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  #21  
Old 12-30-2018, 11:05 AM
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no verbiage on the OE asphe. Must be a 'merica thing
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  #22  
Old 12-30-2018, 11:54 AM
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Only three countries on Earth require either planar (flat) mirrors or the moronic phrase that should say instead "this mirror is useful".

Combining the slight convex overall curve that is spherical with the outer edge being also likely spherical just a smaller radius gives you in-effect a bubble mirror with no frame that perfectly blends Into the main reflection.

As you overtake a car in the next lane you will see it "stretch" into view. The line in the mirror makes a perfect reference for safe passing. When the line in the mirror is in the center of the car in the next lane you have 2-3 car lengths between your cars it's a very comfortable buffer.

When the near headlamp makes it past the line I think you have a couple meters so you could fit in a tight spot. I've been meaning to measure but haven't had a chance yet.
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  #23  
Old 12-30-2018, 11:58 AM
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Aspherical Mirrors - Check difference!

In summary the mirrors I will never not have there is no going back. It takes a little bit of cutting plastic to get the 90% cheaper eBay models to work but if you do like me and remove the holder from the car first to assemble you can figure out what you need to do.

I just levered out the whole mirror assembly then swapped over the replacement mirror and popped the assembly back on with the new mirror attached. It takes a fair amount of force. I think I took a video I'll see if I can find it.

I did make A photo album of the fix:

https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B0SGAfJVYJqgUUL
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  #24  
Old 12-30-2018, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by andrewwynn View Post
That's a USA moronic thing most of the sane world didn't fall into that legalistic lawyer wording.
Actually it is the Federal Motor Vehicle safety standards that requires the safety warning on mirrors. It is also a requirement in several other countries.
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  #25  
Old 12-30-2018, 08:05 PM
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When I researched getting these mirrors what I found indication there were 3 countries with the moronic requirement. So maybe 5-8% of Earth's population is too stupid to understand how a mirror works the other 92-95% can figure it out without the notice.


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  #26  
Old 12-30-2018, 08:40 PM
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When I researched getting these mirrors what I found indication there were 3 countries with the moronic requirement. So maybe 5-8% of Earth's population is too stupid to understand how a mirror works the other 92-95% can figure it out without the notice.


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It is a requirement in US, Canada, Nepal, India and Saudi Arabia.

I won't guess at the percent that have found it worthwhile. My guess is there was research and history that proved it is beneficial or it would be gone by now.
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  #27  
Old 12-30-2018, 08:47 PM
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Beg to differ it's entirely due to risk of lawsuits and CYA mentality. Nobody reads the notice those that do don't know why it's there and really don't know why it's not on the driver's side. It's clearly just so an idiot that crosses into another lane hits a car can't say that he thought the car was farther away and blame the car maker. It doesn't serve a helpful purpose from a driving safety or the other 190 countries would follow suit. One more bit of red tape that doesn't help the situation as a whole.
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  #28  
Old 12-31-2018, 08:11 PM
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Beg to differ it's entirely due to risk of lawsuits and CYA mentality. Nobody reads the notice those that do don't know why it's there and really don't know why it's not on the driver's side. It's clearly just so an idiot that crosses into another lane hits a car can't say that he thought the car was farther away and blame the car maker. It doesn't serve a helpful purpose from a driving safety or the other 190 countries would follow suit. One more bit of red tape that doesn't help the situation as a whole.
As mentioned the regulation was established by the Federal Motor vehicle standards org. not related to any concern by MFGs of lawsuits. It serves as a reminder not a CYA.

FYI, there are 201 countries that are at least partially recognized by the United Nations, the conclusion of any majority is not an indication of right or wrong and assumptions do not transfer to facts.
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  #29  
Old 01-01-2019, 03:14 AM
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The reality that I conclude from the fact that the majority of drivers on Earth get by just fine without the moronic label is the is no legitimate claim for it's existence.

In addition using panoramic mirrors for a year after 35 years of not using them it only took one drive to realize they are infinitely more useful and incredibly safer in spite of the fact they don't have because there is no need for the moronic label.

Fact: the panoramic mirror is incredibly safer than the required by ignorant law flat mirrors on the driver's side. Go government at making things worse as usual.

My claim is 1) the notice on the convex mirror is completely unnecessary and is entirely based on ignorance. (Mostly the assumption which is likely true that the average person is too ignorant to judge distance in a convex mirror) and 2) most likely some "they" decided that when convex mirrors are used they must have the label because they can't trust the average person to get how a convex mirror works and 3) the benefits of a convex mirror especially one that has a variable radius to act as a bubble mirror greatly greatly outweighs ANY advantage of 3d vision through a planar mirror, in fact with the reference line on my panoramic mirrors, I have a distance reference for a car in the lane next to me that is 10 or 100x more reliable than stereoscopic vision: : when the near headlight is inside of the reference line on my mirror of the car behind me, it is 100% of the time behind me and it's safe for me to cross into that lane, there's no such safety factors with either the near useless planar mirror on the driver's side nor the "objects appear moronic" on the passenger side.

