Home Forums Articles How To's FAQ Register
Go Back   Xoutpost.com > BMW SAV Forums > Other BMWs
Bimmer Tool Rental
User Name
Password
Member List Premier Membership Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Xoutpost server transfer and maintenance is occurring....
Xoutpost is currently undergoing a planned server migration.... stay tuned for new developments.... sincerely, the management


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 02-10-2011, 02:23 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: White Lake, WI
Posts: 120
connman is on a distinguished road
Exactly

Quote:
Originally Posted by JCL View Post
In 2009, BMW North America sold 240,000 vehicles. 158,000 of those were BMW brand cars, ie not X3/5/6 or Mini. Total 3 series diesels (all of the passenger car diesels sold by BMW North America) were reportedly 1656 units. So, 1% of their passenger car sales were diesels, and about 1.7% of their 3 series sales were diesels. Said another way, 99% of new BMW car purchasers in the US believe they can beat the combination of what the diesel offers. In February 2009, BMWNA sold a total of only 19 335d vehicles. I wonder how much certification of the vehicle to allow them to sell this version in the US cost them in comparison? The 3 series diesel sales figures were a huge disappointment to BMW North America, and are never mentioned in press releases, unlike the X5 diesel, which has been doing fairly well.

On a practical note, the chances of finding a used one are pretty low.

Personally, I think BMWNA blew it by introducing a 335d first. If they had introduced a 320d instead they would have done much better IMO.
You are right the 335d that I tried out on some kind of BMW program was awsome! I could not believe the torque that thing put out and the great mileage that went with it. I have been looking for a used one at a affordable price but no luck. Even my 05 X5 gets 22mpg on the computer which is great for such a big rig.. I will keep looking.. Maybe a 120d??
__________________
2009 X5 3.0i, 2005 Volvo XC70, 2011 VW GOLF TDI2002 Jetta 1.8t, Ford F250 Diesel

Last edited by connman; 02-10-2011 at 03:06 PM.
Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links

  #12  
Old 02-10-2011, 03:44 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 263
GoVols! is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCL View Post
In 2009, BMW North America sold 240,000 vehicles. 158,000 of those were BMW brand cars, ie not X3/5/6 or Mini. Total 3 series diesels (all of the passenger car diesels sold by BMW North America) were reportedly 1656 units. So, 1% of their passenger car sales were diesels, and about 1.7% of their 3 series sales were diesels. Said another way, 99% of new BMW car purchasers in the US believe they can beat the combination of what the diesel offers. In February 2009, BMWNA sold a total of only 19 335d vehicles. I wonder how much certification of the vehicle to allow them to sell this version in the US cost them in comparison? The 3 series diesel sales figures were a huge disappointment to BMW North America, and are never mentioned in press releases, unlike the X5 diesel, which has been doing fairly well.

On a practical note, the chances of finding a used one are pretty low.

Personally, I think BMWNA blew it by introducing a 335d first. If they had introduced a 320d instead they would have done much better IMO.

Just because something isnt popular, doesnt mean it's not a good value. Seems to me that if people weren't happy with the car, there would be a bunch of CPO's on the lot.

My opinion is that it is Americans reluctance to consider diesel cars that is holding sales back more than the quality of the car. Maybe diesel "trucks" are just more accepted. Test after test that compares the 335i and 335d show performance to be a wash overall with the i winning hi-revving track driving(by about .5 seconds a lap) while the d wins at low rpm real-world circumstances while getting ~10 mpg better.

I have the X5d and if I was buying a 3 series, I would get the d in it too.

That said, I honestly think all current 3 series models are overpriced compared to the competition. If I was buying today in that class, I would get the G37. I'm hoping the new 3 coming out will change my mind because I want to do ED in a few years, but at this point, the tiny gap in performance is not worth $15k+ to me.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 02-10-2011, 03:48 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 263
GoVols! is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCL View Post
In 2009, BMW North America sold 240,000 vehicles. 158,000 of those were BMW brand cars, ie not X3/5/6 or Mini. Total 3 series diesels (all of the passenger car diesels sold by BMW North America) were reportedly 1656 units. So, 1% of their passenger car sales were diesels, and about 1.7% of their 3 series sales were diesels. Said another way, 99% of new BMW car purchasers in the US believe they can beat the combination of what the diesel offers. In February 2009, BMWNA sold a total of only 19 335d vehicles. I wonder how much certification of the vehicle to allow them to sell this version in the US cost them in comparison? The 3 series diesel sales figures were a huge disappointment to BMW North America, and are never mentioned in press releases, unlike the X5 diesel, which has been doing fairly well.

