First service: 15k miles or 1 year ?

[martz]

Do most of you wait till the Service light indicator goes on before doing an Oil and filter change? which is what? approximately 15K or 1 year? I do not lease, if that was the case then it would be a different story but I own the vehicle. I cannot bear to wait that long, Ever ck. how black your oil is on the dipstick after 5k. I do my own oil changes at 3K, yes 3k and will also bring it in to the dealer when ther indicator light summons me to get my free service. This is a BMW we all drive, we all forked out good money to own one , just like humans we eat to survive. This is exactly how vehicles are they live on their Oil. I have an oil extractor and buy my OEM filters online for about $6.00 and religiously do oil changes at 3K sometimes 3.5K on all the vehicles I own. I do not pay attention to the service light indicators before I have an oil change. I pay attention to the color of the OIL on my dipstick.

Mercedes Benz has a similar program- FSS, calls for oil changes at 10K
You know what happened? Sludging!!!!! be kind to your BMWs change the Oil at the least at 5K.....you wont be sorry , if you can afford to drive a BMW you certainly can afford to pay for an OIL change.

[vern]

Originally Posted by martz

Do most of you wait till the Service light indicator goes on before doing an Oil and filter change? which is what? approximately 15K or 1 year? I do not lease, if that was the case then it would be a different story but I own the vehicle. I cannot bear to wait that long, Ever ck. how black your oil is on the dipstick after 5k. I do my own oil changes at 3K, yes 3k and will also bring it in to the dealer when ther indicator light summons me to get my free service. This is a BMW we all drive, we all forked out good money to own one , just like humans we eat to survive. This is exactly how vehicles are they live on their Oil. I have an oil extractor and buy my OEM filters online for about $6.00 and religiously do oil changes at 3K sometimes 3.5K on all the vehicles I own. I do not pay attention to the service light indicators before I have an oil change. I pay attention to the color of the OIL on my dipstick.

Mercedes Benz has a similar program- FSS, calls for oil changes at 10K
You know what happened? Sludging!!!!! be kind to your BMWs change the Oil at the least at 5K.....you wont be sorry , if you can afford to drive a BMW you certainly can afford to pay for an OIL change.

IMO your wasting your money. Every 7500 miles would be more realistic for a oil and filter change. One of the reasons the oil gets black is because the additives are doing there job.not because the oil is no longer lubricating properly and has to be changed.. Good luck
cheers
vern

[martz]

Originally Posted by vern

IMO your wasting your money. Every 7500 miles would be more realistic for a oil and filter change. One of the reasons the oil gets black is because the additives are doing there job.not because the oil is no longer lubricating properly and has to be changed.. Good luck
cheers
vern

Ok fine if you choose to do it at 7500 thats sure is better than 15K. I do not believe I am wasting my money at 3k intervals.... to each his own ....below is a post I pulled from carbibles...

So how often should I change my oil?


You can never change your engine oil too frequently. The more you do it, the longer the engine will last. The whole debate about exactly when you change your oil is somewhat of a grey area. Manufacturers tell you every 10,000 miles or so. Your mate with a classic car tells you every 3,000 miles. Ole' Bob with the bad breath who drives a truck tells you he's never once changed the oil in his car. Fact is, large quantities of water are produced by the normal combustion process and, depending on engine wear, some of it gets into the crank case. If you have a good crank case breathing system it gets removed from there PDQ, but even so, in cold weather a lot of condensation will take place. This is bad enough in itself, since water is not noted for its lubrication qualities in an engine, but even worse, that water dissolves any nitrates formed during the combustion process. If my memory of chemistry serves me right, that leaves you with a mixture of Nitric (HNO3) and Nitrous (HNO2) acid circulating round your engine! So not only do you suffer a high rate of wear at start-up and when the engine is cold, you suffer a high rate of subsequent corrosion during normal running or even when stationary.
The point I'm trying to make is that the optimum time for changing oil ought to be related to a number of factors, of which distance travelled is probably one of the least important in most cases. Here is my selection in rough order of importance:

