Is this legit? A diesel X6 in the States?
 

This is a listing for an X6 35d up for a lease takeover in the States - is this a mistake? I mean, it must be, right? :stickpoke
2010 BMW X6 xDrive35d lease $995.00 - Park Ridge, Illinois 60068

Nope - completely legit. The 35d has been available in the US for a while after BMW got the engine and emissions control systems homologated across all of the States.

That version has been dropped in Europe and replaced by the 40d with more power and a different turbo setup.

No, it is a mistake. It is likely a 35i. No diesel X6 models sold in North America.

(hint: check the VIN number, it says 35i)

What a pity! This is the one X6, I think, I would LOVE to get my hands on... guess, we're back to waiting, huh?

Can you folks still only get a diesel X5 then?

X5 35d and 335d only...it is all very sad

Yep, you're missing out on all sorts of good things that we get here in Oz: 40d in X6, 40d and 30d in X5, 30d and 20d in X3, and 23d and 20d in X1. You can get diesels in 1, 3, 5 and 7 Series vehicles. Eight years ago BMW didn't sell any diesels in Australia (the E53 3.0d was the first in 2003) and now it sells more diesels than petrol models across its entire fleet, and in X models it's something like 80 percent diesel.

Well, that's very true but all cars are expensive here in Australia not just BMWs. That's why Australia's national car fleet is quite old (by Western standards) as people tend to keep cars for longer . Still we have it much better than the Kiwis. They make our cars look cheap.

Oh I know what we are missing, the problem is the 98% of the buying public does not.

Diesels are purchased in higher percentages in Canada than in the USA, but we tend to follow what BMW USA offers, not what our own market is calling for.

I don't think that I have seen a gas VW Golf/Jetta for years, and every X5 I see is a 35d.

A quick look at the tachometer shows it's a petrol.

Two reasons why diesels aren't as quick to pick up popularity. One, not a lot of promotion of the benefits, thus not a lot of public knowledge of modern diesel offerings. Two, the refineries' output in the US is biased towards petrol, hence diesel costs more than regular gasoline. Prices can vary by market- in the Southeast diesel is slightly below or on-par with premium fuel.

Diesel is much cheaper here in BC, typically 10-15 cents/liter cheaper and that is for the low sulphur version, regular semi diesel is even cheaper than that.

Diesel is more expensive than petrol in the UK too due to taxation, but the mpg improvements, increased torque and other advantages mean that across all car sales from all marques diesel sells more than 50% of new cars. In the UK we only have ULSD.

I've been driving diesel cars for more than 25 years and they have gone from noisy, dirty and underpowered to quiet, clean and very powerful. 300+ bhp from a 3-litre disel car engine would have been thought unachievable even 5 years ago.

The torque from the 40d is really something and the UK speed limit of 70mph is achieved in 4th - leaving 4 gears still to use. It also achieves more than 30mpg (imperial) with no trouble at all, including city driving.

Thanks for making it even worse LOL - not only does BMW not offer ANY diesel X6 in the States, but 40d is a total utopia "because of regulations".

You know what, aren't UK regulations even stricter than US? Why wouldn't they bring it here and "certify" it? That just means that someone wants to get greased too much. Yeah, I said it! Wanna prove me wrong?:stickpoke

I bet BMW would not regret bringing it here - if only people knew what the car can do:

1. 345 horses
2. 680 Nm (that's slightly over 500 foot-pounds!!!
3. 0-60 = 5.5 secs

xdrive 40d tuning - XBimmers.com | BMW X6 Forum X5 Forum

even more with these guys:

BMW X6 E71 xDrive 40d 306 PS 600 Nm | Diesel Tuning with CHIP Express™
:wow::wow:
That is INSANE! I would LOVE to see what it drives like with proper suspension and wheels

40d is an advance from the 35d but it's not light-years better. Even with the 8-speed tranny it's only another step along the path.

Diesels got a bad rep here in the states and The BMW Superbowl commercial said it best:

YouTube - BMW Advanced Diesel - Changes

No, UK regulations aren't stricter than the US. They are just different. The UK tends to focus on CO emissions, while the US tends to focus on NOx emissions due to the link between NOx and smog. An engine optimized for CO may not be as good on NOx, and vice versa. The US vehicles are using urea injection as post-treatment to control NOx. That will eventually come to the rest of the world, but in general, engine control strategies differ enough that we will see engines certified for one region or the other, but not necessarily both, for some time.

While that may not prove you wrong, it does take away the apparent motivation not to sell the 40d in the US based on kickbacks to executives.

Don't sweat the lack of certification for the 40d. It is older (last generation) technology anyway. The next model will be the triple-turbo 45d 3.0 litre, that will be worth waiting for.

The 40d is the current technology with twin 2-stage turbos on the N57S engine not the engine found in 35d twin or the previous 30d single turbo setup.

