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  #21  
Old 11-01-2017, 12:03 AM
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From underneath the car try using a sledge hammer on the inner side of the rim with a block of wood to protect the rim. Rotate the wheel a quarter turn and do it again. After a couple rotations you might be able to break it loose.
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  #22  
Old 11-01-2017, 12:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewwynn View Post
https://m.harborfreight.com/3-jaw-pi...ller-4876.html

This is the idea of what I've been describing. There is a little ridge inside the center of the wheel where this tool can grab.

You should be able to see the mushroomed end of the hub. Might it be possible to get a tool in to cut off that mushroomed hub, hopeful on a drill so a motor can be used?

What style wheels do you have?

I just realized another way or two you can use to get this sucker off:

Especially if you are replacing rotors:

If you put the largest T nut you can find into a piece of plywood and put that between the spokes and a long bolt that will press on the rotor. Make 3 of the jigs and tighten those bolts until it pops off. You can put a couple T nuts in each board to increase the force. Hopefully you can find a 1/2" T nut. If you have 5 spoke wheels like me, I would put two jigs with 1 T nut on one side of the wheel and one jig with 2 T nuts on the other side so there is a balance of force.

You can generate at least 2-3000# of force this way. Spray some pb blaster or liquid wrench into the hub as well. You can make one jig for each spoke to apply even pressure and avoid damage to the rim. Hopefully you already are planning to replace the rotor as this method will damage the router

Grease the bolts through the T nuts! Count the turns eg: 1 full turn of bolt going clockwise. Keep a couple lugs loose to catch the wheel lest it knock you across the room when it finally pops off.

The key ingredient to this solution is you are not putting force on the bearing.

Last ditch effort (destructive to rim):

1) confirm you can turn the wheel with lugs out

2) line up lugs with hub

3) tap a larger size thread into the wheel say 16mm thread (fine pitch)

4) turn wheel half way between lug holes.

5) taper the ends of the new 16mm bolts (important step)

6) use at least 3 bolts and slowly take turns turning them in.

7) stand aside as this method no lug bolt to catch the wheel when it pops off.

Technically if you can find just the right size tap, it won't even make the lug holes bigger and will be non destructive to the wheel!

I can try to estimate the ideal size tap based on 14mm lug bolt.

My thread reference app shows 0.6693" loose fit for 14mm bolt so that should be very close to the size of the hole in the wheel. 0.63 normal fit.

So I was off a bit on the bolt size needed but an M18-1.0 fine pitch is matched to a 0.6693" hole for tap.

You would want to use a bottom tap since you will only have 2-3 mm room to work with past the bottom of the hole.

Aluminum rim will make for relatively easy tap. As mentioned you wouldn't really be enlarging the hole much I think you may have enough left the lug bolts will still hold and the wheel would survive.

This method could easily apply more than the weight of the x5 on the wheel. It will come off without a doubt. Taper the bolts! Mushroom the bolt you won't get it out! (Don't ask how I know this!)
The wood and nut bolts sounds promising aka simple at least

I may try that first. Im so tired right now I can barely move so I think I'm going to sleep on this one for the night.

If I wasn't worried about damaging the new wheel bearing I had just put on and was willing to risk damaging the wheel mr case backhoe would of removed the offending wheel already....

But for now its sleep time. Thanks everyone for the ideas and tips and maybe I can use some tomorrow and get the wheel off.
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  #23  
Old 11-01-2017, 12:24 AM
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You don't want to push on the rim directly like this, you'll end up damaging the bearing. The hydraulic gear puller I just noticed you may be able to flip the jaws outward to grab the inside of the wheel hub. I'm thinking the easier solution at this point will be the threading of the wheel to 18mm size if you can turn the wheel enough with lug bolts out to push against the bearing hub. If you can't you could put a 14-1.5 set screw into the hub to press on with the 18mm bolt.

The solution mentioned in my last post will put the force in the best place to not damage the hub, bearing or wheel. I would have to take a measurement on the lug bolt and tap to make sure there is enough left of the shoulder but with only 100 ft·lb of torque I'm pretty confident the wheel will survive the process.


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  #24  
Old 11-01-2017, 12:46 AM
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Wheel stuck on the X5

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowz;
The wood and nut bolts sounds promising aka simple at least

I may try that first. Im so tired right now I can barely move so I think I'm going to sleep on this one for the night.

If I wasn't worried about damaging the new wheel bearing I had just put on and was willing to risk damaging the wheel mr case backhoe would of removed the offending wheel already....

But for now its sleep time. Thanks everyone for the ideas and tips and maybe I can use some tomorrow and get the wheel off.

Beauty of the wood/T nut solution: easy to get parts. Trade off is stamped parts and only course thread. Stack a couple layers of plywood for strength and definitely use two T nuts on the side of the wheel with one jig so you can apply equally force on each side.