1. Number of cold starts (more condensation in a cold engine)
2. Ambient temperature (how long before warm enough to stop serious condensation)
3. Effectiveness of crank case scavenging (more of that anon)
4. State of wear of the engine (piston blow-by multiplies the problem)
5. Accuracy of carburation during warm-up period (extra gook produced)
6. Distance travelled (well, lets get that one out of the way)

[vern]

Originally Posted by martz

Ok fine if you choose to do it at 7500 thats sure is better than 15K. I do not believe I am wasting my money at 3k intervals.... to each his own ....below is a post I pulled from carbibles...

So how often should I change my oil?


You can never change your engine oil too frequently. The more you do it, the longer the engine will last. The whole debate about exactly when you change your oil is somewhat of a grey area. Manufacturers tell you every 10,000 miles or so. Your mate with a classic car tells you every 3,000 miles. Ole' Bob with the bad breath who drives a truck tells you he's never once changed the oil in his car. Fact is, large quantities of water are produced by the normal combustion process and, depending on engine wear, some of it gets into the crank case. If you have a good crank case breathing system it gets removed from there PDQ, but even so, in cold weather a lot of condensation will take place. This is bad enough in itself, since water is not noted for its lubrication qualities in an engine, but even worse, that water dissolves any nitrates formed during the combustion process. If my memory of chemistry serves me right, that leaves you with a mixture of Nitric (HNO3) and Nitrous (HNO2) acid circulating round your engine! So not only do you suffer a high rate of wear at start-up and when the engine is cold, you suffer a high rate of subsequent corrosion during normal running or even when stationary.
The point I'm trying to make is that the optimum time for changing oil ought to be related to a number of factors, of which distance travelled is probably one of the least important in most cases. Here is my selection in rough order of importance:

1. Number of cold starts (more condensation in a cold engine)
2. Ambient temperature (how long before warm enough to stop serious condensation)
3. Effectiveness of crank case scavenging (more of that anon)
4. State of wear of the engine (piston blow-by multiplies the problem)
5. Accuracy of carburation during warm-up period (extra gook produced)
6. Distance travelled (well, lets get that one out of the way)

All I can say is believe what you may. A few years ago BMW came out with a new filter because the old one was coming apart at higher milage and they did a test on the oil at 15,000 miles with the new filter and everything was fine and they said it could have run even longer, not that I would, and it would do no damage to your engine. Do what so many people do. have your oil analyzed at different mile intervals to get peace of mind. I believe 7,500 is OK as so many others do. Good luck
cheers
vern

[martz]

Originally Posted by vern

Do what so many people do. have your oil analyzed at different mile intervals to get peace of mind. I believe 7,500 is OK as so many others do. Good luck
cheers
vern

I hear you Vern. I am old school and peace of mind for me is changing the oil regularly. I would prefer to use the money to get my oil changed than having it analyzed. I am no scientist, I just love to drive and am meticulous in preventive maintenance.

and yes CHEERS!!!!!!!

[vern]

Originally Posted by martz

I hear you Vern. I am old school and peace of mind for me is changing the oil regularly. I would prefer to use the money to get my oil changed than having it analyzed. I am no scientist, I just love to drive and am meticulous in preventive maintenance.

and yes CHEERS!!!!!!!

I'm not trying to change your oil changing habits just trying to give you some information, I'm from the old school too. Go to www.bimmerfest.com general forum, scrol to Synthetic Oil take a look at the last post, 335i Driver, and while you on that site do a search on Synthetic Oil theres a world of information for you to read. Good luck and oh yea cheers
vern
PS where on the East Coast are you from and what dealer do you use?

[JCL]

Originally Posted by martz

Ok fine if you choose to do it at 7500 thats sure is better than 15K. I do not believe I am wasting my money at 3k intervals.... to each his own ....below is a post I pulled from carbibles...

