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  #1  
Old 10-09-2015, 05:36 PM
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Diagnosis help needed - Alternator vs. Voltage Regulator. E53 3.0i '01

I've had recent intermittent problems with the charging system on my 2001 3.0i E53 with ~174k miles, AT, very good condition. I have the original 120A air-cooled Valeo alternator (BMW logo on the label and no service records to indicate service, so I think it's original).

I'm looking for advice or specific diagnosis help to determine whether it is the alternator or just the voltage regulator. I think I've got it narrowed down to one of those two.

Symptoms:
Intermittent charging, steady, good voltage when charging works: 11.x V when engine running but not charging, then jumps to a very steady 13.3-13.4V, independent of RPM, when charging is working. From reading this forum, it sounds as if 14.4V is the charging "spec" as is normal for most cars, but that ~13.5V is actually normal and just fine for these cars. Comments?

Intermittent unfortunately in this case means it works just fine a small fraction of the time, but mostly does not charge. So it's definitely in need of repair, but the fact that it sometimes works "fine" may help in the diagnosis.

There is no middle ground - it's either charging at good voltage or it is not charging at all.

The charging warning light appears to be working just fine, based on voltage measurements at battery terminals and via OBC test 9 (which match eachother). I.e., the warning light comes on when it is not charging, and goes off when it is charging properly.

The battery appears to be just fine - can be charged with a charger and holds 12.x V.

No other problems with the car.

No bad noises in the alternator area.

Belt, pulleys, PS, oil filter housing gasket, etc. are all in good shape, maintained.

Do these symptoms point to the VR vs. the Alternator?

At my 170+k mileage, but no bad noises, should the alternator be replaced anyway?

Is it worth a try to just replace the voltage regulator on this one? I'm a believer in leaving working components alone if possible, but I will have no problems doing the repairs myself.

Thanks
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Last edited by oldskewel; 10-09-2015 at 06:44 PM.
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  #2  
Old 10-09-2015, 06:25 PM
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^Same as trader. I agree they probably just change the minimum parts to get it to pass a bench test and push it out (oh they clean it too lol). I went with a rebuilt. From Oreilly's it came with a lifetime warranty though it did take them 2 alternators to get me a good one.

I've never changed bushes/VR but instead just changed the whole thing. If they last me 10 years and 120,000 miles I'm good with spending the ~$250. Yours might be cheaper as mine was the 180A for the 4.4i.
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  #3  
Old 10-09-2015, 08:21 PM
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Thanks for the replies. Yes, the unknown quality of rebuilds and generally declining quality in many new parts makes me hesitant to dispose of a potentially still good alternator.

Some more data:
I went and confirmed it is a Valeo alternator (on the label) - updated now in the first post.
In preventive maintenance several months ago, I greased the pulley bearings (I think one of cn90's many excellent tutorials) and replaced the OFHG (cn90 again, probably), etc. I checked the alternator bearings for play and noise and feel at the time, and don't remember anything of concern.

I usually get my parts at RMEuropean:
12317551153 12-31-7-551-153 valeo voltage regulator for valeo 90 and 120 alternators. $73.42, 2 year warranty
12317501599 12-31-7-501-599 NEW VALEO Alternator - 120 Amp (Compact) $298.97, 2 year warranty

Good prices (and free 1-2 day shipping to me here in CA), so either option will be OK. Since the Alt comes with a VR, I run the risk of having an extra VR if I buy the VR first and then need the Alt.

So I'm leaning towards giving just the VR a shot. Still deciding though ...
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Last edited by oldskewel; 10-09-2015 at 08:27 PM.
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Old 10-09-2015, 09:48 PM
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You can always bring it in to these people. This way you won't be getting a Wing Wang alternator and won't have to buy a new alternator if the VR doesn't work.

Starters & Generators for Sale - Alternator Repair in San Francisco CA | Rite-Way Electric

I had the alternator to my PORSCHE rebuilt rather than replacing it with an unknown quality alternator.
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Old 10-10-2015, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by upallnight View Post
You can always bring it in to these people. This way you won't be getting a Wing Wang alternator and won't have to buy a new alternator if the VR doesn't work.

Starters & Generators for Sale - Alternator Repair in San Francisco CA | Rite-Way Electric

I had the alternator to my PORSCHE rebuilt rather than replacing it with an unknown quality alternator.
Thanks, that does look interesting.

Did you have your Porsche alternator done by them?

