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  #91  
Old 03-15-2016, 11:34 PM
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Originally Posted by upallnight View Post
This Dodge Journey is only 3 year old and under 32,000 miles so it still have the balance of the factory warranty and it $1,000 under $17,000. It is also a one owner vehicle.



3C4PDCDG6DT588961 | 2013 Dodge Journey Crew for sale in Chicago, IL

But then you're stuck with a Dodge. And who the hell would want that?


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  #92  
Old 03-16-2016, 09:35 AM
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And that 3 year old Dodge still has around 10 more years of sliding down the value slope.

New vehicles take 10 to 15 yrs to reach an age where, if maintained correctly, the depreciation stops.

Sure, the Dodge will not be needing the costly maintenance/repairs of a 13yr old E53 (cost seen by owner (has to open wallet to keep it running properly)), but the owner has the "unseen" cost that is not realized until it's time to sell/trade.

This is what makes WELL MAINTAINED BMWs near the bottom of the curve so appealing, maintenance/repair costs going forward are into an asset that maintains value (and driving something that's actually a pleasure to operate).

It all comes down to what the owner wants, see the money going into vehicle during ownership (E53), or ride the slope and get the loss at the end (Dodge).
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  #93  
Old 03-16-2016, 12:13 PM
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But then you're stuck with a Dodge. And who the hell would want that?


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Plenty of Mopar fans out there. My dad was a Mopar mechanic.

My first car was a Dodge. Got me through 4 years of College. First car that I brought with my own money was a 1970 Plymouth Cuda 340 with a 6 pack. Wish I kept that car. Could have probably sold it for a lot more than a new E53.
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  #94  
Old 03-16-2016, 02:32 PM
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I've been a Dodge fan for years, bought a few Vipers.

As for the rest of the modern Dodge fleet? I pass.

Worth noting, when I was researching the purchase of my first Viper, I found it interesting that Chrysler Corp and dealers got more profit per unit on a $30,000 Caravan then they saw on a $70,000 Viper. The Viper was built as a Halo vehicle for the brand (car buyers come in to look at the Viper, then test drive other Dodge products), loved the "bang for the buck" aspect (selling Vipers for around what the cost was to engineer/build).

8 yrs and 100k miles after purchase, I sold that first one ('94 model, showroom queen until fall '95, traded in for a new '97 GTS with 3300 miles) for $9900 less then I paid.
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  #95  
Old 03-16-2016, 06:19 PM
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Classic Mopar, Vipers, and specialty cars like the Hellcat Chargers/Challengers are a different beast. By and large, today's Chrysler/Fiat vehicles are unreliable garbage.

Honestly, unless something changes, I won't be buying an American brand again. Fords are expensive with low quality and flimsy materials, GM covers up deadly defects, and Chrysler/Fiats are unreliable (1 recall per month on the Grand Cherokee a couple years ago). No thanks.


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  #96  
Old 03-17-2016, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by edogg View Post
Classic Mopar, Vipers, and specialty cars like the Hellcat Chargers/Challengers are a different beast. By and large, today's Chrysler/Fiat vehicles are unreliable garbage.

Honestly, unless something changes, I won't be buying an American brand again. Fords are expensive with low quality and flimsy materials, GM covers up deadly defects, and Chrysler/Fiats are unreliable (1 recall per month on the Grand Cherokee a couple years ago). No thanks.


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Even though it's a BMW, most X5 were built in Tennessee. I guess you never had to replace a door handle carrier because of the cheap pot metal design, or a CCV system because it got clogged with sludge, or valve stems seal that is only good for 80,000 miles, or chain guides.

When I sold my Cuda, I could hear the new owner wind the car through the gears as he drove away with a smile on his face.
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Audi Avant donated to Kars for Kids
BMW 525IT Sold
Audi 4000CS Quattro Sold
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  #97  
Old 03-17-2016, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edogg View Post
Classic Mopar, Vipers, and specialty cars like the Hellcat Chargers/Challengers are a different beast. By and large, today's Chrysler/Fiat vehicles are unreliable garbage.

Honestly, unless something changes, I won't be buying an American brand again. Fords are expensive with low quality and flimsy materials, GM covers up deadly defects, and Chrysler/Fiats are unreliable (1 recall per month on the Grand Cherokee a couple years ago). No thanks.


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I don't think a blanket statement about any brand is applicable. Even here with the exact model, year and similar mileage there are huge differences in personal experience.

The reputable organizations that review models and brands very seldom agree on reliability or total cost of ownership. History of poor or great quality of a model or brand can be an indicator of current products but that is often not the case. Manufacturing automation and technology has vastly reduced variations in quality and there are frequent advancements. A conclusion made as recent as 3 months ago will very likely be inaccurate.

My bet is Hellcats and Challengers come off the same assembly line or one using the same automation.
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  #98  
Old 03-17-2016, 03:20 PM
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I don't think a blanket statement about any brand is applicable. Even here with the exact model, year and similar mileage there are huge differences in personal experience.

The reputable organizations that review models and brands very seldom agree on reliability or total cost of ownership. History of poor or great quality of a model or brand can be an indicator of current products but that is often not the case. Manufacturing automation and technology has vastly reduced variations in quality and there are frequent advancements. A conclusion made as recent as 3 months ago will very likely be inaccurate.

My bet is Hellcats and Challengers come off the same assembly line or one using the same automation.
I have to strongly disagree with this. There are brands that are known to be quality and others which are known to be...well...let's just say not so much.

Toyota and Honda are well known for their reliability. They've earned this reputation over decades. Many American brands are known for being unreliable. Mostly due to the 80's and 90's. They're starting to shake that reputation but they haven't proven themselves yet. If someone were to ask for my advice as to a reliable vehicle Toyota and Honda would get my recommendation. Chevy, Chrysler, and Ford...no, not yet.
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  #99  
Old 03-17-2016, 03:40 PM
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I have to strongly disagree with this. There are brands that are known to be quality and others which are known to be...well...let's just say not so much.

Toyota and Honda are well known for their reliability. They've earned this reputation over decades. Many American brands are known for being unreliable. Mostly due to the 80's and 90's. They're starting to shake that reputation but they haven't proven themselves yet. If someone were to ask for my advice as to a reliable vehicle Toyota and Honda would get my recommendation. Chevy, Chrysler, and Ford...no, not yet.
My comment was not a declaration. Key words-----can be an indicator---

What you are saying is American brands have improved since the 90s so if we base our quality judgment on that time period the indicator is not currently valid.
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  #100  
Old 03-17-2016, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by bcredliner View Post
My comment was not a declaration. Key words-----can be an indicator---
"...but that is often not the case."

Key words.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bcredliner View Post
What you are saying is American brands have improved since the 90s so if we base our quality judgment on that time period the indicator is not currently valid.
What I am saying is a manufacturers reputation is an excellent indicator to current model reliability. Is it absolute? Certainly not. But it's probably the best indicator (barring some fundamental change with the manufacturer)
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