So how often should I change my oil?

You can never change your engine oil too frequently. The more you do it, the longer the engine will last. The whole debate about exactly when you change your oil is somewhat of a grey area. Manufacturers tell you every 10,000 miles or so. Your mate with a classic car tells you every 3,000 miles. Ole' Bob with the bad breath who drives a truck tells you he's never once changed the oil in his car. Fact is, large quantities of water are produced by the normal combustion process and, depending on engine wear, some of it gets into the crank case. If you have a good crank case breathing system it gets removed from there PDQ, but even so, in cold weather a lot of condensation will take place. This is bad enough in itself, since water is not noted for its lubrication qualities in an engine, but even worse, that water dissolves any nitrates formed during the combustion process. If my memory of chemistry serves me right, that leaves you with a mixture of Nitric (HNO3) and Nitrous (HNO2) acid circulating round your engine! So not only do you suffer a high rate of wear at start-up and when the engine is cold, you suffer a high rate of subsequent corrosion during normal running or even when stationary.
The point I'm trying to make is that the optimum time for changing oil ought to be related to a number of factors, of which distance travelled is probably one of the least important in most cases. Here is my selection in rough order of importance:

1. Number of cold starts (more condensation in a cold engine)
2. Ambient temperature (how long before warm enough to stop serious condensation)
3. Effectiveness of crank case scavenging (more of that anon)
4. State of wear of the engine (piston blow-by multiplies the problem)
5. Accuracy of carburation during warm-up period (extra gook produced)
6. Distance travelled (well, lets get that one out of the way)

I really doubt that anything any of us say is going to change your mind about how often to change your oil. However, here are a few things to think about, perhaps others may find it interesting:

• 3000 mile oil changes were common when large amounts of byproducts of the combustion process contaminated the oil. There are still byproducts being produced in engines, but the factor by which they have been reduced in the past few decades is exponential. There is a reason they are called LEVs and ULEVs. Less out the tailpipe, and less into the oil.
• Those older vehicles had 4 quart sumps most of the time. Your 8 quart sump can hold twice as many contaminants in suspension, while having oil that is exactly the same in terms of being clean or dirty. That change alone would support doubling the oil change interval. On large stationary heavy duty engines, doubling the sump capacity is standard practice to double the oil change intervals. It is simple math.
• Your car bible article is dated by the reference to carburetors. It must be the Old Testament. It is over thirty years out of date. Oil has changed in that time.
• Oil is a non-renewable resource. How can you consume so much and not consider your impact on planet earth? 3000 is five times as often as 15,000. Five times the recommended consumption, when translated to fuel consumption, would be the equivalent of driving a vehicle that gets 3 mpg. Does that seem normal?

Anyway, as you said, to each their own. For my part, I think that modern engines and lubricants are hugely different than those from the sixties and early seventies. I understand old school. I changed my oil at 3000 mile intervals back then as well. Now I go 10,000 miles, sometimes 12,000. I hit the time interval before the mileage interval.

Good luck in whatever you decide to do.

[martz]

Vern, JCL thanks for the insight.
I see the point you both are driving at. I may just adhere to both your suggestions of extending my oil changes, maybe to 5k. That still may be a little to soon for you guys who totally believe the protection of Synthetic oils provide today exceeds over 10k .But the thing is I just cannot fathom the idea of driving with the knowledge that my car has had the same oil on it for over 5K and or even close to 10K before changing. I have seen and read about major sludging on BMWs and MB's and other makes out there, and to me logic indicates that sludging is caused by neglected interval oil changes. I do not want to be a statistic on that particular issue. The very main reason I prefer to change my oil at 3K.
Yes dollars add up but it makes me sleep peacefully at night. I do not baby my cars, any chance I get to drive it hard, I totally take advantage of and to me for as long as I know my oil is good and fresh I will continue to drive FLAT OUT when I find the opportunity to so.

EDIT: And to think BMW reccommends oil changes at 15K....YIKES