Limp Mode - Many codes
 

Hey Guys,
Haven't posted in ages. Mostly lurking these days. Can you help me decipher Service Advisor email?

Codes are:
P0069
P0101
P0401
P0420
P0671
P2279

Also, apparently, the battery that's in it from the original dealership is the wrong one.:wow:

1. What do you mean by "wrong" battery? Be specific. "Oh the sa said it isnt the right one" isnt. ;)

2. Be careful. The SA is playing with YOUR money. You need to ask "WHEN did each code first occur?" Engine operating hours are OK. Also ask which are active. I sense a major screwing coming up here.

3. Read up on carbon fouling in the 335d forums. THIS IS A MUST. You will see that BMW has a problem and SOME owners are getting screwed...some are getting BMW to cover issues. It will be worth your time, IMO. I think the cleaning is 2-3k.

Do not let them do too much or suck you in too far.

My 2 cents

Thanks Ard I was hoping you'd reply to this :) My SA is a total Ditz...

I can't get a straight answer from her and our current discussion is hell bent on me buying a new filter from her.

Back story:

several months ago, the x5 threw a cel for open circuit in glow plug cylinder 1. I took it to my independent and he replaced the glow plug but no joy in clearing the code so his next step was going to be to change out the controller. After some discussion, he suggested that it wasn't a necessity at this point and that I could drive the vehicle.

About a month later, She went into limp mode when downshifting as I was leaving my house. I turned around and parked her in the garage for another month till I had time to deal with it. (drove my other vehicle)

Now the time has come where I need the vehicle so I'm dealing with it. Battery had died in my garage so I jumped it and that's when I got to read the codes.

I had it towed to the dealership and that's where it sits. I'm asking my SA for detailed info: "Trouble Code - Remedy for trouble code - Is it covered/why/why not" Her responses are vague:
She's adamant that not replacing the filter will cause a fault so my last message to her asked if that fault would prevent me from driving the vehicle. I know.. I know.. it's just $57 but I'm having a hard time swallowing $57 for a $20 Mann Filter. Hell I could swap it out for a K&N for that.


Edit: Oh yeah her explanation for the battery was that the one in the vehicle has lower voltage than what it's supposed to have which doesn't make any sense whatsoever. I've asked for an explanation so that I can go back to the dealership I bought it from but she hasn't answered. I can only assume she meant to say wrong amperage.

Id be more annoyed with the $220 wasted mucking about looking for carbon they werent going to cover.

You can see in her message that she has been "trained" to blame "external issues" and "bad gas"...this is the littany that BMW has propogated due to their design defects that cause fouling of the secondary air passages in many models of their car.

If you've read the 335d threads BMW **DOES** cover the cleaning when owners are sharp and pin them down.

Pay her the $$$. It is FAR better than a POS K&N.

I wouldnt let them do any work until they start gving clear cogent answers. A "Stop All Work" letter, FAXED to the dealer with a copy in the mail, CC to the general manager will get serious attention. If it gets to that... time for a 'come to Jesus' conversation. She may ne Ditzy..or she may be purposefully being vague. Or I suppose the deadly combo of 'both'..

The E70 does not really have issues with carbon build up. Air flow faults can be caused by many thing. But, the primary reason the HFM is needed is to know if the EGR rates are correct.
Can you post the BMW codes? - the dealer should provide those.

So the battery was not retrofitted and registered - no going to cause the other issues - IMO.

I read "glow plugs", "egr" and immediately think of thermostat. On another forum, lcapital and ninja users did a good analysis and pretty much proved that low coolant temperature causes glow plugs to go bad, in addition to EGR and DPF issues, because regeneration simply does not happen.

the last thing she tried to tell me last night was that If we didn't replace the filter and it threw a fault, they'd have to take the intake manifold off again.

My reply was basically why the hell would you have to take the intake manifold off to change an air filter!?

Still no code explanations.

Sounds like you have CPO. Don't pay them a dime. Anything they do to try and figure out why there are fault codes is their problem. BMW is specific about fault code-->check this-->check this next etc. etc. If they took your intake off to look at carbon build up it either was to figre out why they were getting a fault code or not. If they don't get paid by BMW for doing that, that's their problem, not yours. As long as there are issues/fault codes they get to fix it. BMW is NOT cool about techs throwing parts at cars, so they deny stuff all the time, but that does NOT mean you get to pick up the tab.

I had an overheating issue on my 335xi, CPO still. They replaced the thermostat. Picked car up, car died 15 miles later spewing coolant. Water pump had gone bad, thermostat was never the issue. They replaced the water pump and then a month later sent me a letter asking me to pay them for the thermostat as BMW had denied that claim since it wasn't the thermostat in the first place. I said no, its your job to find what's broken and fix it. Your guessing isn't my problem. I called BMWNA and they confirmed that, and they in fact called the dealership and yelled at them for even billing me.