You can also pre-load force with this jig and hit with a hammer to knock it off. Pb blast will help not because of rust just acting as lubrication to help squeeze the mushroom out of the wheel hub.

You could generate more force with 1/4" plate tapped to 1/2-20 and wrap the plate with duct tape to protect the spokes. You may find a better place to hook the plywood to keep it from sliding away from center.

This method will not apply half the force as the threaded wheel and much farther from the center but has a high probability of success and a lot less work than threading the rim.

If you can even get 1mm movement you can get a shim/wedge/chisel between the wheel and bearing hub if your spokes are open enough. Maybe a flat bar even.

I've solved more difficult problems this is 7/10 difficulty you will get the wheel off.
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Last edited by andrewwynn; 11-02-2017 at 12:48 AM.
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  #25  
Old 11-01-2017, 05:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewwynn View Post
Beauty of the wood/T nut solution: easy to get parts. Trade off is stamped parts and only course thread. Stack a couple layers of plywood for strength and definitely use two T nuts on the side of the wheel with one jig so you can apply equally force on each side.

You can also pre-load force with this jig and hit with a hammer to knock it off. Pb blast will help not because of rust just acting as lubrication to help squeeze the mushroom out of the wheel hub.

You could generate more force with 1/4" plate tapped to 1/2-20 and wrap the plate with duct tape to protect the spokes. You may find a better place to hook the plywood to keep it from sliding away from center.

This method will not apply half the force as the threaded wheel and much farther from the center but has a high probability of success and a lot less work than threading the rim.

If you can even get 1mm movement you can get a shim/wedge/chisel between the wheel and bearing hub if your spokes are open enough. Maybe a flat bar even.

I've solved more difficult problems this is 7/10 difficulty you will get the wheel off.
Just woke up

The 1mm play is turning it left to right. There is no play in or out. Its firmly against the hub. We tried hammering screw drivers and a pry bar too in between the wheel and the hub. No luck no gap.

I was hoping the slight play would allow the wheel be wiggled off but it wont pull away from the hub at all.

Never seen anything like it. I used lithium grease when I put the wheel on but that isn't help with the removal it seems.

I never should of forced it on and should of fully ground the hub before putting the wheel on so its 100% my fault the problem I'm having. Sucks but I don't have anyone to blame but myself.

I figured it might be a bit hard to remove later but I never dreamed it would be like this.
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  #26  
Old 11-01-2017, 07:46 AM
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Wheel stuck on the X5

You still have bolts in loose correct? So of course can only rotate a bit until the bolts bind. Can you rotate more without the bolts in at all? Theoretically you could rotate 360° if the hub is radially symertrical. You won't need to if the T nut solution works and the 1mm out concept was if the T nut solution will start to move the wheel off you can put a shim in (a 5-in-1 paint tool might be perfect) to wedge in and help it along. I'm quite confident you can use the same concept in reverse you used to install just not sure how many bolts you need to use. Eg if can't find large T nut you can use washers and regular nut you just need to hold the nut behind the board when turning the bolt. Huge benefit in that is you can use bigger bolt and/or fine pitch such as 1/2-20 bolt vs maybe only 3/8.

I think why it's being such a bitch to remove is that the wheel is acting as a spring. Either when using impact action such as dead blow the spokes are taking up the shock and bouncing back with zero forward progress or when. Using the powerful force such as pushing on the tire 2" the tire and rim just move without pushing the hub.

You could likely find a place to use a wedge between spoke and rotor but it won't be as forceful as the Tnut nor as close to center of the hub.

I would definitely try the bolt through plywood against the rotor next. Very high probability of success and least effort.
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Last edited by andrewwynn; 11-01-2017 at 08:02 AM.
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  #27  
Old 11-01-2017, 08:54 AM
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No the rotating 1mm is with all the bolts completely removed.

That's what is strange.
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  #28  
Old 11-01-2017, 11:44 AM
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Wow! Best of luck! Do post the solution!
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  #29  
Old 11-01-2017, 03:07 PM
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Wheel stuck on the X5

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowz;
No the rotating 1mm is with all the bolts completely removed.

That's what is strange.


Not that strange just means the hub and wheel aren't round. It takes something like 30-50,000 psi to deform aluminum alloy and double to triple that for steel so not much out-of-round needed to bind.
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  #30  
Old 11-01-2017, 08:57 PM
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Wheel stuck on the X5

I just realized better then wood/Tnut and much stronger. Uni-strut. It's square metal beam with locking square spring nuts. I use on my roof for a universal roof rack. Can get at home Depot. You could also use just the square nut on the back of the plywood if you chisel a little dent it will hold and you will have a stronger solution but 1/2-13 vs 1/2-20.


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