Brake Rotor - Meyle or Zimmerman
 

Just curious, has anyone used Meyle rotors?

FCP Euro has them for $50 a piece (front) compared with $110+ for Zimmerman at other places.

My thinking is that rotors from most major manufacturers that are used for normal daily driving are very similar with minimal difference to justify a 100% price jump. In the end, it's only $100+ difference but $100 is a $100.

Wouldn't be surprised if both come from the same Chinese plant.

In general, brakes are a crummy place to save money.

If they run true and don't cause a vibration when you install them, then they will likely last as long as the next rotor. The differences apart from cost will be in surface rust, and in cooling, due to the design of the internal fins. That last one impacts brake fade, and is the biggest reason to go OE.

Haven't used Mayle rotors. I have used lots of aftermarket rotors. Given the quality and price, I would use OE.

I'm rolling the dice on a set of drilled/slotted rotors from Brakelabs, Manufactured/machined in the USA to OE specs and have a 1 yr warranty against warpage. Zinc plated to prevent rust. The '03 E53 4.4 set cost $212 with free shipping. I have a granite surface plate/surface gauge/.0005" Interapid indicator/3 point stands/.0001 micrometers and access to a dynamic balancer to verify balance. These will be inspected 100% for hub dia/flatness/parallelism/runout and balance prior to install.

They have E70 rotors too.

Using Brembo rotors, in the last iteration of my search for a perfect aftermarket braking combo. Works better than OE, in my book (and dust is not an issue for me - I have black rims :))

IMO they are hunks of metal...for a DD SUV that just carts around loved ones safely an rotor will do.

Track us, other performance goals, I'd reconsider.

Oh that 'drilled/slotted' rotor is a joke...any car guy that knows brakes will look at them and say 'poseur'. Someone said "hey if drilling is cool and slotting is cool, then lets do both and get the ricer boi crowd'...

Ricer boi? Drilled rotors have been around for over 50 years, long before the '90s import drilled rotor craze.

As for the slotting, I use the X to tow a large trailer from time to time (in severe FL rain). The slots prevent vitrification of the pad surface caused by hauling 12,000 lbs down from 80 MPH. Water dissapation from between the rotor/pad surface is also reassuring. Nothing like hitting the brakes at hwy speed during a downpour and nothing happens for a second or two.

If you choose not to use them, DON'T. Just don't dismiss everyone who does as "poseur".

You have 7000 pounds of trailer and cargo, and you are towing at 80 mph without trailer brakes? Your trailer brakes should be stopping your trailer, not your vehicle brakes. Otherwise you can find the trailer overtaking you and jackknifing. That is dangerous at the best of times, let alone in heavy rain.

I have trailer brakes on the cargo trailer I run between FL and TX. I've towed a few 3k trailers without brakes.

I think that the primary benefit of drilling rotors decades ago was in reducing unsprung weight. There was a secondary issue related to pads outgassing, but we don't use those pad compositions any more, so that is moot.

You may want to look into SAE technical paper 2006-01-0691 "The Effect of Rotor Cross Drilling on Brake Performance". Some good info. While there was a benefit in cooling, the same test results showed the rotors can run hotter (due to less thermal mass), no impact of outgassing, no difference in wet weather performance, 25-30% more pad wear, and up to a 50% reduction in thermal fatigue life.

For the rotors you show, the anti-rust coating can be good (but it will quickly wear off the friction surface). I would be most interested in the thermal performance, and the vane design. OE rotors weren't designed to be drilled, so it is intriguing that they mention OE specs. Maybe they aren't using the OE vane design.

I had two piece drilled & slotted DBA rotors on the Z. I bought Centric rotors and EBC red pads for the front of the X.

the issue is drilled ***AND** slotted.

You use one or the other.

But there is no application where both are an advantage...imo

Good article JCL

A

Zimmerman, imo.

Read it back in '07, it was hardly a search for the truth in the solid vs drilled vs slotted rotor debate. Here's why.

