The dreaded "base audio" upgrade...
 

So... I'm hoping for some clarification on a few things.

1) I've read plenty about the Focal 100KRSs, IFBMW-S and Cs, but both seem to have a pretty high price to value ratio...and I'm wondering how they compare to something like a Infinity Kappa setup? Any thoughts?

2) Since I have the base audio "system" and the stock head unit outputs "processed" signals to the fronts, rears, and subs... should I get something that advertises to sum the signals first before amping it? Would something like the Zapco DC 656 do that for me? Or the Audison Bit Ten? Or the JL CL-SSI??????? It's all so confusing!

I suppose the speakers are trivial if I can't work out how to process the signal first. I'd really appreciate any suggestions all of you could offer me!!

I've got the stage 1 upgrade and ghost sub and the spec dock from www.bavsound.com it's amazing!

Anyone else? I've heard mixed reviews about the Bav upgrade.

No experience with BAv but I can vouch for the JL stealthbox for the e70. It sounds so good and the fitment under ther rear hatch is perfect.

I just upgraded the front stage in my 11 x5 with a Gladen One 201 Extreme speaker set and a mosconi 120.4 DSP amp. Its a real nice setup that works well as an upgrade to the base stereo in the 3,5 and x5. I've only run it a few days but its a huge improvment over the base system with allot more clarity, sharp highs, and strong bass.

In the x5 the thing thats a challenge is that the 4" mids have to be rather shallow to fit in the door, there are only a few models that fit (Bav sound, Focal's, Gladen's) without much modification.

The above kit replaces the 4" mid's, adds tweeters and crossovers that fit in the oem location and replaces the underseat 6" woofers with a 2 ohm 8" version. Everything is almost a direct fit but you need longer screws for both the 4" and 8" speakers and washers to raise the oem cover on the 8" woofers.

The install is pretty easy and you dont even have to take the iDrive out, you can just intercept the signal under the seat and run the Hi-level to the amp and then just run new lines for the 8" woofer (and use the existing lines to drive the door mids/tweeters).

One thing that is really good about the amp is that it has onbaord DSP which I would say is a must as the base system modifies the front signal (+6 ~50hz, etc, etc) and the DSP allows you to correct for this. Also the DSP level adjustment lets you tune the levels such that the gongs and PDC are as oem and not painfully loud as allot of people have had problems with the alpine upgrade. Also the DSP has a full crossover built in so you can isolate Hi/Lo freq to the 4"mid/tweeters and 8" woofers respectively.

sounds amazing! I wonder how the Gladdens sound compared to the MB Quart... I see that they have a similar upgrade with the QM200.3. Where did you find them in the US?

Im in Canada and actually had mine shipped from Germaniks in europe (they were really helpful and got the package here in just over a week). In the states you can try Musicar Northeast in Seattle, I believe they are the authorized dealer

eh, i just did the bavsound upgrade on my wife's base audio x5 and was not overly impressed. their speakers seem to be of ok quality, but are nothing amazing. note that what looks like a hefty magnet online is actually just a thick rubber cosmetic magnet surround that seems to serve no purpose. if you are looking for a cheap solution for speaker replacement while keeping everything else stock, it might work. it sounds like you are looking for something more though. i'll probably leave them in as it is my wife's car and she didn't even mind the base system. only other thing i'll say is there is no way in hell i'd swap out my stock logic7 speakers in my e90 for the bav speakers. just my .02

Sorry to hear this, but I'm not surprised given what I've read on this BavSound package. Most people have said the same thing as you….

What year is your X5 BTW? Do you have the legit 'base' sound system (S645A - BMW US Radio) or do you at least have the 'Hi-Fi' sound system (S676A)? In 2012 BMW ditched the 'base' system (S645A) and every X5 got at least S676A (Hi-Fi Speaker System), unless you opted for the Premium Sound Package (S677A). I've done no research on pre-LCI models, but I do know 2011 35i's without Premium Sound have the 'base' system (S645A) which I've heard, and it's terrible. If you have a 2011 50i, or a 2012 35i or 50i, you don't have to worry about this awful sound package even if you don't have the Premium Sound Package. Hopefully that made sense…

that does make sense.... i've done a fair bit of research and did not realize that was the timing of everything. indeed i am 99% sure i do have the true "base" (not hifi) system. my x5 is a 2011 35i 10/10 build lci, with no tweeters. pretty sure that makes it the base system. btw one of the lamest moves yet i've seen bmw make to have tweeter pods in car with a $63k sticker (premium package, technology, and some other stuff) and no tweeters in there. haha at least they fixed that soon after by at least giving hifi as the entry level.

Yes - timing (build date) is everything - combox, LED coronas, paddles, etc.

To confirm you could run your VIN through a decoder but given your vehicle year/model and the empty tweeter mounts it sounds like you already know what you have. It's too bad it's so expensive to properly upgrade the sound in these X5's.

If you're interested in getting a clean signal (no DSP, fully balanced) from the head unit to start with instead of the amplified signal w/ DSP you have now, you can add the HiFi option $676 to the vehicle options and default code the affected modules (CIC, PDC, etc.). This switches the outputs coming out of the HU and makes it a much better and clean signal to start with. No more having to "undo" the DSP added to the base system. This is the route I took and it worked perfectly.

does this affect the power going to the speakers at all, or just the signal processing?