Bottom line, it's CPO, make them fix it and don't pay for a SINGLE thing that they 'think' needs done to maybe 'see' if that's the issue. She's a screaming moron, or the tech, or both, but you shouldn't have to pay for that.

And the air filter won't throw a code and they probably smashed it taking things off/on. I'd tell them you'll give them dealer cost for the filter or you'll bring one in. They can NOT tell you what filter to use, so one from another source is fine. They also can't void your warranty for a non-oem part. They'd have to prove that part caused the issue and there's no way another manufacturer is going to make an air filter that'd do that--or your attorney would have their hide.

Also, the carbon build up has been beaten to death on the 335 N54, the 335d and the X5d. The bottom line is BMW designed a junk system and has had to take steps to fix it. If it affects an emission component, they HAVE TO FIX IT. They do not have a choice. If they give you any flack, tell them you're going to call the EPA and report them for an emission warranty violation. It's a no BS deal. If something is malfunctioning (DPF not regenerating etc) it's a serious issue and they have to fix it. Further, the EPA is forcing mfgs to extend warranty coverage on the DPF systems that are having problems as it causes a huge pollution issue. A buddy is a duramax tech, and they were just forced to replace the entire DPF/EGR system on a 2008 duramax that had 575,000 miles on it. The EPA didn't care, said the system should work for the 'life' of the vehicle and the truck still ran otherwise.

If the carbon builds up to a point it clogs a sensor or the EGR or soemthing like that (and you get a readable fault), the'll have to fix it. They'll try and get you to pay for non-standard maintenance (carbon blasting) but that's for the uninformed consumer. And 'bad gas' is BS, she's an idiot. All diesel is ultra low sulfur in the US anymore and it has to meet certain requirements. There's no such thing as 'bad gas' when it comes to diesel fuel anymore. Water sometimes, yes, but that'll cause different issues.

The EPA doensn't play ball. Ask for the GSM next time she sends you some bonehead email.

So what was the resolution? My x35d threw many of these codes yesterday and is now in reduced power mode.

I pulled and cleaned my EGR but no joy.

I just got a P0101 and P0112 codes the other day. Goes in limp mode, would love to know what to clean/change first.

My mechanic replaced the Fuel Injection Pressure Sensor on the top drivers side of the intake manifold. Part # 13627792260. It fixed my condition. It's a $50 part and now that I know it's easily accessible for DIY.

I took mine out and cleaned it, it wasnt that dirty but my issues are not fixed.
So you had all those codes come up and changing this sensor fixed it all?
If thats the case i would be willing to try it for $50 versus a new MAF, which is one of my codes.

Yes, that fixed my issue. My mechanic actually started with installing a new MAF but we still had problems so that's what led him to change the pressure sensor.

He returned the MAF.

I replaced the sensor, $77, but the light is back, grrr! Ill reset the light and give it another day.

What code shows for you?

Take out the maf and give it a good cleaning with MAF Cleaner. If that helps, replace the MAF.

Check the female MAF terminals and make sure they are tight.

I have also seen problems where the connection breaks right in the MAF connector for one common wire as well.

OBDII tool with Live/Realtime data, watch Intake Air Temp and/or MAF reading and wiggle the wiring and see if the signals drop out at all.

In the I6 engines also sometimes see the MAF wiring break near the throttle body junction box.

Rarely is this type of problem going to be the MAF.

MAF has been cleaned few times already and the connections look good but i havent traced the wires to the TB, i should do that. So far i replaced the air intake temp sensor and the fuel injection pressure sensor and still getting the same codes after driving 10 miles or so.

Here is what im getting:
4BC2 - Air mass sensor
4BC6 - Intake frequency too low
4831 - Intake air temp sensor

Stop with the parts replacement at this point.

Lets start with basic facts.

Confirm year, model and engine. I see something in your signature line, however, I never want to assume anything as often people have multiple cars or have an outdated signature.

You are using some sort of BMW tool to gather codes. What tool are you using? Do you have Freeze Frame info? What about Live/Realtime data?

HIGHLY suggest you get an OBDII smart phone App and interface, these are FAR more suited for driveability troubleshooting.

Get an OBDII smart phone/tablet App and interface, typically $30 or less. These Apps are usually best for drivability issues and they support Emission Readiness Monitor Status, Freeze Frame and Live/Realtime data. They are also great for Logging data for review after the car has been driven and can really help find unusual problems.

Android - Touch Scan for $5.00 and ELM327 OBDII to Bluetooth interface.

iProduct - OBD Fusion for $9.99 and ELM327 OBDII to Wifi interface.

Some people prefer to have an extension cable to keep the interface away from their feet.