All data collected by the 2 GM engineers was obtained using semi-metallic pads, the primary functional mechanism of this type of pad is abrasion rather than adhesion. By contrast, non-metallic pads (read-the correct pad for drilled or slotted) are more biased towards an adhesive mechanism relying upon a transfer layer of material deposited on the rotor. Just this fact SEVERELY limits the relevancy of their test results, only a total idiot would run a semi-metallic pad on slotted or drilled rotor in a test like they ran. Semi-metallic pads are designed to operate correctly up to around 550 deg F at the contact surface, once temps above that are reached, they are subjected to severe overheating and a cheese grater effect, caused by the holes/slots.

These guys work for GM, the auto manufacturer who designed the Vette rear brakes that have pads only contacting half the rotor friction surface.
Not someone I would consider the last word in rotor debate.

The only reason I would have that paper in my "reading room" would be for the event I run out of toilet paper.

Spoke with a tech twice before purchase and asked about vane design, was told it's similar to the Brembo design. Left and right discs have separate part #s due to vane config and directional machine pattern.

I understood that all pads rely on a combination of adhesion and abrasion. The weighting changes with pad composition, but both are in play.

Did the supplier tech advise the heat saturation limits of their rotor design, with and without drilling (ie, with and without the effects of the reduced thermal mass)?

Look at which rotors are factory OEM (E53 are Ate) and if you go aftermarket, to make sure that they are TUV approved. When you have the ability to drive anywhere from 120 or 140 km/hr (the Autobahn is limited in many areas) and "as you wish" - you want parts that work.

I'm not sure that many of the cross drilled rotors come (for long term use) with a TUV paper, Zimmermann and Ate certainly do.

Agreed both are in play. Pointing out semi-metallics weigh more toward the rotor wear side, and overheat (+550 deg F) drastically accelerates the rotor failure vs carbon/brass/ceramic matrix pads.

Heat saturation #s were not discussed. Just verified they are produced from G3000 grade materal, with only 1 hole between each vane, slot position/angle leave 2 vane spaces undrilled between each holeset.

I was looking for rotors without a high void/mass ratio to keep the heat sink effect high, while still having the pad wiping effect for responsive inital bite in heavy rain. I've had pad hydroplaning in the past and this was the reason for voided rotors. BMW has addressed this issue on newer vehicles by lightly applying the brakes regularly to clear water from the pad/rotor surface (activated when the rain sensor "sees" water on the windshield).

Thanks I went with the Zimmermans.

Installed the BrakeLab rotors with Cool Carbon pads (refinished pad carriers/calipers). Burnished/transferred pad materal.....

Came across a car on the road today with drilled/slotted rotors.

You might want to cantact AMG and tell them the SRS GT is ricer, or there are NO advantages to doing both.

The CLA45 will have them too.

Doesnt change my opinion. Nor is there data to support both being superior... do you have data that says the AMG design is better? Or is this a presumptive, "if AMG does it, it MUST be better" conclusion?

like 20" rims on a 'race car' with plenty of room between the caliper and barrel... why?

Simple, marketing demands it - not engineers.



I see you bought the slotted/drilled... must stop just like the AMG now.

AMG AG would not have done it without doing its own testing and seeing a definite benefit. This would be like stating parts designed/tested by ///M group for BMW have no gains/use.

Never claimed It would stop like an AMG, just pointing out that in fact, tuning arms of major manufacturers (who extensively test different designs) do in fact drill/slot rotors. A fact you state there's no gain in doing.

Even Lockheed/AP Racing has a race application for drilled and slotted rotors. Lockheed/AP Racing has been engineering ultra-high performance brake systems for almost 100 years, was purchased by Brembo in '99.

These are without any doubt the 2 largest brake technology companies on the planet. You should contact them and let them know they got it all wrong! :dunno:

I've seen these on the ALMS GT2 BMW ///M3 prior to the 12hrs of Sebring race. Contact Rahal Letterman Racing too.

You know why tuners drill & slot rotors? Because drilled/slotted perceived as 'performance', 'upgrade' and 'sport', just like red (or yellow) calipers, stripes, stickers and huge spoilers. Between solid rotors & unpainted calipers and cool looking brake kit - which one majority would choose and will be more willing to spend $$$? Exactly.

Think about it: what is better, more or less friction surface? And why they use slicks - if allowed - on dry pavement?

LOL at the claim that AMG don't sell style accessories. Mercedes even refers to the AMG Style Package on their website. They sell whatever people will buy.