Both. Just to give a better explanation:

The base audio system contains six speakers: a mid-range in each of the four doors along with two 6.5" subwoofers under the front seats. The speakers are driven directly by the head unit (no external amp) and the front channel is shared between the front door mids and the subwoofers so that's one of the reasons for the added DSP. Also, since there are no tweeters in the sails they use DSP to drive the highs way up there. For this reason if you don't either remove or undo the DSP, and you drive an external amp directly from the OEM base audio signal, it will sound like crap. For more info read the first post here by VP Electricity/el duderino, who detailed a build he did on a 2010 X5: http://www.xoutpost.com/electronics/...intensive.html

The HiFi audio system (option $676) has more speakers but more importantly it uses an external amp to drive them so that's why the signal coming out of the HU is 'clean'. Any DSP added in the HiFi system is done by the amp, not the HU.

There is one drawback with recoding, though. You are telling the vehicle that you have the BMW OEM amp installed so if you need to have it serviced and BMW hooks up the diagnostic equipment it will fail when it tries to query the amp because it doesn't exist. From what I've heard they cannot continue with the diagnostics because the software doesn't let them. I find that a little hard to believe and think there must be a way to skip that module and continue, but for me I would probably just remove $676 from the VO before getting service. BTW, for regular service it won't be a problem, it's only when they need to read fault codes from the entire car where it fails because it ends up querying all modules.

Also, if you search around you will find that some people have complained that the chimes/gongs and PDC beeps were either too loud or soft (I can't remember which) after adding $676. This is true even for the official Alpine upgrade that BMW supports. The issue is that when you add an option to the vehicle it may affect more than one module. For example, with the HiFi system with external amp, it obviously affects the head unit (CIC module) but it also affects the module(s) that control other sounds like the gongs and park distance control beeps. When you add $676 to the VO you have to "default code" all affected modules so that they can reconfigure themselves based on the updated information in the VO. e.g. HU: I now have an external amp so let me switch my outputs to the fully balanced signal with DSP disabled. What many people forget to do is default code the other modules. I can't remember what additional modules I default coded but initially I had that problem until I found it. I definitely did the CIC and PDC modules, and may have also done the footwell module, but whatever it was it fixed the issue for me immediately.

I know it's a lot of info to take in and sounds like a bit of a pain to manage but if you are familiar with coding it's really, really easy to do and also really easy to restore if you need have service.

This x 1000000!! I bought my '10 as a CPO and to be honest, I was so focused on the other options that I never even thought about checking out the sound system. It never crossed my mind that BMW would put such a lackluster system in a $60k+ vehicle so I stupidly never even tried it out before buying (duh). Boy, was I wrong about that. My wife has a 3 series with the Logic7 system which sounds great compared to the base system I had. But seriously, BMW?

^ Good info above.

So what does the Premium Sound Package (S677A) add over the 'Hi-Fi' system (S676A)? I originally passed on my X5 as I wanted Premium Sound but the Hi-Fi sounded good enough for us. Really just wanted to avoid S645A as that one was noticeably weak.

I'm no expert on this but from what I understand even more speakers and the raw signal is sent through fiber optics instead of copper. Also there's a graphic equalizer where you can tweak the sound a bit better. I think if you add this option to the VO then the outputs of the HU basically shut off since the signal is going through fiber, but I'm not positive about that either.

Thanks for the detailed info above. What's so funny is this is the first car ever where I have found the best audio results by turning treble and bass both almost all the way down.. guess I know why now.

Only other advice I have for op is to check out musicarnw if not already mentioned. That guy seems to know what he's doing and he deals in high end stuff that apparently is bolt in replacement.

As for my lame system.. does anyone know where I might find some used hifi or top hifi underseat woofers to replace the crappy base stereo 6.5" ones? Thought maybe that would give a slight improvement over the stock ones without going the amp route..

You should check if the resistance is the same. The base system runs the woofer and door speaker in parallel so that the resistance is 2 ohms I believe (4 + 4). Also if you use the 8" premium woofer (providing resistance isn't an issue) you would have to make you own connector as the 6 1/2" woofer has a 4 pin plug and the 8" woofer has a 2 pin plug.

ugh, really? curse you bmw.

hey can anyone tell me what this is? it looks like an amp but i thought the base system does not have an amp..

Looks like a Combox module. Base audio definitely does not have an external amp.

ah thanks

minor update -- tried one bav midrange in the back doors and it made no difference vs. stock. in fact, stock sounded a little better. so i'm keeping the rears stock. funny, i've read that at least one of the pro installers that do a lot of bmws (systems costing thousands) will not touch the back door speakers as they don't really make any difference up front according to him.

only thing left for me is to see if there is any way of getting better base out of the central woofers without adding an amp. even though everyone says it won't work, i'm going to try an sws-8 off of the stock headunit. will post results.