Both the 35d and the 40d are sequential bi-turbo arrangements with one bigger and one smaller turbo. The difference between the two is that both turbos of the 35d are fixed geometry whereas the smaller turbo of the 40d is a variable geometry unit while bigger turbo is fixed geometry.

Can't see how 40d could be anything but current generation. As for the triple turbo 3.0 litre diesel, who knows when and if it will appear.

Yeah, it is a bit harsh calling the 40d old technology. It is a modern engine, and the latest that can be purchased at the moment. My apologies if I offended any owners. What I was referring to was that BMW have said they won't be certifying the 40d for the North American market, as they are not investing more money in that platform, but rather spending their development dollars on their next generation of engines, such as the 45d.

I'd be surprised to see a triple-turbo 3.0-litre diesel in the E70, if ever. And, I still wouldn't dismiss the idea an E70 40d for the North American market, despite what BMW NA says. But then, I'm not a local.

Long term, my bet is that BMW will downsize to more sophisticated four-cylinder turbo diesels just it is down sizing to four-cylinder turbo petrol engines in the future. Already the current four-cylinder, 2.0-litre, 23d is outstanding and matches the performance of a BMW 3.0-litre six-cylinder turbo diesel of just a decade back.

Definitely true. The X3 xDrive20d makes the same hp and more torque than my X3 2.5i which has an engine that's a decade old. It's surprising how in a matter of a few years, a 4-cyl diesel is making the kind of power that used to be found in a 6-cyl petrol.

Plus, the 4-cyl diesel X3 is faster than the old 2.5 6-cyl. Wow my car is ancient. :rolleyes:

And the new 6-cyl 30d X3 is quicker than the X6 40d!! Now that is depressing. Mind you it's a hell of a price in the UK! About $90k USD when fully specced up with the most useful toys. That's way too much money even if it is nearly as big as an E53.

40d engine still makes more power and torque than the new 30d in the X3 (225kW/600Nm vs 190kW/560Nm in Aussie spec). The big advantage the X3 30d has over the X6 40d is weight. It's about 250kg lighter, depending on options/spec etc.

This has been a growing issue with almost all BMW series lately - the new 5er is well over 4,000lbs, for example. In a perfect world, we'd have lightweight cars with efficient engines... sort of like what they are trying to sell under the whole "Efficient Dynamics" marketing scheme. But, you know, except for real... :rolleyes:

Much of the weight reduction of the new-generation Cayenne came about as Porsche decided to give up on the idea of making the second-gen model as off-road capable as the first-gen model. No more dual-range transfer case was a big start in saving weight but many of the components also are more light duty than previously. All up a sensible move as very few people ever took their first generation Cayennes off-road anyway, as capable as they may have been. Weight increase is a very general problem with modern cars/SUVs as customers want more safety, more equipment, more luxury, better sound deadening, etc, etc. I have a 20-year old Range Rover that weighs around 1800kg. A current model model Range Rover is 2700kg!! That's nearly 2000lbs difference.

The X6 now has plastic front wings and fender assembly and an aluminium hood. BMW call them High Quality, lightweight materials...........plastic it is then..:nanana:

Even Porsche admits the new chassis is lighter. Regardless of the detail, the first generation Cayenne was designed and built to cope with off-road driving. The new Cayenne is not. It has no low-range, a less capable 4WD system (on most models), no rear locker, and non-height-adjustable suspension on all but the Turbo. It's easy to save weight when you narrow the focus of design from on- and off-road to simply on-road. Additionally, when you delete the dual-range gearing you not only save weight in the transfer case but because the rest of the driveline doesn't have to handle the torque multiplier effect of an extra reduction gear, the driveshafts, half-shafts, diffs etc can be all lighter.
I'm not saying that Porsche hasn't done good work here but their efforts to save weight were vastly simplified by the change in design direction and vehicle capabilities. I'm sure that if Range Rover decided that its next generation Vogue or Sport only needed the off-road capability of something like the new Cayenne, there would be big weight savings to be had as well.

It's a completely different vehicle. The door design is dictated by door aperture design which is dictated the body design which is central to the whole car's rigidity, how the suspension is mounted and stressed etc. Everything has cause and effect. In typical Porsche thoroughness the first generation model was built like a tank so as it could withstand the rigours of off-road use without the body going out of shape, doors sticking etc etc. Porsche didn't want their first SUV to get a reputation of being flimsy. After all it was a monocoque (no separate chassis) so the body strength was critical. And while Porsche claim the second-generation body is 'stiffer' there's a big difference in one-off stiffness test against a twisting force and a body withstanding repeated torsional loads as happens in an off-road environment.
Once Porsche (and Mercedes Benz with its first-generation M-Class that was built on a separate chassis) realised that their customers didn't want to take these luxury 4WDs off road the design brief on the second-generation changed altogether. Again, I'm not disputing that Porsche's engineers have done good work in deducing the weight but their task was simplified by the change in design direction.

