x5MMM help

[998M]

Originally Posted by JCL

Read about the Nissan GT-R issues.

My understanding is that was a transmission/drivetrain issue. Also, two very different systems. GTR is a dual clutch. X5M is an auto with torque converter.

[Rez]

Originally Posted by 998M

My understanding is that was a transmission/drivetrain issue. Also, two very different systems. GTR is a dual clutch. X5M is an auto with torque converter.

I don't think it has a torque converter. It works by selectively shoting down a few cylinders during the shifts to reduce torque, very unique transmission.

[998M]

Originally Posted by Rez

I don't think it has a torque converter. It works by selectively shoting down a few cylinders during the shifts to reduce torque, very unique transmission.

The X5M? Then explain what is happening when you are in drive and sitting at a light. I am pretty sure that the 2010 X5M has a torque converter. Nothing special.

I should clarifiy that I am talking about the 2010 6 spd auto for the X5M.

[///MB]

I've played with LC a bunch of times on my car. It doesn't let you do it more than every few minutes. Not sure exactly how many minutes. But I tried doing it at every stop sign and it didn't work. At first I thought I wasn't doing it right, but then read in the manual it only allows you to do it every few minutes.

As far as how harsh it is on the transmission, it's brake torquing, so it's pretty hard on it. But, if you only hold the brake down briefly, for example, hold brake, floor the gas, then wait for the checkered flag and go right away, it's not too bad. Whereas, if you're at a traffic light hold it down for a long time waiting for the green light would be bad.

[JCL]

Originally Posted by 998M

Not sure how it would be bad for the engine. Or at least any worse than flooring it. Never heard anything about using it more than 3 times voids the warranty. They will be in for a fight for this one.

Originally Posted by JCL

Read about the Nissan GT-R issues.

Originally Posted by 998M

My understanding is that was a transmission/drivetrain issue. Also, two very different systems. GTR is a dual clutch. X5M is an auto with torque converter.

I heard about the limits on the earlier launch control versions, but never saw anything official. BMW just adjusted the launch parameters to reduce the driveline stress, dropping the launch rpm in North America.

I don't think LC harms the engine, but it is hard on the driveline. Since you have a full automatic, with a torque converter, the risks relate to heat as much as anything. There is just as much of a reason to limit the frequency of launches with an automatic as there is with clutches.

My comment on the GT-R wasn't about the engine, it was about what happens when a manufacturer offers these systems. Nissan has apparently pulled their system now, citing 'a warranty nightmare'. Not hard to imagine that situation.

I think that a manufacturer including a launch control system is asking for trouble. Frequent use of it would qualify as abuse.

Anyway, with your planned performance chip, why would warranty coverage matter? I was reading recently about an X6M that got a Powerchip and an exhaust. He broke a rear halfshaft. $3000. Warranty denied due to modifications on vehicle. Owner said that you can't prove I have a chip tune. BMW said fine, you have an exhaust, we'll go with that. Warranty denied. Serial number flagged. Got to pay to play.

[4.6is Ryder]

Originally Posted by JCL

Anyway, with your planned performance chip, why would warranty coverage matter? I was reading recently about an X6M that got a Powerchip and an exhaust. He broke a rear halfshaft. $3000. Warranty denied due to modifications on vehicle. Owner said that you can't prove I have a chip tune. BMW said fine, you have an exhaust, we'll go with that. Warranty denied. Serial number flagged. Got to pay to play.

This is one reason I'm a fan of Dinan. Some would say the mods are overpriced for the HP gain you get. The piece of mind is better than 3 or 4 more horses.......Phil

[998M]

Originally Posted by JCL

Anyway, with your planned performance chip, why would warranty coverage matter? I was reading recently about an X6M that got a Powerchip and an exhaust. He broke a rear halfshaft. $3000. Warranty denied due to modifications on vehicle. Owner said that you can't prove I have a chip tune. BMW said fine, you have an exhaust, we'll go with that. Warranty denied. Serial number flagged. Got to pay to play.

