2001 X5 E53 Window Motor Bad - Stuck Down

[andrewwynn]

Silly question but is the passenger window lock out engaged? (So only driver switch set to work).

If the regulator is the problem I would expect you will hear the motor and with the switch depending how they are wired it's possible they can be in series where one bad contact will affect both sides (but check for the lock-out switch I bump mine on almost every day).

Did you have wearing regulator symptoms (slow binding window) before it stopped going up?


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[oldskewel]

Originally Posted by Danno54

Thanks for the responses.

I did initially suspect a bad regulator but if it was a bad regulator wouldn't the lights dim and the motor grunt when I operate the switch in the up position? As if the motor is trying but the window mechanism is binding? If it were the switch wouldn't one of the two switches still work? What are the odds that both the driver side switch and passenger side switch both went bad? In any case I guess there is no way to get that sucker out when the window is stuck all the way down other than cutting the cable. Is that correct? Maybe I'll take the connector off the motor and see if I can put 12V directly to it.

Yes, there is ALWAYS another way.

Applying 12V directly to the motor will hopefully work, and will be a useful troubleshooting step as well. Applying 12V one way will send the window down (I know, already pegged); reversing polarity should try to send it up, while also bypassing all other items.

BTW - AndrewWynn's comment about polarity, etc., saying that if current flows one way, etc. is exactly how I think about this situation. You'll find out when you take it apart, but it seems almost impossible that the motor could be the cause of this, at a basic physics level.

2 switches failing at the same time is very unlikely, but could it be that one failed and was not noticed for a while until the second one finally failed?

Yes, some of this data doesn't make sense now, but I expect it will all make sense when you're done. I agree with your doubts about the regulator, but also (having repaired all 4 regulators on my x5 in the 3 years since I've had it) believe what the others are saying.

If the regulator has failed (most likely the regulator clip / "slider" piece of stamped steel + hard plastic that connects the cable to the "window clips" that connect to the glass), applying upward voltage should make things hum + bind, so you'll then need to help it move by wiggling things, pulling up on the glass, etc.

Good luck.

[oldskewel]

Originally Posted by andrewwynn

Silly question but is the passenger window lock out engaged? (So only driver switch set to work).

If the regulator is the problem I would expect you will hear the motor and with the switch depending how they are wired it's possible they can be in series where one bad contact will affect both sides (but check for the lock-out switch I bump mine on almost every day).

Did you have wearing regulator symptoms (slow binding window) before it stopped going up?

Great idea there. My money is still on the regulator.

But this suggests maybe some safety feature is malfunctioning - isn't there something in these cars that is supposed to stop the window from pinching an arm or head in the window when rolling it up? That would explain good behavior going down, but completely dead going up. If the sensor or processing for that feature has malfunctioned ...

Just an idea to keep in mind while figuring things out ...

[Danno54]

It didn't sink in right away but andrewwynn made a good point about the motor and reverse polarity. If it works in one direction then it should work in the other direction too. Makes sense now.

KMM111, good point also about not knowing whether the passenger switch was in working order. I didn't know because I don't have passengers often. I guess I assumed it was working because it didn't get much use.

In any case I applied 12 volts directly to the motor and both the motor and regulator are in good working order. I do indeed need a new switch... maybe both. Is it possible that if the drivers master switch fails the passenger switch will also stop working? I think I'll take care of the driver switch first. Does that make the most sense?

Thanks to everyone for the help.

Dan

[Danno54]

Good point about the child safety feature oldskewel. Yet another thing to consider.

[kmm111]

I learned a long time ago, when it comes to vehicle electronics, everything is possible. It is possible the master switch could have failed in such a way as to disable both window controls. Do the other windows work at their switches? Don’t hold me to it but is it possible a back door window switch will plug into the passenger front window plug? If yes & it still doesn’t work you’ll know the answer.

Originally Posted by Danno54

It didn't sink in right away but andrewwynn made a good point about the motor and reverse polarity. If it works in one direction then it should work in the other direction too. Makes sense now.

KMM111, good point also about not knowing whether the passenger switch was in working order. I didn't know because I don't have passengers often. I guess I assumed it was working because it didn't get much use.

In any case I applied 12 volts directly to the motor and both the motor and regulator are in good working order. I do indeed need a new switch... maybe both. Is it possible that if the drivers master switch fails the passenger switch will also stop working? I think I'll take care of the driver switch first. Does that make the most sense?

Thanks to everyone for the help.

Dan

[andrewwynn]

It is also possible that the up limit switch is failed open. (or the relay used to power up vs down). Id need to see a schematic to know for sure.

Do you hear the click of the relay when you press up? If yes, then it's likely the relay or limit switch that is the fault

[Danno54]

Originally Posted by andrewwynn

It is also possible that the up limit switch is failed open. (or the relay used to power up vs down). Id need to see a schematic to know for sure.

Do you hear the click of the relay when you press up? If yes, then it's likely the relay or limit switch that is the fault

Yes, I was wondering if it could be a relay too. At this point it sure seems like a bad relay would be the suspect. Nothing happens when either front switch is operated in the up position ... no click, sound or dimming of lights at all. All other switches and windows work properly. I even put all the other windows down and tried the thing where you put the key in the drivers door and hold it in the lock position. All windows go up except the front passenger. I dismantled both front switches and cleaned the switch membranes with contact cleaner and reassembled. No difference. There is a substantial amount of circuitry in the switches. I would bet the relay is integral to one of the front switches.

[andrewwynn]

No click means the relay is broken or not getting power (switch broken). The switches may be wired in series so that if driver master switch is broken it can interfere with operation.

I would suspect the relay. Measure voltage at the control pin of the relay. I've not looked into but it may be a combined part for up/down so operate the switch down to find the click of the relay.

My prime suspect is now the primary side of the relay. It's getting voltage but not picking up.

If you operate the up switch and voltage goes to "12" on the relay control pin then I've am correct it's the relay.

If you don't get voltage on the relay control pin then it's switch or wiring.

You can measure voltage coming out of the switch as well to determine if the switch is working.

The limit switch seems to be down steam of the power relay (since can still hear relay click when window is at the limit but motor doesn't run).


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[andrewwynn]

The relay may be internal to the switch. Each door has two relays one up one down.


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