On a practical note, the chances of finding a used one are pretty low.

Personally, I think BMWNA blew it by introducing a 335d first. If they had introduced a 320d instead they would have done much better IMO.
I'd also like to see the current sales figures for the 335d. The 2009 numbers you cite above are misleading since 2009 was the first year the d was sold in the US and I believe(could be wrong) that it was a mid-model year addition. Doesnt surprise me they only sold 1%. For some reason I'm thinking the d went on sale in Jan/Feb of that year so the 19 sold in Feb makes sense.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 02-10-2011, 04:17 PM
FSETH's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Marietta, GA
Posts: 5,303
FSETH is on a distinguished road
There are two problems with the 335d;

1) It is expensive. To the tune of nearly double a pre-owned e90 328i. There were 80 used 335d's available in the US on Autotrader right now up to year 2010. The cheapest being $35,000+. You can get a couple year old 328i for about $20k +/-. You know how expensive gas would have to be to make up that difference?

2) No manual transmission available. The 3 series to me is an enthusiast type of car. I want it to feel sporty and I want it with a manual transmission.

Although the torque would be great in the 335d, it's engine will not be the same silky smooth, high revver that the gasoline versions are. It would dissapoint in that aspect for me personally. A diesel in an SUV, like the X5, is a different story, because in an SUV, that torque is more important. Not only to get the extra mass of an SUV rolling, but for towing as well. I would be 100 times more likely to buy a diesel X5, than a diesel 3-series, or any car for that matter.

I agree with JCL, BMW missed the mark by not offering the smaller engine diesels over here. I think BMW could have sold the 320d/325d much better than the 335d.
__________________
Profeshenal spellar
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 02-10-2011, 05:09 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 263
GoVols! is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by FSETH View Post
There are two problems with the 335d;

1) It is expensive. To the tune of nearly double a pre-owned e90 328i. There were 80 used 335d's available in the US on Autotrader right now up to year 2010. The cheapest being $35,000+. You can get a couple year old 328i for about $20k +/-. You know how expensive gas would have to be to make up that difference?

2) No manual transmission available. The 3 series to me is an enthusiast type of car. I want it to feel sporty and I want it with a manual transmission.

Although the torque would be great in the 335d, it's engine will not be the same silky smooth, high revver that the gasoline versions are. It would dissapoint in that aspect for me personally. A diesel in an SUV, like the X5, is a different story, because in an SUV, that torque is more important. Not only to get the extra mass of an SUV rolling, but for towing as well. I would be 100 times more likely to buy a diesel X5, than a diesel 3-series, or any car for that matter.

I agree with JCL, BMW missed the mark by not offering the smaller engine diesels over here. I think BMW could have sold the 320d/325d much better than the 335d.

I agree with your second point. If you have to have a stick, that obviously rules out the d. If you frequently red-line your car and flog it around, you will be more satisfied with the smooth gassers. If you're interested in mileage and want power without the high-revs and wear & tear, the d is the way to go.

On your first point though, the 335 models should not be compared to 328 in a cost comparison. They are completely different vehicles. Saying the d costs more than the 328 is a "well duh" moment. That's like saying the X5M costs more than a used 3.0.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 02-10-2011, 06:02 PM
FSETH's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Marietta, GA
Posts: 5,303
FSETH is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoVols! View Post
On your first point though, the 335 models should not be compared to 328 in a cost comparison. They are completely different vehicles. Saying the d costs more than the 328 is a "well duh" moment. That's like saying the X5M costs more than a used 3.0.
Of course, but the OP did ask about a manual 325i before you brought up the 335d. Like I said, cheapest used 335d on Autotrader is $35,000+. The average price for a 325i (manual) is about $18,000-$19,000. You have to consider the higher cost of the 335d if the 325i is enough car for his commute. Especially if the OP can buy two manual 325i's for the same price as the cheapest 335d.
__________________
Profeshenal spellar
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 02-10-2011, 06:13 PM
JCL's Avatar
JCL JCL is offline
Premier Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 11,853
JCL will become famous soon enoughJCL will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoVols! View Post
I'd also like to see the current sales figures for the 335d. The 2009 numbers you cite above are misleading since 2009 was the first year the d was sold in the US and I believe(could be wrong) that it was a mid-model year addition. Doesnt surprise me they only sold 1%. For some reason I'm thinking the d went on sale in Jan/Feb of that year so the 19 sold in Feb makes sense.
Nope, not mid-year. They sold 156 in January. It took until July to get another month that good.