I kinda lost track of what exactly the debate was here. Were you trying to defend there is a valuable point to have the "label for uneducated people" or that "they" are correct to have a law restricting the use of 21st century mirrors over the 18th century tech that is currently the asinine requirement? My argument is that both are bad not required and in the long run do the opposite of what the law intended (the current law makes cars less safe by eliminating the use of safer mirrors that will absolutely residuce accidents.

I understand the concept for why in 1950 "they" decided it would be a good idea to mark mirrors not planar (because they were different and new) but that concept simply should be part of driving school curriculum. It would be perfectly acceptable to me to have a non-moronic label on a convex mirror such as "c o n v e x" or "p a n o r a m I c" across the bottom so the driver that switches between cars can be reminded of the angle of view, and not "dumb down" the label to the lowest possible IQ of likely driver.

It's like the asinine shift lock interface that makes it impossible to restart a stalled E53 in the middle of an intersection while coasting. Of the 20 or 30 cars I've driven only the E53 has a non intuitive restart procedure that prevented me from a simple shift to neutral, turn key from on to start. Every other car I've driven will let me go from on to start when in neutral coasting. What level of "dumb it down" was required to eliminate the most basic and critically important function from the basic user interface of a car (restart after a stall without stopping)!?

All because a bunch of people couldn't tell the difference between the gas and brake and slammed on the gas thinking it was the brake and claiming it was the engine computer not their own mistake. Pretty amazing that once the interlock was introduced suddenly no more cars had "unintended acceleration" because drivers now must have their foot on the brake to take a car out of gear.

That is a very ok safety feature until it's not (putting me in harms way because I've just stalled in cross traffic and now must stop the car and put the brakes on before I can attempt to restart the car).

The mirror situation is very similar: in an effort to make cars safer they don't. The driving world would have done better to teach me drivers what a convex mirror is, allow cars to have convex mirrors on either side or even require panoramic mirrors on both sides. Then you could put a sticker retrofitted into old shitty mirrors at the next safety inspection.

"This mirror is shitty you can't see cars in your blind spot, good luck with that" or the politically correct version: "this mirror has a 30 blind spot".

My original mirrors had about a 40 and 20 blind spot now the have about -15 and -10 blind spot (the angle of view shows 10 to 15 overlap into what used to be a blind spot: I can now see the entire hood of an overtaking car before I can't see him in my panoramic mirrors).

Don't take offense at my strong opinions "asinine labels" you didn't invent the label best of my knowledge. It's my opinion everyone is free to have their own. Clearly "they" think it's quite important to have made it law. I think it was pretty dumb waste of time and money that could have gone to better use, because it's entirely redundant from a thinking, educated persons frame of reference: it's common knowledge that the perception of things get smaller and farther away in a convex mirror I taught myself that lesson when I was 4 or 5 looking at a reflection in my spoon while eating cereal.

If 60-70% of 7 billion people don't need the notice the rest of us also clearly don't need the notice.

If there is some study that shows otherwise that fewer crashes happen due to the warning label on mirrors and that that ALSO is a better improvement over how many MORE crashes are prevented from mirrors absent of any blind spot I would be very interested in seeing such and If that is the case the other countries should follow suit and require a life saving safety feature that costs nearly nothing to add to a car.
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  #30  
Old 01-01-2019, 05:38 PM
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No intention to debate. You have been clear that it is your opinion that the reminder is unnecessary and governmental overstepping.

I'm Just fact checking. As an example, the safety reminder started in 1971 for 1972 vehicles. The reason is that convex mirrors compress the image. We naturally judge distance by the size of the object so it is easy to resort to our 'programmed' way of calculating distance, especially in an emergency situation. It was deemed important to remind drivers that in the case of side mirrors the natural default calculation of our minds does not apply.

Convex mirrors can usually be adjusted to reduce the blind spot to a safe level if the mirrors are adjusted out to the point that to see the side of the vehicle it is necessary to lean significantly in that direction. I changed to European style mirrors many years ago so I can see the side of the vehicle in the mirrors and have no blind spot in a normal driving position.

In normal circumstances I use the rearview mirror, changing lanes when I can see the entire front end of the car in the passenger side lane.
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Last edited by bcredliner; 01-01-2019 at 05:47 PM.
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