First things first. If you "chip" a car and then remove the "chip" after it breaks and tell the dealership that it was not "chipped". Pretty sure that is fraud. I am not a lawyer and do not play one on TV but sure seems like it to me. If nothing else it is just wrong.

Modifications and warranty are complicated. It is not as easy as saying "your car is modified and your mirror fell off, we will not pay." They own the responsibility of proving that they modification caused the failure. In the example above. BMW would have to prove that the exhaust caused such a horsepower increase that it cause a halfshaft to fail.

So with the case of the ESS tune. If for some reason the tune caused a rod to blow out the side of the motor. Then BMW could and would have just about every right to tell me to pay for the new engine myself. That is one of the nice things about Dinan. While BMW warranty now longer honors Dinan mods. Dinan does provide their own warranty.

Pay to play. If you don't like the risk, then don't fiddle with the engine.

M

[JCL]

Originally Posted by 998M

First things first. If you "chip" a car and then remove the "chip" after it breaks and tell the dealership that it was not "chipped". Pretty sure that is fraud. I am not a lawyer and do not play one on TV but sure seems like it to me. If nothing else it is just wrong.

Modifications and warranty are complicated. It is not as easy as saying "your car is modified and your mirror fell off, we will not pay." They own the responsibility of proving that they modification caused the failure. In the example above. BMW would have to prove that the exhaust caused such a horsepower increase that it cause a halfshaft to fail.

So with the case of the ESS tune. If for some reason the tune caused a rod to blow out the side of the motor. Then BMW could and would have just about every right to tell me to pay for the new engine myself. That is one of the nice things about Dinan. While BMW warranty now longer honors Dinan mods. Dinan does provide their own warranty.

Pay to play. If you don't like the risk, then don't fiddle with the engine.

M

Agree that chipping and then removing the chip after a failure is fraud. That isn't complicated at all. And the example I mentioned didn't have anything to do with unrelated components like mirrors.

The example centered around an owner who was complaining "but it is supposed to be undetectable". Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't, but the aftermarket exhaust that was still on the vehicle did increase the horsepower (likely in concert with the chip). The specific failure was of a driveline component that clearly had too much power applied to it. Unless there was a history of those failures on standard, unmodified vehicles, BMW would have no problem demonstrating that the failure is due to the increased horsepower. Burden of proof has shifted to the owner. Whether they can detect the chip (and whether it was still there or not) is irrelevant if the owner brings the car in with an aftermarket exhaust that does increase hp, and the failure relates to that increased horsepower.

I suppose one could also make the case that a broken halfshaft, if not a common failure on other vehicles of the same configuration, constitutes proof of abusive driving, but the thread I read didn't mention that. I suspect that BMW had several reasons why it wasn't warranty, but just hung it on the easiest one, in this case the exhaust. I think that in this case, BMW had the tamper flags from the ECM, they had the installed exhaust, and they had a count of how many times the owner used the launch control.

I used the phrase 'pay to play' in my post, so we agree on that. I concur that if an owner doesn't want the risk an owner shouldn't modify the vehicle. That was why I was surprised by your comment that BMW would have a fight on their hands over any abusive use of the LC function, when you mentioned at the same time that you were installing a performance chip. With the move to turbo engines, owners got an easy way of getting more power out of their vehicles. In lock step, BMW upgraded software to make sure they could detect that software. I just think that they don't want to talk about that very much. The exhaust is easy to focus on.

[J.Belknap]

Originally Posted by JCL

I was reading recently about an X6M that got a Powerchip and an exhaust. He broke a rear halfshaft. $3000. Warranty denied due to modifications on vehicle. Owner said that you can't prove I have a chip tune. BMW said fine, you have an exhaust, we'll go with that. Warranty denied. Serial number flagged. Got to pay to play.

I find this kind of awesome in a way.

Time for the owner to pay this man a visit.... Mark Williams Enterprises - Request More Information About Custom Work

Maybe Mark would do a group buy for a run of some 300M half-shafts.