This is from Porsche's own press info about the new Cayenne:

"Thanks to the combination of materials minimised in weight and changes in the concept of the overall vehicle"

Note that it says "changes in the concept of the overall vehicle".

The bottom line is that the first generation Cayenne was excellent off-road, the new one is no more capable that something like an X5. I've driven both off-road, have you?

And why are you getting so excited about the new Cayenne's weight when it's no lighter than a E70?

As opposed to things written in Car and Driver and the Porsche USA web configurator?

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexK (Post 805975) You keep repeating same thing based only on your personal assumptions... ;)

No. This is what Porsche says in its own press info on the new Cayenne:


• "the new, active and extra-light all-wheel drive"

•"The two main reasons for choosing this technology were the reduction of weight and the wish to make the new Cayenne even more agile on the road."

• "the name of the game is lightweight engineering."

• "Indeed, the all-new, classy design of the new Cayenne makes the new generation even more clearly a member of Porsche’s family of sports cars."

• "Thanks to the combination of materials minimised in weight and changes in the concept of the overall vehicle"

• "But at the same time it almost goes without saying that the Cayenne offers all the offroad qualities required by the customer under normal conditions."


Note, the use of the words "normal conditions".

This is what Porsche said in its press info about the first-generation Cayenne:


• "robust when driving off the beaten track"

• "in the interest of outstanding offroad driving qualities"

• "The steering transmission with its variable transmission ratio and the differential are both well protected on top of the subframe, again helping to guarantee robust driving qualities off the beaten track"

• "To ensure robust strength even on the roughest surfaces, the lower track control arm and the tie-rod are both made of steel plate."

• "The special offroad level is for the most extreme offroad driving conditions"

• "This reduction gearbox comes with a gear ratio of 2.7:1 for even the most extreme offroad driving manoeuvres"

• "the Cayenne is a real offroad champion even in its basic trim"


It that doesn't convince you Porsche pulled a drastic change in design direction from Cayenne 1 to Cayenne 2, I don't know what will.[/B][/B]

First point: No low-range gearing. No contest.

Second point: Not according to Porsche and BMW's Australian websites. The weights are in the same ballpark.

Third point: Read my previous post re Porsche's design direction with Cayenne 1 and 2.

With regards the benefit of low-range gearing (a significant 2.7:1 in the case of the first-gen Cayenne), if you don't understand then obviously you have done little or no off-road driving.

As with regards weight, Cayenne 2 is 2030kg-2170kg DIN. Current X5 is 2070kg -2190kg. Hardly something to get excited about and far from the 375kg difference you have previously claimed.

And you still haven't addressed these claims from Porsche's own information:

This is what Porsche says in its own press info on the new Cayenne:


• "the new, active and extra-light all-wheel drive"

•"The two main reasons for choosing this technology were the reduction of weight and the wish to make the new Cayenne even more agile on the road."

• "the name of the game is lightweight engineering."

• "Indeed, the all-new, classy design of the new Cayenne makes the new generation even more clearly a member of Porsche’s family of sports cars."

• "Thanks to the combination of materials minimised in weight and changes in the concept of the overall vehicle"

• "But at the same time it almost goes without saying that the Cayenne offers all the offroad qualities required by the customer under normal conditions."


Note, the use of the words "normal conditions".

This is what Porsche said in its press info about the first-generation Cayenne:


• "robust when driving off the beaten track"

• "in the interest of outstanding offroad driving qualities"

• "The steering transmission with its variable transmission ratio and the differential are both well protected on top of the subframe, again helping to guarantee robust driving qualities off the beaten track"

• "To ensure robust strength even on the roughest surfaces, the lower track control arm and the tie-rod are both made of steel plate."

• "The special offroad level is for the most extreme offroad driving conditions"

• "This reduction gearbox comes with a gear ratio of 2.7:1 for even the most extreme offroad driving manoeuvres"

• "the Cayenne is a real offroad champion even in its basic trim"


It that doesn't convince you Porsche pulled a drastic change in design direction from Cayenne 1 to Cayenne 2, I don't know what will.[/B][/B]
Today 11:42 AM

These quotes come from Porsche's own technical information provided to the media at the time of the release of the model in question. You need to read them again. They are very specific about the design intent of both vehicles.

The standard 4WD system on all of the new models bar the diesel and the hybrid is a single-range on-demand system that primarily drives the rear wheels, directing power to the front wheels when conditions dictate. The standard 4WD system on the original Cayenne was a dual range, full-time full-time system with a lockable centre differential. No matter had many options you add to the new model you cannot replicate this system.

BTW: The current X5 has a full-time 4WD system with a self-proportioning and self-locking centre differential that distributes power front to rear. In addition it has electronic traction control to take care of cross-axle control. The dashboard button is there to cancel the electronic stability control and to desensitise the electronic traction control.