Changing Transmission Fluid - 2004 X3

[JCL]

Originally Posted by ragingbull

Let's consider that tractor trailer trucks don't have regular oil changes shall we? They simply get an oil analysis every so often and those engines last hundreds and hundreds of thousands of miles.

Well, on highway truck engines all start off with regular oil change intervals, often 12,500 or 15,000 or more miles (my experience is with the yellow ones from Peoria, but other brands are similar). Any variation from those intervals should be done based on a rigorous Scheduled Oil Analysis (SOS) program, or the equivalent program from another manufacturer. That program looks at engine condition, fluid condition, and operating conditions. Any extension of oil change intervals has to be based on that program, it isn't just a case of occasionally getting an SOS sample. That is how we get them to the million mile club. We can see 30,000+ mile change intervals, sure, but the ones who get the best performance out of their heavy duty engines, over the full life cycle, most definitely have a regular oil change; those oil changes just aren't necessarily at the manufacturer's recommended mileage, rather they are condition-based.

As an aside, welcome to the site! (should we call you Jake?)

[PersonaNonGrata]

I just want to say thanks to JCL for his always knowledgeable and professional posts. He is someone you definitely want to listen to.

[nosoule46]

I too want to keep our '05 X3 for a long time. At 57,### miles, I got the front & rear diffs, transfer case and the tranny (auto) fluids changed.

I went to an indy to change all but the tranny. The diffs looked fine but the fluid for the x-fer case was looking bad. I used Redline for the diffs and BMW OE for the transfer case. I got the OE fluid from Bavauto.com- it was like $38.

I convinced my local dealership to do the tranny fluid&fliter. They asked me if I sure like 3 times. I said yes and paid like $350 for the service.

I was told that the trannies for the X3 are pretty good unlike the E46s. However, it comes down to peace of mind vs. the cost.

Good luck.

Originally Posted by bkmcgraw

I recently purchased a pre-owned 2004 X3 with 60K miles on it. Conventional wisdom tells me to change the tranny and differential/transfer case fluids--normally at 30K mile intervals. The BMW tech told me during the Inspection II just completed that I don't need to change these until 100,000 miles. WHAT!!!!????

Synthetic or not these fluids need to be changed, correct? I want to drive this vehicle for several years and this doesn't make any sense. Any advice? Is it imperative I use the synthetic fluids BMW recommends or will conventional do (if I change every 30K miles)?

[Court X3]

change my tranny fluid every 12k miles in my x3. Talking to a tech at BMW dealer and he does the same to his father in laws car.

[JCL]

Originally Posted by Court X3

change my tranny fluid every 12k miles in my x3. Talking to a tech at BMW dealer and he does the same to his father in laws car.

That is a lot of additional maintenance. Do you change all fluid compartments and wear items at eight times the manufacturer's recommendations? 2000 miles on engine oil and filter, or every 7 weeks, whichever comes first? 8000 miles for spark plugs?

[DSAviate]

Yes, JCL is one of my favorites too . . . always worth reading.

I too am planning oil changes for my "new" german tractor ('01 3.0i, 5 spd MT) with 78k.

Understanding the many pros and cons to various interval preferences under various conditions, I'm having a little trouble with the following:

1. How is it that the dark 5w30 at 6000 miles is lubricating ever bit as well as the highly translucent stuff I put in 6 months ago?

2. As the transmission gears, chains, etc. lose metal (and they do erode metal), where do those metal shavings, molecules, etc. go? My E53 has an oil filter for ONLY the engine oil, and I haven't yet located any appropriately sized drain plugs with magnetic tips to help corral these life robbing varmints.

3. Higher loads equal greater wear. Do you try to get your MXX to produce rated hp often? Are you pulling close to the 6,000 lbs limit routinely? The bits of metal fragment roaming around our transmissions, transfer cases, and differentials suspended in "lifetime oil" are taking their toll until they're drained out.

After reading the threads, owner's manual, bentley manual, and research on other sites I'll change out with the following soon with new crush washers everywhere. Would appreciate any feedback as to anyone's previous experiences with these oils in application.

Engine - Lubro-Moly 5w30, considering 5w40 ref. florida temps and frequent towing to capacity.

MT - BMW MTF-LT-3

TC - Lubro-Moly ATF III

Differentials - Lubro-Moly 75w90, considering 75w140 ref. florida temps and frequent towing to capacity.

- M54 Lover

[JCL]

I am going to have to get my tribology textbooks out one day soon. All this lubrication discussion. True lubrication engineers can feel free to correct me on the details below.

Originally Posted by DSAviate

1. How is it that the dark 5w30 at 6000 miles is lubricating ever bit as well as the highly translucent stuff I put in 6 months ago?

