Need Help--Electrical/starting problem

[upallnight]

Originally Posted by bcredliner

An update.

Returned from vacation a few days ago and started troubleshooting the re-emerging no start problem. Checked the battery and voltage was fine but nothing was getting to dash, interior lights and it wouldn't crank.

This is a case where I couldn't find the a cause for the particular symptoms I was having and troubleshooting was getting me nowhere. Since the symptoms were closest to a bad ignition switch I replaced the switch. That fixed the problem. So I had a bad battery and a string of bad replacement batteries and a failing ignition switch just to make things more interesting.

FYI- I took the switch apart to see how it works. There is a plastic cylinder with ramps in various locations. There are 3 sets of points on either side of where the cylinder rotates. Depending on the location the ramps close a particular set or sets of points when the cylinder rotates. The points that close send pulses that let everything know what to do. Add to the symptoms that a bad ignition switch can cause the dash lights, radio, tilt wheel etc to do strange things that it can also cause everything to go black---nothing works.

These posters posted at the beginning of this thread that it was probably the ignition switch.

http://www.xoutpost.com/1079836-post4.html

http://www.xoutpost.com/1079847-post5.html

http://www.xoutpost.com/1079874-post6.html

You could have saved yourself a lot of headaches if you just listen to these posters.

[bcredliner]

Originally Posted by upallnight

These posters posted at the beginning of this thread that it was probably the ignition switch.

http://www.xoutpost.com/1079836-post4.html

http://www.xoutpost.com/1079847-post5.html

http://www.xoutpost.com/1079874-post6.html

You could have saved yourself a lot of headaches if you just listen to these posters.

I listen to and greatly appreciate input. Hopefully you are the only person that feels I don't.

Key word is "probably" the ignition switch and the symptoms I had were not the same. There was also the bad batteries confusing the issue. Seems like a good idea to take input from probably to a certainty with troubleshooting.

Sometimes it can be to a fault but I don't buy parts without doing the troubleshooting to verify the cause. It was frustrating but I learned a lot along the way and I passed some of that along, hopefully that will be helpful to others in the future.

I found a youtube video on the test you suggested. In that case when the vanity mirror was turned on strange things happened such as the steering wheel adjusting on it's own----That's just so you feel better that I didn't completely ignore you. My suggestion for a more appropriate post would have been to say something like--glad you got it fixed or post nothing.

[upallnight]

Originally Posted by bcredliner

I listen to and greatly appreciate input. Hopefully you are the only person that feels I don't.

Key word is "probably" the ignition switch and the symptoms I had were not the same. There was also the bad batteries confusing the issue. Seems like a good idea to take input from probably to a certainty with troubleshooting.

Sometimes it can be to a fault but I don't buy parts without doing the troubleshooting to verify the cause. It was frustrating but I learned a lot along the way and I passed some of that along, hopefully that will be helpful to others in the future.

I found a youtube video on the test you suggested. In that case when the vanity mirror was turned on strange things happened such as the steering wheel adjusting on it's own----That's just so you feel better that I didn't ignore you.

Most of the advice that peoples on this forum gives for a problem is based on the symptoms that the poster posted on the forum. We do not have the luxury of physically seeing the car or performing any test. So the term probably is used base on what the poster posted as the symptoms he/she is experiencing.

I know you don't like throwing parts at a problem, but since it was mention by three posters that it is probably the ignition switch, you could have done some additional research on your own about symptoms of a bad ignition switch. One of the best resource is Youtube videos in which other people have submitted solutions to their problem.

For example this Youtube video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sEfZIpE9h8

The ignition switch uses contact points similar to relays and if you are old enough to have been driving a car before the advent of computers in the car there were points in the distributors. When points make contact to allow current to flow to a circuit, there is always a slight arc. Over time the contact surface becomes pitted from the arc. A small file (such as a nail file) can be used to restore the contact surface. An ohm meter would have verified the fix.

Not all test on a component is definitive. For example the electric aux may or may not allow the AC to work if it is bad. A bad aux fan may not allow the compressor to engage in one situation, but in another situation it will allow the compressor to engage, but the AC will not work in stop and go traffic.

I didn't feel that you ignore me or the other posters that pointed you to a solution. You could have avoided 6 additional pages of postings if you either did additional research or just replace the switch at the beginning.

Advice on this forum is free and it is up to you to decide if you want to take it or not.

