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  #11  
Old 10-02-2018, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Joshdub View Post
Solid work. It's always nice when you can repair something instead of just replacing it. I always feel guilty throwing away good parts because of a simple failure, it's so wasteful.
hear hear! so many times i have said this while putting an old part in the trash.
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2005 X5 3.0i - 71k mi (9.2018) -> 81k (9.19) -> 100k 9.21
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  #12  
Old 11-17-2018, 12:39 PM
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E53 driver's door lock actuator motor repair

Do you recall what size screw you used when tapping to replace drilled out rivets? And would it be possible to through-hole and use a longer screw and nut rather than tap a hole ?

I'm about to pull wife's door actuator to do this repair trying to plan ahead enough I can complete within a day since the door won't latch without the mechanism.

Also I'm planning to do the same brush swap so I don't have to swap the worm gear: the long shaft motors are still only 20mm but these are closer to 30 and the apparent fix is to cut the 20mm just right and use the worm gear to splice in some shaft. Lots less work to swap the brush end of the motor.

The question I have is: which way do the two motors turn when which polarity is applied: neither motor working on wife's door and though I can sleuth out the direction they turn I can't tell which polarity causes that turn.
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Last edited by andrewwynn; 11-17-2018 at 12:44 PM.
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  #13  
Old 11-17-2018, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by andrewwynn View Post
Do you recall what size screw you used when tapping to replace drilled out rivets? And would it be possible to through-hole and use a longer screw and nut rather than tap a hole ?
EDIT - I just came across a note I had made when doing this:
I used a 1/8" Cobalt drill bit (Cobalt alloyed Steel)
And a M4 tap (so of course that means the screws I used were M4). The M4 tap I had was a regular one, and I wanted a blind one so I could tap threads all the way to the bottom of the blind hole. So I used a Dremel cutoff tool to cut the end off my M4 tap, making it a blind tap.
I did similar surgery on the screws, cutting them to the exact length needed to give maximum thread engagement, and also tuning up the ends so you don't lose a thread or two due to a bevel.

The rest of this post is my original response, which is probably still all true.

Pics are probably better than my memory. Metric sizes since that's what my good taps are. And I had a big assortment to choose from, both sizes and lengths. And I ended up trimming length to make them just right. So if you want to prep, the main advice would be to get yourself plenty of options, probably in the M3-M6 range.

Almost certainly (memory limited here) a through hole with longer screw would NOT work, since I would definitely have preferred that option if it were possible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewwynn View Post
I'm about to pull wife's door actuator to do this repair trying to plan ahead enough I can complete within a day since the door won't latch without the mechanism.

Also I'm planning to do the same brush swap so I don't have to swap the worm gear: the long shaft motors are still only 20mm but these are closer to 30 and the apparent fix is to cut the 20mm just right and use the worm gear to splice in some shaft. Lots less work to swap the brush end of the motor.

The question I have is: which way do the two motors turn when which polarity is applied: neither motor working on wife's door and though I can sleuth out the direction they turn I can't tell which polarity causes that turn.
If I had the parts at the time, and thought I could successfully transplant the worm gear, I would have done that, even if it was more work. But yes, the brush-end transplant is still holding up fine, and it should work.

On the polarity, I have no idea now, but here's what I said before on the two motors:
"2 motors, one is Johnson, on left side. One is Mabuchi, on right side (in photos). The motors (not including the shafts) _appear_ (externally, but they are not) identical between those two and also identical to the brand new Mabuchi FC-280PC-22125 (NOT FC-280SA) motors ...

The two motors turn in opposite directions when voltage is applied. The Johnson turns in the same direction as the Mabuchi replacement. So the existing Mabuchi turns in the opposite direction as the new Mabuchi."

So if I knew the polarity of a brand new Mabuchi FC-280PC-22125, that would give the answer. I'll go see if I've got one left (I should) and check.
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Last edited by oldskewel; 01-15-2019 at 01:21 PM.
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  #14  
Old 11-17-2018, 06:23 PM
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Thanks for the help once again. I have to leave town in 48 hours so I have very little backup plan leeway.

Wife's car has bum motors in every one of her actuators. They started going about 150 k miles and show but sure some only lock some only unlock but none do both.

Seeing as it's below freezing a lot and will be for the next 3-4 months in going to saw the "break me please" bump off of the door handle carriers as I fix these actuators.

I have an alternative idea to the drill/tap that I've used on re-worked rivet: if there is enough height I can saw the mushroomed part off and cut a groove and use a snap ring. I doubt there is enough room though.

Also I'm hoping I can get enough motion out of the dead motors to determine CW or CCW so I can determine polarity because if I do swap over the gears I will have to reverse the polarity of one of the motors because I only bought the one direction. (couldn't find the Johnson style)

Did find a great how to for a different model car where they cut just the right amount off the motor shaft and took some of the old motor shaft and combined to make a 30mm shaft (or whatever) from the 20. For the same twist motor I might take that route.
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  #15  
Old 11-17-2018, 09:45 PM
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For the one I used in the x5 DLA repair (China clone of Mabuchi FC-280PC-22125):

Looking at the brushes end with the connector ports up top, so it looks like a face (shaft back-end is the nose, connections at 2 and 10 o'clock, smile thing below, etc.), the connection at 2 o'clock has a red dot next to it. So I'll choose that to be positive.

