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  #11  
Old 02-08-2008, 01:19 AM
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My experiences...

JCL, why did you say not to get slotted? I'm about to buy rotors from Dave Zeck and I cannot decide between Centric plain or StopTech slotted (Centric owns StopTech, so these are really Centric slotted).

The Axxis Deluxe pads are not like OEM. OEM are either Jurid or Pagid pads. These are high metalic pads that dust like crazy. Harder on rotors (but who cares, rotors aren't that expensive), but totally quiet because the pads are wearing so fast. No special care is needed for install to kill noise because... they wear so fast.

I have Axxis Deluxe pads on all three of my BMWs. I'm about to switch to Centric Posi-Quiet Ceramic pads on Dave's recommendation. The Axxis pads have been outstanding, except that they tend to "grunt" and "chudder" at very low speeds coming to a stop. Bedding the pads kills this for up to a year.

But the last set of brand new Axxis pads on the X have been a nightmare. Squealing like crazy. I went with what are supposedly Brembo plain rotors, but I think I was sold a crock. I'm replacing them again, not two months later. But the main problem is that I became lazy and paid a mechanic to install my pads. They used a normal to minimal amount of grease behind the pads. Axxis pads have no backing plate (backing plates are used by many companies to kill squeal). The lack of "extra" grease behind the pads has left them in a condition where they squeal and howell all the time. Dave has talked me into the Centric Posi-Quiet Ceramic pads. Dust just as little as the Axxis, but they use a ceramic composite backing plate that is not supposed to even require grease at all. Supposedly dead quiet.

I could never go back to a dusty pad. But I cannot take the 1987 rusty Ford pickup brake squeal on my BMW either.

I'm actually considering the slotted rotors because I think they might keep the pads fresher. Dustless pads are bad for themselves. They simply do not wear out.. which leads to the grunting, squealing, chuddering, etc..

However, I'm wondering if slotted rotors make their own kind of sound when braking lightly to moderately in town. That would bite as well.

This is a good discussion...

- TA
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  #12  
Old 02-08-2008, 02:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurnAround
JCL, why did you say not to get slotted?
I wouldn't bother with them. To me, they are a purely cosmetic upgrade, look just a little silly, and have no performance difference in terms of stopping power. Some like the look. I do think that they are better than drilled, which are usually structurally weaker due to the drilling, and are often sold with nonsense claims relating to gassing of the pads.

I wouldn't worry about noise with the slotted rotors if that is your concern.

PS: The OEM pads aren't harder on rotors IMO. No noise worries because they have carbon black in the compound, with the side benefit of black dust. I wouldn't use any grease behind the pads myself. I would ensure that there is a coating of high temperature grease on the ears of the pad, as that is the usual noise conduit. Break that link with grease, and they are quiet in my experience.
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  #13  
Old 02-08-2008, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurnAround
JCL, why did you say not to get slotted? I'm about to buy rotors from Dave Zeck and I cannot decide between Centric plain or StopTech slotted (Centric owns StopTech, so these are really Centric slotted).

The Axxis Deluxe pads are not like OEM. OEM are either Jurid or Pagid pads. These are high metalic pads that dust like crazy. Harder on rotors (but who cares, rotors aren't that expensive), but totally quiet because the pads are wearing so fast. No special care is needed for install to kill noise because... they wear so fast.

I have Axxis Deluxe pads on all three of my BMWs. I'm about to switch to Centric Posi-Quiet Ceramic pads on Dave's recommendation. The Axxis pads have been outstanding, except that they tend to "grunt" and "chudder" at very low speeds coming to a stop. Bedding the pads kills this for up to a year.

But the last set of brand new Axxis pads on the X have been a nightmare. Squealing like crazy. I went with what are supposedly Brembo plain rotors, but I think I was sold a crock. I'm replacing them again, not two months later. But the main problem is that I became lazy and paid a mechanic to install my pads. They used a normal to minimal amount of grease behind the pads. Axxis pads have no backing plate (backing plates are used by many companies to kill squeal). The lack of "extra" grease behind the pads has left them in a condition where they squeal and howell all the time. Dave has talked me into the Centric Posi-Quiet Ceramic pads. Dust just as little as the Axxis, but they use a ceramic composite backing plate that is not supposed to even require grease at all. Supposedly dead quiet.

I could never go back to a dusty pad. But I cannot take the 1987 rusty Ford pickup brake squeal on my BMW either.

I'm actually considering the slotted rotors because I think they might keep the pads fresher. Dustless pads are bad for themselves. They simply do not wear out.. which leads to the grunting, squealing, chuddering, etc..

However, I'm wondering if slotted rotors make their own kind of sound when braking lightly to moderately in town. That would bite as well.

This is a good discussion...