[bcredliner]

Originally Posted by upallnight

Most of the advice that peoples on this forum gives for a problem is based on the symptoms that the poster posted on the forum. We do not have the luxury of physically seeing the car or performing any test. So the term probably is used base on what the poster posted as the symptoms he/she is experiencing.

I know you don't like throwing parts at a problem, but since it was mention by three posters that it is probably the ignition switch, you could have done some additional research on your own about symptoms of a bad ignition switch. One of the best resource is Youtube videos in which other people have submitted solutions to their problem.

For example this Youtube video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sEfZIpE9h8

The ignition switch uses contact points similar to relays and if you are old enough to have been driving a car before the advent of computers in the car there were points in the distributors. When points make contact to allow current to flow to a circuit, there is always a slight arc. Over time the contact surface becomes pitted from the arc. A small file (such as a nail file) can be used to restore the contact surface. An ohm meter would have verified the fix.

Not all test on a component is definitive. For example the electric aux may or may not allow the AC to work if it is bad. A bad aux fan may not allow the compressor to engage in one situation, but in another situation it will allow the compressor to engage, but the AC will not work in stop and go traffic.

I didn't feel that you ignore me or the other posters that pointed you to a solution. You could have avoided 6 additional pages of postings if you either did additional research or just replace the switch at the beginning.

Advice on this forum is free and it is up to you to decide if you want to take it or not.

I fully understand how the forum works.

Perhaps a long drawn out further explanation will be helpful. After I resolved the problem with the two new batteries that were bad I focused on the ignition switch even though my particular symptoms didn't match up to input or research I did on line. Yes, I did do research and lots of it. I watched the fast talking DIY video on how to test an ignition switch. I didn't have anyone to assist me at the time so I removed the switch and took it apart to see if I could tell if it was bad or fix it. While I could load the video at the same site you posted on how to test the switch, the video on how to fix it would not, and still doesn't.

When I took it apart I learned that there are points (yes, just like the good ol' days that I have mentioned many times that I was around for) that are metal and the ramps to open them that are plastic.

As you know, attempting to repair distributor points can result in an engine that has been running poorly to one that won't run at all. In this case, because of how hard the contacts are to get to, because I couldn't see the contact surfaces well enough to determine their condition, because of how close there are together and it was more likely the plastic ramps on the cylinder were worn than the points pitted, I decided purchasing the new switch was the easiest way to fix the problem or eliminate the switch as the cause. Besides, I was getting cranky because I couldn't drive my X5.

Before I made the purchase at the dealer, I asked a great tech I know there for his input. He said 90% of the time no crank or no start problems when the battery is good and there are other connected symptoms, the problem is the ignition switch.

I agree that all testing is not definitive, however, as you know, there is most often a logical order of tests--a process of elimination the leads to the cause of the problem. Sometimes I also think I overdo the troubleshooting or the importance and then I think of all $$$ I have saved over the years even when the probability of the cause was 90%. I learned to troubleshoot when I couldn't afford to buy parts that weren't broken. The motivation now is that I have the time, I enjoy troubleshooting and we have other vehicles to drive if my X5 isn't running.

Regarding the early input that the problem was the ignition switch there were also multiple inputs of other causes one of which you contributed as potential alternative cause.

As far as the six pages, there were others with similar problems that were asking questions and you are a recent page or so of these comments that I suggest most think are useless and uncalled for.

Understanding how the forum works, you are certainly aware we don't have to contribute or follow a thread and that it is not constructive to Monday morning quarterback. If it hadn't been the ignition switch my guess is you would not have made a comment such as I should know better than to throw parts at problem to find the cause.

[David.X5]

Glad you figured it out

[deuchant420]

If you still have problems with it not starting it is most likely the IVM which is the integrated power module in the E box. It's easy to replace and costs about $130 on ebay, genuine BMW part. I had all the same problems and replaced all the same stuff, battery, ignition switch, starter. The module loses it's ability to conduct the proper voltage and you will get an intermittent no start where it seems like the battery is dead.

[X53Jay4.8is]

Originally Posted by deuchant420

If you still have problems with it not starting it is most likely the IVM which is the integrated power module in the E box. It's easy to replace and costs about $130 on ebay, genuine BMW part. I had all the same problems and replaced all the same stuff, battery, ignition switch, starter. The module loses it's ability to conduct the proper voltage and you will get an intermittent no start where it seems like the battery is dead.

The OP does not have an X5 with the IVM. His X is a M62 engine vs the N62

[hpy540]

who has rep'aced more than one IVM? do they just gemerally get 1xx,xxx miles out of them?