel and wont seal.

I told them that they managed to get one to seal so their hypothesis was obviously wrong. This is in Indianapolis by the way and should have some experience with larger wheels and tires as well as run flats.

Stock wheels and the new tires are the exact same size as stock, any ideas or experiences with this?

Thanks.

I think the problem they are having is that they cant get the bead to hold air when trying to seat it on the rim. I have had this problem with tires that have been shipped stacked with the tread from one sitting in the center of another- this forces the bead to collapse to the center of the tire.

They can either use a bead blaster or do like I do in my home shop- get a 20" bicycle tube, partially inflate it and use the tube to fill the gap between the tire and the rim. Lube with RuGlyde and when the tire starts to fill, work the bike tube out from the gap. If they are careful, you can get several uses from a single tube. You should have more than one on hand...

HTH

The bicycle tube should not be necessary. Experienced tire mounters should be able to do this task easily. Recommend you go to someone else. I've used a tie down ratchet strap wrapped around the center of the tread and that causes the bead to move out closer to the rim. It's been a long time since I've worked in that industry but if memory serves there is a tool available to accomplish the task.

This.


OP- Your wife went to get tires???? :thumbup:

Lubehead,

I agree the tube should not be necessary. Unfortunately with the design of some rim clamp tire machines, there is not enough freeboard between the bottom of the rim and the machine table to set the inside bead by pushing down on the tire. In a normal situation, the installer sets the inside bead and then lifts the tire so that the outside bead touches the rim while inflating the tire and it will "catch". I have had tires where the strap around the middle wouldn't close the gap- the tire would buckle before the bead spread far enough- hence the bicycle tube. There are also air tanks available with a large hole and flexible nozzle that can be used to set a bead- (the other option (ether and a match) is dangerous and should never be attempted)

My point was that there are other ways to get the bead to set- that the rim design is not a limiting factor in being able to use a regular vs. run flat tire.

I ordered them from Tire Rack and put them in her 5 so that she could drive it to the shop to have them installed.

Thanks for the replies. I'm going to call them and tell them about the strap and bicycle tire trick and see they'll try it. Of course they want to sell me $2,000 worth of run craps.

They claim that there are some "pins" on the BMW wheels that keep forcing the tire to "pop off" and not hold air. I am really disappointed that Disount Tire couldn't figure it out.

I would love to see the mysterious pins that are a problem with anything but a run flat. Maybe I can learn something :)

My brother is a BMW tech in Boston and he said the same thing.

This is why 10 years ago I bought a rim clamp tire machine and spin balancer. Only way to guarantee no BS.

Dave/Macksibum, thanks for the response, those machines didn't exist when I did tires.

isellpower, you may want to contact Tire rack and ask about their list of "approved/authorized installers"

So the one wheel that worked is defective since it is missing the pins???

Look, they are annoyed you didnt buy tires from them.


Update this thread when you DO get them mounted!

A

Never heard such of a thing....I stalled tires through college at discount for 3 years...tires don't 'pop' off....if a tire wer to pop...it would explode off. There are no pins preventing anything...something's not right here...
I would run to another installer and then call corporate....

Vehicles originally equipped with RFT will have the EH2 rim design. This is a different profile on the rim, with a second ridge that retains the RFT bead in the event of deflation. EH stands for extended hump, EH2 means on both inner and outer edges of the rim.

I suspect that by pins they mean these ridges.

I can certainly understand that these additional ridges would make new tires harder to seat. That said, they should be able to do it, standard tires fit on EH2 rims.

Thanks for the assistance gentlemen. I called a small tire shop in North Indy and spoke to the owner. He laughed at my story and said to bring it in this morning. It's been there an hour so I'll let you guys know how it goes.

:iagree:

Still sounds like a scam....
I had OEM run flats and have been ruining non run flats for2 sets now. No issues and no questions from installers....

Good information!

Update for everyone.

As stated previously my wife took the tires to a small local indy shop where the owner still works on the cars. She said the tire machine looked older than her (she's 35). She said that after sitting in the waiting area for 1.5 hours the older gentleman that owned the place came out to speak with her. She said she just knew that he was going to say that it could not be done. However, he said he was all done but it needed an alignment and would she like that done also. 45 minutes later she drove out of there with 4 news tires mounted, balanced, and a fresh alignment.

Thanks for all of the advice and I hope that this helps someone else. She did mention that all 4 tires were coated in some "goop" so apparently Firestone and Discount Tire must have actually tried.

It sounds like these were really a challenge. The toughest ones I ever had were on my wife's old Envoy- sloppy sidewalls and just could not get the bead set. Two were set with a match and starting fluid. The other two I did with the bike tube trick. At one point I was jumping on the tire while it was mounted on the tire machine table trying to get the inside bead set so I could lift it to seal the outer bead. I was ready to kill someone or something.

I wonder if the Firestone/Discount guys were mounting the rim upside down to the tire machine- sometimes they do this to prevent damage to the finished side from prying with the tools. I could see where that could be a problem since the double bead is on the inside, and that would have been on top.

Glad you finally got them installed.

It was years ago, but I never used a bicycle tube. We had a commercial product that was similar in concept, just like in this photo. Lots of lube, apply the ring, seat one side, remove the ring, seat the other side, with a rope or strap if necessary. Never a used a match, but wanted to more than once. I thnk people just assume that it is all automatic, that all beads are the same size and tires just mount themselves. Wish it was so.

Interesting thread. I also have a tire mounting machine and balancer and occasionally I have a tire that doesn't seat but applying a bit of "goop" just inboard of the humps normally cures it.

I stopped going to tire stores for mounting, in my area they are clueless and completely careless for the most part. Like this story, they have an endless list of trick to try and sell you tires. It wastes huge amounts of time and they always go out of their way to scratch the rims. The one place that has a good reputation I still found very dodgy and some people go there and sit around for three hours to get it done.

Tire chains like Discount and Firestone are normally the worst offenders but I have also been disappointed at independents. I once brought a rear wheel of my 993TT in and the idiot promptly laid it down on its face, i told him not to bother and went elsewhere...

Exactly the same reason I bought mine. If you factor in the time to travel to the store and the wait time and the "unknown", I find it easier to handle myself. I can also buy from Tire Rack or Discount direct and save a few $$$. In addition I swap winters and summers on 3 vehicles- machine paid for itself a few years ago.