Friction force depends on the normal force and the coefficient of friction. Area doesn't enter into it. OK, it can spread the heat out, but it doesn't create more braking force. Clamp harder, change coefficient of friction, or have a larger diameter rotor (better lever). The latter is heavier, so drilling helps reduce unsprung weight with a larger rotor. Drilling the same size rotor just weakens it.

Slicks allow the use of softer rubber compounds. Tire traction for acceleration doesn't depend on tire width.

The common theme here is that racers use certain features because they allow other features which themselves have benefits. People have adopted those features because they look like the ones the racers use. Drilling stock diameter rotors is like installing a hood scoop that doesn't actually penetrate the hood. But the racers have them! Yes, but the racers design them to do something.

Agree with you completely on the marketing decisions.

Well duh, everyone who didn't skip school knows that.

Got a chance to drive these for over 1 hr on the Hwy last night, heavy rain/cool weather. The instant bite when wet brakes are applied is one of the things I was hoping for and they don't dissappoint. The 1 or 2 seconds of pad hydroplane/no braking force is totally gone (BMW operation manual states drivers should lightly depress brake pedal regularly to keep rotors warm/dry while driving in rain, who does that?). Inital bite/pedal pressure/modulation are identical hot or cold.

2 cycles of 12 near ABS activation back to back stops from 50 and 60mph down to 10mph resulted in ZERO fade or required additional pedal pressure to keep near ABS intervention (actually saw smoke from the pad binder mat'l burning off). No OE BMW system I've driven has been able to do that.

JCL, please provide link that states AMG defines SRS GT drilled/slotted rotors are for appearance. I searched this AM and could not find it.

Race on Sunday, Sell on Monday!

I put Bosch Quiet Cast rotors on the rear, which has "made in Germany" stamped on it and it has been fine and they were $60-70 a pop. This is a X5, my family hauler. As long as the car stops, that's all I care for. As long as the rotors don't warp, I'm good....

For pads, I was going to get Akebono, but ended up getting Pagid's becuase they were a little chepaer and were sold by the place I bought the Zimmerman's. Textar's I believe are OE for most BMW's but they tend to leave a lot of dust so I shy away from them if needed.

Glad they work for you. :thumbup:

I didn't state those specific rotors are only for appearance. You stated that AMG only made things that gave better performance, or they wouldn't sell them. I countered that by pointing out that they also sell style accessories. Accessories that are just for appearance. QED.

Those particular rotors may be of a larger diameter, I don't know. It would be a reasonable assumption. If they were larger, they could certainly give better performance. If as a result of being larger, they were too heavy, they could also be drilled, and actually optimized to be drilled when the cooling fins were designed, in terms of layout, thickness, thermal fatigue, etc.

But that is completely different than taking a stock sized rotor with a standard vane design and drilling it. Even if you then put an AMG badge on it.

AMG sells steering wheels. Do those steering wheels make their cars corner better?

Ok, I see what you're saying.

AMG worked over/track tested different MB models into vehicles like the E55 Hammer back in the late 80s. MB and AMG were seperate (like RUF is to Porsche to this day). MB purchased AMG about 25 yrs ago and cashed in on AMGs hardcore "form follows function" credo by putting AMG logos on almost every dress up item in their catalog. AMG is still a separate arm of MB and extensivly tests items going on the top of the MB line vehicles (the SRS GT AMG for 1). With MB buying AMG and diluting the name by AMG logoing dress up kits and steering wheels, this does not mean that AMG design/development of items such as brake rotors for the SRS GT AMG are dress-up only.

BMW puts the ///M logo on steering wheels too, by your logic this means ///M division is "dress-up" only with no added performance on the ///M developed/tested vehicles.

Ok, I see what you're saying.

AMG worked over/track tested different MB models into vehicles like the E55 Hammer back in the late 80s. MB and AMG were seperate (like RUF is to Porsche to this day). MB purchased AMG about 25 yrs ago and cashed in on AMGs hardcore "form follows function" credo by putting AMG logos on almost every dress up item in their catalog. AMG is still a separate arm of MB and extensivly tests items going on the top of the MB line vehicles (the SRS GT AMG for 1). With MB buying AMG and diluting the name by AMG logoing dress up kits and steering wheels, this does not mean that AMG design/development of items such as brake rotors for the SRS GT AMG are dress-up only.