Now turning the whole motor about a vertical axis 180* to look axis-on at the shaft end, when voltage is applied with the polarity specified above, the shaft spins clockwise.

So that info should safely determine polarity based on my notes of the DLA repair, since this Mabuchi motor clone is the same as the one used in that repair (I bought 4 at the same time there).

However, here comes a warning ... Since I had the stuff out, I did the exact same test on the Mabuchi clones with the 20mm shafts. Supposed to be the exact same motor, just longer shaft, but ... polarity is reversed on those!!! On those, there is no red dot, but when hooking up the same way, it spins CCW.

So, wow, I guess you can't count on anything when getting eBay China clones. They probably figure you'll just swap wires if needed and make it work.

But as I recall, in the DLA there are no wires to swap if your motor happens to be backwards from what you want. The motor plugs into pins in the assembly. So that may end up being an issue.

For me, my motor was flaky but still working well enough to confirm polarity. For you, you should be able to use my info here to figure out exactly how things are supposed to turn, and then see what happens when you put the new motors in. If it's wrong, you'll need to figure out a non-trivial way to swap polarity. Good luck!

Hey, also talking about the cold, etc., out there in WI, my son was out there for a big race today - cross country nationals. Pretty cold. No idea why anyone would choose to have a national level competition in November in Wisconsin, but that's what they did (and do a lot).

And I forgot about the pics I took - here they are, just in case my verbal description is not clear. And I drew arrows on the motor to show that it rotates CW.

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Last edited by oldskewel; 11-17-2018 at 10:15 PM.
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  #16  
Old 01-02-2019, 08:57 PM
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I finally started this repair on wife's X5.

I will make a different thread with a link back to this one as I've found some significant shortcuts.

Mostly that I've only had to drill out one rivet and I think in the future I won't need to do that one.



I used a Dremel to cut the BOTTOM off the rivet that is the center pin of the main inner door release and unlock levers. It's a wide post with a small diameter post for the rivet. It will be a perfect candidate for a drill and tap operation and I was able to leave all the topside washer/spring alone.

The trick that made this possible was cutting the plastic shield so I could leave the latch mechanism alone.

I will use tape over the seam created from cutting the plastic.



Already partly reassembled. I will test plugged into the car. I can't remember if the thing will double lock with the door open (though it might be convinced it's closed when it's latched).

I've determined exactly how the double locking mechanism works and verified that 3 of the 4 doors the double locking motor is working (and the 4th neither the normal or double lock is working!)

One possibility i've been pondering is cutting out the bad motor from the top without any disassembly.

Now that I've taken one apart, I've determined that for the primary lock motor that is actually a possibility.

It's been very helpful to take apart to learn how the double lock works to help troubleshoot situations where the double lock has failed and you can't open the door from the inside.

There is a mechanical override for the double lock on the driver's door but you have to turn the key 90° not 45°

(So if the normal unlock pops up the door button but you can't open from inside indicates the double lock motor is shot). You can unlock with the key turning 90° and it will release the double lock.

One advantage of the swap brushes technique is that the armature wiring determines the spin direction so they should spin the correct direction.

I found a very clean method to transfer the worm gear to the new motor by cutting the 20mm shaft just right, press the gear over the cut shaft and cut a piece of the old again just the right size and it's held together by the gear. Half way through each piece.

The lock motor has a piece of steel on each end to take the axial load but the double lock motor doesn't take much force so it only has that bushing on one side.

A million thanks to @oldskewel for making this DIY to inspire me to do the repair since I need to do FOUR of them it will be a huge cost savings.
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  #17  
Old 01-03-2019, 07:35 AM
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E53 driver's door lock actuator motor repair



Back together with gorilla tape covering the hole from the weather shield cut in half.



I was able to disassemble the lock from the latch after the center pin/rivet was restored. There is a little cutting and prying involved but I need to do this three more times so I was hoping for a shortcut and I found one.

I cut a bevel on the plastic pins to help encourage separation and used one of my construction knives (not utility knife that would snap) like a wood chisel to lift the metal off the plastic pin.

I'll be doing this three more times so I'll take better pictures and have a new DIY recipe including how to use the whole motor if it turns the correct direction. (And how to swap the brushes properly if not)

When I saw prices of $200+ per part and wife's door locks were failing monthly I knew I needed to find a better way! I can't imagine what stealer charges for this repair!
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  #18  
Old 01-03-2019, 01:02 PM
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damn. you guys never fail to impress ! kudos!
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2005 X5 3.0i - 71k mi (9.2018) -> 81k (9.19) -> 100k 9.21
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SOLD : ( 2003 X5 3.0 - 177k mi (9.2018) -> 186k (9.19) -> 205k (9.21)
SOLD : ( 1997 328is Coupe - Hellrot Red
SOLD : ( 1988 528e w/ Bullseye s256 / MS2 Extra / GC Coilovers / Yukon Coils ~ 300+ HP
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  #19  
Old 01-03-2019, 01:11 PM
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I knew before I bought one and then two 16 year old X5 I was going to pull out the stops on DIY repair to keep them on the road.

Haven't done the math recently but last time I did I was at $40/mo repair cost and wife's was at $80. (she needed CV axles early on).
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  #20  
Old 01-04-2019, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Russianblue View Post
damn. you guys never fail to impress ! kudos!


Русский синий. Maybe put in your signature
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