Of course you can try but from what I understand the Earthquakes need more power to be effective. I used them in my X5 and they sound great but I'm using a Zapco 650.6 to power them as well as my other speakers.

can anyone confirm that the x5 base system (2011 vintage) uses 4 ohm underseat woofers? the door midranges are 4 ohms (i removed them so i know).. but are the woofers also 4 ohm?

think i might blow the headunit if i try a 2 ohm woofer (if the base really is 4 ohm)??

I just checked mine and they are labeled as 4 ohms. I totally forgot how light and cheesy they are. No wonder there is such little bass.

thanks for checking..

another minor update. i changed my mind about leaving the rears stock and i believe i have figured out a solution i am happy with. i happened to notice that the center channel from an e90 is a direct fit for the e70 rear doors. i was under the impression from what i had read elsewhere that the e90 and e70 speakers were different sizes :dunno:. are the door and center channels on the e90 different sizes? anyway, the e90 center channel fits the e70 doors. results:

e90 logic7 center -- better than stock, but not by a whole lot. bass is tiny bit better and it seems to play a little louder. not really worth it imo.

e90 individual audio center channel coaxial -- not amazing but better than stock base audio midrange. of course you would expect the treble to be improved since you are adding a tweeter..

next step is to try the individual audio separates up front i guess...

All door speakers in the e70 base system are that smaller e90 size (center channel and rear door/shelf speaker size)
I actually changed all my door speakers to that logic 7 speaker and added the smaller logic 7 tweeters to the blank door triangles. Did not do the rears even though I do have a set laying around as the issue with rear door tweeters are the base door cards do not have the cutout.
Hope that info helps

Just my 2 cents, if anyone thinking about upgrading a top hifi sound system in their E70 X5, don't do it. The components are not inferior. If you look inside a top hifi amplifier you will see discrete circuitry with Rubicon Blackgate caps. The amps are made by Lear Corporation. The speakers are carbon fiber and have small but powerful neodymium magnets, Siemens Polypropylene caps for the tweets, The Subs are made by ETON. If the sound is not good it is because the inside plastic panels need rubberized sound deadening. Do that and you will save yourself from destroying your car. Somehow Bavauto generaly says how cheap the BMW speakers are, mine are 8 years old and never had issues. The only issues I had were rattling panels when I cranked it up, that is all history now. Their is also a provision on top high fi amplifiers where you can add a cooling fan which can be had for 5 dollars at newegg.com. I will say, before 2006 BMW audio sucked. Base audio model need alot of help. Just my 2 cents.

I finally decided on MB Quart set for my X5... only question now is, how do I get the cheap 6.5" sub out of the plastic enclosure? Mine looks to be glued in place. Some other pictures show for screws/bolts at the corners...

@SchweetMunkie - Please keep us updated on your progress. I have the base audio in my 2011 X5 35i Sport Activity. Although, I don't think it sounds as bad as others say, I wouldn't mind some small upgrades. Maybe starting with putting tweeters in the empty covers! I will definitely subscribe to this thread and follow your progress. Thanks!

Whats up fellas!

A couple of weeks ago I placed my order with BavAuto, they are having a great deal something like 45% off plus an additional 10% off if you get there newsletter. Long story short, I have the PIECE OIF SHIT base audio setup, with NO tweeters and NO front mid speaker.

Done some extensive research and read plenty of reviews and the best deal out there without going really high end and blowing a grand is the BavAuto. The one disappointing fact is they have a 6 to 8 week delivery on the kits. I called in and the guy I spoke to was extremely helpful and it seemed like a decent upgrade.

Sitting tight and waiting for it to arrive, will post up a review once installed!

Happy Holidays everyone...

I ended up just finding a set of logic 7 speakers and it enables me to have tweaters in the OeM location no modifications and it sounds great

This is great to hear. Did you notice a significant improvement? This may be a dumb question, but are the speaker wires already run to the empty tweeter location? Sure don't want to get into the dash!

Also, what model number did you use? There are several different versions of the tweeters on Ebay.

Appreciate the input!

yes there was a great improvement.
the tweeters actually pig tail off the mid speakers.
they have 2 ports, 1 for the audio in, and 1 for tweeter out.
tweeters were very easy to install.
there are a bunch of different part numbers that are all the same logic 7 but out of different cars/ model years.

4x of this 6513 9143121-01 or 65139142512

tweeter part number 2x 65136964012

Bumping this oldie: Anyone recently do anything to improve base audio? I ahd the logic 7 HK system in my e90 and freaking loved it. The basic X5 system just doesnt hold a candle to it. I'm hunting around for a set of the front mid and tweeter L7 speakers, and I guess that'll be my attempt to improve the sound quality. I sure do miss those 9" subs under the front seats though....

Evil chimes
 

New to me, 07 E70 with nav, top hifi. I upgraded front door speakers, and added aftermarket amp between OEM amp and these speakers plus the under seats. So remaining speakers are fed by original amp, not aftermarket one.
Now the PDC, and other chimes are crazy loud! Either due to more efficient speakers and/ or the new amp. Any way to code volume of chimes, or select which speakers the warning bells go to so as to avoid the front door speakers? My idrive unit CCC does not have a volume setting for “Tone” as some other posters have suggested.
Going deaf thx