Thanks A. My worries are this X just cant stay running. I feel they could fix anything, but whats down the road at 65k, 70k or further? We bought a diesel because we pile the miles on and wanted reliability and durability. LOL

I plan on getting the dealer and BMW NA together this week. I am ready to dump it, but the wife loves this X.

The latest diagnosis is a bad NOx sensor. The one after the SCR. The BMW rep said he would like to replace both the before and after Nox sensors. Waiting on parts since Monday. Looks like 5-7 more business days before it arrives as of yesterday. At a minimum this latest repair is two weeks.

We had the dealer pull the service records for the X across the entire system since we have had it worked on at another dealer a few times. I had forgotten the idrive was giving us troubles not too long after they removed the dash and door panels. The diagnosis at that time was the idrive was bad and they installed a new one. Two weeks later we had to return it again for the same thing and they had to replace the radio and Cd drive modules. Three weeks later we returned it again and they had a tech fly in to chase wiring issues. He found multiple loose wires. It has been working for the past few months without issue since the last repair. I had forgotten about those repairs since the wife did this while I was working some very long hours.

In the end, the selling dealer wants to get us out of the X and into a new one. They are evaluating the trade in price and seeing what they can do as far as making us a deal. I have no numbers to look over yet. Im not holding my breath for an awesome deal. LOL

Remarkable series of faults, glitches, probs imo...
I'm with ard: depending upon the dlr's funny arithmetic/offer, I would move your car's situ 'up' within BMW, ala lemon or lemon-like effort.

This assumes you would want another X of any species.
GL, mD

Lets hope it does not come to lemon laws and attorneys.

The second NOX sensor monitors NOX levels after the SCR catalyst. The problem is this sensor can't tell the difference between ammonia and NOX. If the system is injecting too much urea, the NOX sensor can interpret the additional ammonia as high NOX levels, which in turn asks the DDE for even more urea upstream. Hopefully whomever at BMW is instructing the tech on this matter is aware of this condition. It is a PUMA now.

Geez what a nightmare. One reason I didn't go with a diesel (or Turbo for that matter)--prefer naturally aspirated as generally more reliable. Hope it works out.

Agree on the attorneys, but lemon laws are what makes BMWNA take notice.

Typically the deal you will get from a dealer on a trade in will be far less than a lemon...but most people don't have the temperment to press.

Hope this fixes it... Was it a puma before?? They tend to get it right in one or two tries, but by that time the dealer has messed around for a while and the lemon threshold has been reached...

A

My 2011 x35d has 23,xxx miles and no issues like this. But I will concur the amount of squeaks and cracking sounds coming from the rear hatch drive me insane. It's going back in Wednesday for them to drive with me to witness what I hear...I love driving the car, just did a round trip from Portland to Seattle and got 28mpg and it's so fun to drive.

As far as lemon law and atty...when I had my 2004 Toureg that spent 1/2 of the 7 months I owned it in the shop...I got tired of the lip service from the local dealer and VW of A. Finally a letter from an attorney to VW of A about going down the lemon law route and I got an offer from VW to buy it back as a 'goodwill gesture'. I had to pay for the miles I had driven, at a very low per mile rate (it only had barely over 3,000 miles) and I jumped at that offer. They offered me an attractive deal on a 2005 but that is when I jumped to BMW and didn't look back.

I'd never go back to any VW/Audi product after that...but def worth checking out your options and getting rid of the car. You need to be able to depend on it and I wasn't with my T-reg.

It seems like all I do on this forum lately is agree with Ard, but we both live in the hills around Sacramento, so it must be that we are drinkin' the same water. All kidding aside, I have to agree with him on this becuase he is dead right.

It may be hard to accept, but your X5d is a lemon. Not to argue that the electronics don't need more development (and dealers need to learn how to diagnose and fix them), or that BMW may have outsourced some of the development, but the fact of the matter is your car has had more than an acceptable level of problems. There are others who have posted similar horror stories here, but considering how many of us have x5d's with little or no problems, yours has to be an exception.

I would strongly recommend that you pursue a lemon law case. Whatever you do, don't let your dealer bullshit you into some kind of under-valued trade where he gets to sell you a new car, and you get no real consideration for your greif. You have nothing to lose and everything to gain by pursuing a buyback from BMW. In Texas it only costs you $35 to file a claim, and you don't really need to engage an Attorney.