Something like these cables are often of interested:

Amazon.com: ASSEM® OBD-II OBD2 16-Pin Male to Female Diagnostic Extension Cable 100cm: Automotive

Amazon.com: Diageng OBDII Extension Cable, 5ft (144201): Automotive

I usually suggest getting the OBDII interfaces from Amazon if you are located in the US/North America. Make sure you choose an interface that indicates that the order will be "Fulfilled by Amazon" otherwise you may be waiting for WEEKS for an interface to arrive from Asia. Ebay is another option, but pay attention where the interface will be shipped from, again weeks for an interface from Asia, so if you can wait and want to try to save some money, go for it, but if you need an interface soon, choose wisely.

Thanks for the help.
2011 x5d 105k miles on it, dealer serviced till 100k under warranty.
I have the Carly app with their dongle so thats where im getting the codes and i can see live data with the parameters screen.

You need something other than Carly, not impressed with this App for driveability.

You should be able to use the wireless device that you are using for Carly with either Touch Scan for Android or OBDFusion if iProducts.

I would like see Freeze Frame info and a Log.

Here is my problem, do not have much BMW Diesel experience, however, I do have a LOT of experience across many makes and models.

What I can say is unlike many of the current models, the MAF on your car is a 3 wire MAF and does not have the IAT integrated into it.

Since you are seeing both MAF and IAT problems, I would expect there may be something common across these.

BUT, I HIGHLY recommend either Touch Scan or OBDFusion depending on your platform, assume you are running Android so Touch Scan is only $5.

Ok i will get that now and test it out later today, whats another $5 at this point :p I will report back,m thanks for the help man, appreciate it.

No problem.

While Carly has its merits, like MANY vehicle specific tools it FALLS ON ITS FACE when it comes to OBDII support.

I think you will find Touch Scan an eye opener and with both tools hopefully you can gather the data to see what is going on.

I will attempt to get you through part of the learning curve with Touch Scan so others here can see what is going on.

Also set up a DropBox Free account if you do not have one. DO NOT DOWNLOAD AND INSTALL THE DROPBOX SOFTWARE ON YOUR COMPUTER, SKIP THIS.

Then enter your DropBox user name and password in the App under DropBox and you can seamlessly upload the Logs and then share them with the URL link from DropBox.

Air intake temp shows -40c as the car was idling, that seem right?
I already replaced this sensor with a new one couple weeks ago.

This is what I am getting at, being able to see the data makes a difference. Touch Scan should be able to read this as well, but the problem/key issue is if you can Log the data stream you can then see if this value reads correctly, then jumps to -40C.

If the sensor is easy to access, I would disconnect it and see what temp value is displayed, then put a jumper across the connector to see what value is displayed.

One way should be a - (negative) extreme, the other way should be a + (positive) extreme. If unplugging and putting a jumper across the connector does not change anything, there is then likely a wiring problem, assuming there is not coolant/water damage back at the DME connector, which I do not know as a problem with these models, but it can happen.

Chances there is a common connection point that is broken or damaged? But I do not have a wiring diagram handy. Might try and see if Workshop Manuals has anything online.

A test light, not an LED version, might be a good tool to check for a ground and/or supply a resistive signal back to the DME, but be careful with this and make sure you understand how the circuit works before you try this.

Example of DME coolant damage - Fuel injector, possible DME issue? HELP! - E46Fanatics

Took it to a trusted BMW indy shop and they said the software is the original, 2-9-2010 and said getting the update may fix these issues.
Anyone have an input on this? Im going to ask the dealer if they can do it as a courtesy since the car was bought and serviced from there all its life.

Doubt the DME/DDE update will resolve your current problem. DME/DDE software would have been a problem far before 100k miles.

Also do not expect the dealer to do this as a courtesy, maybe they will but expect around $200, which in my opinion is on the high side.

You need to figure out why the IAT is reading -40C, my guess is a broken wire/bad connection? This also be impacting the MAF reading as well, there may be a common problem that impacts both sensors.

I traced the wires from the sensor and didnt see anything and all the connections clip in nicely, not sure what the issue is. Grrr!!

For the IAT, 2 tests.

Disconnect and leave the sensor connector free/disconnected. See what the temp states.

Put a jumper across where the sensor would be. See what the temp states.

One way you should have the -40C, the other way you should have a max value, not sure what this would be, maybe something like 115-120C/

You should be able to see 2 states. I just do not know if the IAT sensor is Positive or Negative Temperature Coefficient. You can try research this and then figure if there is a wiring or sensor problem.

Ugh, now im getting the passive tank sensor error.
I used Peak DEF to refill it, i wonder if that has anything to do with it.

no.

UPDATE:
After some wire checking with the volt meter, i concluded that the wires are fine.
I read here in a post that MAF throws a cell but the AIT doesnt when they go bad. Since i replaced the AIT already and still got the same codes, i concluded that the MAF was bad.
Ordered one from RockAuto ($189) and installed it.
The new MAF fixed the issues i been having with the sensors. Still have the DEF codes but those are differen issues.

Thanks for the help from fellas who directed me in checking the wires and for giving insight.

Rock Auto price was the cheapest i seen for a OEM BOSCH part so go check them out of you need a MAF or other parts. (Im not affiliated with them at all)