- TA
TA, I replied to your post on this situation, but I think it is relevant here too. I have the StopTech slotted rotors and Axxis (PBR) metalmasters on my e36 325i. Here is what I have noticed; the pedal feel is about the same as stock, normal braking feels about the same, there is just slightly more dust, and noise is virtually non-existent. They make absolutely no more noise than anoy other pads/rotors I have had. I installed them myself and even forgot to put any anti-vibration grease or anything on the pads. I chose the slotted because, from what I have read, the slots are supposed to help stops in wet conditions by basically giving the water that can build up between the pad in the rotor when driving in the rain somewhere to go. Not sure how much of that is true, but the price was not much more than OEM rotors, so I figured I would give it a try. Overall, I have been happy with this set up.

I know the same equipment on the X5 may have a different result than the e36, but I wouldn't hesitate to try the StopTechs/Axxis Metal masters on the X5.
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  #14  
Old 02-08-2008, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCL
I wouldn't bother with them. To me, they are a purely cosmetic upgrade, look just a little silly, and have no performance difference in terms of stopping power. Some like the look. I do think that they are better than drilled, which are usually structurally weaker due to the drilling, and are often sold with nonsense claims relating to gassing of the pads.

I wouldn't worry about noise with the slotted rotors if that is your concern.

PS: The OEM pads aren't harder on rotors IMO. No noise worries because they have carbon black in the compound, with the side benefit of black dust. I wouldn't use any grease behind the pads myself. I would ensure that there is a coating of high temperature grease on the ears of the pad, as that is the usual noise conduit. Break that link with grease, and they are quiet in my experience.
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  #15  
Old 02-08-2008, 01:56 PM
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I would go with ATE discs and Balo/Pagid pads. Yes, they dust. But they work. Out of 3 problems - they have least important one - dust.
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  #16  
Old 02-09-2008, 01:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCL
I wouldn't bother with them. To me, they are a purely cosmetic upgrade, look just a little silly, and have no performance difference in terms of stopping power. Some like the look. I do think that they are better than drilled, which are usually structurally weaker due to the drilling, and are often sold with nonsense claims relating to gassing of the pads.

I wouldn't worry about noise with the slotted rotors if that is your concern.
This is very insightful. Or at the very least, ironically, directly describes the very debate I have with this decision; I don't actually want slotted rotors. What I really want are drilled slotted rotors (or at least drilled), with light weight bright red Brembo calipers, don't care if they're two piston or four. I just want the look. I want this on all of my BMW's, and being totally honest, I'm pissed at BMW that they insist on snubbing off Brembo while even American companies are starting to use them.

It's like fighting that the Apple iPod didn't slam dunk the MP3 player wars. Brembo wins. It's that simple. Some BMW executive, drunk one night at a Munich bar, got into a fight with the Brembo sales rep, said something offensive, and because of this, for ever more we're all driving around with ATE brake calipers, and upgrading to StopTech or Brembo (for a very few models) costs us $3,700. Mean while, Every Lexus, Porsche, name yer brand here is outfitted with the Brembo brakes that we should have gotten for free with our BMW's!

Phew.. just had to rant a little..

Ok, so, drilled is out, because of noise (regardless of brand I suppose). Slotted is a poor substitute for the look I really want. I should probably just get plain, as I'm stuck with the ATE brake calipers anyway. No noise and no dust should probably be my guide.

Hehehee..

Thanks.
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  #17  
Old 02-09-2008, 01:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCL
I wouldn't use any grease behind the pads myself. I would ensure that there is a coating of high temperature grease on the ears of the pad, as that is the usual noise conduit. Break that link with grease, and they are quiet in my experience.
That is really interesting. I thought that it was the pad backing area that vibrates into a squeal.

See.. these are the tweaky discussion details that get to the finer points worth studying!
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  #18  
Old 02-09-2008, 01:29 AM
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I installed PBR Metal Master pads and oem style Brembo rotors on all four wheels of my X5 about 6 months ago. The dusting is better than the factory pads I had and the brake feel is about the same. That said initially, for the first 100+ miles, the Metal Master pads had a little less initial bite.

Noise wise I am happy to report that they are very quiet, no squealing etc.
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  #19  
Old 02-09-2008, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vonbimmer
I installed PBR Metal Master pads and oem style Brembo rotors on all four wheels of my X5 about 6 months ago. The dusting is better than the factory pads I had and the brake feel is about the same. That said initially, for the first 100+ miles, the Metal Master pads had a little less initial bite.

Noise wise I am happy to report that they are very quiet, no squealing etc.
Will see how they do after 10k miles..
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  #20  
Old 02-09-2008, 12:05 PM
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I'm at 5K miles right now, but I'll report back at 10K. As always I think one of the big key steps is to go with quality oem style rotors so the pads have a good surface to bed on. Picked mine up from TireRack.
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