Well, it may be counter-intuitive, but the colour of the oil has no bearing on the lubrication quality of the oil. Clear or translucent oil can be broken down and damaged, and dirty oil can be fine. If you change the oil in your diesel engine, it will be black in a couple of minutes. The material providing the colour is small enough not to impact the lubrication quality, until the point at which the viscosity starts to change. Particles large enough to matter for wear impact are taken out by the filter. The oil has several jobs, including lubrication, cooling, etc, but one of the most important is to keep contaminants in suspension. It is probably a bad analogy, but if you dissolve a tsp of salt in a glass of water, the salty water doesn't feel gritty. Same principle. Incidentally, this also relates to why oil sampling doesn't tell you much about the oil, but instead about the compartment it came from. Metallic elements in the oil measured through typical analysis are not damaging the oil, they are simply providing history on what types of metals wore in the engine. The exception to that is TBN/TAN reporting, which does tell you about the depletion of additives and thus when to change your oil, and silicates, which tell you about either dirt or assembly lubes.

Originally Posted by DSAviate

2. As the transmission gears, chains, etc. lose metal (and they do erode metal), where do those metal shavings, molecules, etc. go? My E53 has an oil filter for ONLY the engine oil, and I haven't yet located any appropriately sized drain plugs with magnetic tips to help corral these life robbing varmints.

If they were losing as much metal as you suggest, the transmission would be very noisy very quickly. The small amount of metal that wears is held in suspension by the oil. If the transmission had rough edges and poor machining from the start, then a magnetic plug would help stop those pieces circulating. There aren't a lot of pieces being broken off once the gears are run in. A magnetic plug isn't a bad idea at all, but the engineers who designed the vehicle couldn't justify the pennies it would have cost, essentially because the benefit is less than that tiny cost.

You are comparing sealed compartments like transmissions and diffs with the engine, and they are each very different. The engine has a built in source of contamination, namely the combustion process. It generally has a filter because it needs one (not all engines do, it depends on the design). A design engineer can pressure lube a transmission and then add a filter to the circuit, but that isn't worth doing in an automotive application because the gears will last long enough without that level of sophistication and cost.

Originally Posted by DSAviate

3. Higher loads equal greater wear. Do you try to get your MXX to produce rated hp often? Are you pulling close to the 6,000 lbs limit routinely? The bits of metal fragment roaming around our transmissions, transfer cases, and differentials suspended in "lifetime oil" are taking their toll until they're drained out.

Lots of things result in greater wear, but the issue is are you crossing over beyond the safety factor that the engineer designed the system for? It isn't a linear relationship. Higher loads don't directly cause much difference in wear because the loads are well within the design limits for the lubrication, and are usually applied for a portion of the operating cycle of the equipment. Fatigue wear isn't a factor until you get to much higher power outputs, usually. Heat is a big factor, and towing is a good example of loading up a system and creating more heat. If that heat is managed by a well-maintained cooling system, towing in and of itself won't destroy fluids.

It is all an interesting discussion. Many owners wrestle with how often to change fluids, and which oil to use. My opinion, and it is only my opinion, is that the manufacturer's recommendations are pretty reasonable, and if someone wants to change them more frequently then it is a cheap way to feel good about maintenance. More frequently can mean simply doing them 20% more often. Doubling the frequency of planned changes is quite a step, and doing them more often that that seems extreme to me. We have the benefit of very high quality oils these days, and the same for filters. Any of the name brands that meet the manufacturer's spec will do fine. Your vehicle won't know the difference between different oils that meet the same spec. Not following the manufacturer's specs is like playing roulette, but sometimes people win at roulette.

As to your planned fluid changes, absolutely use new crush washers. I don't see why you wouldn't go to a 5-40 for Florida temperatures and towing. I wouldn't use LM, but that is just me. I would use Castrol or Mobil 1. For the diff, I would follow BMW recommendations on viscosity.

[div2]

At this point I'm changing the oil in my 2004 X3 2.5 every 7,500-8,000 miles. The used oil analysis(UOA) results show that the additive package(TBN) is almost totally depleted by 8,000 miles:



Note that I was using Mobil 1 0W-40- a BMW LL-01 oil. At my last oil change I switched to Mobil 1 5W-40 to see if its robust additive package will hold up better.

[bjo]

I'm planning on changing the ATF in the wife's x3 this weekend. 2006 X3 3.0L. I picked up the Castrol Import Multi-Vehicle fluid. It meets all the BMW trans specs:BMW — LA2634, LT71141,Texaco ETL-7045-E, ETL-8027B, Shell M1375.4.

http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp...s_ImportMV.pdf

[bjo]

update. I changed the X3 fluid with Castrol Dexron VI instead of the multiimport. Its been almost 2000miles, shifts are smooth, and no issues. Original fluid was dark after 45k miles.