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-   -   Anyone Know What This Maintenance Reminder Is For? (https://xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-forums/x5-e70-forum/99228-anyone-know-what-maintenance-reminder.html)

bawareca 12-17-2014 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ard (Post 1020513)
Picture fine. you on a phone?

Do you know what a tamper dot is? Anyone read your DME during the pre purchase inspection?

Tampering dot is gone with E39,E46 and E53.The system is a bit more complicated now,definitely not possible for amateurs to do a rollback.

toicy4ya 12-17-2014 05:47 PM

So i checked into my local BMW service station in Port Chester NY just to get an idea of what it might be. The person behind the service counter stated the VTG oil needs to be replaced in the transfer case.

Not quite sure what that is. Ive never had that done before. He quoted me about $150 labor plus the oil. Parts had the oil for $25 a quart.

He mentioned the service notification can go on at 60k, 100k or when needed.

bawareca 12-17-2014 06:01 PM

I have code only for the VTG(transfer case) oil condition in my '06 530xit,but it had 170 k miles.
A sensor measures the resistance of the oil in the transfer case.More parts wear inside,more metal pieces in the oil,resistance decreases.At a predetermined point a code is set.

ZetaTre 12-17-2014 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bawareca (Post 1020560)
A sensor measures the resistance of the oil in the transfer case.More parts wear inside,more metal pieces in the oil,resistance decreases.At a predetermined point a code is set.

That's the first time I hear such a thing: what's your source?

ZetaTre 12-17-2014 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bawareca (Post 1020449)
All BMW fluids are "lifetime" :nanana: ,so must be something else.

This is not true: most are, not all.

The TC oil is definitely not lifetime and albeit some SA claim otherwise, the owner's manual states the transmission fluid (at least for the ZF-6HP, don't know about the 8 speed) is 100K miles. The brakes have a fluid which is also not lifetime.

ZetaTre 12-17-2014 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bawareca (Post 1020520)
Tampering dot is gone with E39,E46 and E53.The system is a bit more complicated now,definitely not possible for amateurs to do a rollback.

Also incorrect: the E70 has a manipulation dot that appears between the trip and the odometer (IIRC). It works the same way it has always done which is comparing the odometer recorded in the instrument cluster with the one store in the CAS.

PS: not trying to be a dick here since I'm sure you're trying to help, just correcting inaccuracies that do nothing more than a dis-service...

bawareca 12-17-2014 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZetaTre (Post 1020578)
....

Obviously I know nothing about BMW,mostly pretending that have some knowledge,or 20 years experience with BMWs.

From Pelican parts:

" The transfer case fluid condition is monitored by the transfer case control module. In theory, you will be notified when a service is due on the info display via the transfer case control module. "

BMW E90 Transfer Case Fluid Replacement | E91, E92, E93 | Pelican Parts DIY Maintenance Article

ZetaTre 12-17-2014 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bawareca (Post 1020592)
Obviously I know nothing about BMW,mostly pretending that have some knowledge,or 20 years experience with BMWs.

No need to engage in reductio ad absurdum: I never said you knew nothing. Actually I find your posts very informative. It just happened that in this post you made definitive statements on a couple of things which turned out to be inaccurate and I thought it was helpful to point them out.

We all learn from experience, but sometime the First Law of Clarke gets in the way...

Quote:

Originally Posted by bawareca (Post 1020592)
From Pelican parts:

" The transfer case fluid condition is monitored by the transfer case control module. In theory, you will be notified when a service is due on the info display via the transfer case control module. "

BMW E90 Transfer Case Fluid Replacement | E91, E92, E93 | Pelican Parts DIY Maintenance Article

Now back on the subject at hand: I was not questioning the fact that the VTG control module monitors oil status. I was questioning the fact that it uses "a sensor measures the resistance of the oil in the transfer case.More parts wear inside,more metal pieces in the oil,resistance decreases."

I've never heard of such sensor, for sure the ATC 700 in my 35d and the ATC 400 in my X3 don't have it and they simply monitored oil indirectly by tracking use and extrapolating the remaining useful life of the oil. Given the very limited gears in the transfer case the primary contaminant of oil comes from the wear of the clutch plates.

The link you posted doesn't mention it nor does any of the BMW literature I have; perhaps you read it elsewhere (hopefully not a forum post ;))

JCL 12-17-2014 11:50 PM

Perhaps this will help.