BMW puts the ///M logo on steering wheels too, by your logic this means ///M division is "dress-up" only with no added performance on the ///M vehicles with ///M designed/developed/tested parts.

FWIW, The reduced weight of drilled/slotted rotors was a consideration when I chose them. Whenever I replace unsprung parts I go light. My 285x19 rears are under 50 lbs with full tread (could have gone with the "look" of 315 x 20 but didn't want the added weight). The carbon/ceramic pads are a few pounds lighter per set then OE and Aftermarket semi-metallics. With one pound reduction in unsprung weight/rotational mass being roughly equivelant to 7 lbs sprung weight in regard to performance, I am always reminded of Mark Donohue and his "froghairs" statement. Reducing unsprung weight also has the same effect as installing stiffer swaybars/springs/shocks in regard to handling. My wheel, tire, rotor and pad choices all worked toward this. My ultralight wheels are only rated for 680kg, I have to swap to the OE 255-18s when I tow.

Not at all, to conclude that would be a logical fallacy.

If you claimed that every M part makes the car go faster, as you implied with your AMG example originally (AMG AG would not have done it without doing its own testing and seeing a definite benefit), then the steering wheel example would challenge that claim.

But the existence of M labelled steering wheels doesn't imply that there are no M parts that make a car go faster. You just can't conclude that the existence of an M label, or in your example an AMG label, in and of itself, would make a car go faster.

My statement you quoted was in regard to the rotors developed by AMG for the SRS GT. I never made any statement to the effect of "if it has a tuner logo, it must make the car better". You and ard started that crap. Rotors designed/developed/tested by AMG and ///M do increase brake performance. Steering wheels don't.

You both know full well what the intent of my statement was, yet chose to direct it toward "dress up" items.

You used the example of a specific AMG rotor to back up your claim that drilled and slotted rotors must be good. I know what it looks like to me, but style is subjective, so that doesn't matter much. The only thing I know about the performance of that rotor is that it has an AMG badge on it. I simply said that isn't good enough. If there is data that AMG developed that rotor and during that product development phase they compared versions with and without holes and/or slots, that would be very relevant. And interesting. In the absence of that data, your contention was simply that it is from AMG, so it must be higher performance.

Sideline, but is that picture the standard brake, or the optional ceramic one? I am assuming you were referring to the AMG SLS GT, as they don't list an SLR. I looked at the photos. On this version, they added red seat belts too. Looks good.

Even without seeing testing/development data I would bet the standard drilled/slotted cast iron rotors on the SLS GT AMG are that way for performance. Manufacturers are looking to squeeze every bit out of these vehicles to achieve the best perf data #s possible when compared to the competition, sales #s hang in the balance.

The +$200k, 200mph supercar market is much too competitive to leave performance out to keep the ricer bunch happy.

I wonder why Indy, F1 and Nascar use rotors which are not slotted or drilled?

F1 should not even enter into this topic. They use carbon/carbon rotor/pads, these actually have an increase in friction as temp rises (driver actually DECREASES pedal force to keep from locking wheels as rotor/pad temp rises). Stand on the brake pedal at 150mph in an F1 car and NOTHING happens for a few seconds with stone cold rotors.

Nascar does, in fact, use slotted rotors on short tracks and road courses.

Not sure about Indycar, but having been to dozens of endurance races at LeMans, Sebring, Daytona, Road America, Watkins Glen..... for FIA, ALMS, Grand AM...... (all of these series are more similar to actual road cars), actually running AP Racing or Stop Tech slotted or drilled slotted rotors, and distances are sometimes more then 6 times longer vs Indy and N'car.

A major factor in the solid vs drilled vs slotted application is pad choice/compound.

I achieved instant brake bite with cold wet rotors, I found the delay annoying while towing on the hwy, increased pad wear is a small price to pay for shorter stopping distances at hwy speed. N'car never deals with wet rotors.

Update on F1s use of drilled rotors.
Austin TX F1 Grand Prix had a few teams running rotors with "cooling/ventilating" holes in Saturday qualifying. Guess it's big news because they had on board cameras showing them on track/in use.