I used 2009 since it was a full year of production, and the OP asked about purchasing a used vehicle from 2005 to 2010. They were introduced in late 2008 IIRC.

It is hard to get more recent figures, as BMW seems very reluctant to release them. They talk about the X5, as those figures have been pretty good. Figures from bmwblog.
Attached Images
 
__________________
2007 X3 3.0si, 6 MT, Premium, White

Retired:
2008 535i, 6 MT, M Sport, Premium, Space Grey
2003 X5 3.0 Steptronic, Premium, Titanium Silver

2002 325xi 5 MT, Steel Grey
2004 Z4 3.0 Premium, Sport, SMG, Maldives Blue
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 02-10-2011, 06:21 PM
JCL's Avatar
JCL JCL is offline
Premier Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 11,853
JCL will become famous soon enoughJCL will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quicksilver View Post
Whether 99% of new BMW car purchasers in the US believe they can beat the combination of what the diesel offers is true or not depends on who you ask. The folks over at the BMW Diesel owners forum seem to think they have a winner and the fact that others don't know about it doesn't seem to bother them.
Fair enough, but I used the opinions of all the actual purchasers of new BMWs, who voted with their wallets, and had two options available to them. Asking just the diesel owners if they are a good idea would be like going to a Republican convention and asking for opinions on Obama. (I knew you'd like that one, lol)
__________________
2007 X3 3.0si, 6 MT, Premium, White

Retired:
2008 535i, 6 MT, M Sport, Premium, Space Grey
2003 X5 3.0 Steptronic, Premium, Titanium Silver

2002 325xi 5 MT, Steel Grey
2004 Z4 3.0 Premium, Sport, SMG, Maldives Blue
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 02-10-2011, 06:29 PM
JCL's Avatar
JCL JCL is offline
Premier Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 11,853
JCL will become famous soon enoughJCL will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoVols! View Post
Just because something isnt popular, doesnt mean it's not a good value.
I think the 335d is a terrible value. It costs like a 335i, but performs like a 325. It is a sport sedan without a manual transmission. It has no history of extra longevity or high resale value in this market, which would have helped to justify the price.

BMW was too caught up in trying to protect their performance image, IMO. If they had brought in a 320d, and been honest about it, selling reasonable performance with outstanding fuel economy, they could have sold many more, again, IMO. the 35d makes some sense in an X5 due to the very high weight of that vehicle. But in the new 2011 X3, a 20d would make more sense. Will they do it? Probably more likely they will stick the old 35d engine in there as well. Too bad. If I did get a new X3 or X1, a 20d model would by far be my preference.
__________________
2007 X3 3.0si, 6 MT, Premium, White

Retired:
2008 535i, 6 MT, M Sport, Premium, Space Grey
2003 X5 3.0 Steptronic, Premium, Titanium Silver

2002 325xi 5 MT, Steel Grey
2004 Z4 3.0 Premium, Sport, SMG, Maldives Blue
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 02-10-2011, 06:29 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 263
GoVols! is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by FSETH View Post
Of course, but the OP did ask about a manual 325i before you brought up the 335d. Like I said, cheapest used 335d on Autotrader is $35,000+. The average price for a 325i (manual) is about $18,000-$19,000. You have to consider the higher cost of the 335d if the 325i is enough car for his commute. Especially if the OP can buy two manual 325i's for the same price as the cheapest 335d.

I don't disagree with you if he is OK with the lack of power in a 325. I read him bringing a manual into the equation as a way to get better mileage, not a requirement for performance. His son was the one who insisted on a stick. His original post asked about performance and fuel effeciency, of which the d is the perfect blend. I would not consider a 325 to be a "performance" based 3 series, but that's just my opinion. Obviously if a 325 would satisfy his needs/wants the dollars for the d would not be justified.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:08 AM.
vBulletin, Copyright 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0
2017 Xoutpost.com. All rights reserved. Xoutpost.com is a private enthusiast site not associated with BMW AG.
The BMW name, marks, M stripe logo, and Roundel logo as well as X3, X5 and X6 designations used in the pages of this Web Site are the property of BMW AG.
This web site is not sponsored or affiliated in any way with BMW AG or any of its subsidiaries.