So we are agreed that the alert is for the transfer case. Yes, it is condition based monitoring, but not via a sensor in the oil. That is the engine oil condition sensor, and it measures capacitance, not resistance. It isn't picking up metal particles in the fluid, but rather the depletion of the additive package.

The transfer case fluid condition is not based just on mileage, like the oil change interval was based on fuel consumed. It is based on changing frictional characteristics of the gear oil, and the control box recognizing that those characteristics are crossing a threshold, measured by comparing slip characteristics (input and output speeds) and clutch engagement pressures (actuator torque).

I don't have a quote from the manuals on this iPad, but here is a quote from a BMW tech with an extract from the manual which covers it. Sorry I had to use a forum post but it does include the extract from the technical literature.

http://www.xoutpost.com/881911-post7.html

Edit: there are likely differences between the various x-drive transfer cases as to the above details. I know the procedure changed relating to resetting the TC adaptations at some point.

bawareca 12-18-2014 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZetaTre (Post 1020599)
No need to engage in reductio ad absurdum: I never said you knew nothing. Actually I find your posts very informative.

Ok,let's start from the beginning.I actually like your write-up for the diesel CCV oil separator and i planned to make something similar.It actually becomes necessity with the tune I am developing with some overseas partners.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZetaTre (Post 1020599)
It just happened that in this post you made definitive statements on a couple of things which turned out to be inaccurate and I thought it was helpful to point them out.

We all learn from experience...............

The same way I am mistaken,you may be too.So the correct term would be "statements that I believe are inaccurate"

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZetaTre (Post 1020599)
Now back on the subject at hand: I was not questioning the fact that the VTG control module monitors oil status. I was questioning the fact that it uses "a sensor measures the resistance of the oil in the transfer case.More parts wear inside,more metal pieces in the oil,resistance decreases."

I've never heard of such sensor, for sure the ATC 700 in my 35d and the ATC 400 in my X3 don't have it and they simply monitored oil indirectly by tracking use and extrapolating the remaining useful life of the oil. Given the very limited gears in the transfer case the primary contaminant of oil comes from the wear of the clutch plates.

I am quite mistaken in that case and I have no idea how that idea got into my head :( I believe the oil quality in the VTG is monitored by the VTG control unit by terms of clutch pack slipping,but do not quote me on that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZetaTre (Post 1020576)
Quote:

Originally Posted by bawareca (Post 1020449)
All BMW fluids are "lifetime" :nanana: ,so must be something else.

This is not true: most are, not all.

The TC oil is definitely not lifetime and albeit some SA claim otherwise, the owner's manual states the transmission fluid (at least for the ZF-6HP, don't know about the 8 speed) is 100K miles. The brakes have a fluid which is also not lifetime.

There are some clues in this post that it is kind of irony.Regardless of the intended fluid life,you will not get this message on the dash,even for the engine oil change.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZetaTre (Post 1020578)
Quote:

Originally Posted by bawareca (Post 1020520)
Tampering dot is gone with E39,E46 and E53.The system is a bit more complicated now,definitely not possible for amateurs to do a rollback.

Also incorrect: the E70 has a manipulation dot that appears between the trip and the odometer (IIRC). It works the same way it has always done which is comparing the odometer recorded in the instrument cluster with the one store in the CAS.

First of all,there is a huge misunderstanding how the tampering dot works on the older models.The mileage from the cluster is stored in the light module and the EWS.If you set the mileage to 0 in the LM or EWS it will take the value from the cluster first time the car accelerates to ~30 mph.If you lower the value in the cluster and the values in the LM and EWS are higher the tampering dot will illuminate.Same will happen if you change any of those modules and the VIN numbers dont match,regardless that the mileage may be accurate.
In the newer generation BMWs the mileage is stored in the cluster and CAS actively,+many other modules but only passive.If you lower the mileage in the cluster and install it on the car it will take the mileage from CAS,no tampering dot will appear.Vice versa is valid too.If you install a different cluster ,or different CAS and VINs do not match,the tampering dot may appear.But many other functions will not work and the car will be a mess.I have never seen the dot illuminate on any of the new models,and after deep google research this is the only thread I found that mentions the tampering dot:
http://www.xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-foru...-dot-came.html
But it is not very definitive after all.So yeah,the truth is out there ;)
Sorry for the long post,at least we keep the forum alive and kicking.


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