I'm not a litigious person, and I have to be careful what I say about Attorney's since I'm married to one. That said, I have not moral compunction about the fact that I forced Ford to buy back my 1999 Mustang Cobra under the CA lemon law. My car had a 2nd order vibration in the IRS that my dealer could not fix in 7 visits in as many months, including a field service Engineer flying out from Dearborn with a fully factory balanced driveline. By the time it was done, my car was working okay, but I had the same concerns you did that it would be worthless at a higher mileage when it inevitably failed again out of warranty. That was one of the reasons I was able to negotiate a buyback.

As it tuned out, I did not need to employ an Attorney to help with my claim, but I did consult with the consumer advocacy project at Michigain State University law school. They helped me fill out the necessary forms and helped me write a letter of demand to Ford at no cost. My point in bringing this up is that while there are plenty of ethcial, competent attorneys who specialize in this kind of law (they're really not ALL douchebags), you don't need one if you understand how the law works and follow it. To do this, you first have to get educated

In Texas, the lemon law contains 3 statuates that may apply to your case:
1. Two reasonable attemtps to fix a problem in the first 12k miles, followed by two more in the next 12k miles (the "4 times test").
2. More than 30 days out of service to fix the same problem (the "30 day test").
3. Diminished value

On the first point, you could easily argue that the failed EGR coolers, the urea tank heater, and the secondary urea tank level sensor failure are all related to the Diesel fuel system, and as such are the same problem that was not corrected. The fact that your still smelling fumes in the cabin after 50k miles, but the dealer has NTF'd it can be argued as proof. I'm not sure the second point is relevant, but given that you have clearly documented every item and issue along the way, if the days add up (even after 50k miles). The third point is related to the second, but given that part of the implied resale value of any car is it's service history, it's clear that all the repairs can be implied to have had an effect on this with your car.

My strong advise to you is to start by getting educated. The Texas DMV web site has a lot of the basic information and explains the application process. You may also want to check the James R. Hood (private, not Govt.) Consumer Affairs organization (www.consumeraffairs.com) to get additonal information on the federal statuates.

Whatever you decide to do, I hope it works out for the best for you. Except for an ugly battery failure, I've had nothing but joy from my 2011 x5d and could not be happier with it. I'm sorry to hear you have not had a similar experience. For what you paid for your car, you deserve better, and I for one think you should ask BMW to make it right.

Good luck,

Crash,

I really appreciate the long post. Really! Thank you.

I have spent many hours looking into the lemon law in Texas and came away with the opinion it was weak and basically worthless if you had passed 24K miles. At this point I may contact a few attorneys and get some advice.

Great input. Funny how strangers can reach out and help, eh? :) Kudos for crash taking the time to buck you up!

Back to the 24 month comment- my read is that all that means is that the law says 'after 24 months you cannot say "3 visits without fixing and it automatically has reached the 'reasonable repair attempts' limit", rather you need to establish what is reasonable'

You'll need to research this specific aspect and develop your rationale as to why BMW has exceeded the reasonable limit... in writing, to BMWNA at the address for lemon claims. not the dealer, not an email. Formal demand.


But what will happen is that after you write a formal demand letter, a whole new process kicks in- it isnt some happy voice promising to call the dealer. It is paralegals and attorneys that review the claim and make a calculus of 'would they win?'. Once you have 40,50 days out of service- or 5,6,7 attempts to fix "the diesel emissions system" they will probably come to the conclusion "yeah, we need to lemon this".

(As you read stories from people who have done this, the shift in BMW is dramatic- indeed I believe the front line customer relations people are very well trained to keep you verbal and keep you de-escalated. Two features: they will always turn you back to the dealer- still promising to 'look into it'- but forcing you to the dealer, and importantly they NEVER do ANYTHING in writing. They always CALL. Always. Nothing in writing. They are well trained. But once you trigger the legal lemon process that all changes....)


DO NOT think it will be a red carpet- you are, essentially, seeking to become a 'non-customer'. they will be firm and terse. Even my placing an order for a 2012 didnt do much with the 2010 lemon process. They also will want to avoid your 'lawyering up'...many states will pay legal fees on top of the lemon. So a dealer will want to settle with you quickly once they are convinced it is a valid lemon claim.

Oh, you are ahead if you can avoid the lawyer as they ALSO take a % of the final number...most kinda gloss over that part. not crash's spouse of course. ;)

You might read some of my posts about lemoning. the tactic I took was to define the broad issue of "Diesel emissions" as the fault, with multiple codes and issues falling under my defined category. Dont think 'this part' or 'that code'...its your claim, you can decide how to spin it....

Keep us posted. PM if it isnt for publication. BMW does read stuff.

GL


A