BTW, I've got an alternator from my '85 911 sitting on the shelf in my garage waiting to be rebuilt. When it failed I did not have time to get it done right so I just bought a new one. But I saved the original as a core to get rebuilt properly one day. That was about 15 years ago. ;-)
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Old 10-11-2015, 07:58 AM
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I live in the state of the world champion Blackhawks, so no I didn't ship my alternator to them. I just found a local alternator/starter repair shop and had them rebuild my alternator.
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Old 10-11-2015, 01:33 PM
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Thanks for all the advice. Unfortunately it seems there are no clues as to whether the VR vs. Alternator is the problem. So here's my current plan:

1. Replace the VR in the Valeo 120 Amp alternator, see if that does it.

2. If that does not, I'll look to buy a junk-yard Bosch-rebuilt Bosch alternator on eBay. I'll then be able to take my time to properly get the required bearings, etc. and rebuild my Valeo myself.

I've got many local Pep Boys-type options of rebuilt/lifetime warranty, etc. but I decided against that because even though I can easily swap the failed ones out myself, I did not want the risk of it damaging something else in the car or stranding the car.

Also, BTW, I have direct experience in the past (with my Porsche 911 alternator) with the local parts store free bench test giving completely wrong results - said it was just fine when it was not. So that's why I don't just take the existing one in there for a test.

I'll update this as things progress.
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Old 10-11-2015, 01:52 PM
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The quality of rebuilt alternator at local parts store is just terrible. The rebuilders do a bare bone minimum, sometimes not replacing bearing, VR at all.

You have 2 options:

1. Rebuild it the proper way. If Valeo, DIY for E39 is below, E53 almost the same:
Diy: Valeo alternator rebuild - Bimmerfest - BMW Forums

If you have a Bosch unit, then search bimmerfest E39 for info.

2. Buy NEW.
- Although not formally listed, the Bosch AL0703N fits both M52 and M54 engines.
About $235 at eeuroparts dot com.

- Valeo (12317501599).


Given that rebuilt is so bad and you can get stranded in the middle of nowhere, I'd go for new Valeo. In the big scheme of things, it is not expensive for something that lasts 150K+.

Valeo 12317501599 is about $300 at rmeuropean dot com.
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Old 10-12-2015, 01:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cn90 View Post
The quality of rebuilt alternator at local parts store is just terrible. The rebuilders do a bare bone minimum, sometimes not replacing bearing, VR at all.

You have 2 options:

1. Rebuild it the proper way. If Valeo, DIY for E39 is below, E53 almost the same:
Diy: Valeo alternator rebuild - Bimmerfest - BMW Forums

If you have a Bosch unit, then search bimmerfest E39 for info.

2. Buy NEW.
- Although not formally listed, the Bosch AL0703N fits both M52 and M54 engines.
About $235 at eeuroparts dot com.

- Valeo (12317501599).


Given that rebuilt is so bad and you can get stranded in the middle of nowhere, I'd go for new Valeo. In the big scheme of things, it is not expensive for something that lasts 150K+.

Valeo 12317501599 is about $300 at rmeuropean dot com.
Hi cn90, thanks for replying here. I've pretty much reached the same conclusions you are presenting here.

I have also very carefully read that bimmerfest thread and the related ones over there.

I took the Alt out today and inspected the VR. The VR is definitely the problem - one of the brushes is worn a couple of mm shorter than the other and is barely in contact with its slip ring. That makes sense regarding the works fine vs. does not work at all behavior.

So a new VR is on its way, BUT (!) I notice that the slip ring corresponding to the shorter brush is worn down too. And it looks like it is more black than copper - as if the slip ring is worn out. I have not looked into this extensively yet, but my concern is that the one worn slip ring will eat through the new brush in the new VR and I'll be back in the same position.

Finding replacement slip rings seems to be a research project in itself. Any ideas there? Yes, this is the Valeo 12317501599.

I'd also like to replace the bearings while I'm at it, but they really seem fine, so if I can't get them now, I'll plan to buy them and install them next time "I'm in there." I do need to get this car back on the road soon.

BTW, I'm very impressed with this 170+k mile Valeo alternator. I'm definitely hoping I can keep it going.
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  #10  
Old 10-12-2015, 09:28 AM
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Slip rings usually last until 250K-300K or so.
At 170K, it may appear a bit worn, but you should be fine.
Use emery cloth and smooth it out a bit before you install the new VR.

However, please post a photo of the worn slip ring...

BTW, use only quality VR, there are a lot of junk out there.

On a diff topic, I wonder if one can install the VR in situ (without removing the alternator from the car)?

PS: Please post feedback re VR brand and the final outcome.
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